Livinginthepast Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 RW was a great owner and there would not even be a team in Buffalo had he not done such a great job for as long as he did. Had we won any of those SB's as we should have, he would have been a legend and could have rode off into the sunset. RW's big mistake really was not relinquishing control in his later years when he had obviously gone senile. The last 15 years of his of his life, he had completely lost the plot. All those cringy moments like the "wilson said" speech etc were accompanied by awful personnel decisions on and off the football field. He interferred way too much in the day to day operations and team decisions. The benching of Flutie for Johnson in the playoffs. The hiring of the fraud Donaho and the stab in the back to the fans of Buffalo by moving the games to Toronto for that horrendous series just tainted RW in my opinion. He would have never hired McD and Beane because he would have wanted too much control of the situation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bulldog said: So Mr. Wilson just "lucked out" in finding a GM who could put it all together & build those Super Bowl teams - Yes. Given the state of the Wilson-lead franchise for the decades before, and decades after... Yes. but the Pegula's used all their business acumen to select Beane to be the GM to lead the current turnaround? No, and I never mentioned Beane. They were humble enough to realize they were in over their heads trying to identify quality candidates in an old-boy network that they had just joined. They were humble enough to outsource that search to people who knew better, and trust the judgement of the consultants, and go after McD. And then McD brought Beane with him. They don't deserve much credit for anything other than acknowledging they needed outside help and staying out of the way. Whereas we all know Ralph was a hands-on (read: meddling) owner who is better known for running good coaches out of town than bringing them in. And when he did realize he needed help, turned to the likes of Russ Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Fair enough - but do we actually know the process Mr. Wilson used to select what turned out to be his quality GM choice? Did he seek out help from his NFL connections or was he just lucky in plucking someone from the old-boy network that just happened to work out? I think that I am now just going back to enjoying that the team is 7 & 2 and looking good on the field, in the standings, and for the immediate future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Bulldog said: Fair enough - but do we actually know the process Mr. Wilson used to select what turned out to be his quality GM choice? Did he seek out help from his NFL connections or was he just lucky in plucking someone from the old-boy network that just happened to work out? I think that I am now just going back to enjoying that the team is 7 & 2 and looking good on the field, in the standings, and for the immediate future. Polian was hired in 1984 by GM Terry Bledsoe to be Director of Pro Personnel. When Bledsoe was fired after the 1985 season, Ralph promoted from within. To Polian (and Ralph's) credit, Polian did earn the job with his involvement in the negotiations that brought Bruce Smith in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 16 hours ago, The Jokeman said: Wilson likely would have never hired Whaley. I could also see him keeping Schwartz if Marrone still left. Meaning no Tyrod and likely more EJ Manuel and no Tyrod and when EJ fails after two or more seasons a veteran like Nick Foles. Also with no Whaley you'd think no Watkins trade up maybe we stay put and draft Beckham who we eventually trade since he doesn't like how he's used here. I think our path not be as well off as is now. Instead we'd likely be a preverbial middle of the pack team. A lot of speculation here, I will break it down way easier. This turnaround would of never happened under Mr. Wilson's watch(god rest his soul) since he would of kept Rusty around. Nothing was getting turned around until Rusty was shown the door which wouldn't of happened under Mr. Wilson's watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 2 hours ago, JohnNord said: I’m not sure if the part about Brandon is 100% accurate. On paper, I think the Bills tried moving Brandon out of football operations around the time Rex was hired in 2015, but he still was rumored to be making decisions. IMO I don’t think Russ was truly moved out until McDermott took over in 2017 and started gaining some power. If anything, McDermott seemed to understand where the problems in the organization were. He got rid of many long-time Bills employees like Scott Berchtold, the training staff (forget their names) and several others. I also think he used the autonomy with The Pegulas to ensure that Russ didn’t interfere with any football decision. This is where you stopped seeing Russ Brandon in the draft room. I think that McDermott won the power struggle with Whaley which resulted in DW leaving after the 2017 draft, but I don't believe that the house cleaning of the scouting/player personnel staff took place until after Beane took over. I think Beane had that power, but I think that how much he could spend on assistant coaches, scouts, etc was still set higher up the corporate food chain, ie Brandon or his bean counters. Brandon was fired in May 2018 IIRC; the Bills (McDermott and Beane) remade (ie, improved) the entire offensive coaching staff except for Daboll (who was hired in 2018), including bringing in Dorsey to help Allen, and seriously upgraded the WR corps going into 2019. That all suggests to me that there was a major change between the spring of 2018 and the spring of 2019, and the major change in the Bills organization during that time was the firing of Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan619 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 7:58 PM, JetsFan20 said: How much of an effect has the new ownership had on the organization? Do you think Ralph would have hired McDermott and Beane and the results would be similar? While I appreciate RW and tried to remain hopeful when it was happening, they were definitely stuck in neutral in his final years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan619 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, Livinginthepast said: RW was a great owner and there would not even be a team in Buffalo had he not done such a great job for as long as he did. Had we won any of those SB's as we should have, he would have been a legend and could have rode off into the sunset. RW's big mistake really was not relinquishing control in his later years when he had obviously gone senile. The last 15 years of his of his life, he had completely lost the plot. All those cringy moments like the "wilson said" speech etc were accompanied by awful personnel decisions on and off the football field. He interferred way too much in the day to day operations and team decisions. The benching of Flutie for Johnson in the playoffs. The hiring of the