EDIT: Hyde(#10) White(#3) and Edmunds(#7) with high ranks from ESPN

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. I think he is below average in the 2020 NFL. I wasn't watching the NFL in 1990 so that definitely isn't my reference point. I don't watch every game back on all22 but I do watch all the Bills games back that way and in an average week I watch every snap of at least 10 NFL games. To me against his modern day peers he is below average in gap recognition and lane discipline. 

 

I like Edmunds. Thought he took a big step in 2019. But he is unquestionably better vs the pass than the run for my money. 

I don't think I said he was better in the run versus the pass. I said that people are undervaluing his run-stuffing

 

Which his 20 run stops prove. Somebody who is below average wouldn't even have 10 stuffs. You just want him to be Bobby Wagner which he isn't

 

He is good in the pass game and getting better, but right now it's mostly because of his physical gifts and not his play recognizing abilities. When that catches up to speed he will be an all pro

 

Matt Milano is way better recognizing pass concepts right now

Edited July 16, 2020 by Buffalo716

[JustWinPlease]

Edmunds is going to be the best MLB in the NFL within 3 years...take it to the bank!

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think I said he was better in the run versus the pass. I said that people are undervaluing his run-stuffing

 

Which his 20 run stops prove. Somebody who is below average wouldn't even have 10 stuffs, that's a fact. You just want him to be Bobby Wagner which he isn't

 

He is good in the pass game, but right now it's mostly because of his physical gifts and not his play recognizing abilities. When that catches up to speed he will be an all pro

 

Matt Milano is way better recognizing pass concepts right now

 

I don't want him to be Bobby Wagner. How many of his 20 run stuffs are close to the line? 

 

I respect you opinion but I think you are off on this. That is not what I see when I watch the tape not just of Tremaine but of other MLBs in the NFL. 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't want him to be Bobby Wagner. How many of his 20 run stuffs are close to the line? 

 

I respect you opinion but I think you are off on this. That is not what I see when I watch the tape not just of Tremaine but of other MLBs in the NFL. 

By definition a stuff is behind or at the line of scrimmage

 

So all 20 were for no gain or loss of yards

 

By no means do I think he's an elite run stuffer, but where the game is in 2020 he's easily top 16 , I think the advanced stats would show that

 

What I think you're seeing is his inconsistency. Because some plays he looks lost run-stuffing, and then other plays he's a heat-seeking missile

 

Averaged out, he's probably an average run-stuffer who is getting better. When he has a bad game he's bad, 

 

When he's on he's on

 

and you know I totally respect you GB just because of your passion for the game from across the pond

Edited July 16, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

By definition a stuff is behind or at the line of scrimmage

 

So all 20 were for no gain or loss of yards

 

By no means do I think he's an elite run stuffer, but where the game is in 2020 he's easily top 16 , I think the advanced stats would show that

 

What I think you're seeing is his inconsistency. Because some plays he looks lost run-stuffing, and then other plays he's a heat-seeking missile

 

Averaged out, he's probably an average run-stuffer who is getting better. When he has a bad game he's bad, 

 

When he's on he's on

 

He definitely is inconsistent. And yes there were games where he played really well. But there are games where he is a walking disaster too. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He definitely is inconsistent. And yes there were games where he played really well. But there are games where he is a walking disaster too. 

For sure. and you know I respect the crap out of you GB because of your love for the game from across the pond

 

Like I said in one of my first posts the games not cut-and-dry.

 

Tremaine is pretty good at snuffing out stretches and outside  zones. Getting to use his athletic ability

 

But he struggles on Powers and whams, where they're attacking right at him. He definitely need to get stronger at the point of attack

 

Just like he's better in zone then he is in man following a running back

 

But I am super glad we drafted him

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes. 

Is he really much better at this point?  I know he gets caught up sometimes but he led the league in tackles for no gain or negative with 20.  Seems like he progressed a lot last year vs the run. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Is he really much better at this point?  I know he gets caught up sometimes but he led the league in tackles for no gain or negative with 20.  Seems like he progressed a lot last year vs the run. 

 

In my view, yes. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

5 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

ESPN continued their rankings through the week with Top ten Cb's today and top ten LB's yesterday. Our guys came in hot and i cant disagree with their respective slots too much. Some good reads on our guys here!

 

White came in behind Gilmore and Ramsey...https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29467257/ranking-nfl-top-10-cornerbacks-2020-new-wave-shutdown-stalwarts

 

3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills

Age: 25 | Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 8

White is coming off a huge season in Buffalo and has the league's attention in a big way.

"He tackles, can play zone or man, can cover best guy, helps in run support -- the complete package," said one NFL passing game coordinator. "Only knock on him was turnovers, but he answered that this year."

White tied Gilmore and Vikings safety Anthony Harris for the league lead with six interceptions. White also tied Gilmore and Steelers corner Joe Haden for third place in disrupted dropbacks -- sacks, interceptions, batted or tipped passes -- with 18.

And if it wasn't obvious White likes to shadow the best player, he finished second to Gilmore in targets as the nearest defender without giving up a touchdown (84).

White has the perfect setup in Buffalo, which is one of the league's most disciplined defenses with playmaking safeties Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer anchoring the middle.

Playing in a bigger market such as New York City or Dallas would only amplify White's star wattage.

"His technique is impressive," said an NFL defensive assistant coach. "He's arrived as a top-flight guy."

 

Edmunds came in behind Bobby Wagner, Lavonte David, Eric Kendricks, Darius Leonard, Demario Davis, and Deion Jones...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29460392/ranking-nfl-top-10-linebackers-2020-best-hybrid-playmakers-d

 

7. Tremaine Edmunds, Buffalo Bills

Age: 22 | Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: Off the ballot

Edmunds is still one of the NFL's best-kept secrets. He quietly flies around New Era Field, and many of those polled gladly stack him in their top six.

"He's the epitome of freaky," one AFC scout said. "He's a cornerstone guy, about the right stuff, works hard and has serious range."

Added a veteran NFL offensive coach: "He'll be No. 1 on this list soon. Tremendous athlete."

Edmunds is still evolving in pass defense, but he uses his range and 6-foot-5, 236-pound frame to dominate the run. Edmunds led all linebackers with 20 "run stuffs," a stop for no gain or a loss, according to Next Gen Stats.

"He's still raw, and sometimes he's in the wrong run fits, but once he sees the ball, he runs it down within five yards better than anybody," said a veteran NFL linebacker. "And he'll clean up the shortcomings. He's talented enough to do that."

 

 

Can they call EA and the guys over at Madden for crying out loud?!

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

15 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Can they call EA and the guys over at Madden for crying out loud?!

 

 

edmunds is slotted at like 80 or 81. thats absurd. i doubt he's even in the top 15 MLB's on the game.... hell, the defense as a whole is only an 83. foolish.

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't want him to be Bobby Wagner. How many of his 20 run stuffs are close to the line? 

 

I respect you opinion but I think you are off on this. That is not what I see when I watch the tape not just of Tremaine but of other MLBs in the NFL. 

all 20. their definition of a stuff is at or behind the line. a stat he led the league in.... but i agree he's need more consistency there in general

 

do you agree with his #7 ranking? it seems to me that some of the execs comments were projecting a bit more so than telling it like he is now. i'd argue he's borderline top 10 though, for sure.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

edmunds is slotted at like 80 or 81. thats absurd. i doubt he's even in the top 15 MLB's on the game.... hell, the defense as a whole is only an 83. foolish.

all 20. their definition of a stuff is at or behind the line. a stat he led the league in.... but i agree he's need more consistency there in general

 

do you agree with his #7 ranking? it seems to me that some of the execs comments were projecting a bit more so than telling it like he is now. i'd argue he's borderline top 10 though, for sure.

Madden has toned down the ratings for years

 

An 81 is absolutely in the top 12 of MLBs I would assume

 

With an average starter overall of about 75 or 76

Edited July 16, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Madden has toned down the ratings for years

 

An 81 is absolutely in the top 12 of linebackers I would assume

 

With an average starter overall of about 76 or 77

well whites 89 only puts him at 6th. thats not horrible. But i'm interested to see where edmunds 81 is. I'm also interested to see where the defense ranks overall. i dunno if that can be found yet or not. if its not at least in the top 5, it would be a complete joke.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

well whites 89 only puts him at 6th. so i'm interested to see where edmunds 81 is. and i'm also interested to see where the defense ranks overall. i dunno if that can be found yet or not. if its not at least in the top 5, it would be a complete joke.

I would think it'd be at least tied for top five.

 

There's more cornerbacks than middle linebackers so there will be more higher overall players

 

Same with D ends

 

There are only 32 starting Mike's..

 

An 81 what put Tremaine at 14th, at the end of this year's Madden

 

But they also have kuechly and Ryan shazier in the game ahead of him. So it would be 12

 

The lowest-ranked starting middle linebacker is Germaine Pratt , Bengals 70, 

 

and there are good amount of players in the low-to-mid 70s who start at Mike. So an 81 should be top 12

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

edmunds is slotted at like 80 or 81. thats absurd. i doubt he's even in the top 15 MLB's on the game.... hell, the defense as a whole is only an 83. foolish.

all 20. their definition of a stuff is at or behind the line. a stat he led the league in.... but i agree he's need more consistency there in general

 

do you agree with his #7 ranking? it seems to me that some of the execs comments were projecting a bit more so than telling it like he is now. i'd argue he's borderline top 10 though, for sure.

 

I'd argue he is top 10 or thereabouts too. But that is party cos in the pass game I have him top 5. Against the run I have him in the 15-20 range. But I value pass > run. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Stank_Nasty]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I would think it'd be at least tied for top five.

 

There's more cornerbacks than middle linebackers so there will be more higher overall players

 

Same with D ends

 

There are only 32 starting Mike's..

 

An 81 what put Tremaine at 14th, at the end of this year's Madden

 

But they also have kuechly and Ryan shazier in the game ahead of him. So it would be 12

 

The lowest-ranked starting middle linebacker is Germaine Pratt , Bengals 70, 

 

and there are good amount of players in the low-to-mid 70s who start at Mike. So an 81 should be top 12

 

 

good info. thanks. if he's in that 10-14 range i cant argue with it too much.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In my view, yes. 

Meaning his coverage skills are just amazing or his run defense is still suspect?

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Meaning his coverage skills are just amazing or his run defense is still suspect?

 

A bit of both. I think he is really good against the pass. He affects plays that go nowhere near him by taking lanes away and making QBs hold the ball. I think he has excellent drops and is pretty good in coverage when tested. But I think his run D is still suspect. Too many blown assignments, poor gap awareness and bad lane discipline. Needs to be much more consistent vs the run. 

[klos63]

8 hours ago, DBilz2500 said:

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

he really came on strong blitzing the QB late last year. He's strong all around.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, DBilz2500 said:

Isn’t Edmunds much better covering the pass than he is in run defense? 

I’d be interested to see his run D stats broken out when Jordan Philllips is in the game vs not. 

[DCOrange]

15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Madden has toned down the ratings for years

 

An 81 is absolutely in the top 12 of MLBs I would assume

 

With an average starter overall of about 75 or 76

 

15 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

well whites 89 only puts him at 6th. thats not horrible. But i'm interested to see where edmunds 81 is. I'm also interested to see where the defense ranks overall. i dunno if that can be found yet or not. if its not at least in the top 5, it would be a complete joke.

Based on what's been leaked so far (and some of it has proven to be incorrect, so maybe others will be too), it looks like an 80-81 would slot Edmunds in around 18th or 19th best at the LB position.

 

Also, White was revealed to be a 90 overall instead of an 89 and 5th best in the game after initially being reported as an 89.