PPP Under Fire

[Numark3]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  The effort is too intense by trolls here for ignore to work very long.  If this is like most boards there is no limit to the number of sock accounts one person can have and this is what trolls will resort to.  Pretty soon people that count on ignore will become frustrated when a new personality penetrates their shields every hour.  Getting rid of the socks so a person has to stand on one account will automatically make them post better content if they wish to be read.  

they may eventually get bored if they go that route.  But it might be worth a try

[3rdnlng]

4 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

I know so little about both of those games I don’t get it lol

Golf is a game in which the player regulates himself and it is required of him to report any violations of the rules by himself or others. Roller Derby is like "professional" wrestling and allows for such genteel actions as eye gouging and ear biting. 

[meazza]

14 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, we saw the mods randomly wander down here a while ago and cause some havoc on stuff that was seemingly par the course for this arena so I’m not entirely sure I have confidence in the current stable of mods to be able to strike a balance of patrolling these waters without shutting down the docks. 

Exactly.  

[Numark3]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

Golf is a game in which the player regulates himself and it is required of him to report any violations of the rules by himself or others. Roller Derby is like "professional" wrestling and allows for such genteel actions as eye gouging and ear biting. 

heh.  Well if high volume posters like you, dr, Buffalo gal, b-men, and yes, even Tibs, would follow an agreed-upon list, then I’d be down and I think it is the best realistic option

[Buffalo_Gal]

13 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, we saw the mods randomly wander down here a while ago and cause some havoc on stuff that was seemingly par the course for this arena so I’m not entirely sure I have confidence in the current stable of mods to be able to strike a balance of patrolling these waters without shutting down the docks. 

IMO it would be difficult. The regulars here know who is a troll or a troublemaker. If you are not reading or participating in PPP fairly regularly, it is difficult to know the players.  What happens is like in football, it is not the instigator that gets caught, it is the one responding to the instigator.

FWIW, I have read a lot of people lumped in with the likes of Gary.  I realize all ignore lists are personal, and it could be due to a terrible exchange with someone, but while I have a large ignore list (IMO) someone like Alf is not on it. I may disagree with him politically, but he is not a troll, troublemaker, or mean.
 

[shoshin]

13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The effort is too intense by trolls here for ignore to work very long.  If this is like most boards there is no limit to the number of sock accounts one person can have and this is what trolls will resort to.  Pretty soon people that count on ignore will become frustrated when a new personality penetrates their shields every hour.  Getting rid of the socks so a person has to stand on one account will automatically make them post better content if they wish to be read.  

 

Guess I'm not leaving this thread so soon after all! 

 

I'd say let's all post under our real names. That would change the entire tone online generally. 

[meazza]

Can we just all be ***** adults and ignore the trolls? Do we really all need to agree?  Do any of you start talking to the random nut in the subway or do you just stare down at your phone and wait for it to go away ?

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Guess I'm not leaving this thread so soon after all! 

 

I'd say let's all post under our real names. That would change the entire tone online generally. 

This isn’t Facebook. 

[Reality Check]

 

[Numark3]

1 minute ago, meazza said:

Can we just all be ***** adults and ignore the trolls? Do we really all need to agree?  Do any of you start talking to the random nut in the subway or do you just stare down at your phone and wait for it to go away ?

lol this is also fair.  I have never ignored anyone but I guess I’ll start with a few 

[whatdrought]

7 minutes ago, meazza said:

Can we just all be ***** adults and ignore the trolls? Do we really all need to agree?  Do any of you start talking to the random nut in the subway or do you just stare down at your phone and wait for it to go away ?

This isn’t Facebook. 

Kind of my take on it. If personal discernment isn’t capable of cutting out the trash, you probably aren’t going to add much to this board to begin with. If newbies need a list to figure out where the asylum escapees are, they might be one themselves. I think there’s a difference between a helpful “hey, I see you’re new and trying to debate drool face over there- just so you know, he doesn’t have a history of honest intellectual debate and most around here ignore his schtick, choose for yourself.” And “here’s a list of those who you should ignore according to the cognoscenti.” 
 

I’ve been here a couple years and wouldn’t feel comfortable telling newbies who should and shouldn’t be on their ignore list, but I’m fine mentioning that certain posters have questionable track records. 

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I guess I've graduated to placement on the Global Ignore List. That's fine with me.