fraud Donaho and the stab in the back to the fans of Buffalo by moving the games to Toronto for that horrendous series just tainted RW in my opinion. He would have never hired McD and Beane because he would have wanted too much control of the situation. Yuck, the Toronto series was horrible. The best thing about that series is that I connected with Jim Kelly in one of the suites. It was kind of surreal but I was sitting there with my JK jersey on and in comes JK. He sat right next to me. Crazy! Edited November 12, 2020 by BillsFan619 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Say what you want about Ralph, but he would've never allowed us witness the atrocity of all red uni's at home. Besides that, I was reminded last week of the last time we played the Seahawks at "home" Ralph was still the owner and we played in Toronto. A move that was an embarrassment for all parties involved. We still would be in a never ending cycle of mediocrity if Ralph was still the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 18 hours ago, Gordio said: A lot of speculation here, I will break it down way easier. This turnaround would of never happened under Mr. Wilson's watch(god rest his soul) since he would of kept Rusty around. Nothing was getting turned around until Rusty was shown the door which wouldn't of happened under Mr. Wilson's watch. This is the ultimate bottom line. Russ Brandon was trusted with stewardship of the franchise and Mr. Wilson was not in condition to manage the Bills day-to-day. Brandon was playing GM and owner since about 2006, and the role only increased through Wilson's advanced age. There was no escaping that other than, unfortunately, new ownership. McDermott came in and once and for all convinced the Pegulas that Brandon was a cancer on the football dept. He gained the autonomy, brought in Beane, made monumental improvements to the football side, and the Bills have been a relevant NFL team ever since. If we had a 60-year old Ralph Wilson managing the day-to-day? Sure, he could probably turn it around at some point. Based on the history of the franchise though, we would need a bit of good fortune. I highly respect Ralph Wilson's place in history with this team, and happy he was able to go out, and everything turn out positive with the NRA, Pegula bux, etc, along with the philanthropic initiatives from his estate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Ralph would not have built that new fitness facility unless Erie County paid for it. He might have hired McDermott but would he let him name his own GM like he did with Beane? Doubtful. Ralph Wilson didn't have billions in the bank like the Pegulas do. (Though current issues may be limiting that reserve.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 No not at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I think the question is unfair. Ralph was who he was because he came up in a different time. Owners during his day had their hands into everything because the NFL wasnt what it is now, Al Davis coached the Raiders at one point for God's sake. Obviously a guy who would be 102 years old had he not passed away wouldnt have been good as an owner. His fabric was different than the Pegula's because it was woven at a different time under different circumstances. Time passes us all by and it did Ralph, but in my mind even asking the question is a bit insulting to his legacy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, Figster said: For building a dynasty that carried the smaller market city of Buffalo to 4 straight Superbowls? Awww come on man... Then he fired the man responsible for it over a few $$$. Edited November 12, 2020 by Meatloaf63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 As much as I like Ralph: no way he would pay the salaries required to be a contender. He was a cheap SOB (except that time he floated the Raiders a loan). But in his death, he is an amazing philanthropist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said: I think the question is unfair. Ralph was who he was because he came up in a different time. Owners during his day had their hands into everything because the NFL wasnt what it is now, Al Davis coached the Raiders at one point for God's sake. Obviously a guy who would be 102 years old had he not passed away wouldnt have been good as an owner. His fabric was different than the Pegula's because it was woven at a different time under different circumstances. Time passes us all by and it did Ralph, but in my mind even asking the question is a bit insulting to his legacy. Spot on! Some of the replies in this thread are straight up insulting. I'm just happy to have a team named the Buffalo Bills I was able to grow up with. Yeah, yeah 20yrs sucked, but without RW this team and this forum doesn't even exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Real McNasty said: Spot on! Some of the replies in this thread are straight up insulting. I'm just happy to have a team named the Buffalo Bills I was able to grow up with. Yeah, yeah 20yrs sucked, but without RW this team and this forum doesn't even exist. Guy has given us a football team, and donated millions to Western New York and somehow he is cheap because he didnt fork over the money for Bryant Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Ralph would wait till all the top HC prospects were gone.... and then he’d hire the last one who wasn’t selected to a really cheap deal for pennies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) On 11/11/2020 at 2:35 PM, Bulldog said: Fair enough - but do we actually know the process Mr. Wilson used to select what turned out to be his quality GM choice? Did he seek out help from his NFL connections or was he just lucky in plucking someone from the old-boy network that just happened to work out? I think that I am now just going back to enjoying that the team is 7 & 2 and looking good on the field, in the standings, and for the immediate future. If memory serves me correct, here’s how Ralph hired his last GM. He scanned a list of names prepared for him by Russ Brandon and didn’t recognize anyone until he came across the name “Buddy Nix” who was a scout for the Bills under John Butler. They hired Buddy. Ralph did not want to hire anyone he didn’t know to make decisions, which is why you saw Marv Levy and Russ Brandon as GM’s This sounds like a joke, but it’s actually the truth. Then you wonder why the Bills didn’t make the playoffs for 17 years 31 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: Ralph would wait till all the top HC prospects were gone.... and then he’d hire the last one who wasn’t selected to a really cheap deal for pennies... Ralph would never hire coaches. He’d allow his GM’s to make recommendations and he would approve. Based on the hires, it would seem that they preferred to not give out big contracts to head coaches: John Butler - Wade Phillips Tom Donahoe - Gregg Williams/Mularkey Marv Levy - Duck Jauron Buddy Nix - Doug Whaley Russ Brandon (by Proxy) - Doug Marrone Edited November 12, 2020 by JohnNord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts