JaCrispy Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) I like most of Trump’s policies...I just feel he is a horrible communicator...these were fairly easy questions, and he’s got a pretty good record to defend...but too often, he loses focus, wanders off on a tangent, and doesn’t answer the question imo...very aggravating... Edited September 30, 2020 by JaCrispy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Backintheday544 said: Another interesting part. Trump said he didn't pay $750 in taxes and will be releasing them soon. If you find Trump’s taxes interesting... You might be a low information voter. /Foxworthy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBUFFALO716 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said: The debate reflected the current state of politics in this country. We shouldn’t be surprised. It was exhausting bc that’s what politics is now. Trump wins. He was definitely stronger and provided sincere concrete answers with examples. Biden stumbled, mumbled, and bumbled around. He did admit however, that he would send billions of dollars to foreign countries for ‘climate change’ reasons. That’s ALL I need to vote for trump. Trump was a complete joke - he knows he’s phucks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Cool what was Trumps Healthcare plan. That was a really interesting part too. He didn't really come up with any plan. We had 4 years of a plan is coming. Glad Wallace called out the Executive Order was symbolic and means nothing while the adminstration is trying to take away coverage for pre-existing conditions in California v Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: A moderator is needed to keep the people following the same rules. When one person keeps breaking those rules, they need to stop in. Imagine a Bills - Pats game. Refs keep calling the Pats who breaking the rules (I know that would never happen). You wouldn't expect the refs to start calling penalties on the Bills to make it even. Did you see my posts as a call for no moderator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Warcodered said: Cool what was Trumps Healthcare plan. 1) He mentioned increasing pharmaceutical competition by allowing lower priced foreign drugs to be sold in the country. 2) He also took away the individual mandate from ObamaCare. 3) He also mentioned how he believes pre-existing conditions should still be covered. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joe Miner said: If you find Trump’s taxes interesting... You might be a low information voter. /Foxworthy I'm a CPA and Tax attorney, so I love taxes! Romney's are the coolest: https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Huh, interesting... this is on Biden's website. Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan: (1) the United States urgently needs to embrace greater ambition on an epic scale to meet the scope of this challenge, and (2) our environment and our economy are completely and totally connected. He said tonight he does not support the Green New Deal, he supports the Biden Plan. So, is that just the Green New Deal in Biden-speak? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Did you see my posts as a call for no moderator? No, I saw it as you not understanding what a moderator does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Another interesting part. Trump said he didn't pay $750 in taxes and will be releasing them soon. He did deny paying $750 in 2016 and 2017, but he said he'd be releasing them "when they're ready." Which seems to mean "never." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Late to this thread tonight ... overall thoughts: * The performances from both won’t move the needle one way or the other — which is a win for Trump. * Trump had better energy and pace, but missed some layups and got in his own way in spots. Joe wasn’t great, he came in third to Wallace in terms of winners, but he also survived til the end which itself is an accomplishment. * Both sides will be able to spin some gems from short cut ups of some of it, but Trump had the better tv moments. Theres already talk of canceling the next two debates. They can’t. It’ll make Joe look super weak. He needs a rebound more than Trump after tonight even if both stumbled. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: I'm a CPA and Tax attorney, so I love taxes! Romney's are the coolest: https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns So I'm interested in your opinion here. Why would the Trump Org pay a consulting fee to Ivanka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Another interesting part. Trump said he didn't pay $750 in taxes and will be releasing them soon. If we had a dollar for every time he said he would release his taxes soon... As for the debate, Trump was every bit the embarassment that he has always been. Mr Alpha-male, shouting down everyone, spewing his tired lines, over and over. Bidnen was steady. This isn't Trump vs Biden, but "Vote" VS "Don't Vote". Trump fanatics have proven over and over again, that he could shoot somebody on 5th Ave, and they will still love him. Nothing is going to change dramatically after this debate. Edited September 30, 2020 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: Late to this thread tonight ... overall thoughts: * The performances from both won’t move the needle one way or the other — which is a win for Trump. * Trump had better energy and pace, but missed some layups and got in his own way in spots. Joe wasn’t great, he came in third to Wallace in terms of winners, but he also survived til the end which itself is an accomplishment. * Both sides will be able to spin some gems from short cut ups of some of it, but Trump had the better tv moments. Theres already talk of canceling the next two debates. They can’t. It’ll make Joe look super weak. He needs a rebound more than Trump after tonight even if both stumbled. I was reading that... I would guess it will come down to the overnight snap polls, no? Maybe the 48 hour polls after the media has a chance to massage Biden's performance? He can always come down with COVID, but I would think a cold would be good enough. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: So I'm interested in your opinion here. Why would the Trump Org pay a consulting fee to Ivanka? It happens all of the time. The bigger thing is if Ivanka picked it up as income, which I assume she did. So it's getting taxed one way or another. Based on the NYT it's probably being taxed at a higher tax rate as well. On the tax side, I think the Trump Foundation is more interesting with the self-dealing and issues they already had with the Tebow helmet and picture. Nothing important will come from the Trump tax returns until the SDNY investigation is done except good quotes like the teachers paid more taxes than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said: No, I saw it as you not understanding what a moderator does. Oh, ok..well thanks for the insight. What was the part about the football teams, the Patriots getting penalized? Is Wallace a Pats fan? If so, he’s dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: Late to this thread tonight ... overall thoughts: * The performances from both won’t move the needle one way or the other — which is a win for Trump. * Trump had better energy and pace, but missed some layups and got in his own way in spots. Joe wasn’t great, he came in third to Wallace in terms of winners, but he also survived til the end which itself is an accomplishment. * Both sides will be able to spin some gems from short cut ups of some of it, but Trump had the better tv moments. Theres already talk of canceling the next two debates. They can’t. It’ll make Joe look super weak. He needs a rebound more than Trump after tonight even if both stumbled. There's a perfectly good basis to cancel the next two debates. If the moderator won't stop interruptions, won't threaten to cut the mic of repeat violators, why have these debates that are supposed to be focused on specific policy issues? There was no logical reason based on the questions tonight for Trump to bring up Hunter Biden's shady deals, nor was there any reason for Biden to bring up Trump's federal taxes. But they were unwilling to wait for the next debate when those questions will come up. It was ... a mess. Utterly uninformative, we learned nothing about the two we didn't already know before, and it cheapened (rather than strengthened) our national discourse and our system of government as a whole. If Biden's post-debate polling is stable or improves, if I'm his campaign chief I'm saying: I'm done. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Oh, ok..well thanks for the insight. What was the part about the football teams, the Patriots getting penalized? Is Wallace a Pats fan? If so, he’s dead to me. Probably, he seems like a Pat's fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said: It happens all of the time. The bigger thing is if Ivanka picked it up as income, which I assume she did. So it's getting taxed one way or another. Based on the NYT it's probably being taxed at a higher tax rate as well. On the tax side, I think the Trump Foundation is more interesting with the self-dealing and issues they already had with the Tebow helmet and picture. Nothing important will come from the Trump tax returns until the SDNY investigation is done except good quotes like the teachers paid more taxes than you. Kind of my thinking. There's a lot of things that raise an eyebrow, but until prosecutors go digging into it we can't really say anything in particular is illegal or fraudulent. Just a bad look for a presidential candidate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Late to this thread tonight ... overall thoughts: * Both sides will be able to spin some gems from short cut ups of some of it, but Trump had the better tv moments. You are right...I suspect "Proud Boys, stand down and stand by" will be his great tv moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Backintheday544 said: Probably, he seems like a Pat's fan. On that we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: He did deny paying $750 in 2016 and 2017, but he said he'd be releasing them "when they're ready." Which seems to mean "never." He’s been under audit since 2010, which was one of the biggest takeaways from the NYT article. Another of the biggest takeaways was that Trump made large tax payments based on estimates which were later to be partially refunded due to overpayment. He elected to let the Treasury keep that money in prepayment of future tax bills due. The $750 due in 2017 reflects his tax bill, not his tax liability, most of which he had already paid in prior years. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 It's usually hard to tell who's getting the better end of these things until you see people's reactions, but it's becoming increasingly clear that President Trump won in a big way. The prevailing sentiment on the left is that this was a complete 💩 show that was a miserable experience and we should dispense with anymore debates. Interestingly, they hate Chris Wallace as much as the right, despite his clear favoritism toward Biden. These are not the reactions of people who think this went well for them. Moreover, everyone already knows who Trump is. He didn't change anyone's perception of him tonight. Biden, on the other hand, looked weak. As I said before, the fact that they're calling President Trump a bully means Trump won. Bullying an old lady (i.e. Hilldog) is a bad look. Bullying a man you're competing against is another story. Put differently, getting big boyed by Trump is a really bad look for Biden. He might want to get back in the basement. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, njbuff said: I’m not watching, but the wife, who is as non-political as it gets says Wallace was mostly soft on Biden and railing Trump. True??? Yes, Wallace was debating Trump more than Biden was, interrupted only Trump as well and constantly just talked over him every time he would start to talk to let him know he has two minutes to answer the question. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: He’s been under audit since 2010, which was one of the biggest takeaways from the NYT article. Another of the biggest takeaways was that Trump made large tax payments based on estimates which were later to be partially refunded due to overpayment. He elected to let the Treasury keep that money in prepayment of future tax bills due. The $750 due in 2017 reflects his tax bill, not his tax liability, most of which he had already paid in prior years. And that may be the case. Look, if he's under audit he (his attorneys and accountants) have no doubt already presented their theories of tax liability. There's no reason not to release the taxes with those explanations. Is it Trump being stubborn, or still hoping to hide something (probably the follow-up questions)? All I know is right now this strategy is unlikely to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, BillStime said: The President of The United States of America refused to condemn White Supremacy on a live presidential debate. Trump didn’t win, Biden didn’t lose, Americans lost tonight. it’s ok to keep spamming the same message? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 45 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I had high hopes for Wallace. He might be a Democrat, but I thought he could be fair. I lost count of how many times he saved Biden as Biden started to falter. In the end, Wallace ended up debating Trump. That's like saying you had high hopes for Biden Really would love to see Joe Rogan moderate the final debate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Late to this thread tonight ... overall thoughts: * The performances from both won’t move the needle one way or the other — which is a win for Trump. * Trump had better energy and pace, but missed some layups and got in his own way in spots. Joe wasn’t great, he came in third to Wallace in terms of winners, but he also survived til the end which itself is an accomplishment. * Both sides will be able to spin some gems from short cut ups of some of it, but Trump had the better tv moments. Theres already talk of canceling the next two debates. They can’t. It’ll make Joe look super weak. He needs a rebound more than Trump after tonight even if both stumbled. * Trump's the one who needs to move the needle by nearly every measure. * Both candidates as a whole are representative of the terrible state of affairs in this country. * Joe had some really solid streaks where he went off script with a passion and focus that resonated... but still below the level I expect of a presidential candidate. Trump is of course the better showman, but Joe kept his cool when it mattered most which is a testament to him getting through the debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: He’s been under audit since 2010, which was one of the biggest takeaways from the NYT article. Another of the biggest takeaways was that Trump made large tax payments based on estimates which were later to be partially refunded due to overpayment. He elected to let the Treasury keep that money in prepayment of future tax bills due. The $750 due in 2017 reflects his tax bill, not his tax liability, most of which he had already paid in prior years. He's probably under the constant audit regime you get with LB&I. They audit more on a transactional basis than a return basis. It's common for all the biggest companies in the US. The 2017 breakdown of Trump's return showed business losses that exceed income per NYT, but that's not taking into count passive/no passive where I'd think a lot of Trump income is passive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: I'm a CPA and Tax attorney, so I love taxes! Romney's are the coolest: https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: There's a perfectly good basis to cancel the next two debates. If the moderator won't stop interruptions, won't threaten to cut the mic of repeat violators, why have these debates that are supposed to be focused on specific policy issues? There was no logical reason based on the questions tonight for Trump to bring up Hunter Biden's shady deals, nor was there any reason for Biden to bring up Trump's federal taxes. But they were unwilling to wait for the next debate when those questions will come up. It was ... a mess. Utterly uninformative, we learned nothing about the two we didn't already know before, and it cheapened (rather than strengthened) our national discourse and our system of government as a whole. If Biden's post-debate polling is stable or improves, if I'm his campaign chief I'm saying: I'm done. I’m not really sure how we can cheapen these discourse. Calling candidates racists/xenophobia’s/criminals/liars/treasonous/corrupt has been mainstream for 5 years. We’ve moved on to gang rapist, serial predator and now on to “****ing nuts and killer of women at the SC level. Soldiers are dumb