In my defense: I don't post annoying insults. And I find those annoying insult posters tedious. We get it. It's not that amusing.

I generally try to engage with arguments on the merits. If this thread is about "Don't mess with my echo chamber," perhaps folks need to ask themselves why they take comfort by being in an echo chamber. 

 

It's not about political affiliation, it's about bad faith engagement.

 

We have a handful of posters who pollute the board with mindless spam that isn't intended to advance or explain a point of view, but simply to obstruct, annoy, or inflame.

 

Left leaning posters are generally treated with the same level of respect they show the board. There are a couple righties here that are quick to pounce, but for the most part if you come looking for a good faith debate you're going to find it. If you're looking to post baseless variations of "orange man bad" and "you're a racist" you'll likely be treated accordingly.

 

I can't think of one legitimate poster who's ever received the Tibs treatment on account of having liberal views.

[New Improved DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

 

I can't think of one legitimate poster who's ever received the Tibs treatment on account of having liberal views.

 

While several right-leaning ones have.  Anyone remember Rich in Ohio?  No?  Exactly.

 

I'll say it again: the board's not anti-liberal.  It's anti-schmuck.  Stop being one.

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

Guess I'm not leaving this thread so soon after all! 

 

I'd say let's all post under our real names. That would change the entire tone online generally. 

 

The sad truth of this statement is that cancel culture has effectively suppressed free speech to the point that people are afraid to speak their minds for fear of retribution.

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, New Improved DC Tom said:

 

While several right-leaning ones have.  Anyone remember Rich in Ohio?  No?  Exactly.

 

I'll say it again: the board's not anti-liberal.  It's anti-schmuck.  Stop being one.

Hi Tom 

[Deranged Rhino]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

I already pasted 20 pages of your agenda...

 

Then you should be able to define and describe that agenda if you posted it, so far you have done nothing but say "agenda" and then bungle its definition. It's funny because in both links you quoted the purpose oh those posts are stated clearly and up front... you can do it. Show your work. You say I'm pushing an agenda but have yet to say what that agenda is...

 

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

I’ll pass. 

 

Funny when liars get shown to be liars, then are asked to back up their words, they all give the same weak ass response...  

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

Guess I'm not leaving this thread so soon after all! 

 

I'd say let's all post under our real names. That would change the entire tone online generally. 

  The trouble is that there are nuts of all stripes out there that would attempt to disrupt a real person's life.  Politics is a very sensitive subject for many people.  While we would hope that everyone would be mature who posts here that simply will not happen.  Having one account/personalilty here would provide reinforcement in terms of using privileges wisely.  No different than raising a kid to realize that there are consequences to bad choices/actions.  

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

 

Guess I'm not leaving this thread so soon after all! 

 

I'd say let's all post under our real names. That would change the entire tone online generally. 

 

Posting under ones real name with the current cancel culture craze would be problematic at best.

 

Just ignore the posters that bring absolutely nothing to this board (there's a bunch on the left & a couple on the right and at least 1 of them from the right is nearly the worst offender of all).  As for those like Section 8 that can bring legitimate discussion but tries hard to get under people's skin & pretty sure is one of the worst run to the mods offenders when somebody does react, probably best to ignore them as well.  Eventually they'll leave or stop doing the things that cause themselves to come across as putzes. Either way, that's a win.

 

Don't agree with those saying posters like you, Alf, or Frankish Reich should be on ignore.  If you're trying to have a legit discussion, that should be encouraged; and you and they (and 1 or 2 others on the recommended ignore lists as well) do come across as wanting to legitimately discuss current events.  But really strongly disagree with your take that getting rid of PPP would make this site better.  And, if you feel that strongly about how toxic this forum is, you probably would be best advised to not come down here into the dungeon.  Life is too short to intentionally annoy yourself.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Taro T
Friggin' autocorrect

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, meazza said:

Biden won’t win so you’re done for good ?

 

And no one will miss him, or even remember he was ever here. What a legacy.

[Q-baby!]

3 hours ago, Niagara said:

Updated "var met list"

billstime
tiberius
q-baby
gregpersons
penfield45
billsmisery
tbbills
kemp
sectionc3
trumpvirus
gobuffalo716
thefrankishreich
reality check
transplantbillsfan
th3

wAcKy ZeBrA

#3 baby! 

