NewEra Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: Did u see what KC did to there D after they lost in 2018 to the Pats. They didn't sit back and relax off there success from the previous season. They went out and made the necessary moves to get them to the next level. We should do the same. The players we brought in last off-season were subpar at best and none of them earned there money. Hughes has been in decline since his great yr in 2018 and I expect him to even decline more this coming season. Star is coming off a full yr off who knows what kind of decline we will see from him at the age of 31. Last of all your very silly for thinking I'm silly. Cutting Jerry is a ridiculously STUPID move. Period. It’s not happening. Move on Cutting Star results in a massive dead cap hit. We don’t save anything by cutting him. It’s not happening Edited February 15, 2021 by NewEra 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: It frees up 4.7 mil this yr and even more next yr when u factor in dead money. If Star plays for us this year he cost 7.6 mill in cap. If he gets cut 11.8 mill in dead cap: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 25 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: It frees up 4.7 mil this yr and even more next yr when u factor in dead money. 6 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said: If Star plays for us this year he cost 7.6 mill in cap. If he gets cut 11.8 mill in dead cap: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/ This. I meant it adds another $4.7M on the cap, not saves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, thurst44 said: Large DTs clog up the space that allows QBs to step into their throws, while also taking up an extra defender oft times. It was actually talked about frequently when they signed Star and sorry, but it just irks me that he did what he was supposed to do yet he was savaged here b/c he doesn't get stats, which is true of most players at his position. Shaq was more responsible for guarding the edge, and occasionally rushing the passer--I actually agree that he didn't get his full due when in Buffalo as he was never supposed to be a 10-sack kind of DE. His loss is relevant in their struggles against the run as he was good at contain. Jordan Phillips, maybe you have a point, but he was a different kind of DT. In any case, do you really believe Star was so bad that we should lose 5m in cap space by cutting him? Its not that Star is a bad player I respect Star game immensely. I'm just not sold after a season off that he can just come back and play at the same level as before he opted out. He's gonna have to add back the weight. I heard he lost quite a bit of size during the opt out. Harrison Phillips was great in the last 6 weeks of the season. It took him some time to fully get healthy but I think he's the run stopper where looking for at the 1 tech. There's also a few big run stuffing DTs in the draft and even a few guys in free agency we can get for close to or near vet minimum to back HP up. Why not build around Oliver and Phillips at the tackle spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 31 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: It frees up 4.7 mil this yr and even more next yr when u factor in dead money. The goal is to improve the line and its ability to keep the LB clean and affect the QB, not to "free up" cap money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Since you keep bringing this up, why don't you tell us exactly the moves KC made in the 2019 off season? They traded Dee Ford to SF for a 2nd round pick after his Offside penalty cost them trip to super bowl. They traded a 1st rounder to Seattle for Frank Clark and gave him a huge contract. They signed Alex Okafor for 3 year $18m. Doesn’t look like they did much at DT unless I’m missing something. I’d compare their overhaul to bringing in a Watt and Ngoukae and cutting Addison, Butler and/or Jefferson since nobody’s trading anything for those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: Its not that Star is a bad player I respect Star game immensely. I'm just not sold after a season off that he can just come back and play at the same level as before he opted out. He's gonna have to add back the weight. I heard he lost quite a bit of size during the opt out. This. It would concern me about Star. Did he work out all season and will he be football ready and a contributor to the line. I would guess that trainers stayed in touch with him all season about his regimen for work outs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Since you keep bringing this up, why don't you tell us exactly the moves KC made in the 2019 off season? They traded away Dee Ford and Cut Eric Berry, Steve Nelson, Justin Houston . They added Tyrann Mathieu, Frank Clark, Breshad Breeland and Alex Okafor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 47 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: It frees up 4.7 mil this yr and even more next yr when u factor in dead money. Can you please explain how cutting star saves us money this year? If you’re right, I’m inclined to believe cutting him might make sense. I don’t see how we’d be saving any money at all. It looks to me like we’re losing even MORE money than we would by keeping him. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: They traded away Dee Ford and Cut Eric Berry, Steve Nelson, Justin Houston . They added Tyrann Mathieu, Frank Clark, Breshad Breeland and Alex Okafor It was a significant overhaul of one of the league's worst defenses. The Bills defense was actually pretty good. They had a very poor game against KC.........people want to point to the talent like they need to add 3-4 high quality upgrades to the defense to be able to compete........but the jimmies and joes on both sides of the ball should have done better than they did. It was a meltdown by coaches and players alike. Chiefs now own the real estate in the Bills heads that the Patriots did prior to 2020. That's the bigger obstacle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said: So instead of giving a reasonable rebuttal to what I was saying u rather try to insult and be humerous. There's nothing Madden about what I was saying. I gurantee we cut at least 3 of them. Beane signed these guys with easy outs from there contracts with little to no cap hit when it comes to Jefferson, Addison and Butler. So who are you replacing them with and actually make the team better? You knocked $24 mil off with the 3 listed above, what actual improvement are you going to make with that money? It's doubtful $24 mil is going to improve the line all that much. Your initial post listed 5 players you wanted to cut, one of which Star will cost additional money to cut. I think it's reasonable that two of the three will be cut. With Star coming back the team has one extra D-Line player available, so it's feasible to cut Addison and one of the tackles and just sign a top edge rusher with the $16 mil savings, certainly doable. Anything much beyond that it likely becomes a one for one, cut/sign replacement. You want to cut four and sign two, the math doesn't exactly work out. Sure you could draft a rookie, but counting on him to contribute at the level of any of these guys you're looking to cut is not likely. I believe too that a big issue the Bills had this past season on the D line was do to bringing in a number of new players, then having no off season or per-season for them to work together. Add on top of that with Star's opt out, they didn't have any true replacements on the team for his role. They tried a number of these new guys in that role, none of which worked out very well. They did improve towards year end, but never to the level expected them to play at and to the level they were paid. Now you want to repeat the same thing in another season which likely is going to have at least some level of an abbreviated off-season. I would be fine with drafting a mid round rookie to play Stars role and let him sit on the bench this season and just watch, in 2022 or 23 then can reasonably cut Star and bring the rookie in. Like it or not the Bills scheme on the D line appears to be we're going to wear you down with quality depth so by the 3rd quarter our subs will be able to beat your best players as we're much fresher. That concept worked pretty well in 208 and 2019, not so much in 2020. What that does mean is the team wants 8 to 9 quality players on the line so if cutting multiple players need to end up signing more and finding money to sign them with and likely play much better than the player you're cutting for the same amount of money. How likely is that to wok out? One question I've often wondered, if Beane had known last year around this time that they'd be limited to no off-season, would he instead have more leaned towards signing Lawson and J Phillips instead of all the new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said: Did u see what KC did to there D after they lost in 2018 to the Pats. They didn't sit back and relax off there success from the previous season. They went out and made the necessary moves to get them to the next level. We should do the same. The players we brought in last off-season were subpar at best and none of them earned there money. Hughes has been in decline since his great yr in 2018 and I expect him to even decline more this coming season. Star is coming off a full yr off who knows what kind of decline we will see from him at the age of 31. Last of all your very silly for thinking I'm silly. KC defense is a holding maching on the backside. The did some nice upgrades but they arent all that great and their window is closing fast. 1 hour ago, Cruiserplayer said: If Star plays for us this year he cost 7.6 mill in cap. If he gets cut 11.8 mill in dead cap: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/ Star eats space- I like Star- be like Star ⭐️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said: Its not that Star is a bad player I respect Star game immensely. I'm just not sold after a season off that he can just come back and play at the same level as before he opted out. He's gonna have to add back the weight. I heard he lost quite a bit of size during the opt out. Harrison Phillips was great in the last 6 weeks of the season. It took him some time to fully get healthy but I think he's the run stopper where looking for at the 1 tech. There's also a few big run stuffing DTs in the draft and even a few guys in free agency we can get for close to or near vet minimum to back HP up. Why not build around Oliver and Phillips at the tackle spots? What's the point in taking a 5m hit in a year we're right up against the cap when there's a good chance he could help us win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 47 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: So who are you replacing them with and actually make the team better? You knocked $24 mil off with the 3 listed above, what actual improvement are you going to make with that money? It's doubtful $24 mil is going to improve the line all that much. Your initial post listed 5 players you wanted to cut, one of which Star will cost additional money to cut. I think it's reasonable that two of the three will be cut. With Star coming back the team has one extra D-Line player available, so it's feasible to cut Addison and one of the tackles and just sign a top edge rusher with the $16 mil savings, certainly doable. Anything much beyond that it likely becomes a one for one, cut/sign replacement. You want to cut four and sign two, the math doesn't exactly work out. Sure you could draft a rookie, but counting on him to contribute at the level of any of these guys you're looking to cut is not likely. I believe too that a big issue the Bills had this past season on the D line was do to bringing in a number of new players, then having no off season or per-season for them to work together. Add on top of that with Star's opt out, they didn't have any true replacements on the team for his role. They tried a number of these new guys in that role, none of which worked out very well. They did improve towards year end, but never to the level expected them to play at and to the level they were paid. Now you want to repeat the same thing in another season which