Brian Daboll interview 8/14

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Oh were you going to provide some? 

 

I did. I know it's a real lot of words, but if take your time you can note the circumstances in which he came into each team, what was going on with the team before that, the result of his hiring and the demise of each coach soon after he was brought in.

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I did. I know it's a real lot of words, but if take your time you can note the circumstances in which he came into each team, what was going on with the team before that, the result of his hiring and the demise of each coach soon after he was brought in.

 

 

And none of it analyzes or reflects on the players/circumstances he had to deal with. Naming the coaches and stating their records is all but meaningless to the question: how did he perform as an OC. More important inquiries are who were his qbs? His wrs? His rbs? Etc. Convenient you dont analyze those questions; ya know, the ones that matter. 

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

For the Offense that was on the field, not the trainer's room, I'm not sure about that.  It's hair splitting.  

 

From 2012 until the Bills hired him,  it's not clear that the rest of the league looked at his body of work and concluded he was just unlucky with the rosters he had. 

 

Agree. That is why he went to college. Staying as a TE / WR coach wasn't gonna get him another shot. But the facts are there. He had terrible rosters. That is partly on him. When I was coaching soccer I got offered my first Head Coach job and I was gonna take it and last minute spoke to a guy who was a bit of a mentor who said to me never take on a bad team. Daboll has too often. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

And none of it analyzes or reflects on the players/circumstances he had to deal with. Naming the coaches and stating their records is all but meaningless to the question: how did he perform as an OC. More important inquiries are who were his qbs? His wrs? His rbs? Etc. Convenient you dont analyze those questions; ya know, the ones that matter. 

 

 

In 2009 Cleveland, he had Quinn and Derek Anderson (who in 2007  had 3800 yards, 29 TDs, was injured for much of 2008 under a different OC).  He rolled with Quinn over Anderson for most of the season.  Both were gone in 2010 so he put their rookie McCoy in there, along with the elderly Delhomme they picked up.  In 2009 Browns had top 8 rushing game.  2010 they had Hillis with 1650 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs.  WRs weren't any good other than Massaquoii in this rookie year.

 

In 2011 Miami, He had Henne, who led a 15th in scoring Offense in 2009, and replaced him with Matt Moore, who had 2500 yards in 12 starts. They were 11th in rushing yards.  They had Brandon Marshall and Hartline at WR and Reggie Bush at RB. They improved over the previous year in scoring, got worse in overall offense.

 

In KC,  he had Cassel, who in '08-'10 had his best years ('09, '10 in KC under a different coordinator), and he and Romeo brought in......Brady Quinn! for the backup.  Cassel had a concussion but when he was cleared, Daboll kept flip flopping them the rest of the season.  A top 5 running game (Charles with 1500 yards), Dwane Bowe (15 TDs in 2010) at WR.

 

No one is arguing he lost with loaded rosters.  But he had some decent players who were playing better before he showed up.  On 2 of this teams, his HC was fired a year after they hired Daboll.  It can also be noted that an OC has input on draft day and in trade decisions, FA, etc.  

 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. That is why he went to college. Staying as a TE / WR coach wasn't gonna get him another shot. But the facts are there. He had terrible rosters. That is partly on him. When I was coaching soccer I got offered my first Head Coach job and I was gonna take it and last minute spoke to a guy who was a bit of a mentor who said to me never take on a bad team. Daboll has too often. 

 

How many position coaches (either in the NFL or in the NCAA) are going to turn down an NFL OC job? 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

In 2009 Cleveland, he had Quinn and Derek Anderson (who in 2007  had 3800 yards, 29 TDs, was injured for much of 2008 under a different OC).  He rolled with Quinn over Anderson for most of the season.  Both were gone in 2010 so he put their rookie McCoy in there, along with the elderly Delhomme they picked up.  In 2009 Browns had top 8 rushing game.  2010 they had Hillis with 1650 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs.  WRs weren't any good other than Massaquoii in this rookie year.

 

In 2011 Miami, He had Henne, who led a 15th in scoring Offense in 2009, and replaced him with Matt Moore, who had 2500 yards in 12 starts. They were 11th in rushing yards.  They had Brandon Marshall and Hartline at WR and Reggie Bush at RB. They improved over the previous year in scoring, got worse in overall offense.

