ROCKPILE REVIEW - Oh, Well

[Billsfan1972]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. We didn't just make little mistakes, we made major ones.

And at the very worst times.....  Ughhhh

Edited November 16, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[teef]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. We didn't just make little mistakes, we made major ones.

there were a number of sizable offensive gains that were called back, the ints, missed tackles, etc.  this was a good team yesterday that just played bad.

 

i really think the bills can win games in the playoffs...if they can play cleaner football.  

[oldmanfan]

48 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Watch other teams that still throw it downfield.  It is done. 

 

Oops, forgot who I was responding to.😜

 

That has been MIA of late.

They are specifically taking that away from the Bills.  You honestly need to go take a class and learn about the game of football.

[The Jokeman]

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's not playoff time yet.  McDermott is still building his team.

 

But I agree with the fundamental point.   Running and stopping the run is pretty fundamental to winning, and those are clearly the Bills weaknesses.  

 

As someone said, if they had Morse, and Feliciano, running probably would look better.  

 

If Beane had one do over, I'd bet that it would be that he would have found a a big guy to play the 1-tech.  

Did Beane know Star wasn't going to play this season? Also we were linked to DJ Reader before he went to Cincy. Beanes biggest gaffs in free agency to me were Butler, but thankfully he can be cut next year and over paying Klein and not adding depth to our LBs.

Edited November 16, 2020 by The Jokeman

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Did Beane know Star wasn't going to play this season? Also we were linked to DJ Reader before he went to Cincy. Beanes biggest gaffs in free agency to me were Butler, but thankfully he can be cut next year and over paying Klein and not adding depth to our LBs.

No, he didn't know. But he knew he needed a second guy, and I thi k mostly he was thinking Philips would be that guy.  He did a lot of work on the D line, but he didn't get a true backup for Star. 

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They are specifically taking that away from the Bills.  You honestly need to go take a class and learn about the game of football.

And they do this to every team in the NFL.  The point is (and probably to much for you to grasp), is others still learn to adapt and the Bills now seem to be very much stymied by the changes.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

No, he didn't know. But he knew he needed a second guy, and I thi k mostly he was thinking Philips would be that guy.  He did a lot of work on the D line, but he didn't get a true backup for Star. 

Fair enough but agree I think most thought Harry play up to his rookie level which he hasn't. 

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's not playoff time yet.  McDermott is still building his team.

 

But I agree with the fundamental point.   Running and stopping the run is pretty fundamental to winning, and those are clearly the Bills weaknesses.  

 

As someone said, if they had Morse, and Feliciano, running probably would look better.  

 

If Beane had one do over, I'd bet that it would be that he would have found a a big guy to play the 1-tech.  

There were guys available this season as a 1 tech. Beane just decided to use what he had. Star may not be a Pro Bowler but he sure is vital. 

[Jrb1979]

23 minutes ago, teef said:

there were a number of sizable offensive gains that were called back, the ints, missed tackles, etc.  this was a good team yesterday that just played bad.

 

i really think the bills can win games in the playoffs...if they can play cleaner football.  

Only if they figure out how to stop the run. Its pretty sad watching Arizona run the same run play over and over and the Bills not being able to stop it. Your coach needs to be better at half time adjustments but I don't see that ever happening as he has never done it. 

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Fair enough but agree I think most thought Harry play up to his rookie level which he hasn't. 

You dont have to defend Beane to me.  In his job, he makes a lot of decisions, and I do t expect that he will get them all correct. That's impossible.  

 

He just missed on the middle of th D line.  I thought Harry would be fine behind Star, and he might have been. But it turned out that without Star, Harry couldn't do what was needed. 

[Stank_Nasty]

40 minutes ago, teef said:

there were a number of sizable offensive gains that were called back, the ints, missed tackles, etc.  this was a good team yesterday that just played bad.

 

i really think the bills can win games in the playoffs...if they can play cleaner football.  

This team is gonna be BATTLE TESTED by playoff time. Way more so than last season. 7 of their 10 games this year have been against teams that are 6-3 or better. Thats madness.... With the 9-0 steelers and 6-3 fins still on tap.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

11 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Bass showed us we now have a reliable kicker. I'll be confident that he'll give us a game winning kick in the playoffs or even the Super Bowl.

