Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Houston

[purple haze]

8 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

I feel like people aren't taking the Catch-22 situation for a new GM into account enough. Superstar QB is trying to impose his will on the franchise. If Caserio trades him he's basically opening the doors to any other player in the future who wants to hold out/demand a trade and letting them know he will blink first. If I'm Caserio I strong-arm Watson and force him to play or sit out and then trade him next year when I actually get to scout the picks I'm making.  

The Dolphins and the Jets, at least, can stock the Texans with a bounty of high draft picks in the next couple years, which they don’t have now, thanks to Bill O’Brien, and a player or two.  The glut of picks in such a short time frame might not be available next season.  It’s best Caserio make the move now if he wants a strong and quicker jumpstart to their rebuild.

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, SCBills said:

The Jets have cap space and picks, but need an absurd amount of help on both sides of the ball.  

They definitely do, but they have the skeleton of a defense.  Maye, Mosely and Williams is a strong middle back to front.  Offensively, if Watson is there who doesn’t want to play with him and get paid at the same time?  He fast track’s their rebuild, which will rely heavily on Free Agents - which can backfire - but if you’re staring into the abyss like they are now I roll with it.  

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

At this point I just hope he doesn't end up in the AFC East, and yet he very well might!

 

 

This might actually be the best thing for the Bills.  I agree that if Watson ends up in NE it's bad news. But the odds of this happening are close to zero. So realistically we're talking about the Jets & Dolphins:

 

*  If he ends up with the Jets it's good news as they'll need to give away the farm and their first born son to get him.  When surrounded by crap Watson has already shown us he can win 4 games.  Well the crap that is the NY Jets is a much bigger pile then Houston.  IMO Watson to the Jets is bad for Watson and very bad for the Jets.  The Jets have a lot of holes to fill.

 

*  If he ends up at Miami I think you would have some of the same issues as you do with the Jets.  Sure Miami is better but how real was their 10 - 6 record? They got a lot of breaks to eek out some of those wins.  In that last game the Dolphins looked to me like they need a lot of help.  I could see Watson going to Miami, playing well and the Dolphins still only winning 9 or 10 games. They're not going to get multiple special teams and defensive TD's every season.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This might actually be the best thing for the Bills.  I agree that if Watson ends up in NE it's bad news. But the odds of this happening are close to zero. So realistically we're talking about the Jets & Dolphins:

 

*  If he ends up with the Jets it's good news as they'll need to give away the farm and their first born son to get him.  When surrounded by crap Watson has already shown us he can win 4 games.  Well the crap that is the NY Jets is a much bigger pile then Houston.  IMO Watson to the Jets is bad for Watson and very bad for the Jets.  The Jets have a lot of holes to fill.

 

*  If he ends up at Miami I think you would have some of the same issues as you do with the Jets.  Sure Miami is better but how real was their 10 - 6 record? They got a lot of breaks to eek out some of those wins.  In that last game the Dolphins looked to me like they need a lot of help.  I could see Watson going to Miami, playing well and the Dolphins still only winning 9 or 10 games. They're not going to get multiple special teams and defensive TD's every season.

 

 

* except with overwhelmingly the same roster he won 11 games in 2019. 

 

* the Dolphins won some 1 score games. Newsflash. So did the Bills. In fact their excellent record in 1 score games is one of the constants of the McDermott era. 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I fail to see how trading for a top 5 QB in his prime is bad for any team making that trade.... 

 

First I came from this with Watson as a top 10, not a top 5 QB.  I know opinions differ on this but that's where I am on it.

 

Second, if the cost of acquiring Watson is to high it definitely could be bad for Miami or the Jets. 

 

In the case of Miami IF Tua can develop into a decent QB the Dolphins can use the CAP savings and all those draft choices to upgrade their roster at critical positions. If I was a Dolphins fan that season ending loss to Buffalo, with a playoff spot on the line and the Bill's resting a lot of players, would worry me that the Miami roster is not as good as that 10 - 6 record suggested.

