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11 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:I don’t think his absence from the final roster has been due to a lack of athletic ability at the running back position, but more so because of the lack of the technical nuances that comes with the complete understanding of the game.

It’s been 2 years. Football is a lot of detail and nuance, but it’s not that difficult. You’d have to be kinda of an idiot to not be able to learn the game in 2 years. You could literally teach yourself something like advanced physics in much less than two years, so if someone can’t learn football in that amount of time, maybe they shouldn’t be playing.

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[This is an automated response]

 

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A single name if far too vague to post as a title and provides little insight into what specifically the post is talking about.The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

Thank you.

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12 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

We're in a very small minority here that would like to see CWade on the 53.  I hope he gets enough looks in preseason so we can see the progress he's made in the last two years under the Bills coaching staff.  Unfortunately, it's a numbers game at RB and KR, where the Bills have invested draft picks and FA money, so CWade is probably the odd man out.  If he is waived at the end of TC, I hope someone picks him up, as opposed to him being indentured to the Bills for a third year under the IPP.

?? Investing FA  money on an inferior player is "penny wise and pound foolish". 

12 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

 

I would not be opposed to trading Singletary or Moss to make room for Wade. Wade is just a better more fluid runner than they are. The only reason why Singletary or Moss is ahead of Wade right now is because they have played the game their entire lives and know everything there is to being a running back. 

Don't be to sure about that "they know everything".   There was an article about singletary's work this offseason and he was trying to change his running style to make sharper cuts down field when running a sweep/off tackle play and several other basics that have been keeping his run down in yardage.

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

The problem is that if he can't block, or he can't run all the receiving routes, it becomes very clear to the rest of the league very quickly.  Then he's something of a liability on the field, because the defense knows there's only a limited number of ways the Bills get him the ball, and the rest of the time he's a decoy.  That's a big advantage for the defense, and it's a waste of a roster spot just to have a threat like that on the field for 3-4 plays a game.  

 

He MUST be able to play the position, all aspects of the position, or he MUST be able to be the kick returner.   Or both.   It's the only way he can make the 53.  

Let us realize that he has a lot of experience playing an open field tackling game like football,, AND 2+ years of NFL coaching.  Somehow people get ga ga over an American who didn't play 4 years of HS football (maybe was a basketball player) and had one year of HS football & one year of college football and came out early.  NO PROBLEM with that.??   ................ ..............I question whether a running back has to "all the receiving routes".    Gheesh!  he is not going to be a #1 or #2 wide out lining up outside the numbers!  A wheel, a screen,  a hitch, a hitch and go  and a simple crossing pattern gives him enough options to be a weapon.

 

Edited by maryland-bills-fan
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12 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

 

It’s not a talent issue keeping Wade off the 53 man roster. It’s an understanding of everything that comes with the game of football. I think he has had enough time to learn most of the nuisances to land himself a spot. Wade is by far the most interesting player for me going into the pre season. He was robbed last year of valuable game experience, this year he will be able to shine. 

 

He may be 4 RB, but he would get some carries during the year. I would give him opportunities on first downs in some situations where he could rip off huge yardage where Singletary can’t. 

If the coaching staff thought he was capable of "huge yardage" on first down, he would be on the 53.  I doubt he will make the roster.

12 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Dude is living off that 30-yard first down run for the Texans in our Wild Card game against them.  ***** him :devil:

Wade is living off the exhibition TD 2 years ago, granted, it's the fans living off it, not as much him.

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59 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

I agree it would be fun to design a few speciality plays that take advantage of his speed. Unfortunately that's not enough to keep a roster spot for. If the NFL is serious about pushing these opportunities for international guys (which would help spread the popularity overseas if a few caught on) then they should let every NFL team activate a guy on game day without him counting against the roster.

That guy with the hoodie sweatshirt usual beat us with a collection of one trick ponies playing their role.

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12 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

 

I would not be opposed to trading Singletary or Moss to make room for Wade. Wade is just a better more fluid runner than they are. The only reason why Singletary or Moss is ahead of Wade right now is because they have played the game their entire lives and know everything there is to being a running back. 

How many times have you seen Wade carry the ball?

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2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:


It’s his style of running. The vision, the speed, it’s fluid, It’s impressive. I don’t even care if he doesn’t know how to block. I’d swing him out wide on 1st downs when we need to rip off huge yards to open us up. 

All of this...against a bunch of guys who never made a 53 man roster. The coaches see him every day in practice and he hasn't been good enough. 

 

Beane uses the roster rules to their full advantage. 