Bass can score from the 40. Thats a huge advantage. 

[teef]

35 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Only if they figure out how to stop the run. Its pretty sad watching Arizona run the same run play over and over and the Bills not being able to stop it. Your coach needs to be better at half time adjustments but I don't see that ever happening as he has never done it. 

the third quarter is definitely this teams weakness, but i don't agree with the bolded, or this type of thinking.  before the season, there were countless posters that told us josh allen would never improve, and this offense would never regularly score more than 21 points.  both have happened.  this team is still evolving, and i never discount this team getting better...even this season.

20 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

This team is gonna be BATTLE TESTED by playoff time. Way more so than last season. 7 of their 10 games this year have been against teams that are 6-3 or better. Thats madness.... With the 9-0 steelers and 6-3 fins still on tap.

we all said that this team could have the same record as last year, and still be better.  when the bills play clean football, i really think they can hang with anyone.

47 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And they do this to every team in the NFL.  The point is (and probably to much for you to grasp), is others still learn to adapt and the Bills now seem to be very much stymied by the changes.

you adapt by taking what the other teams give you.  

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And they do this to every team in the NFL.  The point is (and probably to much for you to grasp), is others still learn to adapt and the Bills now seem to be very much stymied by the changes.

Do they really?  show us the breakdown of long pass plays then.  

 

You are just ridiculous.  You don't care that they lost yesterday, all you care about is whether they have long pass plays because to you that's exciting.

[Billsfan1972]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Do they really?  show us the breakdown of long pass plays then.  

 

You are just ridiculous.  You don't care that they lost yesterday, all you care about is whether they have long pass plays because to you that's exciting.

Here you go.....  Don't have earlier weeks but we saw plenty of longer passes.  WOuldn't expect you to have any stats and as usual just complaining about my posts without any facts.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/type/buffalo-bills/2020/week

Edited November 16, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You dont have to defend Beane to me.  In his job, he makes a lot of decisions, and I do t expect that he will get them all correct. That's impossible.  

 

He just missed on the middle of th D line.  I thought Harry would be fine behind Star, and he might have been. But it turned out that without Star, Harry couldn't do what was needed. 

I'm just putting it out there as sometimes people think I'm overly critical, like yesterdays loss I'm much like you as upset but it hasn't made me hate on this team yet in other threads I was critical on Josh but moreso because felt he played bad then hate him as tbh I hated that we lost the game for him after he did bring us back etc. 

[Figster]

5 hours ago, stuvian said:

miracles happen and sometimes you're on the wrong end of them

I don't like being on the wrong end of a play that will go down as one of the all time greats. On the other hand its hard not to appreciate the significance of the play. What it meant for Arizona and Kyler Murray. The astonished look on some of the Cardinals players was priceless. With a day to let my emotions get back to normal. It was a great play. I think when its talked about the valiant effort from Josh Allen will also be remembered.

 

Two of the NFL's new greats taking it to the wire...

Edited November 16, 2020 by Figster

[CircleTheWagons99]

I personally want to see the refs call the game evenly 

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

I personally want to see the refs call the game evenly 

How the PI wasn't called on Brown boggles the mind.

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. We didn't just make little mistakes, we made major ones.

Gunner -

 

I don't get this.   What major mistakes?

 

There's a difference between major mistakes, and ordinary mistakes that have large consequences.  Penalties are ordinary mistakes, but every once in a while a penalty is a game changer.  

 

I thought the the Bills played pretty well, but made some mistakes.  Same could be said about Arizona.  The two Allen INTs and the fumble probably are major mistakes, but even those are routine events in a football game.  

 

The Bills did have one horrible string of penalties, but I don't think that's a major mistake - that's just a lot of penalties coming together.   You want the team to play tentatively after they've gotten two penalties in a row.  

 

I don't think the Bills lost because of mistakes.  They lost because they can't run the ball and they can't stop the run.  Those aren't mistakes - that's poor coaching, poor talent, or a combination of both.  That's coaches and players presumably doing their best, but their best isn't enough to get the job done.  

 

What are the major mistakes you're thinking of?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Gunner -

 

I don't get this.   What major mistakes?

