Botts Canned!

[Mike in Horseheads]

11 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

all the Amerks' coaches just got turfed

Rochester Americans

 

@AmerksHockey

 

The

@BuffaloSabres

announced today that General Manager Randy Sexton, Head Coach Chris Taylor and Assistant Coaches Gord Dineen and Toby Petersen have all been relieved of their duties.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Yes, but the last few years you have to wonder is it job performance, or perceived 'hanky panky'.

[BillsFan4]

Why in the world would they fire Chris Taylor?

 

Im very anxious to see how these positions are filled, if they are filled at all. 

 

Does Tom Golisano want to buy the team back...? 

[Mike in Horseheads]

 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

After seeing all these other firings I’m thinking the reason botterill was fired is because he wasn’t willing to **** can 1/2 his staff.

[shrader]

54 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Why in the world would they fire Chris Taylor?

 

Im very anxious to see how these positions are filled, if they are filled at all. 

 

Does Tom Golisano want to buy the team back...? 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor winds up on the NHL staff instead.  That firing really feels like a formality in all of this.

[Sherlock Holmes]

8 hours ago, shoshin said:

Breaking news: Botterill out

 

Me: I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHO THEY HIRE. HOPE IS ON THE WAY! SO EXCITED!!!!!

 

Statement: Kevyn Adams is the new GM. 

 

Me:

R222222!!!!!!!

[BillsFan4]

35 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor winds up on the NHL staff instead.  That firing really feels like a formality in all of this.

Hope you’re right. But why fire his whole staff then?

 

It makes no sense to me. Gord Dineen did a good job filling in for Taylor.

 

All I can think is that maybe Kevyn Adams has someone in mind for the job. His area of expertise has been in player development.

 

or it was a cost cutting move, but I’m not sure if AHL coaching contract are guaranteed like NHL contract are. If they are then it wouldn’t make much sense to fire him to save $$.

Edited June 16, 2020 by BillsFan4

[May Day 10]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

Hope you’re right. But why fire his whole staff then?

 

It makes no sense to me. Gord Dineen did a good job filling in for Taylor.

 

All I can think is that maybe Kevyn Adams has someone in mind for the job. His area of expertise has been in player development.

 

I dont think there is a plan yet beyond clearing employees

 

 

[snafu]

I don’t celebrate when anyone loses a job. That being said, Botterill sucked. The team is in shambles. 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by snafu

[BillsFan4]

Just now, May Day 10 said:

 

I dont think there is a plan yet beyond clearing employees

 

 

It does kind of seem that way right now. 

 

This is probably one of the most crucial off-seasons in years. So many decisions to be made. This is probably the best opportunity we will have for quite a while for a GM to put his stamp on this team. I hope they don’t just keep a bare bones staff, especially with Adams being so inexperienced. 

[May Day 10]

That's the problem.  Normally I would be encouraged and awaiting a new chapter.... but this doesnt add up.

 

I have never seen such a cleansing.  Sudden.  Adams was an internal hire too.  It's not like they got an established guy with his team of scouts and staff he has cultivated over the years.  This was kevyn adams' staff he knew.  As far as I know, Adams lacks the experience or credibility to build everything decisively to that extent.  All things normal...  Adams would probably prefer a lot of infrastructure remain in place.

 

And there is a draft coming up.  

 

And a week ago, ownership seemed to portray that everything was cool.  

[Lurker]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm beginning to think the McDermott and Beane hiring was more the case of a broken clock being right twice a day than actual ownership competence.  The Sabres organization is the joke of the league right now.

 

IIRC, I seem to remember a story that after Sexy Rexy was fired, the league office gave the Pegula's help in crafting a list of potential HC candidates to choose from.  McD was the first candidate on that list interviewed and subsequently hired.  In turn, Sean's recommendation of Beane probably carried a lot of weight on the GM hire.

 

If so, the Pegula's really did benefit from the NFL's subtle prod, rather than prove they were astute judges of talent.    Sadly, without help like that, the Sabres are probably going to continue spinning their wheels...

[shrader]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

Hope you’re right. But why fire his whole staff then?

 

It makes no sense to me. Gord Dineen did a good job filling in for Taylor.

 

All I can think is that maybe Kevyn Adams has someone in mind for the job. His area of expertise has been in player development.

 

or it was a cost cutting move, but I’m not sure if AHL coaching contract are guaranteed like NHL contract are. If they are then it wouldn’t make much sense to fire him to save $$.

I don’t really know how the contracts work,  whether or not it can be converted into an NHL deal. If he needs a new contract to be in the NHL full time, they need to terminate the old one anyway (if it had any term remaining after this year). I think we need to just let the dust settle a bit on this one. My guess is that some of the people fired will be back when the season rolls around. 