bastards, POWs mocked and said former POW revealed as a two faced liar on the deciding vote for repealing health care. I think Biden tapping out is a good call. He performed as I expected tonight, I didn’t think he would zone out like he does in many interviews, but he’s 50% the man he was v Paul Ryan, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I feel like Biden had nothing to say and was classless in his own way(telling Trump to shut up, calling him names four times), but Trump blew it by being too aggressive. It was the football equivalent of running an exotic scheme with heavy blitzing against a team with Nathan Peterman or Ryan Leaf as quarterback. Sometimes it is better just to dial it down and let the other side get the turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe Miner said: Fine, which presidents returns for you prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Rob's House said: It's usually hard to tell who's getting the better end of these things until you see people's reactions, but it's becoming increasingly clear that President Trump won in a big way. The prevailing sentiment on the left is that this was a complete 💩 show that was a miserable experience and we should dispense with anymore debates. Interestingly, they hate Chris Wallace as much as the right, despite his clear favoritism toward Biden. These are not the reactions of people who think this went well for them. Moreover, everyone already knows who Trump is. He didn't change anyone's perception of him tonight. Biden, on the other hand, looked weak. As I said before, the fact that they're calling President Trump a bully means Trump won. Bullying an old lady (i.e. Hilldog) is a bad look. Bullying a man you're competing against is another story. Put differently, getting big boyed by Trump is a really bad look for Biden. He might want to get back in the basement. Biden was 50% of the man he was debating Paul Ryan just a few short years ago. His mind definitely wandered, and Wallace brought him back home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) I don't care who can talk better I want to know who can run this country better... So far Trump has shown he cannot run this country and is getting worse with his obsession of winning(at any cost) it's hurting this country. Edited September 30, 2020 by TBBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Capco said: * Trump's the one who needs to move the needle by nearly every measure. * Both candidates as a whole are representative of the terrible state of affairs in this country. * Joe had some really solid streaks where he went off script with a passion and focus that resonated... but still below the level I expect of a presidential candidate. Trump is of course the better showman, but Joe kept his cool when it mattered most which is a testament to him getting through the debate. And that's the sad fact. Another takeaway: both of these men are well past their expiration dates, and both of them are well, well below the intelligence we expect to see in a leader of any major organization, much less of the free world. (Not that we are that anymore.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, dgrochester55 said: I feel like Biden had nothing to say and was classless in his own way(telling Trump to shut up, calling him names four times), but Trump blew it by being too aggressive. It was the football equivalent of running an exotic scheme with heavy blitzing against a team with Nathan Peterman or Ryan Leaf as quarterback. Sometimes it is better just to dial it down and let the other side get the turnovers. Don't forget Trump dropped Pocahontas in there as well among some others. It's not like Trump didn't use any of his Twitter name calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 42 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Wallace did fairly little fact checking of Biden... He couldn't stop arguing with Trump when it was his turn to speak... complete disgrace 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Disappointed in Chris Wallace, though it was not unexpected. Thought 45 had 3 bad moments. Chris Wallace framed CRT as "racial sensitivity" & 45 said he was opposed to it because it was un-American (& it is), but he needed to point out that CRT goes WAY beyond sensitivity training & it is racist indoctrination. Also, thought saying he condemns the KKK would've been a slam dunk easy thing to say as he's done that many times in the past. And, he came across as angry on the question about mail in voting & waiting for an outcome. It was another item that IMHO he is on the right side of the issue but his inability to articulate a complex thought bit him on that one. Had Biden been fact checked / stopped short by the moderator more than just partially on the GND issue, expect he would've puked over himself. But he never did that. Don't believe either guy won, but 45 probably had a bit of a loss. Doesn't seem to be the board concensus; oh well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Backintheday544 said: Don't forget Trump dropped Pocahontas in there as well among some others. It's not like Trump didn't use any of his Twitter name calling. And Trump actually flubbed his Hunter Biden moment by not waiting for the right opportunity. He stepped all over Joe's fake indignation over Beau, and the entire thing got drowned out by his own inability to present a disciplined message. I doubt anyone unfamiliar with the whole story (and let's fact fact, people who bother to post here are in the 1% tail of political junkies) even comprehended what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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