 

Bringing him back for a 3rd year doesn't mean anything in terms of a "plan for him". See Spain, Quinton...

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2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:


Then why bring on Wade in the first place? If you don’t plan on using him, just release him. If I was an OC, I’d love to have a player like Wade on my roster. That’s because I know how to use talent like that. 

You’re going over the edge dude. Check that: you’ve Gone over.

 

Simmer down. You are NOT the player evaluator you think you are.

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  • Chandler#81 changed the title to [Name Only Title] Christian Wade [Mod edited] has a groupie

I'm really interested in the mentality of fans that root for the underdog less talented players over the stars.  Wade is just the recent example but you can go back to fans calling for Reich to play over Kelly. It's not as if the fans are always wrong either. Fred Jackson is case in point where the underdog fan favorite ends up being more productive than several first round picks including Lynch and Spiller.  But in most cases guys like Wade, DaRick Rodgers, and Duke Williams never amount too much.  Is it jealousy that none of us have star athletic ability and we root for these guys? 

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1 hour ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Let us realize that he has a lot of experience playing an open field tackling game like football,, AND 2+ years of NFL coaching.  Somehow people get ga ga over an American who didn't play 4 years of HS football (maybe was a basketball player) and had one year of HS football & one year of college football and came out early.  NO PROBLEM with that.??   ................ ..............I question whether a running back has to "all the receiving routes".    Gheesh!  he is not going to be a #1 or #2 wide out lining up outside the numbers!  A wheel, a screen,  a hitch, a hitch and go  and a simple crossing pattern gives him enough options to be a weapon.

 

Singletary lines up wide.  

 

You can argue all you want.   The fact is that you don't play on offense or on defense unless you do essentially all the things that the position asks of you.   That's why rookies rarely start from day one, even rookies who HAVE played four years of high school and four or five years of college.   They don't because they can't do everything they need to be able to do, and the opponent quickly figures that out.   

 

They're called one-trick ponies for a reason, and there's a reason one-trick ponies don't play in the league.   Ask CJ Spiller.   Spiller couldn't do everything NFL coaches asked him to do, and he played in a national powerhouse program in college.   It simply isn't easy to learn to do all the things that running backs are supposed to do.  

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14 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We say that now, but I’m willing to bet people change there minds after another off season where he actually gets to play in games this year. I understand that Taiwan Jones is a special teamer, but that’s literally all he does. It’s a waste of a roster spot. If Christian Wade has truly worked on being a better blocker, understanding assignments, then he should make the roster this year. He has incredible instincts that we are lacking on this team. Wade finds the end zone. 

Yeah!  Unbelievable how they wasted a roster spot back in the glory days on some dude named Tasker ... 

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3 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:


Then why bring on Wade in the first place? If you don’t plan on using him, just release him. If I was an OC, I’d love to have a player like Wade on my roster. That’s because I know how to use talent like that. 

 

 

WTF? He was released, TWICE.  NOBODY came calling. NOBODY!

 

My guess is he will be released again this year, and once again go unclaimed. He will likely end up on the Bills PS again.

 

Now I really hope he succeeds, with the Bills or elsewhere in the NFL. But if others in the NFL really wanted him, they could get the Bills to trade him when eligible. 

4 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:


It’s his style of running. The vision, the speed, it’s fluid, It’s impressive. I don’t even care if he doesn’t know how to block. I’d swing him out wide on 1st downs when we need to rip off huge yards to open us up. 

 

 

This level of football ignorance is why it's hard for me to respect your opinion.

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3 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:


This is also a fair assessment. My thing is with Wade, is he is a home run threat anytime he touches the ball. If I want to win maximum games, I want players who can score anywhere on the field. For that alone, I would have Wade on the roster. He doesn’t have to start to be of use. He is totally worth a roster spot if he comes in 4 or 5 times a game on 1st downs if he rips of 15+ yards a pass or carry. Just look what he does in the open field vs Indy or Car. Just swing him in space. We have plenty of other players on this team that can be used for blocking or special teams. We haven’t had a home run threat as a RB since Spiller. 

This is it exactly “He is totally worth a roster spot if he comes in 4 or 5 times a game on 1st downs if he rips of 15+ yards a pass or carry.” IF he can do that he will make the team .. hey coach we have this guy and if we give him the ball 5 times he will get us 75 yards .. nah let’s cut him. It is the IF though. He has a chance and the Bills are going to see what they have with him .. no chance last year due to no preaseason .. let it play out. The odds are stacked against him but IF he shows himself as you expect we will all be thrilled but keep in mind the famous quote  from Dandy Don Meredith responding to Howard Costello “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.”

