Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Doc said: It wasn't one poll. It was a 2nd poll that found the same results as one done 15 years earlier. That were somehow both off by 57% just 4 years later. But hey, it's not my job to tell people what should and should not offend them. And in the end, the name got changed. And take it up with the players. That's what they said, not me. They obviously accepted him with open arms despite all the things he said and did to Martin. polls don’t matter, except you someone like you who believe no derogatory term is inherently racist. You’ve made that opinion very clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Is Anyone worried about Bills MAFIA could be next ? I mean people who are in the mafia are not really the good guys , I hope our Italian or Russian fans/community are not offended by it !!! Go Bills !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Putin said: Is Anyone worried about Bills MAFIA could be next ? I mean people who are in the mafia are not really the good guys , I hope our Italian or Russian fans/community are not offended by it !!! Go Bills !!! No not really. If that is the case then the New Jersey Devils will have to change their name. The Devil is bad and we can't have a team named after Satan. I am actually surprised the Chicago Blackhawks haven't gotten more grief. I personally think they have the best logo in hockey and one of the best in sports but the PC crowd probably finds it offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Greg S said: No not really. If that is the case then the New Jersey Devils will have to change their name. The Devil is bad and we can't have a team named after Satan. I am actually surprised the Chicago Blackhawks haven't gotten more grief. I personally think they have the best logo in hockey and one of the best in sports but the PC crowd probably finds it offensive. Apparently the Blackhawks have worked with Native Americans and engaged in an educational effort to show that their nickname isn’t a characterization of a race or culture, it’s honoring a specific individual — Chief Black Hawk — who was an Illinois historic figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Just now, eball said: Apparently the Blackhawks have worked with Native Americans and engaged in an educational effort to show that their nickname isn’t a characterization of a race or culture, it’s honoring a specific individual — Chief Black Hawk — who was an Illinois historic figure. I didn't know that. I guess that explains it but I wouldn't put it past today's society to try and have that changed eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Greg S said: I didn't know that. I guess that explains it but I wouldn't put it past today's society to try and have that changed eventually. It’s kind of weird...I mean, the Bills are also named after a specific person but it’s not like there are teams naming themselves the Lincolns or the Kennedys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: polls don’t matter, except you someone like you who believe no derogatory term is inherently racist. You’ve made that opinion very clear If that's your takeaway, have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: If that's your takeaway, have at it. You have made clear your thought process multiple times in this thread--there is no other takeaway. Why now pretend otherwise? And do you think the pressure and submission to the name change is due to any poll of Native Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You have made clear your thought process multiple times in this thread--there is no other takeaway. Why now pretend otherwise? And do you think the pressure and submission to the name change is due to any poll of Native Americans? Yes I've made it clear. You just believe what you want, as usual. Considering a recent poll showed 2/3 of Native Americans disapprove of the term, whereas a poll conducted just 4 years ago showed that only10% do, sure I'd have to say that that poll could be the impetus for the name change now versus anytime in their almost 90-year history, or even last 4 years. Edited July 20, 2020 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 12:21 PM, boater said: Listening to the windbag live right now. He's saying the Buffalo Bills may be up next to change their name. Rationale: They are named after Buffalo Bill Cody who murdered many Native Americans. I hope the Bills don't change their name. (it's 930 AM, or WBEN on radio.com) I read Buffalo Bill Cody's biography, he fought in the civil war, was anti slavery, got into a hand to hand combat with a Cheyene warrior and killed that man. The article didn't explain the nature of the fight. Otherwise, was a hard working stand up guy. Of course did the wild west show highlighting the wild west. Maybe worked for the pony express, a little fuzzy if he actually did according to the article I read. Not that it really matters actually. I don't see a pressing need to change the name because of Buffalo Bill Cody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: Yes I've made it clear. You just believe what you want, as usual. Considering a recent poll showed 2/3 of Native Americans disapprove of the term, whereas a poll conducted just 4 years ago showed that only10% do, sure I'd have to say that that poll is the impetus for the name change now versus anytime in their almost 90-year history. That poll was published in the press in February. It resulted in no response from Snyder to change the name. His recent change of heart was prompted by sponsor/minority owner mutiny as you well know. It had nothing to do with a poll published months ago--why keep pretending otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 3:21 PM, boater said: Listening to the windbag live right now. He's saying the Buffalo Bills may be up next to change their name. Rationale: They are named after Buffalo Bill Cody who murdered many Native Americans. I hope the Bills don't change their name. (it's 930 AM, or WBEN on radio.com) SO DID COWBOYS! Lol Bill Cody was a performer and Buffalo hunter, nothing about his name is offensive to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: That poll was published in the press in February. It resulted in no response from Snyder to change the name. His recent change of heart was prompted by sponsor/minority owner mutiny as you well know. It had nothing to do with a poll published months ago--why keep pretending otherwise? And the poll had nothing to do with sponsor/minority owner mutiny? They all just suddenly realized that "redskin" was racist on their own? Edited July 20, 2020 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: And the poll had nothing to do with sponsor/minority owner mutiny? LOL, that's a good one. Maybe it was the social/racial unrest happening for the past 3 months? The nationwide daily protests and outrage? Other major companies dropping images or names considered offensive? Nah, must have been some poll done months before that they woke up to that "proved" to them that a racial slur is bad. Come on doc--you absolutely do not believe this. No one does. Stop digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, MR8 said: SO DID COWBOYS! Lol Bill Cody was a performer and Buffalo hunter, nothing about his name is offensive to anyone. As long as you leave out the Native Americans he fought, killed, and scalped..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Doc said: And the poll had nothing to do with sponsor/minority owner mutiny? They all just suddenly realized that "redskin" was racist on their own? Doc, which minority communities do you think object? Also, could you give me an estimate of what percentage of the overall population that you think cares at all about the names of football teams? I live in a community with some minorities, and have been friends with and worked with every minority of which you could think. My 3 daughters are minorities. Not 1 person has ever told me that they care about the names of football teams. Zero Doc. Btw, count me in. I don't give one infinitesimal $%&k about names of football teams. It does irritate me just a tad to see them extorted to change, by people that are really not fans like us. This of course is jmo. Edited July 20, 2020 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Doc, which minority communities do you think object? Also, could you give me an estimate of what percentage of the overall population that you think cares at all about the names of football teams? I live in a community with some minorities, and have been friends with and worked with every minority of which you could think. My 3 daughters are minorities. Not 1 person has ever told me that they care about the names of football teams. Zero Doc. Btw, count me in. I don't give one infinitesimal $%&k about names of football teams. It does irritate me just a tad to see them extorted to change, by people that are really not fans like us. This of course is jmo. I've already talked too much on this subject. Suffice it to say that a recent poll of 2/3 of Native Americans find the term "redskins" offensive and it should be changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 45 minutes ago, Doc said: I've already talked too much on this subject. Suffice it to say that a recent poll of 2/3 of Native Americans find the term "redskins" offensive and it should be changed. Cool. Lets leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 On a related note, no one knows why the city is called Buffalo. I don't think that buffalo ever ranged in WNY. I know that someone will point out that the city is named after Buffalo Creek but that just shifts the question to how did the creek get its name. I once read an after-dinner speech by Grover Cleveland delivered about 1885 on this issue. I can't find it on the web now but here's a link that includes much of what was in that speech: https://owlcation.com/humanities/How-Buffalo-New-York-got-its-Name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: I've already talked too much on this subject. Truer words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Truer words... For you it's always implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Just now, Doc said: For you it's always implied. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, iinii said: As long as you leave out the Native Americans he fought, killed, and scalped..... Scouts don't do much fighting if any, And if you're talkin wartime, it's wartime.. both sides are killing each other Bill Cody made natives very rich taking them around the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Old Coot said: On a related note, no one knows why the city is called Buffalo. I don't think that buffalo ever ranged in WNY. I know that someone will point out that the city is named after Buffalo Creek but that just shifts the question to how did the creek get its name. I once read an after-dinner speech by Grover Cleveland delivered about 1885 on this issue. I can't find it on the web now but here's a link that includes much of what was in that speech: https://owlcation.com/humanities/How-Buffalo-New-York-got-its-Name Basically the origin story is it's a French translation of beau fleuve (pronounced bo-flu Beautiful river 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Basically the origin story is it's a French translation of beau fleuve (pronounced bo-flu Beautiful river That's one of the theories; see the link I provided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Scouts don't do much fighting if any, And if you're talkin wartime, it's wartime.. both sides are killing each other Bill Cody made natives very rich taking them around the world So as long as you make people rich , all is forgiven? It was most definitely war. Scalping Yellow Hair was just all in a days work is a bit of a trivial way of looking through the lens of history. Cody’s hands had plenty of blood on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, iinii said: So as long as you make people rich , all is forgiven? It was most definitely war. Scalping Yellow Hair was just all in a days work is a bit of a trivial way of looking through the lens of history. Cody’s hands had plenty of blood on them. You do realize natives scalped Americans too? And during wartime especially in the 1800 nothing's off the table during fighting If he want around raping women and children it be a different story, he was a scout in the military He did his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: You do realize natives scalped Americans too? And during wartime especially in the 1800 nothing's off the table during fighting If he want around raping women and children it be a different story, he was a scout in the military He did his job How do you know he didn’t do those things? Were you there? History has never been sanitized to suit a narrative of the rich and powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 4:16 PM, BuffaloBob said: I could go for this suggestion. ? I always think as bob like poodles' tails - bobbed off. Not good idea. Maybe Billy Buffalo can be bobbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, iinii said: How do you know he didn’t do those things? Were you there? History has never been sanitized to suit a narrative of the rich and powerful. Nobody knows for sure. But besides football my life's passion is history And he did and said plenty of good things about native Americans.. and helped out a bunch If he committed war crimes, I would never stick up for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 8:00 PM, Limeaid said: I always think as bob like poodles' tails - bobbed off. Not good idea. Maybe Billy Buffalo can be bobbed. Bells on bobtail ring?? I always think of the woman's haircut myself. I was kidding anyway. Buffalo Bills is just fine by me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 7:11 PM, Buffalo716 said: Nobody knows for sure. But besides football my life's passion is history And he did and said plenty of good things about native Americans.. and helped out a bunch If he committed war crimes, I would never stick up for that So, would you consider scalping someone a war crime? And is killing over 4000 Bison, which the Sioux depended on for their way of life, helping out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, iinii said: So, would you consider scalping someone a war crime? And is killing over 4000 Bison, which the Sioux depended on for their way of life, helping out? Dude you can go back in history and find not good things that every single person alive has done. Every single person Native Americans used to scalp Europeans during war, it's wartime in the 1800s There is nothing gentleman about war in that time. He was not committing genocide And getting into debates about killing animals leads nowhere . It was done way before Bill Cody, and way after he wasn't the only one killing bison, and he did not almost make them go extinct he was hired by the railroads to feed the workers, so that's why he went on that spree and killed four thousand bison.. He wasn't killing them for fun and he did not almost kill them all.. wildlife experts agree that Bisons were dying off due to disease en mass and not slaughter It would have been impossible for American hunters, to wipe out over 60 million bison over hundreds of thousands of square miles.. it was disease Edited July 27, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Dude you can go back in history and find not good things that every single person alive has done. Every single person Native Americans used to scalp Europeans during war, it's wartime in the 1800s There is nothing gentleman about war in that time. He was not committing genocide And getting into debates about killing animals leads nowhere . It was done way before Bill Cody, and way after he wasn't the only one killing bison No Bison good thing they can always fall back on mammoths. Though purposefully hunting bison to extinction was ***** up, though Cody becoming a conservationist who'd advocate for hunting seasons likely regretted what happened with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Warcodered said: No Bison good thing they can always fall back on mammoths. Though purposefully hunting bison to extinction was ***** up, though Cody becoming a conservationist who'd advocate for hunting seasons likely regretted what happened with them. It's actually a scientific fact he didn't almost hunt them to Extinction. That is new age propaganda there was over 60 million bison in hundreds of thousands of square miles. And Bill Cody only killed 4,000 to feed railroad workers... That is actually what happened Bisons died out in Mass due to disease, not hunting, that's the truth Cody did not kill nearly enough to drive anything to Extinction Edited July 27, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: It's actually a scientific fact he didn't almost hunt them to Extinction. That is new age propaganda there was over 60 million bison in hundreds of thousands of square miles. And Bill Cody only killed 4,000 to feed railroad workers... That is actually what happened Bisons died out in Mass due to disease, that's the scientific fact I didn't mean just him. Quote General Sherman remarked, in conversation the other day, that the quickest way to compel the Indians to settle down to civilized life was to send ten regiments of soldiers to the plains, with orders to shoot buffaloes until they became too scarce to support the redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I didn't mean just him. Sure , we killed some Bison But like I said, Americans did not drive them to Extinction, they did not kill 60 million bison.. today we know it was way more disease than actual hunting We didn't have the manpower out there to kill 60 million bison. And there's tons of other food out there on the plains to hunt, including antelope and deer. We maybe killed tens of thousands of bison, not tens of millions And disease did the rest Edited July 27, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Dude you can go back in history and find not good things that every single person alive has done. Every single person Native Americans used to scalp Europeans during war, it's wartime in the 1800s There is nothing gentleman about war in that time. He was not committing genocide And getting into debates about killing animals leads nowhere . It was done way before Bill Cody, and way after he wasn't the only one killing bison, and he did not almost make them go extinct he was hired by the railroads to feed the workers, so that's why he went on that spree and killed four thousand bison.. He wasn't killing them for fun and he did not almost kill them all.. wildlife experts agree that Bisons were dying off due to disease en mass and not slaughter It would have been impossible for American hunters, to wipe out over 60 million bison over hundreds of thousands of square miles.. it was disease You seem to have trouble with the idea that you can’t be on both sides of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, iinii said: So, would you consider scalping someone a war crime? And is killing over 4000 Bison, which the Sioux depended on for their way of life, helping out? 2 hours ago, Warcodered said: No Bison good thing they can always fall back on mammoths. Though purposefully hunting bison to extinction was ***** up, though Cody becoming a conservationist who'd advocate for hunting seasons likely regretted what happened with them. 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: It's actually a scientific fact he didn't almost hunt them to Extinction. That is new age propaganda there was over 60 million bison in hundreds of thousands of square miles. And Bill Cody only killed 4,000 to feed railroad workers... That is actually what happened Bisons died out in Mass due to disease, not hunting, that's the truth Cody did not kill nearly enough to drive anything to Extinction 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Sure , we killed some Bison But like I said, Americans did not drive them to Extinction, they did not kill 60 million bison.. today we know it was way more disease than actual hunting We didn't have the manpower out there to kill 60 million bison. So I figured I'd pop in to see what was keeping this little thread going.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Dude you can go back in history and find not good things that every single person alive has done. Every single person Native Americans used to scalp Europeans during war, it's wartime in the 1800s There is nothing gentleman about war in that time. He was not committing genocide And getting into debates about killing animals leads nowhere . It was done way before Bill Cody, and way after he wasn't the only one killing bison, and he did not almost make them go extinct he was hired by the railroads to feed the workers, so that's why he went on that spree and killed four thousand bison.. He wasn't killing them for fun and he did not almost kill them all.. wildlife experts agree that Bisons were dying off due to disease en mass and not slaughter It would have been impossible for American hunters, to wipe out over 60 million bison over hundreds of thousands of square miles.. it was disease No mention of disease here. https://www.flatcreekinn.com/bison-americas-mammal/ But it is mentioned here. https://www.tsln.com/news/a-unique-study-of-bison-populations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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