 

In the case of the Jets, you're looking at a couple of years to rebuild. Not sure Watson helps you much running for his life throwing the ball to practice squad level skill players.  It's a recipe for Watson becoming the AFC's version of Mathew Stafford - gaudy stats and losing record.

 

IMO the best path forward for the Jets is to take a long term approach.  Give Darnold 2 more years under a rookie contract while you build the team around him with all that CAP space & draft choices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

* except with overwhelmingly the same roster he won 11 games in 2019. 

 

* the Dolphins won some 1 score games. Newsflash. So did the Bills. In fact their excellent record in 1 score games is one of the constants of the McDermott era. 

 

But Watson was missing Hopkins last season which was huge. And sorry but IMO the 2019 Texans were a much better team then the 2020 Dolphins.

 

Looking back over last season I can't think of a single Bills win that was "lucky".  Maybe the first Pats game?  I can think of a Bills loss that was pretty damn unlucky though.

 

If you want an example of a lucky Miami win check out the box score for the Dolphins/Rams game. 

 

As I posted elsewhere if I was a Dolphins fan that season ending loss to Buffalo would set off alarm bells.  To get blown out with a playoff spot on the line and the Bills resting a whole bunch of players would tell me the Miami roster isn't as good as that 10 - 6 record suggests.

 

The Fish could add Watson and he could play well but with a few different bounces of the ball the Dolphins still go 10 - 6.

 

IMO the only place in the AFC East Watson could go that would worry the hell out of me would be NE.  And that ain't happening (I hope).

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by CincyBillsFan

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

But Watson was missing Hopkins last season which was huge.

 

Why? Did he play corner? I mean sure, there were two losses where Watson threw game winning balls only for Keke Coutee to fumble through the endzone and one of his tight ends to drop one right in the bread basket maybe if those throws are at DeAndre Hopkins he catches them (although I doubt he'd be left wide open as the tight end was). But the offense was not a problem in Houston. They moved the ball and scored plenty. The issues were on the other side. And the defense only suffered one significant loss in DJ Reader. But keep on with your false narrative if you like.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

First I came from this with Watson as a top 10, not a top 5 QB.  I know opinions differ on this but that's where I am on it.

 

 

 

You lost me here.

 

After Mahomes you can slot Watson anywhere in the top 5.........but obviously not outside of it.

 

His trade value is second only to Mahomes(Josh might be of equal value to Watson but Watson has a more proven track record).........which is really the biggest problem.......nobody who has anything of commensurate value to offer that is in the market to do so.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You lost me here.

 

After Mahomes you can slot Watson anywhere in the top 5.........but obviously not outside of it.

 

His trade value is second only to Mahomes(Josh might be of equal value to Watson but Watson has a more proven track record).........which is really the biggest problem.......nobody who has anything of commensurate value to offer that is in the market to do so.

 

 

I disagree.  IMO Allen is better then Watson now and that gap will only widen next season.

 

IMO I also consider Rogers, Brady & Wilson to be clearly better then Watson.

 

And I'm curious as to what you would say is Watson's "proven" track record?  He's clearly been a very good QB on a decent team during his first 3 seasons but beyond that what has he actually proven? 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why? Did he play corner? I mean sure, there were two losses where Watson threw game winning balls only for Keke Coutee to fumble through the endzone and one of his tight ends to drop one right in the bread basket maybe if those throws are at DeAndre Hopkins he catches them (although I doubt he'd be left wide open as the tight end was). But the offense was not a problem in Houston. They moved the ball and scored plenty. The issues were on the other side. And the defense only suffered one significant loss in DJ Reader. But keep on with your false narrative if you like.

 

Funny how back in Allen's rookie year when we pointed out all the dropped passes and missed blocks we were called excuse makers.  When we said Allen played on a terrible offense we were told to quit making excuses.  We were told if Allen was truly a great QB he would overcome those things. Now all I see are excuses for Watson. 

 

Yes Watson is a very good QB.  No, IMO he's not a top 5 QB but a top 10 QB.