 

I am not expecting a festive Christmas for Wade … but would love to see it if it occurs 

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1 hour ago, TBBills said:

I cannot wait for this experiment to be over... 

 

You guys just irrationally hate this guy and I don’t get it. I honestly hope he plays so well this preseason that he makes the team, just to watch people squirm around. 

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5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

 

You guys just irrationally hate this guy and I don’t get it. I honestly hope he plays so well this preseason that he makes the team, just to watch people squirm around. 

No one hates him... Stop pretending like people seeing he isn't really an NFL player as hate. I love his little interviews he does for Bills. 

 

Stop with your "Everyone hate him" no one hates him... Such a stupid groupie stance to take.

 

We understand you fell in love with one preseason game and will attack anyone trying to tell you your man isn't the worlds best...

 

Hell he might have made the 53 back in the day but the talent we have is still above him right now. This is probably his last chance and he would need to beat out a guy who is a very good ST player...

 

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Bill's fans really do love underdogs too much

 

It's a great story but he has about a 1% chance to make the team

 

He had a few good runs against guys who are bagging groceries.. he had a few carries against 2nd 3rd stringers where he did nothing

 

Eight carries for 84 yards including a 65 yarder.. that means he had 7 carries for 19 yd outside of that .. against backups

 

And he still probably can't block which dabolls not putting you on the field if you can't

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Bill's fans really do love underdogs too much

 

It's a great story but he has about a 1% chance to make the team

 

He had a few good runs against guys who are bagging groceries.. he had a few carries against 2nd 3rd stringers where he did nothing

 

Eight carries for 84 yards including a 65 yarder.. that means he had 7 carries for 19 yd outside of that .. against backups

 

And he still probably can't block which dabolls not putting you on the field if you can't

 

 

Maybe he doesn’t make the team. But I have a really good feeling about this off-season and preseason. I think this is the year he starts flashing enough to warrant consideration. 

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Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

So since people here don’t have any faith in Wade, I will ask this question then. What does he have to do this preseason to earn a roster spot? 

He would have to be a better complete running back then singletary moss and Breida 

 

Breida has the same speed if not faster, and has actual football experience in the NFL

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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

He would have to be a better complete running back then singletary moss and Breida 

 

Breida has the same speed if not faster, and has actual football experience in the NFL

Well Breida is good. I think he’s better than Singletary and Moss. If Wade does earn a roster spot, it will either be Singletary, Moss, or Taiwan’s. If Wade has learned blocking sufficiently, then I hope we try and trade Singletary. 

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6 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Well Breida is good. I think he’s better than Singletary and Moss. If Wade does earn a roster spot, it will either be Singletary, Moss, or Taiwan’s. If Wade has learned blocking sufficiently, then I hope we try and trade Singletary. 

I can tell you it's almost impossible to sufficiently learn an NFL blocking scheme as a running back in two-three seasons .. these guys are prepped from high school and still usually struggle for 2 or 3 years in the pros

 

Running is the easy part for most backs. Blocking is hard work, tedious, bone jarring 

 

There's a lot of running backs even at the division 1 level who can't block for crap

 

 

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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I can tell you it's almost impossible to sufficiently learn an NFL blocking scheme as a running back in two-three seasons .. these guys are prepped from high school and still usually struggle for 2 or 3 years in the pros

 

Running is the easy part for most backs. Blocking is hard work, tedious, bone jarring 

 

There's a lot of running backs even at the division 1 level who can't block for crap

 

 


Which is fine though. We can still utilize Wades open field abilities without having to block most of the time. We managed with Spiller, and Wade doesn’t have to be a featured back for him to contribute a decent amount to this offense. 

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Just now, IronMaidenBills said:


Which is fine though. We can still utilize Wades open field abilities without having to block most of the time. We managed with Spiller, and Wade doesn’t have to be a featured back for him to contribute a decent amount to this offense. 

Yeah because the Spiller selection was technically such a great pic for us 

 

It was not

 

And listen to any of Brian dabolls interviews about his offense, or Zach Moss when he talks about what daboll wants 

 

You don't get on the field in most NFL offenses unless you can block.. protecting the quarterback is the name of the game now in pass protection... 80%-90% of 3rd down backs are in blocking.. it's only a select few like McCaffrey who get to run wild

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26 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So since people here don’t have any faith in Wade, I will ask this question then. What does he have to do this preseason to earn a roster spot? 

 

It’s not that I don’t have faith in him. We just haven’t seen enough to know much more than “he’s fast”.  That one long run was very impressive, but he was basically untouched and had the benefit of a hole that was extremely rare all last season. 