 

In KC,  he had Cassel, who in '08-'10 had his best years ('09, '10 in KC under a different coordinator), and he and Romeo brought in......Brady Quinn! for the backup.  Cassel had a concussion but when he was cleared, Daboll kept flip flopping them the rest of the season.  A top 5 running game (Charles with 1500 yards), Dwane Bowe (15 TDs in 2010) at WR.

 

No one is arguing he lost with loaded rosters.  But he had some decent players who were playing better before he showed up.  On 2 of this teams, his HC was fired a year after they hired Daboll.  It can also be noted that an OC has input on draft day and in trade decisions, FA, etc.  

 

 

 

 

 

How many position coaches (either in the NFL or in the NCAA) are going to turn down an NFL OC job? 

 

Sometimes you have to turn down promotions that are bad jobs. Your list of proving Daboll had some talent is pitiful. He has had atrocious talent. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sometimes you have to turn down promotions that are bad jobs. Your list of proving Daboll had some talent is pitiful. He has had atrocious talent. 

 

He had strong running games and a few decent WRs--that's "some talent". Some own his QB issues were worsened by his choices.  He did not have atrocious talent in Buffalo last season.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He had strong running games and a few decent WRs--that's "some talent". Some own his QB issues were worsened by his choices.  He did not have atrocious talent in Buffalo last season.

 

Agree he didn't. Nor did Buffalo last year put up atrocious numbers. Do they still need to be better? Yep. But Allen held Daboll back more than the opposite. If Josh takes a step Daboll will suddenly look very clever. And he will get the credit for it. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree he didn't. Nor did Buffalo last year put up atrocious numbers. Do they still need to be better? Yep. But Allen held Daboll back more than the opposite. If Josh takes a step Daboll will suddenly look very clever. And he will get the credit for it. 

 

 

That's a possibility.

 

I'm already on board with that ultimately, it will be Daboll, not Josh, holding the Offense back.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That's a possibility.

 

I'm already on board with that ultimately, it will be Daboll, not Josh, holding the Offense back.

 

Maybe it will and if it is Daboll will be fired. But last year? Yea. It definitely wasn't. 

[AmishRifle]

I just don’t see Brian Daboll as a head coach.  For me, it’s not so much the stats, potential success, or even the scheming, the man just doesn’t display the leadership qualities to lift an organization up.  I think he may plateau at the coordinator level, with or without, a top 10 offense this year.  He just doesn’t pass the eyeball test. 

[BobbyC81]

On 8/14/2020 at 9:42 AM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

LOL 

 

Kick the FG and the game changes!!! 

 

Daboll pulled  shite of his ass and blew it up!!!   

 

Who put the O-Line in that situation?   Play calling.  

 

Josh turned the wrong way.  I don’t know why he went left where the rush came from when he could’ve rolled right with 2 blockers coming to help.  Tough split second decision.

[BobbyC81]

On 8/14/2020 at 9:11 AM, YoloinOhio said:

 

I don’t know if it’s an indication of being in sync but McD and Daboll are very similar in the way they talk.

[LB48]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:39 PM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

Houston Playoff game ..   The Bills were on the 42 yard line and in FG range indoors

 

Instead of Trying the attempt .... 

4th and 27 call a pass play?. 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/1/4/21050009/texans-bills-playoff-win-explained-josh-allen-deshaun-watson

 

 

It's the inability of Josh to read a play quickly and understand he has to throw the ball out of bounds.  How many times in the season did similar plays occur? 

 

 

 

[eball]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Really? Nobody? They were below average offensively and didn't exactly show improvement at the end of the year. Again, raise your standards eball.?

I’m really sorry you can’t understand a basic argument. Daboll has been here two years and he started with a raw rookie QB. His offense improved from year one to year two. What logic suggests that firing him makes sense?

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, AmishRifle said:

I just don’t see Brian Daboll as a head coach.  For me, it’s not so much the stats, potential success, or even the scheming, the man just doesn’t display the leadership qualities to lift an organization up.  I think he may plateau at the coordinator level, with or without, a top 10 offense this year.  He just doesn’t pass the eyeball test. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with that. But I think he will get a shot. There are just too many opening every year and too few legitimate candidates. 

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Were the “NFL circles up in arms” about the firing?

 

No. The HC and players had issues with the offense being too complex....Something players here have said about Dabolls offense.

 

 

 

People were surprised - yes. 

[CSBill]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:39 PM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 

As I re-watch that play for the first time, I notice there are two wide open check-downs on both sides, either of those guys is going to get 5+ yards (this was 3rd down, right?). Ugh! On to 2020 . . .

