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1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

You keep doubling down as a pathological liar. Please, continue.

 

I take it you didn’t bother to brush up on the born alive rule.  Guns kill more people than do abortions.  It’s a fact. 

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Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

And that's why you're a clown.

 

Fake news.  

 

But what appears to be non-fake news is that you believe that any time a woman pregnant in her first trimester has a beer or sneaks a cigarette she should be charged with a misdemeanor.  

1 minute ago, Cinga said:

 

And most of those are by LE personnel or self defense.

 

Immaterial.  The fact remains that guns kill more people than do abortions.  

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1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I take it you didn’t bother to brush up on the born alive rule.  Guns kill more people than do abortions.  It’s a fact. 

 

You're just playing on words as usual, and thinking a "fetus" is not a living person. But they are, so go f*** yourself

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Just now, Cinga said:

 

You're just playing on words as usual, and thinking a "fetus" is not a living person. But they are, so go f*** yourself

 

Not in the eyes of the law they aren’t.  And if they are, then we have a real problem with policing expectant mothers, right?  You’re cool with charging expectant moms with endangering the welfare of a child if they have  a glass of wine?  Or with investigating an expectant mom who miscarries early for manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide?  Have at it, but don’t complain to me about a police state. 

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1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I take it you didn’t bother to brush up on the born alive rule.  Guns kill more people than do abortions.  It’s a fact. 

As I recall, everything the Nazis did was legal in German courts. It took years to accomplish, but they achieved institutional evil. Your mind set is clear. You worship the authority of the state. If the state condones barbarism that benefits you, you are all in. Very few things in life really set me off, but the Nazi mindset does it every time. I absolutely hate Nazis.

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2 minutes ago, Cinga said:

 

And most of those are by LE personnel or self defense.


Actually 2/3 of those are suicide.  Makes you wonder if they didn’t have guns, would they still commit suicide by other means?  My guess is most would

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Just now, SectionC3 said:

 

Fake news.  

:lol: 

 

In just the past twenty minutes you've posted a completely ignorant take on the legal system and the rule of law, and stated a "fact" that was only off by about 560,000 deaths. 

 

You are a joke of a poster, who has no understanding of much of anything. And you seem to enjoy proving that on a daily basis down here. A smarter man would realize what an embarrassment he's become, but you're not a smart man.

 

Or an original one.

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2 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

As I recall, everything the Nazis did was legal in German courts. It took years to accomplish, but they achieved institutional evil. Your mind set is clear. You worship the authority of the state. If the state condones barbarism that benefits you, you are all in. Very few things in life really set me off, but the Nazi mindset does it every time. I absolutely hate Nazis.

 

Hoax.  You’re just a bit touchy, or maybe a bit “snowflake-y,” because you’re wrong.  Guns kill more people than do abortions.  Chew on that fact all day long. 

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

:lol: 

 

In just the past twenty minutes you've posted a completely ignorant take on the legal system and the rule of law, and stated a "fact" that was only off by about 560,000 deaths. 

 

You are a joke of a poster, who has no understanding of much of anything. And you seem to enjoy proving that on a daily basis down here. A smarter man would realize what an embarrassment he's become, but you're not a smart man.

 

Or an original one.

 

You are a bit hoaxy again today, aren’t you?  What’s the legal definition of a person?  Hint: it’s someone who is born alive.  Ergo, guns kill more people than do abortions.  

2 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

As I recall, everything the Nazis did was legal in German courts. It took years to accomplish, but they achieved institutional evil. Your mind set is clear. You worship the authority of the state. If the state condones barbarism that benefits you, you are all in. Very few things in life really set me off, but the Nazi mindset does it every time. I absolutely hate Nazis.

 

All the more reason Trump’s monkeying with the justice system is disgraceful, by the way. 

Edited by SectionC3
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16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You fail to understand the entire foundation of our legal system. It's not "guilty until you prove yourself innocent", it's quite the opposite. The sentiment you're pushing here is the reason WHY we have the system we do.

