EDIT: Hyde(#10) White(#3) and Edmunds(#7) with high ranks from ESPN

[Stank_Nasty]

22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Dawkins was 14 OT (left and right) and Diggs 11 as well. The safeties are tomorrow. I’d expect Poyer to land in that top 15 somewhere.

Just tossed the safeties into this thread... no poyer, but hyde came in at 10.

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Just tossed the safeties into this thread... no poyer, but hyde came in at 10.

 

I think that is about right. I said during the season I thought Hyde was somewhere between the 8th and 12th best safety in the NFL. I have always been a fan - thought he was one of the most underappreciated players in the league when he was at Green Bay. A victim of his own versatility. I think Poyer is somewhere around 20th... but the two as a pair are a top 3 combo. The way they communicate and disguise coverages means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Just tossed the safeties into this thread... no poyer, but hyde came in at 10.

That’s surprised me some but I’m here for it

[Just Joshin']

@Stank_Nasty......Thanks for updating title, makes it much easier to sort through the threads.

[Stank_Nasty]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that is about right. I said during the season I thought Hyde was somewhere between the 8th and 12th best safety in the NFL. I have always been a fan - thought he was one of the most underappreciated players in the league when he was at Green Bay. A victim of his own versatility. I think Poyer is somewhere around 20th... but the two as a pair are a top 3 combo. The way they communicate and disguise coverages means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

your conclusion there is really the most important point of all. not many, if any, duo's do it better than those 2.

 

i'd put poyer in that 15-20 range most likely. which is pretty solid considering there are 64 starting in the NFL. 

[Penfield45]

our defense is young and in great shape for the next several years 

 

Tre white is a generational talent and needs to be paid whatever it takes to keep him here for the next decade. If Edmunds and Oliver all turn out to be all pro talents we have the 3 most important positions set. 

[Gambit]

24 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

our defense is young and in great shape for the next several years 

 

Tre white is a generational talent and needs to be paid whatever it takes to keep him here for the next decade. If Edmunds and Oliver all turn out to be all pro talents we have the 3 most important positions set. 

Pretty sure DE is considered more important than DT. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Gambit said:

Pretty sure DE is considered more important than DT. 

I actually heard a good point that a great DT could be more valuable than a great DE.  You can do things a lot easier to neutralize a really good DE (multiple blockers, RPOs, bootlegs away, chipping,etc).  Obviously you can double a DT but it opens up huge gaps in your protection or run game.  And qbs really struggle with pressure up the middle.  

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s surprised me some but I’m here for it

You like Poyer than Hyde?  I like both players al it but I think Hyde is the better all around player.  Poyer, who is really good, had some struggles in run support and gave up some plays in the pass game.  We’re nitpicking but if you had to make a choice, I go with Micah.

[Gambit]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

I actually heard a good point that a great DT could be more valuable than a great DE.  You can do things a lot easier to neutralize a really good DE (multiple blockers, RPOs, bootlegs away, chipping,etc).  Obviously you can double a DT but it opens up huge gaps in your protection or run game.  And qbs really struggle with pressure up the middle.  

That's a solid point. Only issue is a great DE can straight up win you the game sometimes. Kinda like how Mario used to man handle the Dolphins for us. Not saying a DT can't do it cause look at Donald. If Oliver turns out anywhere near that level than holy ***** QBs should be worried.

[SCBills]

28 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

our defense is young and in great shape for the next several years 

 

Tre white is a generational talent and needs to be paid whatever it takes to keep him here for the next decade. If Edmunds and Oliver all turn out to be all pro talents we have the 3 most important positions set. 

DE is definitely the one cornerstone position we’re missing.  
 

QB - Allen

LT - Dawkins

WR - Diggs

CB - White

MLB - Edmunds

DE - ? 
 

The great news is that we’re ok for the next couple years with Addison/Hughes, while we find some young talent in the draft to add to Epenesa. 
 

Young(er) talent like Oliver, Poyer, Singletary, Knox, Milano are important, but not considered to be building block positions unless Oliver turns into Aaron Donald, Knox becomes Travis Kelce etc.. 

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I actually heard a good point that a great DT could be more valuable than a great DE.  You can do things a lot easier to neutralize a really good DE (multiple blockers, RPOs, bootlegs away, chipping,etc).  Obviously you can double a DT but it opens up huge gaps in your protection or run game.  And qbs really struggle with pressure up the middle.  

You like Poyer than Hyde?  I like both players al it but I think Hyde is the better all around player.  Poyer, who is really good, had some struggles in run support and gave up some plays in the pass game.  We’re nitpicking but if you had to make a choice, I go with Micah.

i agree that an argument can be made that an elite interior rusher can be just as, if not more, valuable than and edge rusher.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Gambit said:

That's a solid point. Only issue is a great DE can straight up win you the game sometimes. Kinda like how Mario used to man handle the Dolphins for us. Not saying a DT can't do it cause look at Donald. If Oliver turns out anywhere near that level than holy ***** QBs should be worried.

Good point.  I also think the issue is DTs are such big guys, they struggle to stay in proper shape.  Most DEs are specimens.  A lot of DTs after they get paid start sucking. 

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

DE is definitely the one cornerstone position we’re missing.  
 

QB - Allen

LT - Dawkins

WR - Diggs

CB - White

MLB - Edmunds

DE - ? 
 

The great news is that we’re ok for the next couple years with Addison/Hughes, while we find some young talent in the draft to add to Epenesa. 
 

Young(er) talent like Oliver, Poyer, Singletary, Knox, Milano are important, but not considered to be building block positions unless Oliver turns into Aaron Donald, Knox becomes Travis Kelce etc.. 

It all comes down to Allen.  Last year, this team could make the playoffs with below to average qb play.  This year, I don’t know if that’s the case.  This team has a playoff roster.  If Allen is legit, they have a SB team. 

[Warcodered]

 

[Gambit]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You like Poyer than Hyde?  I like both players al it but I think Hyde is the better all around player.  Poyer, who is really good, had some struggles in run support and gave up some plays in the pass game.  We’re nitpicking but if you had to make a choice, I go with Micah.

I'm not sure how anyone can think Poyer is better. For me it's not even remotely close. Poyer to me is a liability in the run game. The guy can't tackle. 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good point.  I also think the issue is DTs are such big guys, they struggle to stay in proper shape.  Most DEs are specimens.  A lot of DTs after they get paid start sucking. 

It all comes down to Allen.  Last year, this team could make the playoffs with below to average qb play.  This year, I don’t know if that’s the case.  This team has a playoff roster.  If Allen is legit, they have a SB team. 

Agreed - I think the others (Diggs, Edmunds, Dawkins and White) all have proven to be/have the potential to become Top 10, potentially Top 5 guys at their position.  
 

Allen still has to show that.  If he comes anywhere close to the Top 10 discussion at QB, I don’t know too many teams that can beat us.  
 

Even if we just get two more check-down/easy completions per game, and one more completed deep ball per game - that takes Allen to 60%+ completion percentage and over 300 yards passing per, with likely, an additional 5-6 ppg on average from what we saw last year.  

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I actually heard a good point that a great DT could be more valuable than a great DE.  You can do things a lot easier to neutralize a really good DE (multiple blockers, RPOs, bootlegs away, chipping,etc).  Obviously you can double a DT but it opens up huge gaps in your protection or run game.  And qbs really struggle with pressure up the middle.  

You like Poyer than Hyde?  I like both players al it but I think Hyde is the better all around player.  Poyer, who is really good, had some struggles in run support and gave up some plays in the pass game.  We’re nitpicking but if you had to make a choice, I go with Micah.

I do like Poyer more at this point. I get that others prefer Hyde. Poyer just makes more plays. I guess the flip side is that Hyde prevents a lot of big plays. I’m really happy to have both but if I could only have one it would be Poyer for me.

17 minutes ago, Gambit said:

I'm not sure how anyone can think Poyer is better. For me it's not even remotely close. Poyer to me is a liability in the run game. The guy can't tackle. 

I know stats aren’t everything for a safety but he does have a lot of tackles for the position. He has 302 tackles over the last 3 years. I can’t post the graphic here but there are a lot of plays being made on his end.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, SCBills said:

DE is definitely the one cornerstone position we’re missing.  
 

QB - Allen

LT - Dawkins

WR - Diggs

CB - White

MLB - Edmunds

DE - ? 
 

The great news is that we’re ok for the next couple years with Addison/Hughes, while we find some young talent in the draft to add to Epenesa. 
 

Young(er) talent like Oliver, Poyer, Singletary, Knox, Milano are important, but not considered to be building block positions unless Oliver turns into Aaron Donald, Knox becomes Travis Kelce etc.. 

 

A top flight DT is a building block. It isn't just Donald. Witness the Chris Jones contract, Fletcher Cox etc.. 

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

Based on what's been leaked so far (and some of it has proven to be incorrect, so maybe others will be too), it looks like an 80-81 would slot Edmunds in around 18th or 19th best at the LB position.

 

Also, White was revealed to be a 90 overall instead of an 89 and 5th best in the game after initially being reported as an 89.

What we're talking strictly middle linebacker rankings

 

Because there's pass-rushing outside linebackers that have high overalls that would probably be dumping him down

[DCOrange]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

What we're talking strictly middle linebacker rankings

 

Because there's pass-rushing outside linebackers that have high overalls that would probably be dumping him down

Strictly off-ball linebackers. Each team's top 10 players was leaked (though some overalls have been different already such as Tre being a 90 instead of the reported 89), but based on that relatively limited sample of players:

 

1 Bobby Wagner 98
2 Lavonte David 90
3 Eric Kendricks 89
4 Demario Davis 89
5 Dont’a Hightower 88
6 Fred Warner 87
7 Deion Jones 86
8 Darius Leonard 85
9 C.J. Mosley 85
10 Roquan Smith 83
11 Leighton Vander Esch 83
12 Jamie Collins 83
13 Avery Williamson 83
14 Benardrick McKinney 82
15 Joe Schobert 82
16 Anthony Barr 82
17 Myles Jack 81
18 K.J. Wright 81
19 Isaiah Simmons 78
20 Raekwon McMillan 76

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Strictly off-ball linebackers. Each team's top 10 players was leaked (though some overalls have been different already such as Tre being a 90 instead of the reported 89), but based on that relatively limited sample of players:

 

1 Bobby Wagner 98
2 Lavonte David 90
3 Eric Kendricks 89
4 Demario Davis 89
5 Dont’a Hightower 88
6 Fred Warner 87
7 Deion Jones 86
8 Darius Leonard 85
9 C.J. Mosley 85
10 Roquan Smith 83
11 Leighton Vander Esch 83
12 Jamie Collins 83
13 Avery Williamson 83
14 Benardrick McKinney 82
15 Joe Schobert 82
16 Anthony Barr 82
17 Myles Jack 81
18 K.J. Wright 81
19 Isaiah Simmons 78
20 Raekwon McMillan 76

So at 81 he'd still be top 12 at Mike

[GoBills808]

Darius Leonard behind Hightower lmfao

[Doc Brown]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:51 AM, DCOrange said:

Honestly think they're overrating Edmunds as he currently is, but he certainly has that kind of potential.

 

Also, pretty crazy to see Richard Sherman only show up in the honorable mentions section. He was pretty much incredible last season and arguably better than White.

I thought Sherman should've received more consideration for comeback player of the year coming off a torn Achilles at 32 as it looked like he was slowly declining like Revis did.  Everyone's favorite PFF had him rated the #1 CB in coverage.  His annoying personality can overshadow his on the field performance though.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

I thought Sherman should've received more consideration for comeback player of the year coming off a torn Achilles at 32 as it looked like he was slowly declining like Revis did.  Everyone's favorite PFF had him rated the #1 CB in coverage.  His annoying personality can overshadow his on the field performance though.

Sherman benefitted a lot from that dline in front of him, he made hay w/his smarts and strength but he doesn't have the agility to be a top corner anymore.

[Penfield45]

1 hour ago, Gambit said:

Pretty sure DE is considered more important than DT. 

 

ehh. DE's are much easier to scout for and draft than a top end DT 

[Doc Brown]

23 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Sherman benefitted a lot from that dline in front of him, he made hay w/his smarts and strength but he doesn't have the agility to be a top corner anymore.

I'm hoping we can get a similar bounce back year from Norman in McD's scheme.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm hoping we can get a similar bounce back year from Norman in McD's scheme.

That's exactly what I think best case scenario Norman performs in this defense, the difference being Sherman doesn't have a White opposite him nor Edmunds/Poyer brackets to assist. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

That's exactly what I think best case scenario Norman performs in this defense, the difference being Sherman doesn't have a White opposite him nor Edmunds/Poyer brackets to assist. 

 

Which is why I am pretty confident that Norman will be good here. He actually played well in Washington until last year in an ill fitting scheme. 

[Punching Bag]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:11 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

I do like Poyer more at this point. I get that others prefer Hyde. Poyer just makes more plays. I guess the flip side is that Hyde prevents a lot of big plays. I’m really happy to have both but if I could only have one it would be Poyer for me.

 

I know stats aren’t everything for a safety but he does have a lot of tackles for the position. He has 302 tackles over the last 3 years. I can’t post the graphic here but there are a lot of plays being made on his end.

 

Here are the stats and someone needs to give award to Coach McD in having Poyer making 207 solo tackles WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO TACKLE.

 

Micah Hyde

					Games		Def Interceptions					Fumbles						Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Yds	TD	Lng	PD	FF	Fmb	FR	Yds	TD	Sk	Comb	Solo	Ast	TFL	QBHits	Sfty	AV
3 yrs		BUF			47	47	8	80	0	37	20	2	0	2	40	0	0.0	212	156	56	4	1		23
2017*	27	BUF	SS	23	16	16	5	64	0	37	13						0.0	82	65	17	2	0		8
2018	28	BUF	SS	23	15	15	2	16	0	16	5	0	0	1	9	0	0.0	58	41	17	1	0		7
2019	29	BUF	FS	23	16	16	1	0	0	0	2	2	0	1	31	0	0.0	72	50	22	1	1		8

 

 

Jordan Poyer

					Games		Def Interceptions					Fumbles						Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Yds	TD	Lng	PD	FF	Fmb	FR	Yds	TD	Sk	Comb	Solo	Ast	TFL	QBHits	Sfty	AV
3 yrs		BUF			47	47	11	44	1	19	22	4	0	5	32	0	5.0	302	207	95	17	6		21
2017	26	BUF	FS	21	15	15	5	33	1	19	13	0	0	1	32	0	2.0	95	63	32	4	2		5
2018	27	BUF	FS	21	16	16	4	11	0	11	6	1	0	1	0	0	2.0	100	73	27	9	3		8
2019	28	BUF	SS	21	16	16	2	0	0	0	3	3	0	3	0	0	1.0	107	71	36	4	1		8