[Keukasmallies]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

I dont think there is a plan yet beyond clearing employees

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Keukasmallies

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I don’t really know how the contracts work,  whether or not it can be converted into an NHL deal. If he needs a new contract to be in the NHL full time, they need to terminate the old one anyway (if it had any term remaining after this year). I think we need to just let the dust settle a bit on this one. My guess is that some of the people fired will be back when the season rolls around. 

You could be right (and I hope you are).

 

It'll be interesting to see what the Sabres do in the coming weeks as well as what other teams do. I am unaware of any other teams that have taken these types of measures yet. The coyotes fired 4 people but they immediately began searching for replacements. 

 

It'll be pretty embarrassing if we are one of the only teams to do something like this. I can’t imagine it would make Eichel very happy to see his team pinching pennies while other teams run with their full staffs and look for competitive advantages.

 

I can’t imagine they just leave all these positions vacant though. They do still have a draft and eventual season to prepare for. I’m fine with it if they take their time finding the right hires. But I’m not ok with them just leaving all those positions vacant, my legitimate fear right now. This doesn’t seem like it’s just a normal house cleaning that happens when you hire a new GM. This seems like something else that none of us have ever quite seen before.

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

I don’t trust him because he spells his name Kevyn. 

[zevo]

38 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

You could be right (and I hope you are).

 

It'll be interesting to see what the Sabres do in the coming weeks as well as what other teams do. I am unaware of any other teams that have taken these types of measures yet. The coyotes fired 4 people but they immediately began searching for replacements. 

 

It'll be pretty embarrassing if we are one of the only teams to do something like this. I can’t imagine it would make Eichel very happy to see his team pinching pennies while other teams run with their full staffs and look for competitive advantages.

 

I can’t imagine they just leave all these positions vacant though. They do still have a draft and eventual season to prepare for. I’m fine with it if they take their time finding the right hires. But I’m not ok with them just leaving all those positions vacant, my legitimate fear right now. This doesn’t seem like it’s just a normal house cleaning that happens when you hire a new GM. This seems like something else that none of us have ever quite seen before.

 

 

 

Hockey heaven baby

[BillsFan4]

I haven’t been this depressed about the Sabres and worried about their future since the Rigas scandal/bankruptcy happened.

Edited June 17, 2020 by BillsFan4

[Beast]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

It does kind of seem that way right now. 

 

This is probably one of the most crucial off-seasons in years. So many decisions to be made. This is probably the best opportunity we will have for quite a while for a GM to put his stamp on this team. I hope they don’t just keep a bare bones staff, especially with Adams being so inexperienced. 

Why is this off-season the best for a GM to put his stamp on the team?

 

Who is available outside of this organization that can be acquired to make that much of a difference?

 

I’m just asking because I don’t know.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Beast

[shrader]

9 minutes ago, Beast said:

Why is this off-season the best for a GM to put his stamp on the team?

 

Who is available outside of this organization that can be acquired to make that much of a difference?

 

I’m just asking because I don’t know.

Long story short, there are a lot of open roster spots and plenty of cap space to fill them. It’s not the amount of space that you can go on a crazy shopping spree, but it’s more than enough to put together a decent roster if done properly. 

[Beast]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Long story short, there are a lot of open roster spots and plenty of cap space to fill them. It’s not the amount of space that you can go on a crazy shopping spree, but it’s more than enough to put together a decent roster if done properly. 

OK, so who’s available and why would they want to come here?

 

And isn’t Reinhart and Dahlin soon due for a new contract?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Beast

[shrader]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

OK, so who’s available and why would they want to come here?

 

And isn’t Reinhart and Dahlin soon due for a new contract?

Im not one to dive into a list of possibly available players, but someone would come here for the same reason they sign anywhere... $$$

 

Reinhart will get a new deal this summer. Dahlin can, but that wouldn’t go into effect until 2011-2012. His cap figure and salary are locked in for next season. 

[Beast]

6 minutes ago, shrader said:

Im not one to dive into a list of possibly available players, but someone would come here for the same reason they sign anywhere... $$$

 

Reinhart will get a new deal this summer. Dahlin can, but that wouldn’t go into effect until 2011-2012. His cap figure and salary are locked in for next season. 

In other words, money is the only reason and the Pegula’s are now preaching sustainability. A far cry from their only reason for existence is to win the Stanley Cup or if I need money I’ll dig another well. 

 

People need to start facing a stark reality that the Buffalo Sabres are toast.