 

Wrong. Unless you're promoting fascism, which you seem to love to do.

Your statement changes nothing.  No man is above the law.  Including our leaders.  If he is innocent then fine.  If he's guilty fine.  

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3 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

As I recall, everything the Nazis did was legal in German courts. It took years to accomplish, but they achieved institutional evil. Your mind set is clear. You worship the authority of the state. If the state condones barbarism that benefits you, you are all in. Very few things in life really set me off, but the Nazi mindset does it every time. I absolutely hate Nazis.

 

You might want to take it up with state legislatures, which define “person” for the purpose of assessing criminal liability.  

Just now, Cinga said:

 

Can't even come up with original names can you?

 

I can.  Snowflake just fits the best here. 

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Just now, oldmanfan said:

Your statement changes nothing.  No man is above the law.  Including our leaders.  If he is innocent then fine.  If he's guilty fine.  

 

It changes EVERYTHING in fact. You're arguing for a complete subversion of the western notion of jurisprudence. You're arguing that the onus is on the individual to prove his innocence. That's been the mantra of tyrants since the beginning of time, and why LIBERAL PHILOSOPHY spent hundreds of years fighting for the system we have now. 

 

You're 100% incorrect. 

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Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It changes EVERYTHING in fact. You're arguing for a complete subversion of the western notion of jurisprudence. You're arguing that the onus is on the individual to prove his innocence. That's been the mantra of tyrants since the beginning of time, and why LIBERAL PHILOSOPHY spent hundreds of years fighting for the system we have now. 

 

You're 100% incorrect. 

  Do you  know the issue in the “Trump” case that is to be (or by now maybe has been) argued today?

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2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

You might want to take it up with state legislatures, which define “person” for the purpose of assessing criminal liability.  

 

I can.  Snowflake just fits the best here. 

Call me what you like, but you are a pathological liar.

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1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Fake news.  I speak the truth.  And you know it, which is why you have resorted to name calling.  Not classy on your end.  

You just can't stop lying. You are going to provide some amazing entertainment over the next 6 months. You do you, as disgusting as that may be.

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Just now, Reality Check said:

You just can't stop lying. You are going to provide some amazing entertainment over the next 6 months. You do you, as disgusting as that may be.

 

Still can’t refute my point.  I’ll be here all day if you get around to it.  

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22 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Fake news.  

 

But what appears to be non-fake news is that you believe that any time a woman pregnant in her first trimester has a beer or sneaks a cigarette she should be charged with a misdemeanor.  

 

Immaterial.  The fact remains that guns kill more people than do abortions.  

 

In 2016, 623,471 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2016 was 11.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 186 abortions per 1,000 live births.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/index.htm

 

Where do you get your stats from gun deaths...so I can follow you on this.

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3 minutes ago, Whatnot78 said:

 

In 2016, 623,471 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2016 was 11.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 186 abortions per 1,000 live births.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/index.htm

 

Where do you get your stats from gun deaths...so I can follow you on this.

 

Define “person.”  

 

I’ll make it easy for you.  In approximately zero of the 623,471 cases you mentioned was a “person” killed.  You might believe that a fetus is a person.  And you’re entitled to that view.  (For what it’s worth, it’s one that I happen to share.)  But the law doesn’t see it that way, and we are a nation of laws.  The fetus becomes a “person” the moment the fetus is born alive.  Ergo, guns kill more “people” than do abortions.  Case closed. 

Edited by SectionC3
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Just now, Whatnot78 said:

 

What?  I'm asking where you get your stats from, not some philosophical debate.

 

See above.  You assume that abortion terminates a “person.”  Under the eyes of the law, it does not.  The fact remains that guns kill more people than do abortions. 

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Just now, SectionC3 said:

 

See above.  You assume that abortion terminates a “person.”  Under the eyes of the law, it does not.  The fact remains that guns kill more people than do abortions. 