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

As I re-watch that play for the first time, I notice there are two wide open check-downs on both sides, either of those guys is going to get 5+ yards (this was 3rd down, right?). Ugh! On to 2020 . . .

 

Yea that was the bit of the game where Josh's head was scrambled. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He had strong running games and a few decent WRs--that's "some talent". Some own his QB issues were worsened by his choices.  He did not have atrocious talent in Buffalo last season.

He was also a very young coach. I'm not sure what Belichick and Saban saw in him, but it's likely the same thing McDermott sees. 

 

I have read somewhere that his offense is extremely difficult to learn, so if you have mediocre players running it you can see why  execution is poor early on. The Bills offense did make a small jump in year two, most expect another jump year 3. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

In 2009 Cleveland, he had Quinn and Derek Anderson (who in 2007  had 3800 yards, 29 TDs, was injured for much of 2008 under a different OC).  He rolled with Quinn over Anderson for most of the season.  Both were gone in 2010 so he put their rookie McCoy in there, along with the elderly Delhomme they picked up.  In 2009 Browns had top 8 rushing game.  2010 they had Hillis with 1650 yards from scrimmage and 13 TDs.  WRs weren't any good other than Massaquoii in this rookie year.

 

In 2011 Miami, He had Henne, who led a 15th in scoring Offense in 2009, and replaced him with Matt Moore, who had 2500 yards in 12 starts. They were 11th in rushing yards.  They had Brandon Marshall and Hartline at WR and Reggie Bush at RB. They improved over the previous year in scoring, got worse in overall offense.

 

In KC,  he had Cassel, who in '08-'10 had his best years ('09, '10 in KC under a different coordinator), and he and Romeo brought in......Brady Quinn! for the backup.  Cassel had a concussion but when he was cleared, Daboll kept flip flopping them the rest of the season.  A top 5 running game (Charles with 1500 yards), Dwane Bowe (15 TDs in 2010) at WR.

 

No one is arguing he lost with loaded rosters.  But he had some decent players who were playing better before he showed up.  On 2 of this teams, his HC was fired a year after they hired Daboll.  It can also be noted that an OC has input on draft day and in trade decisions, FA, etc.  

 

 

 

 

 

How many position coaches (either in the NFL or in the NCAA) are going to turn down an NFL OC job? 

 

Missing from your Quinn v. Anderson analysis is that Quinn was eventually benched in favor of Anderson part way through the season. Anderson was terrible. I appreciate Anderson had a good season, QBs (and NFL players in general) often have flash in the pan success; however, his career demonstrates that it was just that: a flash in the pan. Also missing is that Mangini wasn't the first coach to bench Anderson in favor of Quinn, further illustrating just how poor a QB Anderson ended up being. Finally, based on what you are pointing out, it appears he called an efficient run offense, but was severly hampered by bad QB play. 

 

As to Miami, if I recall correctly, they went from the 30th ranked offense to the 20th ranked offense. Though when I read that, I don't know that I looked to see if it was scoring or yards. Importantly, however, he took what was a very bad offense and milked every bit of offensive capability out of that team. 

 

Finally, regarding KC, he has the same problem -- QB.  Cassel was always bad. It seems you criticize the Chiefs for bringing in Quinn, even though the roster isn't his decision.  That aside, a recurring theme arises--to eek out that much offense with a terrible QB is a remarkable achievement. Especially with those running offenses. 

 

There are two conclusions here. First, it seems apparent that had management in those situations not completely cleaned house, he probably would have kept those jobs, particularly Miami and KC.  Second, you can see why he is so respected in league circles, because he is managing to generate a surprising amount of offense from terrible rosters. What he did is akin to what happened with the Dolphins last year. Sure, that team was terrible by any metric. But Flores coached every bit of talent out of those guys, and they way over-performed expectations. I don't think Dabol did a Flores level job with his guys, but its the same basic concept. He got more out of his offenses than was expected. 

 

And you can't seriously think Dabol isn't respected in the league. He continues to get very good opportunities and even interviews for head coaching positions.  I mean, you have to realize that is objective evidence of his reputation in the league. 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Missing from your Quinn v. Anderson analysis is that Quinn was eventually benched in favor of Anderson part way through the season. Anderson was terrible. I appreciate Anderson had a good season, QBs (and NFL players in general) often have flash in the pan success; however, his career demonstrates that it was just that: a flash in the pan. Also missing is that Mangini wasn't the first coach to bench Anderson in favor of Quinn, further illustrating just how poor a QB Anderson ended up being. Finally, based on what you are pointing out, it appears he called an efficient run offense, but was severly hampered by bad QB play. 

