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How did the right side of the OL fare Sunday?

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1 hour ago, eball said:

Casual fans grading OL play is one of the more amusing aspects of this (and any) football forum, because I think 90% of us (myself included) have no idea what we are talking about. 

Most are likely just looking at did they get beat or pushed back in terms of negative plays. The problem here is determining why they were beat. Sometimes it's the protection call, which can be multiple people's faults. QB plays a huge role in OL performance by making line calls and getting the offense out of bad play calls and into good ones based on the defense. A lot of times OL miss blocks simply because they're thinking too much and don't know exactly who or where they're blocking. We can't determine what actually causes the blown block all the time but we can make a decent guess.

 

In Ford's case I'm willing to bet it's mostly mental right now. He's very talented. 

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9 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Unfortunately, I think it starts with Morse.  He’s a general at Center and a great pass blocker but I don’t think he’s average at run blocking.  
 

Dawkins in the best overall lineman in both facets and is paid like it.  

 

I think that Cody Ford does have the potential to be a good run-block and overall a good guard but he has a lot to prove.  
 

The rest for the crew - Feliciano, Spain, Winters and Williams, I see as pretty average starters.

 

Of course, I might be grading a little hard but we should see over the next few weeks

 

I agree with you totally on Morse and Dawkins. I think Daryl Williams at his best in Carolina was way better than an average starter. He was deservedly a 2nd team all pro and in that top group of right tackles. He then had the injury and came back and they messed about with his position a lot but if (and I accept it is an IF) he can get back to that form he is better than average. He was off to a solid start on Sunday. And Quinton Spain is one of the most underrated guards in the league and players on the Bills. 0 sacks given up last year and I don't even think he played his best football last year. He looked good on Sunday and I am hopeful year 2 in the system he is going to take his game back to the dominant level he reached for a couple of years in Tennessee.

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54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I watched the game again last night.  Ford missed one block.  Other than that he did fine in pass protection.  The entire line struggled gettingbthe run game going.


 

I will add - the gameplan was designed to specifically attack the Jets defensive weaknesses and not necessarily the Bills O-line strengths.  The gameplan called for attacking the Jets secondary and using both RPO options and QB run options in the run game because the Jets D struggled against that.  Those plays along with the Jet sweeps (count as passes) accounted for the majority of the rushing yards.  They are also slower developing plays were the O-Line does not fire out and attack the defensive line, but takes them where they are going and allows the QB to read and react - not attack.

 

I think the strength of Ford and Williams will be in straight 1:1 blocking/Mauling, but that also plays into the strength of the Jets defense.  I want to see what this line can do against a different defensive gameplan and maybe one they can attack with the strength of the line.  I anticipate Moss having some nice runs up the middle as the Dolphins have to figure out how to stop both the running attack of the RBs and the QB.  They did a poor job against NE and I think the Bills will exploit many of the same things we saw NE do.  The biggest difference is I think Allen trusts his WR and TEs more than Cam did and therefore I think they can also get yardage in the passing game if Miami stacks the box more in this game.

 

I think just like last year - there will be weeks where the o-line looks dominate and weeks where they look like they can not get a push at all.  It will be specific to teams and gameplans because that is how this OC works.  He is not going to take and stick to our strengths - he is designing gameplans to exploit weaknesses and that is new for us as fans and can sometimes be frustrating.

Edited by Rochesterfan
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10 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I will add - the gameplan was designed to specifically attack the Jets defensive weaknesses and not necessarily the Bills O-line strengths.  The gameplan called for attacking the Jets secondary and using both RPO options and QB run options in the run game because the Jets D struggled against that.  Those plays along with the Jet sweeps (count as passes) accounted for the majority of the rushing yards.  They are also slower developing plays were the O-Line does not fire out and attack the defensive line, but takes them where they are going and allows the QB to read and react - not attack.

 

I think the strength of Ford and Williams will be in straight 1:1 blocking/Mauling, but that also plays into the strength of the Jets defense.  I want to see what this line can do against a different defensive gameplan and maybe one they can attack with the strength of the line.  I anticipate Moss having some nice runs up the middle as the Dolphins have to figure out how to stop both the running attack of the RBs and the QB.  They did a poor job against NE and I think the Bills will exploit many of the same things we saw NE do.  The biggest difference is I think Allen trusts his WR and TEs more than Cam did and therefore I think they can also get yardage in the passing game if Miami stacks the box more in this game.

 

 

This is a really good point actually and not one I had fully thought about. The Bills gameplan specifically did not include a lot of the sort of run blocking assignments that one expects play to Cody Ford's strengths. I suspect the Bills knew they were not gonna have a lot of success with the traditional run game and ran it just enough to make the Jets carry on respecting it. Doesn't mean they will be happy with the output but it is definitely worth bearing in mind. They will attack the 'Fins differently, that said.... they also had horrible trouble with Cam running on Sunday so I expect the Bills to use Allen's legs again.