 

I'm not assuming anything. I'm providing stats from the CDC.  So again, where are you getting your stats from.

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1 minute ago, Whatnot78 said:

 

I'm not assuming anything. I'm providing stats from the CDC.  So again, where are you getting your stats from.

 

We can agree that there are a significant number of homicides arising from gun violence in this country, correct?  To the extent we agree on that point, the data that you seek is irrelevant.  Abortions do not kill people.  Gun violence kills people.  Case closed. 

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Just now, SectionC3 said:

 

1. We can agree that there are a significant number of homicides arising from gun violence in this country, correct?  To the extent we agree on that point, 2. the data that you seek is irrelevant.  3. Abortions do not kill people.  4. Gun violence kills people.  5. Case closed. 

 

I've broken out my answers above by number...

 

1. Agree

2. Disagree...can you provide statistics?

3. Disagree...I'm assuming this is your "define person" argument

4. Agree

5. Only because you refuse to answer my question for #2

 

My case is closed...clearly you cannot provide any stats or just plain refuse to.  

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22 minutes ago, Whatnot78 said:

 

I've broken out my answers above by number...

 

1. Agree

2. Disagree...can you provide statistics?

3. Disagree...I'm assuming this is your "define person" argument

4. Agree

5. Only because you refuse to answer my question for #2

 

My case is closed...clearly you cannot provide any stats or just plain refuse to.  

 

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

And there we go.  Gun violence has killed people. Abortion does not kill a person.  Case closed. 

 

***

 

And, by way of example in New York State:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.05,d

Edited by SectionC3
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1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Define “person.”  

 

I’ll make it easy for you.  In approximately zero of the 623,471 cases you mentioned was a “person” killed.  You might believe that a fetus is a person.  And you’re entitled to that view.  (For what it’s worth, it’s one that I happen to share.)  But the law doesn’t see it that way, and we are a nation of laws.  The fetus becomes a “person” the moment the fetus is born alive.  Ergo, guns kill more “people” than do abortions.  Case closed. 

 

What about the viability of a fetus?

Abortions generally can't be performed, per Roe vs. Wade in the third trimester (there are exceptions).  That 24-28 week standard is almost 50 years old.  Viability is actually sooner than that, based upon today's medicine.  So, yes, you want to play the "person" game, but actually a person can easily be considered, by law, as a fetus in the third trimester.  Looking at it that way, there are thousands of late-term abortions each year in the United States.  Still fewer than total gun deaths, but maybe as many as homicides.

 

I tend to stay away from abortion discussions, so I won't be responding to any of your replies on this, just so you know.

 

Edit:

2017 late term abortions were approximately 11,000 in 2017  https://s27589.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/CLI-Fact-Sheet-Late-Term-Abortion-February-24-2020.pdf

 

2017 gun homicides in 2017 were approximately 11,000 https://www.statista.com/statistics/249803/number-of-homicides-by-firearm-in-the-united-states/

 

You may not be as right as you think you are.

 

 

 

 

Edited by snafu
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3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

 

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

And there we go.  Gun violence has killed people. Abortion does not kill a person.  Case closed. 

 

***

 

And, by way of example in New York State:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.05,d

Earlier in this thread you kept saying guns kill more people. Did you just have an epiphany and now it's gun violence kills more people? Governor Northam confessed on tape that he would follow the mother's wishes if a planned abortion baby was actually born alive and kill it if she wanted that done. By your definition, he is a murderer. A black-faced murderer. 

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12 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Earlier in this thread you kept saying guns kill more people. Did you just have an epiphany and now it's gun violence kills more people? Governor Northam confessed on tape that he would follow the mother's wishes if a planned abortion baby was actually born alive and kill it if she wanted that done. By your definition, he is a murderer. A black-faced murderer. 

He's arguing that a fetus is not a person. So any number is higher than 0

 

I will also argue that the human brain doesn't fully develop until the age of 26...

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