 

As to Miami, if I recall correctly, they went from the 30th ranked offense to the 20th ranked offense. Though when I read that, I don't know that I looked to see if it was scoring or yards. Importantly, however, he took what was a very bad offense and milked every bit of offensive capability out of that team. 

 

Finally, regarding KC, he has the same problem -- QB.  Cassel was always bad. It seems you criticize the Chiefs for bringing in Quinn, even though the roster isn't his decision.  That aside, a recurring theme arises--to eek out that much offense with a terrible QB is a remarkable achievement. Especially with those running offenses. 

 

There are two conclusions here. First, it seems apparent that had management in those situations not completely cleaned house, he probably would have kept those jobs, particularly Miami and KC.  Second, you can see why he is so respected in league circles, because he is managing to generate a surprising amount of offense from terrible rosters. What he did is akin to what happened with the Dolphins last year. Sure, that team was terrible by any metric. But Flores coached every bit of talent out of those guys, and they way over-performed expectations. I don't think Dabol did a Flores level job with his guys, but its the same basic concept. He got more out of his offenses than was expected. 

 

And you can't seriously think Dabol isn't respected in the league. He continues to get very good opportunities and even interviews for head coaching positions.  I mean, you have to realize that is objective evidence of his reputation in the league. 

 

 

 

He was brought into 2 of those jobs to a year before the coaches that brought him in were fired.

 

Daboll knew enough about Quinn form Cleveland to tell a floundering Romeo Crennell that it was a bad decision.  He "eeked out" the worst scoring offense in the league in KC.  You and everyone on this board could have achieved that.  I'll assume you're joking there.

 

Maimi last year "over-performed expectations" only because everyone was ridiculously claiming they were "tanking".  Their running game sucked, but Fitz had a typical Fitz year and threw them to a top 12 passing game. They had a 1200+ yard WR in Adams and Gesicki, once used more, proved to be a solid TE.  Their Defense was as bad as it was the previous year.  So you're wrong there too.

 

Cleveland, the team that has hired and fired a ton of coordinators-to-HC interviewed him and decided on Stefanski.  He and Saleh were reported as the only serious contenders.  

 

Bringing you back on topic, if the Offense does not improve this season, it is hard if not impossible to imagine they would keep him another year.  That's what I'm saying.

[machine gun kelly]

Good points Josh.  Reminds me after the fact how much Gailey bashing went on even though he had arguably the least talented NFL team when he was here.  He was set up to lose.  I’m not saying Gailey was perfect, but he did get a lot out of Fitz at times, Spiller had his best or possibly only good years here.  It’s why I don’t dislike Gailey, and I don’t hate Daboll.
 

There is no argument his first year was mediocre, but we were purging players and had a raw rookie QB.  Josh only started at Wyoming for two years ina less than stellar conference, and had little talent around him iN 2018.  They upgraded their offense in 2019, he threw for just under 3,100 yards and ran for over 500 yards.  Daboll now has the talent Beane provided and a line to play behind that knows each other.  Did Daboll make some head scratching plays called, sure, but so have other OC’s.  I don’t think he’s ready to be a head coach yet, but I’m mentally prepared Frazier will probably get a serious shot in 2021, and if Daboll brings this offense to say top 12 in passing and top 5 in rushing. And an 11-5 record.  2022 will probably be his year.  2021 we face the NFCS, AFCE of course, and the AFCS.  The common opponents considering we probably win the East will be KC and Baltimore.  No easy schedule, but we should be ready for it.  If Daboll does well with our offense for two years, he’ll get promoted.  I’m rooting for him as that means I’m rooting for my Bills.  MGK simple logic.  Root for Daboll, we win.  See simple.

[Penfield45]

On 8/14/2020 at 11:50 AM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

scale back the offense? most of the guys on offense were here last season, what does this even mean? 

[C.Biscuit97]

As someone who didn’t want him from the start (love him being a local guy, know he knows a ton about football but his results absolutely suck), I’m already prepares for him to be the scapegoat if the offense struggles.  
 

he isn’t a good OC but at some point, players need to execute.  

[Mr. WEO]

33 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

scale back the offense? most of the guys on offense were here last season, what does this even mean? 