 

What we don’t know is what concerns me. Does he have the recognition and willingness to pick up a 250 lbs blitzing LB? How solid are his hands? Does he fumble? Does he run good routes? How good is he at fielding kicks? Can he help on ST? I don’t think we’ve seen enough to be able to answer “what can’t he do?” The coaches see him all the time, and I think we need to trust their judgement at this point.

 

I would LOVE to have him be the steal of the century, but I can’t have a man-crush on him without seeing a lot more. 

 

 

.

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7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah because the Spiller selection was technically such a great pic for us 

 

It was not

 

And listen to any of Brian dabolls interviews about his offense, or Zach Moss when he talks about what daboll wants 

 

You don't get on the field in most NFL offenses unless you can block.. protecting the quarterback is the name of the game now in pass protection... 80%-90% of 3rd down backs are in blocking.. it's only a select few like McCaffrey who get to run wild


Spiller was good when utilized properly. It was not a good draft pick for where he was taken, but he had talent. That’s fine though, we can let Moss be the featured back that blocks, but Wade can still contribute without blocking. Let him get carries on some 1st downs where he doesn’t necessarily have to block on plays. 

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It’s not that I don’t have faith in him. We just haven’t seen enough to know much more than “he’s fast”.  That one long run was very impressive, but he was basically untouched and had the benefit of a hole that was extremely rare all last season. 

 

What we don’t know is what concerns me. Does he have the recognition and willingness to pick up a 250 lbs blitzing LB? How solid are his hands? Does he fumble? Does he run good routes? How good is he at fieldi8ng kicks? Can he help on ST? I don’t think we’ve seen enough to be able to answer “what can’t he do?” The coaches see him all the time, and I think we need to trust their judgement at this point.

 

I would LOVE to have him be the steal of the century, but I can’t have a man-crush on him without seeing a lot more. 


It’s not just one long run though, he did it against Carolina to on a dump down pass. He ran through 3 defenders. He made a blunder by not using his blockers or otherwise he’d have another TD. He doesn’t have to pick up a blitz if you design a play for him on 1st downs. He probably isn’t going to be a 3 down back, which is fine. He could be a gadget runner that could get us 50 yards a game and it would help us. From all actions I’ve seen, he can catch the ball very well. I’m sure we will find out more this preseason. He’s already ripping up camp. 

Edited by IronMaidenBills
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Just now, IronMaidenBills said:


Spiller was good when utilized properly. It was not a good draft pick for were he was taken, but he had talent. That’s fine though, we can let Moss be the featured back that blocks, but Wade can still contribute without blocking. Let him get carries on some 1st downs where he doesn’t necessarily have to block on plays. 

Spiller was talented that doesn't mean it was a good pick

 

And you get pretty predictable when you start pigeonholing a running back... 

 

If Moss is in when he's blocking. And wades out there and he's running routes, or getting a first down carry... That's pretty predictable

 

And defensive coordinators would absolutely catch on. Wade should have been practicing returning punts or kicks to get a better shot and making a roster

 

 

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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Spiller was talented that doesn't mean it was a good pick

 

And you get pretty predictable when you start pigeonholing a running back... 

 

If Moss is in when he's blocking. And wades out there and he's running routes, or getting a first down carry... That's pretty predictable

 

And defensive coordinators would absolutely catch on. Wade should have been practicing returning punts or kicks to get a better shot and making a roster

 

 


We pigeonhole McKenzie all the time, it doesn’t matter that teams know it’s coming. Same with Wade. They will find ways because they are good in the open field. 

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12 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:


Spiller was good when utilized properly. It was not a good draft pick for where he was taken, but he had talent. That’s fine though, we can let Moss be the featured back that blocks, but Wade can still contribute without blocking. Let him get carries on some 1st downs where he doesn’t necessarily have to block on plays. 


It’s not just one long run though, he did it against Carolina to on a dump down pass. He ran through 3 defenders. He made a blunder by not using his blockers or otherwise he’d have another TD. He doesn’t have to pick up a blitz if you design a play for him on 1st downs. He probably isn’t going to be a 3 down back, which is fine. He could be a gadget runner that could get us 50 yards a game and it would help us. From all actions I’ve seen, he can catch the ball very well. I’m sure we will find out more this preseason. He’s already ripping up camp. 

Roster limitations are very real. He has to be versatile to deserve a spot. We already have McKenzie for a lot of those jet sweeps and gadget runs, and he can also play WR. 

 

Feel free to carry on, but we won’t know anything until they start playing football again. I’m not saying he can’t play, just that we don’t know. 