likely is going to have at least some level of an abbreviated off-season. I would be fine with drafting a mid round rookie to play Stars role and let him sit on the bench this season and just watch, in 2022 or 23 then can reasonably cut Star and bring the rookie in. Like it or not the Bills scheme on the D line appears to be we're going to wear you down with quality depth so by the 3rd quarter our subs will be able to beat your best players as we're much fresher. That concept worked pretty well in 208 and 2019, not so much in 2020. What that does mean is the team wants 8 to 9 quality players on the line so if cutting multiple players need to end up signing more and finding money to sign them with and likely play much better than the player you're cutting for the same amount of money. How likely is that to wok out? One question I've often wondered, if Beane had known last year around this time that they'd be limited to no off-season, would he instead have more leaned towards signing Lawson and J Phillips instead of all the new players. I respect the dialogue that's what boards like this are all about. I think u bring up some very valid points. What I was basically saying is we need to consolidate on the line we have bkups getting starters money to play 30-40 percent of the snaps. I realize Mcd likes to have a rotation but there's other ways to get this done then spending over 50mil on the dline and getting poor results in return. We need some studs that play 60-65 percent mixed in with some cheap vets or draft pks rotating in on occasion. Last yr I was dumbfounded by all the money spent on DTs in free agency . Murphy was inactive all yr with his 10 mil salary. I mean Norman and Murphy got 16 mil basically to do nothing. We should of signed James Bradbury instead . The Giants got him for 3yrs - 45 mil and that was steal. Imagine Bradbury and Tre on opposite sides . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 hours ago, MarkyMannn said: This. It would concern me about Star. Did he work out all season and will he be football ready and a contributor to the line. I would guess that trainers stayed in touch with him all season about his regimen for work outs the other side of it could be that Star shows up re-motivated and in great shape. Hard to predict either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said: I respect the dialogue that's what boards like this are all about. I think u bring up some very valid points. What I was basically saying is we need to consolidate on the line we have bkups getting starters money to play 30-40 percent of the snaps. I realize Mcd likes to have a rotation but there's other ways to get this done then spending over 50mil on the dline and getting poor results in return. We need some studs that play 60-65 percent mixed in with some cheap vets or draft pks rotating in on occasion. Last yr I was dumbfounded by all the money spent on DTs in free agency . Murphy was inactive all yr with his 10 mil salary. I mean Norman and Murphy got 16 mil basically to do nothing. We should of signed James Bradbury instead . The Giants got him for 3yrs - 45 mil and that was steal. Imagine Bradbury and Tre on opposite sides . That seems to be a thing of the past in all sports. NBA players taking games off, No pitchers going on 3 days rest, etc. Compare that to how many plays did Bruce Smith come out for. Murphy did serve a purpose early in the season Epenesa wasn't yet ready at all, so he helped keep things together early on. Hindsight is easy, on the other hand if Norman played at half the level he did prior, he'd have been the better choice. Again with a very limited of season, bringing in a guy like Norman who knew the system made a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: That seems to be a thing of the past in all sports. NBA players taking games off, No pitchers going on 3 days rest, etc. Compare that to how many plays did Bruce Smith come out for. Murphy did serve a purpose early in the season Epenesa wasn't yet ready at all, so he helped keep things together early on. Hindsight is easy, on the other hand if Norman played at half the level he did prior, he'd have been the better choice. Again with a very limited of season, bringing in a guy like Norman who knew the system made a lot of sense. Bradbury knew the system also . He was drafted when Mcd was there . Hindsight is 20/20 your right. But I called Norman being useless when we signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Throughout all this I wonder if Star has thought about retirement. In a way I kind of hope it happens and that saves the Bills all that cap space and they can go after a true monster like Williams from the Giants. He could be our Chris Jones with Oliver free to kill on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 5 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said: So instead of giving a reasonable rebuttal to what I was saying u rather try to insult and be humerous. There's nothing Madden about what I was saying. I gurantee we cut at least 3 of them. Beane signed these guys with easy outs from there contracts with little to no cap hit when it comes to Jefferson, Addison and Butler. Import yourself a sense of humor, or is it something else... 😁👍 Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 4 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said: They traded Dee Ford to SF for a 2nd round pick after his Offside penalty cost them trip to super bowl. They traded a 1st rounder to Seattle for Frank Clark and gave him a huge contract. They signed Alex Okafor for 3 year $18m. Doesn’t look like they did much at DT unless I’m missing something. I’d compare their overhaul to bringing in a Watt and Ngoukae and cutting Addison, Butler and/or Jefferson since nobody’s trading anything for those guys. 4 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said: They traded away Dee Ford and Cut Eric Berry, Steve Nelson, Justin Houston . They added Tyrann Mathieu, Frank Clark, Breshad Breeland and Alex Okafor Didn’t they lose the Super Bowl??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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