[SectionC3]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Posting under ones real name with the current cancel culture craze would be problematic at best.

 

Just ignore the posters that bring absolutely nothing to this board (there's a bunch on the left & a couple on the right and at least 1 of them from the right is nearly the worst offender of all).  As for those like Section 8 that can bring legitimate discussion but tries hard to get under people's skin & pretty sure is one of the worst run to the mods offenders when somebody does react, probably best to ignore them as well.  Eventually they'll leave or stop doing the things that cause themselves to come across as putzes. Either way, that's a win.

 

Don't agree with those saying posters like you, Alf, or Frankish Reich should be on ignore.  If you're trying to have a legit discussion, that should be encouraged; and you and they (and 1 or 2 others on the recommended ignore lists as well) do come across as wanting to legitimately discuss current events.  But really strongly disagree with your take that getting rid of PPP would make this site better.  And, if you feel that strongly about how toxic this forum is, you probably would be best advised to not come down here into the dungeon.  Life is too short to intentionally annoy yourself.

 

It’s interesting how some describe the place as a “dungeon” or a “hell hole” and also get annoyed when somebody posts something with a viewpoint different from their own.  Cancel culture, anyone?

[The Frankish Reich]

29 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Posting under ones real name with the current cancel culture craze would be problematic at best.

 

Just ignore the posters that bring absolutely nothing to this board (there's a bunch on the left & a couple on the right and at least 1 of them from the right is nearly the worst offender of all).  As for those like Section 8 that can bring legitimate discussion but tries hard to get under people's skin & pretty sure is one of the worst run to the mods offenders when somebody does react, probably best to ignore them as well.  Eventually they'll leave or stop doing the things that cause themselves to come across as putzes. Either way, that's a win.

 

Don't agree with those saying posters like you, Alf, or Frankish Reich should be on ignore.  If you're trying to have a legit discussion, that should be encouraged; and you and they (and 1 or 2 others on the recommended ignore lists as well) do come across as wanting to legitimately discuss current events.  But really strongly disagree with your take that getting rid of PPP would make this site better.  And, if you feel that strongly about how toxic this forum is, you probably would be best advised to not come down here into the dungeon.  Life is too short to intentionally annoy yourself.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Why am I a relative newcomer to PPP? I don't think I'll convince anyone of anything. I am legitimately trying to understand why some people (many, not all, clearly intelligent) believe certain things or take certain positions. I don't think it's productive to resort to silly insults, but even more so, those silly insult posters are just plain boring, like a particularly obnoxious little kid who keeps interrupting an adult conversation with his newfound ability to make fart sounds.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Thank you. I appreciate it. Why am I a relative newcomer to PPP? I don't think I'll convince anyone of anything. I am legitimately trying to understand why some people (many, not all, clearly intelligent) believe certain things or take certain positions. I don't think it's productive to resort to silly insults, but even more so, those silly insult posters are just plain boring, like a particularly obnoxious little kid who keeps interrupting an adult conversation with his newfound ability to make fart sounds.

 

It's a combination of two factors: tradition and history. 

 

Tradition: "PPP is a tough board for tough people. Have a thick skin or don't bother coming around here." That's still the ethos of this place. If you can back up your statements with opinion, facts, and adult conversations then you will have no problem regardless of your politics. If you can't, then you get smashed. This has been the tradition in PPP because of the history below.

 

History: This board has long had a hands off mod approach. It was up to the regular posters to deal with any trolls on their own. The chosen manner for this was through group mocking and shaming done in jest. In years past, the trolling was much more "fun" than personal. There was less malice and anger, and more ball busting and good natured mocking. But post 2017, a new batch of trolls showed up who weren't regular posters posing as someone else for laughs or to get a rise out of someone -- they were bomb throwers here to shite up the boards like pelicans without any attempt at humor or conversation. 

 

I've taken more sustained and constant heat and mocking than anyone else down here for the past several years, but I'm still here. Still laughing and smiling and posting because I understand these two points. 

[The Frankish Reich]

12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It's a combination of two factors: tradition and history. 

 

Tradition: "PPP is a tough board for tough people. Have a thick skin or don't bother coming around here." That's still the ethos of this place. If you can back up your statements with opinion, facts, and adult conversations then you will have no problem regardless of your politics. If you can't, then you get smashed. This has been the tradition in PPP because of the history below.