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

On 2/26/2021 at 8:32 PM, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This might actually be the best thing for the Bills.  I agree that if Watson ends up in NE it's bad news. But the odds of this happening are close to zero. So realistically we're talking about the Jets & Dolphins:

 

*  If he ends up with the Jets it's good news as they'll need to give away the farm and their first born son to get him.  When surrounded by crap Watson has already shown us he can win 4 games.  Well the crap that is the NY Jets is a much bigger pile then Houston.  IMO Watson to the Jets is bad for Watson and very bad for the Jets.  The Jets have a lot of holes to fill.

 

*  If he ends up at Miami I think you would have some of the same issues as you do with the Jets.  Sure Miami is better but how real was their 10 - 6 record? They got a lot of breaks to eek out some of those wins.  In that last game the Dolphins looked to me like they need a lot of help.  I could see Watson going to Miami, playing well and the Dolphins still only winning 9 or 10 games. They're not going to get multiple special teams and defensive TD's every season.

 

 

 

 

Even if he went to the Pats, I still wouldn't be afraid of him, not with Josh Allen. He's no Brady.

[YoloinOhio]

On 2/26/2021 at 7:28 PM, purple haze said:

They definitely do, but they have the skeleton of a defense.  Maye, Mosely and Williams is a strong middle back to front.  Offensively, if Watson is there who doesn’t want to play with him and get paid at the same time?  He fast track’s their rebuild, which will rely heavily on Free Agents - which can backfire - but if you’re staring into the abyss like they are now I roll with it.  

Maye is a FA

quinnen is going to be gone  to Houston in any deshaun trade 

Mosley has played 2 (two!) games for the Jets since signing that disgusting over market value contract in 2019

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree.  IMO Allen is better then Watson now and that gap will only widen next season.

 

IMO I also consider Rogers, Brady & Wilson to be clearly better then Watson.

 

And I'm curious as to what you would say is Watson's "proven" track record?  He's clearly been a very good QB on a decent team during his first 3 seasons but beyond that what has he actually proven? 

 

 

 

 

 

Watson had a better statistical year than Allen even last year..............both more productive and more efficient on a worse team.

 

I am a huge Allen fan......but he went from one of the least efficient passers in the NFL in 2019 to one of the best just last year.    You likely don't realize this but Allen's amazing improvement in accuracy still finished him below Watson in that regard in 2020.    

 

4 seasons of top QB play vs 1 = more proven.    And fwiw he's less than a year older than Allen.   

 

He was much better than Russell Wilson last season.    He was better than Brady.    Rodgers is certainly acceptable as perhaps better than Watson right now.......but that's also debatable.

 

Not debatable that he is one of the top 5 QB's in the NFL.

 

Very hard to find a trade value match for a 25 year old QB who is THAT good.

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Funny how back in Allen's rookie year when we pointed out all the dropped passes and missed blocks we were called excuse makers.  When we said Allen played on a terrible offense we were told to quit making excuses.  We were told if Allen was truly a great QB he would overcome those things. Now all I see are excuses for Watson. 

 

 

What does this have to do with Josh Allen? 

 

Watson put up a top 5 quarterback season on a dreadful team. Your takes on him are bad.

[purple haze]

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maye is a FA

quinnen is going to be gone  to Houston in any deshaun trade 

Mosley has played 2 (two!) games for the Jets since signing that disgusting over market value contract in 2019

 

All that’s true.

 

Maye can be re-signed.

 

Williams might be included in a deal, but it’s not a certainty.  depends on how Texans management views him.   That organization has issues.  Can’t assume they will do what makes sense.
 

Mosely’s deal was terrible.  He hasn’t played.  Has the time off given him renewed health and energy or eroded his physical talents?   We’ll see.  
 

if all three aren’t there, and Jets still get Watson, push that cap money on the offense and try to win shootouts every week.
 

 

[FireChans]

13 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree.  IMO Allen is better then Watson now and that gap will only widen next season.