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12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ford is just not good.

 

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

When Feliciano returns i'de try and trade Ford for a 3rd round pick before his value drops.

 

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

In Ford's case I'm willing to bet it's mostly mental right now. He's very talented. 

 

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14 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Ford is a better RT than G. Unfortunately we currently have better RTs on the roster. He can still be a productive lineman but don't your breath if you're expecting Pro Bowl play. We went shopping for a Shelby GT and left the dealership with an Explorer.

It was one game...

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14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I would leave them where they are. Constantly switching Ford between tackle and guard is not going to help his development.  I said months ago I think Williams is the best right tackle on the roster but that if they moved Ford inside it was hard to go back. They have to stick to their guns IMO.

I think you're right about this.  Guys CAN and DO move back and forth, but they are veterans.  Any young guy in the league needs to learn to survive and thrive at one position; that's when flipping to a related position makes more sense.  So what they've done with Ford isn't ideal.

 

However, I still think many people here are underrating Ford.   He's a big-time talent, and pretty much all offensive linemen need time to learn to play in the league.  I think he will prove more difficult to move out of the starting lineup than people here expect. 

 

For different reasons, around here Ford is the whipping boy on the offensive line that Murphy has been on the defensive line.  All of a sudden people are saying, "Wow, Murphy is better than I thought."  I think people will be saying those things about Ford a year from now, or less.  

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12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ford is just not good.

Time to trade in that Ford.

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15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're right about this.  Guys CAN and DO move back and forth, but they are veterans.  Any young guy in the league needs to learn to survive and thrive at one position; that's when flipping to a related position makes more sense.  So what they've done with Ford isn't ideal.

 

However, I still think many people here are underrating Ford.   He's a big-time talent, and pretty much all offensive linemen need time to learn to play in the league.  I think he will prove more difficult to move out of the starting lineup than people here expect. 

 

For different reasons, around here Ford is the whipping boy on the offensive line that Murphy has been on the defensive line.  All of a sudden people are saying, "Wow, Murphy is better than I thought."  I think people will be saying those things about Ford a year from now, or less.  

 

To be clear I liked Ford a lot at the draft and I certainly am not whipping him. I think the Bills have to decide where they are playing him though. Now they have gone to guard I think they have to stick to it.

 

And Murphy isn't so much better than I thought.... he remains what I thought. And is overpaid for it. But I totally understand the rationale for him being here. He is overpaid for what he does but the Bills are in win now mode so I can understand it.

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13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

When we had success running the ball (which wasnt often) it was behind Ford I thought

I think Ford, and the O line in general, will look much better when Daboll draws up a gameplay focussing on the run game. I think we had a pretty vanilla run game plan against the Jets, and primarily focussed on succeeding with the pass. Hopefully we see a power run game behind this line very soon.

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Both body type, and body of work suggest that Ford should be at RG and Williams at RT.

 

Just my opinion (such as it is).

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22 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Pass blocking seemed solid all across the line.. but running the ball seemed to be the biggest issue for us.. Jets do have a great run defense though.. one of the best in the NFL believe it or not.. one of the few things they do well..

Still, it remains quite the issue. And give credit to Daboll, the runs were not obvious calls until to run out the clock.... and yet the holes weren't there. Crazy how good some of the pass blocking was though. I think the Bills will remain a team that setting up the pass opens up the running game, and not the typical other way around.

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No push in the run game pretty much across the whole line. 

 

Williams gave up a few pressures from the right side, and while it's only 1 game Ford seemed to get better push in the run game at T last season. 

 

Dawkins looks to have taken another step. He is a great athlete for a man his size

 

Morse is a very solid anchor in pass protection

Edited by Buffalo716
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7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're right about this.  Guys CAN and DO move back and forth, but they are veterans.  Any young guy in the league needs to learn to survive and thrive at one position; that's when flipping to a related position makes more sense.  So what they've done with Ford isn't ideal.

 

However, I still think many people here are underrating Ford.   He's a big-time talent, and pretty much all offensive linemen need time to learn to play in the league.  I think he will prove more difficult to move out of the starting lineup than people here expect. 

 

For different reasons, around here Ford is the whipping boy on the offensive line that Murphy has been on the defensive line.  All of a sudden people are saying, "Wow, Murphy is better than I thought."  I think people will be saying those things about Ford a year from now, or less.  

Totally agree, it is amazing to me so many think there is no learning curve for 1st and 2nd year players, the learning never stops for players who are considered quality players at any position. 
 