 

History: This board has long had a hands off mod approach. It was up to the regular posters to deal with any trolls on their own. The chosen manner for this was through group mocking and shaming done in jest. In years past, the trolling was much more "fun" than personal. There was less malice and anger, and more ball busting and good natured mocking. But post 2017, a new batch of trolls showed up who weren't regular posters posing as someone else for laughs or to get a rise out of someone -- they were bomb throwers here to shite up the boards like pelicans without any attempt at humor or conversation. 

 

I've taken more sustained and constant heat and mocking than anyone else down here for the past several years, but I'm still here. Still laughing and smiling and posting because I understand these two points. 

Thanks. I appreciate the background. 

[meazza]

19 people on my ignore list and counting.

[snafu]

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I think a mob sanctioned ignore list is a questionable solution that leads to a slippery slope, but that’s just my take. 

 

I agree. 

Maybe good in theory, but ultimately I’m not about overt group rejection — especially for a mainly “public” forum. 

 

To me, it is about policing one’s self. I succeed a lot and sometimes I fail. I’ve tried to engage some people on that budding “universal ignore” list. If they replied with nothing of substance, then I had my quick answer. Now when I see they’ve posted something, I slide by. I do that with some “conservative” posters, too.  

 

I think people need to ask themselves WHY they come over here. It shouldn’t mainly be to piss off people with opposing political views. 

 

The bottom line line is that people should act (relatively) mature around here. And they should not reply to immature B.S.  If someone on an individual basis needs to use the ignore function to make that easier to accomplish, then that’s good. 

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, meazza said:

19 people on my ignore list and counting.

Inspired by Jorge Luis Borges, I see no reason to stop at 19. I will place every other poster on my ignore list, and will therefore be able to carry on with my redefined version of a conversation, exchanging ideas with only those worthy of my attention.

[meazza]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Inspired by Jorge Luis Borges, I see no reason to stop at 19. I will place every other poster on my ignore list, and will therefore be able to carry on with my redefined version of a conversation, exchanging ideas with only those worthy of my attention.

 

I wasn't referring to you by the way.  

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, meazza said:

 

I wasn't referring to you by the way.  

 

 

 

I know. I just couldn't resist having a little fun with the idea: "what's the logical end of all this ignoring stuff" ...

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

I know. I just couldn't resist having a little fun with the idea: "what's the logical end of all this ignoring stuff" ...

 

The logical end is where we are now as a country: a bifurcated reality wherein half the people believe "their" narrative, and the other half believe their own. Each has their own echo chambers and "facts" to support their beliefs -- but in the end only one reality can be real. 

 

It's not dangerous at all.   

[Niagara]

7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The logical end is where we are now as a country: a bifurcated reality wherein half the people believe "their" narrative, and the other half believe their own. Each has their own echo chambers and "facts" to support their beliefs -- but in the end only one reality can be real. 

 

It's not dangerous at all.   

The side that wins the war, gets to write the history book. The irony is I think the DNC Antifa reality is far more similar to the Nazi reality than the Trump/RNC Nationalist reality is. That is very dangerous.

[ziltoid]

This place has been a decent source of Covaids information during the pandemic.  I've been following that thread for a while now.  The rest of PPP is a mess.  I don't get the this tribe vs. that tribe stuff.

 

I'd be fine if it all shutdown and went away.  Surprised the owner of the site keeps this around.

[meazza]

3 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

This place has been a decent source of Covaids information during the pandemic.  I've been following that thread for a while now.  The rest of PPP is a mess.  I don't get the this tribe vs. that tribe stuff.

 

I'd be fine if it all shutdown and went away.  Surprised the owner of the site keeps this around.

 

This board has a long history.  A lot of the members know each other from tailgates.  

 

With the influx of trolls, i'm under the impression that some of the posters aren't even bills fans!  That's right, i'm talking about you @Chef Jim

[Niagara]

4 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

I'd be fine if it all shutdown and went away.  Surprised the owner of the site keeps this around.

I would it guess it involves traffic.

429,645 stadium wall
786,864 PPP

 

Notice change happened in 2017 when Trump took office. The left could not swallow it, like the right had to swallow Obama. Left declared war on the right, and it is ongoing still. Game on.

[snafu]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

It’s interesting how some describe the place as a “dungeon” or a “hell hole” and also get annoyed when somebody posts something with a viewpoint different from their own.  Cancel culture, anyone?