 

IMO I also consider Rogers, Brady & Wilson to be clearly better then Watson.

 

And I'm curious as to what you would say is Watson's "proven" track record?  He's clearly been a very good QB on a decent team during his first 3 seasons but beyond that what has he actually proven? 

 

 

It appears you answered your own question.

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Watson had a better statistical year than Allen even last year..............both more productive and more efficient on a worse team.

 

I am a huge Allen fan......but he went from one of the least efficient passers in the NFL in 2019 to one of the best just last year.    You likely don't realize this but Allen's amazing improvement in accuracy still finished him below Watson in that regard in 2020.    

 

4 seasons of top QB play vs 1 = more proven.    And fwiw he's less than a year older than Allen.   

 

He was much better than Russell Wilson last season.    He was better than Brady.    Rodgers is certainly acceptable as perhaps better than Watson right now.......but that's also debatable.

 

Not debatable that he is one of the top 5 QB's in the NFL.

 

Very hard to find a trade value match for a 25 year old QB who is THAT good.

 

 

I feel like it's ground hog day.  When posters claim Watson had a better statistical year then Allen did in 2020 and I point out that Watson faced a lot more prevent defense which impacted the numbers big time I'm accused of "trashing" Watson.

 

I suspect I'll be called a Watson hater for pointing out that the difference in chronological age is far less important then the FACT that Watson has an extra season of NFL experience. 

 

And to double down on my supposed disrespect of Watson is it okay for me to point out that he played for an elite college football program?  That Watson had a huge advantage over Allen from this?  So claiming Watson is more consistent then Allen is disingenuous.

 

As for Brady, hey I hate him as much as the next Bills fan but he is the reason that Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl this year.  That alone makes him a better QB then Watson IMO.

 

And for someone who claims to be a huge Allen fan you sure do pour a lot of passion into defending and talking up Watson.  So who would you rather have - Watson or Allen?  In fact the last time I saw this much passion over a QB on 2BD was after Allen was drafted and folks couldn't stop telling us all how much Allen sucked and how bad a pick it was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What does this have to do with Josh Allen? 

 

Watson put up a top 5 quarterback season on a dreadful team. Your takes on him are bad.

 

There's more to a QB then stats.  IMO Watson did not put up a top 5 season as a QB.  Sure his stats were top 5 but by that criteria QB's like Stafford would be considered elite.

 

Watson is a very good QB and if the Bills didn't have Allen I would be clamoring for Bean to make a move for him.  But IMO Allen is better and has entered the realm of elite QBing.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

There's more to a QB then stats.  IMO Watson did not put up a top 5 season as a QB.  Sure his stats were top 5 but by that criteria QB's like Stafford would be considered elite.

 

Watson is a very good QB and if the Bills didn't have Allen I would be clamoring for Bean to make a move for him.  But IMO Allen is better and has entered the realm of elite QBing.

 

 

I am sorry comparing Deshaun Watson to Matt Stafford is borderline nuts.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry comparing Deshaun Watson to Matt Stafford is borderline nuts.

 

It is!  Could have fooled me.

 

In 12 seasons Stafford has thrown for 45,109 yards;  282 TD's & 144 INT's.  In 8/12 of Stafford's seasons he has thrown for over 4,000 yards.  That's 2/3 of his career. 

 

Watson has thrown for over 4,000 yards in half of his seasons (2/4).

 

And when you look at their best seasons so far Stafford holds up well against Watson. 

 

A couple of great Stafford seasons:  2017 = 4446 yards;  29 TD's & 10 INT's and in 2011 = 5038 yards;  41 TD's & 16 INT's.

 

Watson's two best seasons:  2018 = 4165 yards;  26 TD's & 9 INT's and in 2020 = 4823 yards;  33 TD's & 7 INT's

 

So yea, they do belong in the same discussion.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

It is!  Could have fooled me.

 

In 12 seasons Stafford has thrown for 45,109 yards;  282 TD's & 144 INT's.  In 8/12 of Stafford's seasons he has thrown for over 4,000 yards.  That's 2/3 of his career. 

 

Watson has thrown for over 4,000 yards in half of his seasons (2/4).

 

And when you look at their best seasons so far Stafford holds up well against Watson. 

 

A couple of great Stafford seasons:  2017 = 4446 yards;  29 TD's & 10 INT's and in 2011 = 5038 yards;  41 TD's & 16 INT's.

 

Watson's two best seasons:  2018 = 4165 yards;  26 TD's & 9 INT's and in 2020 = 4823 yards;  33 TD's & 7 INT's

 

So yea, they do belong in the same discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

Matt Stafford's best season coming 8 years after he came into the league? Yea. Keep reaching.

[Rico]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

It is!  Could have fooled me.

 

In 12 seasons Stafford has thrown for 45,109 yards;  282 TD's & 144 INT's.  In 8/12 of Stafford's seasons he has thrown for over 4,000 yards.  That's 2/3 of his career. 

 

Watson has thrown for over 4,000 yards in half of his seasons (2/4).

 

And when you look at their best seasons so far Stafford holds up well against Watson. 

 

A couple of great Stafford seasons:  2017 = 4446 yards;  29 TD's & 10 INT's and in 2011 = 5038 yards;  41 TD's & 16 INT's.

 

Watson's two best seasons:  2018 = 4165 yards;  26 TD's & 9 INT's and in 2020 = 4823 yards;  33 TD's & 7 INT's

 

So yea, they do belong in the same discussion.

 

 

 

 

They've both started 3 playoff games. Watson is 1-2, Stafford is 0-3.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Matt Stafford's best season coming 8 years after he came into the league? Yea. Keep reaching.

Stafford threw for 5038 yards and 41 TD's in only his THIRD season.  So I don't think I'm reaching one bit.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

As for Brady, hey I hate him as much as the next Bills fan but he is the reason that Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl this year.  That alone makes him a better QB then Watson IMO

You don’t think Tampa’s defense had anything to do with that??

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

You don’t think Tampa’s defense had anything to do with that??

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What does this have to do with Josh Allen? 

 

Watson put up a top 5 quarterback season on a dreadful team. Your takes on him are bad.

I love this and the allen vs Watson thread.  They’ve been the most entertaining threads of the offseason imo!

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not the NFL, but Deshaun Watson's intangibles at Clemson were tremendous, no way they beat Alabama in his last game without him.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s all your fault that my wife yelled at me for cooking her steaks to medium instead of med rare. I got caught up laughing at your posts and forgot about the meat!! 
 

well worth it though!  My steak was thicker and a perfect med rate.  Perfect steak and good laughs 👍🏻
 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by NewEra

[Rico]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s all your fault that my wife yelled at me for cooking her steaks to medium instead of med rare. I got caught up laughing at your posts and forgot about the meat!! 
 

well worth it though!  My steak was thicker and a perfect med rate.  Perfect steak and good laughs 👍🏻
 

 

Here you go:

https://tinyurl.com/a62vyrna

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

Here you go:

https://tinyurl.com/a62vyrna

That’s literally what happened.  Not even trying to be witty.  
 

Thanks for the tips though.  Maybe I can be as witty as you with some practice 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Stafford threw for 5038 yards and 41 TD's in only his THIRD season.  So I don't think I'm reaching one bit.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

56 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe Aaron Rodgers would’ve won with that team. Honestly, I think Deshaun Watson would have won with that roster.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

Woah you are the guy saying DeShaun Watson is Matt Stafford because they both put up "stats". Now you want it to be about wins?

 

Okay.

Matt Stafford first 4 years: 17-28, 0-1

Deshaun Watson first 4 years: 28-25, 1-2

 

You are the one flip flopping hilariously from stats to wins as it suits you to make what is frankly a bizarre argument. 

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I believe Aaron Rodgers would’ve won with that team. Honestly, I think Deshaun Watson would have won with that roster.

 

Fair enough.  That's a reasonable opinion.

 

And I agree that Rogers could have won a SB with this years Tampa team but I don't agree that Watson would have.  So far Watson's playoff record and performances don't indicate to me that he could have carried the Buc's through 4 straight playoff games.

 

In fact if we're going to be talking hypothetical situations I think Allen would have been more likley to lead this years Tampa team to a SB then Watson would have. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Woah you are the guy saying DeShaun Watson is Matt Stafford because they both put up "stats". Now you want it to be about wins?

 

Okay.

Matt Stafford first 4 years: 17-28, 0-1

Deshaun Watson first 4 years: 28-25, 1-2

 

You are the one flip flopping hilariously from stats to wins as it suits you to make what is frankly a bizarre argument. 

 

To be clear I said that Watson MIGHT turn into the AFC's version of Stafford if he was traded to Miami or the Jets.  You need to get that right to understand my point.

 

And it's NOT flip flopping to point out that you judge a QB based on MULTIPLE factors including stats, leadership, toughness & wins.  Again you seem to have failed to grasp that my point was that a QB should be judged by more then just the stats and that intangibles play a big part in the assessment.

 

But can we at least agree that Watson has been fortunate to play on a very good football team through his first 3 seasons?   Last year was the first time the team around him sucked. At least that's what your the records you posted above seem to say.

 

 

 

[Boxcar]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:01 PM, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree.  IMO Allen is better then Watson now and that gap will only widen next season.

 

IMO I also consider Rogers, Brady & Wilson to be clearly better then Watson.

 

And I'm curious as to what you would say is Watson's "proven" track record?  He's clearly been a very good QB on a decent team during his first 3 seasons but beyond that what has he actually proven? 

 

 

He's proven that he's good at playing QB. In a year where the league was packed with great QBs, Watson, with no Diggs, Lockett, Metcalf, Hill, Kelce or Evans tier receivers, led the league in passing yards. I can't imagine time of possession was great for the Texans, either, given their awful defense. He's special. He's better than Wilson. I view it Mahomes-Allen/Rodgers/Watson-Brady that are my top 5. Prescott when healthy and Wilson are up there, too. Imo, it's a clear top 4, though, and you could probably 2-4 in any order and justify it until Josh Allen ascends next season to be the new unquestioned #1.

[TheFunPolice]

The Stafford/Watson conversation is interesting... Stafford is actually someone I thought of for a Watson comparison.

 

Both put up stats, and both are very good. Both also play(ed) for terrible franchises, although the Texans were halfway respectable until this past season. Watson had a pretty nice supporting cast, whereas Stafford never really did. 

 

What did the Texans in was giving O'Brien the power to destroy the team with idiotic moves that left them without star players or draft picks, which takes some real doing. With all the moves they made they should at least have a nice boatload of draft picks. Somehow they have nothing.

 

That and hiring a televangelist as the team president. 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Stafford/Watson conversation is interesting... Stafford is actually someone I thought of for a Watson comparison.

 

Both put up stats, and both are very good. Both also play(ed) for terrible franchises, although the Texans were halfway respectable until this past season. Watson had a pretty nice supporting cast, whereas Stafford never really did. 

 

What did the Texans in was giving O'Brien the power to destroy the team with idiotic moves that left them without star players or draft picks, which takes some real doing. 

 

That and hiring a televangelist as the team president. 

 

Nice supporting cast = the bottom 3 OL in the league the last 3 season.  Hopkins was “the nice supporting cast”.  Fuller was hurt 1/2 the time.  No tight ends.  No RBs.  No coaching.  Solid front 7 with no secondary.  
 

JMO, they won because of Watson, Hopkins and Watt imo.  The rest of the “nice supporting cast” were made to look good because those 3 made them look good.  
 

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, NewEra said:

Nice supporting cast = the bottom 3 OL in the league the last 3 season.  Hopkins was “the nice supporting cast”.  Fuller was hurt 1/2 the time.  No tight ends.  No RBs.  No coaching.  Solid front 7 with no secondary.  
 