Go Bills!!!

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I watched the game twice.  For some reason I saw a lot different.  The right side of the O-line I thought was really impressive.  In totality the run blocking was not that great except on the pulling.  But even then not as sharp as usual.  Ford looked just fine.  Not sure about all the overreactions.  Honestly I am more worried about Spain.  Morse is great at pass blocking.  He gets blown up in the run game though.  Feliciano I think moves to the left side.  If Williams plays like this for a few games the Bills might look to extend him.  Also if heaven forbid an accident happened to Morse and Feliciano went in at Center I wouldn't be surprised to see our run game improve.

 

Just my observations.  I do not claim to be a pro.  

 

Side note I think McDermott will want to "establish the line of scrimmage" and we may be over aggressive at running the ball this week.  

 

All in all I am not the least bit concerned.  I think we will run the ball well this season.

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11 minutes ago, Fred Slacks said:

I watched the game twice.  For some reason I saw a lot different.  The right side of the O-line I thought was really impressive.  In totality the run blocking was not that great except on the pulling.  But even then not as sharp as usual.  Ford looked just fine.  Not sure about all the overreactions.  Honestly I am more worried about Spain.  Morse is great at pass blocking.  He gets blown up in the run game though.  Feliciano I think moves to the left side.  If Williams plays like this for a few games the Bills might look to extend him.  Also if heaven forbid an accident happened to Morse and Feliciano went in at Center I wouldn't be surprised to see our run game improve.

 

Just my observations.  I do not claim to be a pro.  

 

Side note I think McDermott will want to "establish the line of scrimmage" and we may be over aggressive at running the ball this week.  

 

All in all I am not the least bit concerned.  I think we will run the ball well this season.

This is what I saw when I re watrched the game

 

You know its interesting because usually the run bloicking is ahead of the pass blocking at the beginning of the year......but our OL was SOLID in pass protection.

 

We didnt run the ball much at all because the passing game was working so well

 

I would keep this group exactly as it is

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https://theathletic.com/2074936/2020/09/17/bills-all-22-review-why-josh-allen-was-so-dynamic-and-full-of-progress-vs-jets/

In Joe Buscaglia's All-22 Review of Sunday's game, he seems to disagree with those on here who said the right side of the line didn't play well.

He has high praise for both Ford and Williams:

 

Almost one year after his last guard stint, Ford turned in one of his best performances as a pro. It’s not a case of confirmation bias, either. Ford played with power in the run game, he controlled defenders in pass protection and, best yet, he didn’t have to worry about the speed threat to the outside of him. It wasn’t a perfect game for Ford, as he had a few bad reps that led to some negative plays. However, that’s probably more to do with rust on the interior than it is his playing ability. Ford flashed massive potential against a good Jets defensive line. He was more impressive and more comfortable in one start at guard than he ever was at right tackle last year. As long as this level of play continues, the Bills should keep their second-year player at right guard — even when Jon Feliciano is healthy.


However, the real revelation was Williams. I’ll admit, I was not optimistic about Williams’ chances. Last year in Carolina, he looked heavy-footed and unbalanced and seemed like his best days were past him. While it isn’t time to call it a full-fledged comeback just yet, Williams was easily the most impressive Bills player on Sunday outside of Allen. He was impenetrable in the first half and easily engulfed pass-rushing attempts. His foot quickness wasn’t even close to an issue, as he always looked in control. Williams packed a punch and knocked a couple of defenders off balance when chipping in on a combination block on running plays. He could also move the defender the way he wanted to open up running lanes.


However, it’s wise to show a little more caution with Williams than Ford because of the competition. The Jets’ interior defensive line is a strength, so Ford’s performance is impressive, but the Jets don’t have quality edge rushers, which could have influenced Williams’ performance. Regardless, his showing was so good that fans should be optimistic about what he’ll do against better pass rushers in Miami. If Williams keeps up this level of play, the Bills would have no reason to change the offensive line’s right side at all. If that were the case, Feliciano’s potential spot on the offensive line could be at left guard and replace the usual average performing Quinton Spain.

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15 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

THIS


You could say that about the majority of the football analysis here and on social media - but it is what makes sports fun.

 

One thing you can dispute is numbers though.  The Bills running back average less than 3 YPC on Sunday.  Moss was averaging about 1 YPC.  I don’t think that’s on the running backs either.   They noticeably seemed to have a hard time opening any holes up front against a good Jets defense.  It could be the case NYJ just being good, or a Buffalo line that struggled to run block.  We’ll know more after this week

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I’d like to know what the coaches thought of their performances. They are the ones that know what they want accomplished on any given play.

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