 

I think you're getting "tone" and "substance" mixed up with a majority of people who post here.  Tone is a major triggering factor for most.  The other problem is when someone is spamming the same message and refusing to engage in any sort of discussion over it. The "cancel" reaction is because of behavior more than subject matter.

 

Odd that people can control themselves on the main board and off-the-wall, but come here and act completely different.

 

 

 

 

[Uncle Joe]

5 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

This place has been a decent source of Covaids information during the pandemic.  I've been following that thread for a while now.  The rest of PPP is a mess.  I don't get the this tribe vs. that tribe stuff.

 

I'd be fine if it all shutdown and went away.  Surprised the owner of the site keeps this around.

I lurked here here for years before posting. I like civil discourse and can learn from others with concurring and opposing viewpoints.
What I like is that you have people from all over this country with information and experiences that can offer valuable insight.
Kay Adams is an example of a discipline I might not agree with but I value her (I think) opinion.
Then there are others that easily make the ignore list within 2 posts. 

[ziltoid]

10 minutes ago, meazza said:

 

This board has a long history.  A lot of the members know each other from tailgates.  

 

With the influx of trolls, i'm under the impression that some of the posters aren't even bills fans!  That's right, i'm talking about you @Chef Jim

As with all things in the Trump era, dialogue is much more contentious.  It all just gets tiresome.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by BeerLeagueHockey

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The logical end is where we are now as a country: a bifurcated reality wherein half the people believe "their" narrative, and the other half believe their own. Each has their own echo chambers and "facts" to support their beliefs -- but in the end only one reality can be real. 

 

It's not dangerous at all.   

 

And THAT is where having legit conversations with people from across the aisle is so important.  If all you ever talk to are people in your echo chamber it ends up actually becoming a wind tunnel spinning everything into whackadoodle territory.

 

Prior to 2009, this place was good for that as there were many legit posters from both sides of the aisle & the whackadoodles cut both ways as well & people jumped on "their own" bad apples as hard and often harder than the other side did.  

 

After the ACA became law many of the reasonable lefties either left (people like Coli), shifted their takes (like you), or drifted towards the deep end themselves (JA and his myriad personas), leaving the Doc Browns on a fairly lonely island.  Not sure whether that was correlation or causation, but the place has never been the same.

 

Don't know what the answer is to get more lefties here that want to have legit discussions.  Hoping it'll be as simple as engaging them and ignoring the sock puppets.  Easier said than done it would seem.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Taro T

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, snafu said:

 

I think you're getting "tone" and "substance" mixed up with a majority of people who post here.  Tone is a major triggering factor for most.  The other problem is when someone is spamming the same message and refusing to engage in any sort of discussion over it. The "cancel" reaction is because of behavior more than subject matter.

 

Odd that people can control themselves on the main board and off-the-wall, but come here and act completely different.

 

Which, for me, is one of the biggest reasons to keep PPP around despite the flaws. If it goes away, that self control will as well. Especially during this election cycle. It would bring a good chunk of this to TSW and OTW -- which would ruin those boards for the many, many posters who go there for an escape from exactly that kind of stuff. 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I don't think it's productive to resort to silly insults, but even more so, those silly insult posters are just plain boring, like a particularly obnoxious little kid who keeps interrupting an adult conversation with his newfound ability to make fart sounds.

 

Hey man, let's not bring down the value of fart sounds.

Otherwise, you WILL make my ignore list.

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I think you're getting "tone" and "substance" mixed up with a majority of people who post here.  Tone is a major triggering factor for most.  The other problem is when someone is spamming the same message and refusing to engage in any sort of discussion over it. The "cancel" reaction is because of behavior more than subject matter.

 

Odd that people can control themselves on the main board and off-the-wall, but come here and act completely different.

 

 

 

 

You have a point about the severability of those concepts, but I wouldn’t apply it here.  Somehow a threat about a recent Joe Biden speech is generally and derisively characterized as spam, but a long-running thread about Joe Biden’s gaffes is appropriate.  

 

The reality is that this board is like much of the rest of our society.  We select news outlets based on the message that we want to hear (or, in my case, don’t want to hear, which is anything from Fox News or OAN).  Many here — most of whom are right of center — take that approach with respect to content and conversation.