 

There's a difference between major mistakes, and ordinary mistakes that have large consequences.  Penalties are ordinary mistakes, but every once in a while a penalty is a game changer.  

 

I thought the the Bills played pretty well, but made some mistakes.  Same could be said about Arizona.  The two Allen INTs and the fumble probably are major mistakes, but even those are routine events in a football game.  

 

The Bills did have one horrible string of penalties, but I don't think that's a major mistake - that's just a lot of penalties coming together.   You want the team to play tentatively after they've gotten two penalties in a row.  

 

I don't think the Bills lost because of mistakes.  They lost because they can't run the ball and they can't stop the run.  Those aren't mistakes - that's poor coaching, poor talent, or a combination of both.  That's coaches and players presumably doing their best, but their best isn't enough to get the job done.  

 

What are the major mistakes you're thinking of?

 

Major mistakes were the two INTs, the 12 yard punt and the play to end the game. They made lots of minor mistakes too. Penalties, protection breakdowns, missed tackles. 

 

The Bills lost because they made too many mistakes to beat a good team on the road. They couldn't run or stop the run last week either. But they avoided the big mistakes. 

[Figster]

32 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Gunner -

 

I don't get this.   What major mistakes?

 

There's a difference between major mistakes, and ordinary mistakes that have large consequences.  Penalties are ordinary mistakes, but every once in a while a penalty is a game changer.  

 

I thought the the Bills played pretty well, but made some mistakes.  Same could be said about Arizona.  The two Allen INTs and the fumble probably are major mistakes, but even those are routine events in a football game.  

 

The Bills did have one horrible string of penalties, but I don't think that's a major mistake - that's just a lot of penalties coming together.   You want the team to play tentatively after they've gotten two penalties in a row.  

 

I don't think the Bills lost because of mistakes.  They lost because they can't run the ball and they can't stop the run.  Those aren't mistakes - that's poor coaching, poor talent, or a combination of both.  That's coaches and players presumably doing their best, but their best isn't enough to get the job done.  

 

What are the major mistakes you're thinking of?

Buffalo scored 30 points and lost the game not being able to knock down the football on a hail mary. Some of Buffalo's best talent right where they needed to be on the play. The Bills D came at Murray in waves. He's not an easy player to defend. The Cardinals have the top ranked O in the league. This could be a preview to the next Superbowl matchup.

 

The game plans worked in my humble opinion OP.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Figster

[Shaw66]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Major mistakes were the two INTs, the 12 yard punt and the play to end the game. They made lots of minor mistakes too. Penalties, protection breakdowns, missed tackles. 

 

The Bills lost because they made too many mistakes to beat a good team on the road. They couldn't run or stop the run last week either. But they avoided the big mistakes. 

 

Okay.  The punt, for sure.  The INTs happen in any game.   I guess I agree that they're major mistakes, but if they're major mistakes, the Cards had two turnovers, too, so major mistakes in the takeaway category were even.   I don't count those as things that changed the game. 

 

There was no major mistake on the final play.  The pass rush was good, could have contained Murray better, but it forced him into a difficult throw.   He made a great throw under pressure.   The DBs did what they were supposed to do - White was with his man and the safeties closed beautifully on one of the most dangerous receivers in the game.   He made the play, the Bills didn't, but those aren't mistakes.  Michael Jordan missed 26 game-winning shots.  Those aren't mistakes, either.  

 

 

[Buftex]

The loss stings, but I would rather lose a game on the final play due to a great play made by a great player, than a colossal f-up by one of our own.  We have been on the side of that a few too many times. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Okay.  The punt, for sure.  The INTs happen in any game.   I guess I agree that they're major mistakes, but if they're major mistakes, the Cards had two turnovers, too, so major mistakes in the takeaway category were even.   I don't count those as things that changed the game. 

 

There was no major mistake on the final play.  The pass rush was good, could have contained Murray better, but it forced him into a difficult throw.   He made a great throw under pressure.   The DBs did what they were supposed to do - White was with his man and the safeties closed beautifully on one of the most dangerous receivers in the game.   He made the play, the Bills didn't, but those aren't mistakes.  Michael Jordan missed 26 game-winning shots.  Those aren't mistakes, either.  

 

 

 

Yea when good team plays good team normally the one that makes fewest major mistakes wins. That happened yesterday. 

[Comebackkid]

44 minutes ago, Buftex said:

The loss stings, but I would rather lose a game on the final play due to a great play made by a great player, than a colossal f-up by one of our own.  We have been on the side of that a few too many times. 

Well it was kind of a colossal screw up by Addison to leap and fall on his face rather than just chase after Murry

[Billsfan1972]

Whether major or not is nitpicking.  The offsetting penalties (on a fee play) that gained 21 yards was major (int the next play).

 

The John Brown first down 24 yard reception too negated by a tickytack hold away from the play too I'd call major.  Cost the Bills 45 yards and first downs.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Buddo]

I pretty much agree with the assessment Shaw.

 

Allen was 'off' for good portions of the game. He started pretty decently, then the Cards started to get more pressure, and he then became less accurate, both with reads and throws, or should I say more hesitant in his reads.

 

Much like against the 'Hawks the D was another 'curate's egg'. They did a lot right to keep everyone interested, but enough wrong to let the Cards be in the game. Biting on Murray's 'sell' for his TD runs is always possible, as he does a great job of disguise, but doing it twice, in effect, was poor.  While they may have largely 'contained' Murray's own rushing, they didn't for the Cards other RBs. It's still an issue.

 

Two last quarter TD drives from both teams, and the one that was far better was the Bills. The pass and catch to Diggs, was exactly the sort of quality play you want your QB and #1 WR to make, and it's a sign that you have a good pair, when they do.

 

The Cards were ushered to around the Bills 40 yard line, and then Murray heaves up a prayer, which Hopkins answers in some style. I'm sure Murray is getting a lot of plaudits for it, and yet the man of that play, was Hopkins. Any QB in the league could have thrown the football in the air that far, and in that fashion. The only kudos Murray deserves, is in creating himself time to chuck it up there.

 

That isn't trying to belittle Murray as a QB as such, it's just an observation off of those two last quarter drives. Murray looks like a keeper, and is exciting to watch, yet is also still developing.

 

My last 'observation', if you will, is in regards of the Bills 'prevent' D on the last drive. While I think there's a time and place for it, I didn't think it's there and then. Im not entirely worried that they went 'prevent', but I didn't like that they made it so darned obvious. There was nothing stopping them showing 'pressure', but then dropping into coverage as the ball was snapped. We just said 'we are in prevent', and that was the end of it.

 

Having said that, the sequence of plays, probably went largely as Frazier and McDermott would have hoped/expected, at least until Hopkins grabbed the Hail Mary.

 

In the heat of the moment, I think Poyer actually knocked White away from just possibly breaking it up. Oh Well.

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Shaw....news flash...Edmunds stinks! If he isn’t hurt he has to go. I’ve never seen an NFL MLB get tossed aside, fly through the air, and land right on his rump, wondering what hit him, but I saw it yesterday. 

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw....news flash...Edmunds stinks! If he isn’t hurt he has to go. I’ve never seen an NFL MLB get tossed aside, fly through the air, and land right on his rump, wondering what hit him, but I saw it yesterday. 

Getting blocked while in hot pursuit is going to happen. Getting knocked on your rump is going to happen. Players get up off the ground after every play. Edmunds QB's the D.  Overall I thought the D played well vs Kyler Murray and the top ranked O in the league. 

[Shaw66]

58 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw....news flash...Edmunds stinks! If he isn’t hurt he has to go. I’ve never seen an NFL MLB get tossed aside, fly through the air, and land right on his rump, wondering what hit him, but I saw it yesterday. 

I don't think he stinks.  

 

A little less so this season, but last season he's was fabulous in the pass defense.   Covers so much ground.   You could see QBs staying away from the middle of the field, because he was always a threat to be in the passing lane.   So there's that.  

 

Against the run he's been okay to horrible.  I think he's still learning to stay off of blocks.  I think he needs to wait longer before he closes, but I'm not expert.  He's begun to tackle with more authority.  And I think maybe more than anyone else, he's the guy who needs Star in the middle.   Star occupies a lineman or two every play.  Without Star, guards or a center always seem to be roaming free, looking for Tremaine.  

 

He was in on a lot of tackles yesterday, and he was a big part of containing Murray.