JMO, they won because of Watson, Hopkins and Watt imo.  The rest of the “nice supporting cast” were made to look good because those 3 made them look good.  
 

 

Houston had some nice players, especially on defense. 

 

Clowney was a nice tandem with Watt, netting 9 sacks Watson's first 2 seasons. Coaching was never great in Houston or Detroit, but other than Calvin Johnson (in his Megatron days) I can't think of a single Lions player of note aside from Stafford. 

 

I'm not saying Stafford is better, don't get me wrong. I am saying that Stafford is going to shock some people now that he FINALLY has a real coach and a good team around him. Watson just reminds me of him: lots of stats, not a lot of winning, although more W's than Stafford at the same point in their careers. 

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But can we at least agree that Watson has been fortunate to play on a very good football team through his first 3 seasons?   Last year was the first time the team around him sucked. At least that's what your the records you posted above seem to say.

 

 

No we can't agree that. In 2017 Deshaun Watson was a rookie started 6 games at went 3-3. Without him Houston went 1-9. The roster was decent at that point but they were completely injury ravaged even aside from losing Watson. That resulted in a 4-12 season. 

 

In 2018 they were a pretty good roster. No doubt. They had a top 5 defense - JJ Watt played all 16 games, they still had Jadaveon Clowney opposite him, they had DJ Reader in the middle of that Dline and they had Tyron Mathieu and Kareem Jackson in the secondary. Offensively the line sucked and their backs and tight ends were pretty average but they had probably the best receiver in the game, a good #2 for half the season and a good Quarterback. 

 

In 2019 Watt played only 8 games, Clowney was gone, Mathieu was gone and Jackson was gone. The defense consequently went from top 5 in points allowed to 19th. On offense their line improved a bit, Carlos Hyde had a career year (helped by running against light boxes) and Fuller got up to 11 games alongside Hopkins. I can strongly make a case that roster should not have won 11 games. 

 

In 2020 Watt did play all 16 games but DJ Reader became the latest piece off that once top 5 defense to disappear and the defense ranked 27th, they traded away their best receiver, Fuller again missed time, their oline regressed, they fired their coach after 4 weeks and the season became a lost cause pretty early. Now I'd also say as much as the 2019 Texans shouldn't have won 11 games I think the 2020 Texans should have won more than 4. They outplayed the Titans once and the Colts twice and managed to blow those games. That is the bounce of the ball in the NFL. 

 

So you have to have context. I think the 2018 team was a decent team and they lost a playoff game to a less talented Indianapolis squad in Watson's first playoff exposure where he did not play well. The 2019 team with a less able Quarterback would have been a .500 team at absolute best. 

42 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Houston had some nice players, especially on defense. 

 

They did in 2018. They were injury ravaged in '17 and they had pretty much all gone by '19. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

He's proven that he's good at playing QB. In a year where the league was packed with great QBs, Watson, with no Diggs, Lockett, Metcalf, Hill, Kelce or Evans tier receivers, led the league in passing yards. I can't imagine time of possession was great for the Texans, either, given their awful defense. He's special. He's better than Wilson. I view it Mahomes-Allen/Rodgers/Watson-Brady that are my top 5. Prescott when healthy and Wilson are up there, too. Imo, it's a clear top 4, though, and you could probably 2-4 in any order and justify it until Josh Allen ascends next season to be the new unquestioned #1.

 

 

He had Hopkins for 3 years.  1 playoff win.  He's never carried that team.  He's had 1 career year with numbers Wilson has averaged over the past 6 seasons.  Wilson has led a top 10 O for 8 of his 9 seasons.  He scored 37 of the team's 38 TDs in 2017 in the only season they didn't make the playoffs.  He's gotten them to the playoffs the last 3 years with mediocre (or worse) D's.  Before Lockett and Metcalf (who's been around for 2 seasons), Wilson was doing it with Doug Baldwin.  

 

Watson has a ways to go to catch Wilson.