 

The rumor is the Sabres have lost up to 60 million dollars the last few seasons.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Beast

[shrader]

 

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

It'll be interesting to see what the Sabres do in the coming weeks as well as what other teams do. I am unaware of any other teams that have taken these types of measures yet. The coyotes fired 4 people but they immediately began searching for replacements.

 

only six teams really can though right now. I get the sneaking suspicion that there’s more to come around the sports world. While this may in fact be unprecedented, everything we’ve seen in the past three months has been as well. And we’re not coming out of those woods anytime soon. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by shrader

[BillsFan4]

41 minutes ago, Beast said:

Why is this off-season the best for a GM to put his stamp on the team?

 

Who is available outside of this organization that can be acquired to make that much of a difference?

 

I’m just asking because I don’t know.

The Sabres have a crazy amount of free agents, both UFA and RFA. There are 7 UFA’s alone. That many roster spots don’t usually open up all at once on NHL teams. This is a good opportunity for a GM (whether that’s botterill or someone else) to put his stamp on this team for years to come. NHL contracts are guaranteed so it’s tougher to turn over an NHL roster vs. NFL. 

 

As far as who’s available, I’d take Ray Shero (though that may not be a popular answer), Ron Hextall, even Dean Lombardi. Or a number of other highly regarded assistant GMs around the NHL. I wish they’d at least have done a search. If nothing else it’s a unique opportunity (or at least it is for teams that don’t fire their GM every few years) to pick the brains of other execs around the NHL and get some outside views on how they view your roster, it’s needs, etc. Why not at least do that? 

 

I don’t want it to sound like I’m writing off Kevyn Adams though. I’m waiting to see what happens - who he hires and what his vision for the team is, etc.

Edited June 17, 2020 by BillsFan4

[BillsFan4]

 

Wonder what’s up with the pro scouting dept. They haven’t had a whole lot of success during Botterill’s tenure. (not that I’m wishing for anyone to lose their jobs or anything)

[thebug]

7 hours ago, Beast said:

In other words, money is the only reason and the Pegula’s are now preaching sustainability. A far cry from their only reason for existence is to win the Stanley Cup or if I need money I’ll dig another well. 

 

People need to start facing a stark reality that the Buffalo Sabres are toast.

 

The rumor is the Sabres have lost up to 60 million dollars the last few seasons.

 

 

Can’t Pegs just drill another well? 

[May Day 10]

I wonder if the Pegulas leaked that $60 million figure themselves, or had an underling do it

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Wonder what’s up with the pro scouting dept. They haven’t had a whole lot of success during Botterill’s tenure. (not that I’m wishing for anyone to lose their jobs or anything)

Due to the new austerity approach there will be more video scouting and less human scouting. And also probably more usage of scouting services than reliance on your own in-house staff. These type of changes also save on travel costs associated with the scouting process. It's a new reality forced by the pandemic but also how companies conduct their businesses more cheaply. When you lose money you are forced to save money! 

[Greg S]

1 hour ago, thebug said:

Can’t Pegs just drill another well? 

 

They need someone to run the hockey ops for them. The Sabres have been a disaster under their ownership. On the flip side they are doing a good job with the Bills. Having Beane and McDermott run the show has been a blessing for Bills fans. The Sabres need that same kind of leadership that the Bills have.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

The Sabres have a crazy amount of free agents, both UFA and RFA. There are 7 UFA’s alone. That many roster spots don’t usually open up all at once on NHL teams. This is a good opportunity for a GM (whether that’s botterill or someone else) to put his stamp on this team for years to come. NHL contracts are guaranteed so it’s tougher to turn over an NHL roster vs. NFL. 

 

As far as who’s available, I’d take Ray Shero (though that may not be a popular answer), Ron Hextall, even Dean Lombardi. Or a number of other highly regarded assistant GMs around the NHL. I wish they’d at least have done a search. If nothing else it’s a unique opportunity (or at least it is for teams that don’t fire their GM every few years) to pick the brains of other execs around the NHL and get some outside views on how they view your roster, it’s needs, etc. Why not at least do that? 

 

I don’t want it to sound like I’m writing off Kevyn Adams though. I’m waiting to see what happens - who he hires and what his vision for the team is, etc.

There is a harsh reality here that needs to be faced. The Pegulas didn't fire Botterill for hockey reasons. They fired him because he refused to go along with the  draconian austerity approach that stripped the organization of a large portion of its staff. The emphasis was on cost saving in order to alleviate the hemorrhaging of money. 

 

Will this organizational retrenchment affect the team's prospects? Probably so, but not necessarily in the short-term. Whatever deals that will be made will be done within the framework of the player/contract coming in will be countered with the player/contract going out. The focus will be more of a business perspective than a hockey perspective. The operative word for the organization is survival on the balance sheet. 

 

What I will be keenly watching this offseason more than the scrambling of the organization (which already is a fait-accompli) are what deals will be made to improve the roster. If there isn't much seriousness in addressing the roster then it will be time be saddened and discouraged. That will result in the fading away as a fan. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by JohnC

[oldmanfan]

My read is they are looking for the kind of communication and process building they have with Bean and McD.  They see how successful things like process and culture are there, and I think Krueger fits the same mindset, similar to McD.  If Adams does as well, then hopefully they get the ship righted.  Now, if I were Adams I'd park my butt down with Beane and pick his brain on how to establish his organization, how to get good alignment, and such.  

 

As for hemmorhaging money, an't comment on that since I don't see the books.  But the Sabres are Terry's thing, hockey is more his passion than football, so I'd be shocked if he ever sold.  Not terribly surprised by most of the firings; Adams and Krueger no doubt has their ideas there with scouting and such.  But the Rochester firings don't add up for me; they were doing well down there so unless it was a loyalty thing to Botterill then it doesn't make much sense.

 

Put Skinner back with Eichel, sign a real goalie or bring the Finnish kid up, have Cosins join the big leagues and you should be OK.

[Kirby Jackson]

Feels like only yesterday that I railed on the decision to have Kim Pegula as the President/CEO of PSE. At the time I claimed there were 100+ people in their organization more qualified. I’m just here to take a quick victory lap and accept any apologizes that people want to offer.

 

All joking aside, this was the expected outcome. They are over their heads as owners. I believe firing Botterill was the right decision. I believe publicly supporting him and then firing him 2 months later is idiotic. The Sabres have lost credibility with hockey leaders, players and agents. That’s not a good franchise building strategy. The best owners in sports own the teams. They don’t operate them.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Feels like only yesterday that I failed on the decision to have Kim Pegula as the President/CEO of PSE. At the time I claimed there were 100+ people in their organization more qualified. I’m just here to take a quick victory lap and accept any apologizes that people want to offer.

 

All joking aside, this was the expected outcome. They are over their heads as owners. I believe firing Botterill was the right decision. I believe publicly supporting him and then firing him 2 months later is idiotic. The Sabres have lost credibility with hockey leaders, players and agents. That’s not a good franchise building strategy. The best owners in sports own the teams. They don’t operate them.

 

Which drives home the point about having a strong management team run the show. The Bills were just like the Sabres a few years ago. Spinning their wheels and going nowhere. Replace the GM/HC every few years over and over again. Beane and McDermott changed the culture of the Bills. The Sabres need the same. If you judge the Pegula's on only the Bills then they are considered good owners. Judge them off the Sabres and its a different story.

[May Day 10]

they will ruin the Bills too, even if they have it right temporarily.  They are toxic.  They think they are experts and are really clueless.  Crazy hubris

[Greg S]

8 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

they will ruin the Bills too, even if they have it right temporarily.  They are toxic.  They think they are experts and are really clueless.  Crazy hubris

 

All they have to do is sign Beane/McDermott to contract extensions and then stay out of the way. Look at Robert Kraft as an example. With the exception of signing the checks, what does he do for the Pats? He lets Bill run the entire show and I would say that has worked out for him very well. The Pegula's have it right with McBeane. No reason to meddle and **** that up.

[Dr. Who]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

In other words, money is the only reason and the Pegula’s are now preaching sustainability. A far cry from their only reason for existence is to win the Stanley Cup or if I need money I’ll dig another well. 

 

People need to start facing a stark reality that the Buffalo Sabres are toast.

 

The rumor is the Sabres have lost up to 60 million dollars the last few seasons.

 

 

They are not toast. The NHL in general is facing economic austerity due to the pandemic. Not making the playoffs for nine consecutive seasons doesn't help the Sabres' bottomline. The current moves do not presage the end of the franchise or its move to another city. It's a depressing enough moment in team history. Piling on is nearly sadistic. In truth, a moderately effective GM, given current roster and open spots, could facilitate a quick turnaround. it's not implausible the team could be a playoff team next year. Imo, 2C, 2RW, and a better goalie to pair with Ullmark is enough to get in the playoffs. Cozens will probably be a third liner who can grow into the 2C of the future. It's not all bleakness, though dark enough.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Dr. Who

[May Day 10]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

All they have to do is sign Beane/McDermott to contract extensions and then stay out of the way. Look at Robert Kraft as an example. With the exception of signing the checks, what does he do for the Pats? He lets Bill run the entire show and I would say that has worked out for him very well. The Pegula's have it right with McBeane. No reason to meddle and **** that up.

 

Wait until one of the daughters is a scout and tries to tell them who to draft (and after McDermott and Beane built enough credibility to write their own tickets).