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5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:


We pigeonhole McKenzie all the time, it doesn’t matter that teams know it’s coming. Same with Wade. They will find ways because they are good in the open field. 

McKenzie lined up at wide receiver and ran routes a lot more than he got end arounds 

 

He ran probably 10- 14 routes a game.. and maybe got 16 End around all year 

 

So teams had to game plan for Mckenzie but he was only getting one carry a game. And he plays special teams

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  • Hapless Bills Fan changed the title to Christian Wade [Mod edited] has a groupie
17 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

He doesn’t have to pick up a blitz if you design a play for him on 1st downs. 

You keep saying this, and it's stupid, to be frank.  If he can't  pass block and you put him in on first down, the defense knows that you aren't going to run 1/3 to 1/4 of your playbook.  That's a big advantage for the defense.  

15 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:


We pigeonhole McKenzie all the time, it doesn’t matter that teams know it’s coming. Same with Wade. They will find ways because they are good in the open field. 

McKenzie can run all the pass routes.  He doesn't have to block.  And he returns punts. 

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2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

You’re going over the edge dude. Check that: you’ve Gone over.

 

Simmer down. You are NOT the player evaluator you think you are.

Agree here wholeheartedly.  

 

Perhaps the mods can create a sandbox virtual environment for @IronMaidenBills and @tylerbillsfan33 as a public service to rest of board and so they can have their "special place" 

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13 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We pigeonhole McKenzie all the time, it doesn’t matter that teams know it’s coming. Same with Wade. They will find ways because they are good in the open field. 

 

Um.......how McKenzie was being used became predictable in 2018 and 2019 until they started asking him to run more routes (slants and crossers) but he was only OK at them.  In 2020, McKenzie's route running did improve - if you look at the route chart of the Miami game week 17 where he played a lot, some of them look like real routes although some are still rounded off.  

But that raised the question "who do you take off the field for McKenzie to go on?"  While Brown was out injured, McKenzie became part of the 4 WR rotation.  When Brown was active, not so much.  The fact that the Bills signed Sanders says that they aren't persuaded McKenzie is ready for more snaps.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You keep saying this, and it's stupid, to be frank.  If he can't  pass block and you put him in on first down, the defense knows that you aren't going to run 1/3 to 1/4 of your playbook.  That's a big advantage for the defense.  

 

Yep.

 

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

McKenzie can run all the pass routes.  He doesn't have to block.  And he returns punts. 

 

In Daboll's scheme, WR are expected to block, period.    He doesn't have to level the guy, but he at least has to have timing and the ability to get in the way.

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3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um.......how McKenzie was being used became predictable in 2018 and 2019 until they started asking him to run more routes (slants and crossers) but he was only OK at them.  In 2020, McKenzie's route running did improve - if you look at the route chart of the Miami game week 17 where he played a lot, some of them look like real routes although some are still rounded off.  

But that raised the question "who do you take off the field for McKenzie to go on?"  While Brown was out injured, McKenzie became part of the 4 WR rotation.  When Brown was active, not so much.  The fact that the Bills signed Sanders says that they aren't persuaded McKenzie is ready for more snaps.

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

In Daboll's scheme, WR are expected to block, period.    He doesn't have to level the guy, but he at least has to have timing and the ability to get in the way.

It's completely different blocking as a wide receiver then pass protection as a running back though 

 

They aren't even in the same class of toughness and technique you need

 

 

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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's completely different blocking as a wide receiver then pass protection as a running back though 

 

They aren't even in the same class of toughness and technique you need

 

 


I doubt Wade would be any worse than Spiller at blocking. 

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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's completely different blocking as a wide receiver then pass protection as a running back though 

 

They aren't even in the same class of toughness and technique you need

 

No argument there at all, I was just responding to a guy who said "McKenzie can run all the pass routes, he doesn't have to block".

 

In Daboll's offense, the WRs gotta block.  And given a choice between a WR who can run routes and block, and a WR who can run routes but can't block, job security goes with the latter.

 

(Which has me wondering WTF the Giants think they're doing signing Kelvin Benjamin to play TE, because with the Bills, he laid down some of the laziest-ass megawhiff blocks I ever saw a WR put on the field, but I guess that's a different thread)

 

In interviews, C Wade has talked about his difficulties learning blocking.

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1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:


I doubt Wade would be any worse than Spiller at blocking. 

 

Based on what? Evidence?

 

I'm guessing Spiller was a better blocker, as he played RB for many years, at various levels.  But  even it you are correct, what does that have to do with this team?  Spiller isn't on it. 

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