 

I bet Singletary is wondering the same thing..

[Penfield45]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I bet Singletary is wondering the same thing..

 

I said this since the day we drafted the kid, Allen won't turn into a top QB until we get him a mastermind OC that knows how to use his strengths and can develop him. 

 

Daboll is not the right man for that at all, as we have already seen. he puts Allen into so many difficult positions throughout games. 

 

Also, if we don't use our 1-2 punch RB duo to our advantage next season just get rid of Daboll as soon as we can. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Penfield45

[Beerball]

57 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

scale back the offense? most of the guys on offense were here last season, what does this even mean? 

Go back and view/read the question Daboll was asked. Then view/read his answer in full. Your questions will be answered and your fears alleviated.

[ColoradoBills]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with that. But I think he will get a shot. There are just too many opening every year and too few legitimate candidates. 

 

People were surprised - yes. 

 I

IF Daboll gets the O to click this year don't you think there is a chance he wants to stick with the Bills for another season with hopes to win it all.

Like you said above there are "many openings every year".

 

If I was in that position I know it wouldn't be a cut and dry decision.  Sure it's a risk but being an OC with a Super Bowl team get's you a much better

opportunity to pick the franchise you want to work for vs taking just any HC job offered.  Not to mention getting a ring for your hometown team has to

have some weight in the decision.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He was brought into 2 of those jobs to a year before the coaches that brought him in were fired.

 

Daboll knew enough about Quinn form Cleveland to tell a floundering Romeo Crennell that it was a bad decision.  He "eeked out" the worst scoring offense in the league in KC.  You and everyone on this board could have achieved that.  I'll assume you're joking there.

 

Maimi last year "over-performed expectations" only because everyone was ridiculously claiming they were "tanking".  Their running game sucked, but Fitz had a typical Fitz year and threw them to a top 12 passing game. They had a 1200+ yard WR in Adams and Gesicki, once used more, proved to be a solid TE.  Their Defense was as bad as it was the previous year.  So you're wrong there too.

 

Cleveland, the team that has hired and fired a ton of coordinators-to-HC interviewed him and decided on Stefanski.  He and Saleh were reported as the only serious contenders.  

 

Bringing you back on topic, if the Offense does not improve this season, it is hard if not impossible to imagine they would keep him another year.  That's what I'm saying.

Condescending considering the topic was Dabol’s head coaching prospects...

 

The rest of this is just breathtaking revisionist history. The bit about the Dolphins being underrated, despite having one of the worst starts to a season in NFL history, is one of the most unserious things Ive ever read on this board. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Condescending considering the topic was Dabol’s head coaching prospects...

 

The rest of this is just breathtaking revisionist history. The bit about the Dolphins being underrated, despite having one of the worst starts to a season in NFL history, is one of the most unserious things Ive ever read on this board. 

 

You get winded very easily.

 

Where was "the bit about the Dolphins being underrated"?  Certainly I didn't say that.  I simply pointed out your lazy take on the Dolphins--"terrible by any metric", is demonstrably false.  Why cling to it then?

 

Speaking of history,  that very same franchise also had an 0-7 ("one of the worst") start in 2011.  Their OC?  Brian Daboll.  After that one year, he and Sporano were gone.  

 

This is all as weak as listing "eeking out" the worst scoring Offense in the league as an achievement of some sort.

 

 

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You get winded very easily.

 

Where was "the bit about the Dolphins being underrated"?  Certainly I didn't say that.  I simply pointed out your lazy take on the Dolphins--"terrible by any metric", is demonstrably false.  Why cling to it then?

 

Speaking of history,  that very same franchise also had an 0-7 ("one of the worst") start in 2011.  Their OC?  Brian Daboll.  After that one year, he and Sporano were gone.  

 

This is all as weak as listing "eeking out" the worst scoring Offense in the league as an achievement of some sort.

 

 

 

 

Im convinced you just like arguing. You seem way too bright to say something so stupid.

Edited August 16, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[Mr. WEO]

35 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Im convinced you just like arguing. You seem way too bright to say something so stupid.

 

 

Nationally, I understand the move by some toward "alternative reality" and even "alternative "facts", but I see no room for such in this discussion.  

 

It's not argument for its sake...it's a correction of misinformation.  That, in most circles, does not define "stupid".  Foolish, perhaps, as history proves  the true believer cannot be moved from his dogma.