Trent Murphy upped his game late last season and is better than many think

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

you're misreading what he said.

 

I know.  I already posted about it.  It was my bad as I was reading too many threads too quickly.

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

Why didn’t Shaq play more than him?  

 

That is a great question for McDermott and Frazier.  Shaq was more productive than Murphy.  My *guess* is that Murphy is McD's guy, Shaq was inherited from the previous regime.

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude is Chris Kelsey.  Not the worst but so easily replaceable for so much cheaper.  He had 3 sacks until that ? fest last game.  He has 24 sacks in 5 years, 10 FF, and 1 int.   He is a JAG and his best feature is setting the edge, which is something you don’t need to spend big money on.

 

this regime has done some really good things.  But they have some outdated views on football with the Star, Murphy, and need for a veteran rb. 

C.B., you're deep in that bunker right now. I have no great love for Murphy, but he was the best defensive player on the field in the most important game (the playoff game). 

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

But he couldn't seal an edge if he had a bucket full of sealant. Cut him. Move on. We should expect better. 

Where are you getting this from? That one play vs. Houston where Watson scored? That wasn't my read on his overall play over the course of 17 games. The advanced stats certainly don't back up your evaluation. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I know.  I already posted about it.  It was my bad as I was reading too many threads too quickly.

 

That is a great question for McDermott and Frazier.  Shaq was more productive than Murphy.  My *guess* is that Murphy is McD's guy, Shaq was inherited from the previous regime.

Jerry Hughes was inherited by the previous regime as well and played him a lot...and extended him.

 

McDemott and Frazier played Murphy because he was at least doing what they wanted him to do.  

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He broke his hand and missed a couple games as rookie. But I was referring mostly to it took well over two years to get 100% and playing well from the knee injury. From early August ‘17 to maybe mid November ‘19. He was playing but not great and not full speed. I like him. I want him to stay. I cannot say I’m confident he won’t get hurt this year the way I’m confident Hughes or Oliver or Addison or Jefferson et al won’t be hurt. Clowney would make everyone on that line better. We would be a Super Bowl contender IMO. Why not take that chance. 

I have no problem with signing Clowney, but I think it's extremely unlikely to happen. Simply put, there are other good teams out there trying to get over the top and which are in desperate need of elite edge player -- Seattle, for one!! They are in far worse shape than the Bills when it comes to edge players, and consequently will be more desperate. 

[OldTimer1960]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

We need villains.  Star and Murphy are it.

You are right about that!  Many on this board love having a few whipping boys to heap hate on.  
 

FWIW, I’m in no hurry to push Murphy out the door.  The team’s DEs are: Mario Addison, Jerry Hughes, Trent Murphy and 7th rounder Daryl Johnson.  Johnson has some interesting physical tools if he can get stronger and learn pro pass rush moves, but do you really want to go into the draft with Johnson as your #3 DE (if they release Murphy)?

[Happy]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Jerry Hughes was inherited by the previous regime as well and played him a lot...and extended him.

 

McDemott and Frazier played Murphy because he was at least doing what they wanted him to do.  

 

What did McD and Frazier want Murphy to do that Shaq didn't do better?  Stats don't support Murphy outperforming Shaq.

 

[thebandit27]

28 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Didn't mean to give the wrong impression, Murphy is DE depth.

 

Second sentence: no idea, probably not many.  My point is that he is basically a depth player that is used only as needed.  Not part of the planned rotation.

 

Because Murphy is trying to get back into the play from the RT pushing him 10 yards away from the action.

So a guy that played over 600 snaps and had 5 sacks on the #2 defensive unit in the league has no business in the rotation?

 

I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but that opinion makes absolutely no sense.

[Happy]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

So a guy that played over 600 snaps and had 5 sacks on the #2 defensive unit in the league has no business in the rotation?

 

I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but that opinion makes absolutely no sense.

 

He played over 600 snaps...so what?  That is way too many.  Murphy was also behind Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson in sacks, and was credited with something like 8 or 9 QB hits...one every other game.  Murphy did a terrible job of sealing the edge so misdirections, screens, and rushes around his edge were low hanging fruit for opposing offenses.  He is not a starting DE and the Redskins saw that.  My opinion makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you don't see it.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

He played over 600 snaps...so what?  That is way too many.  Murphy was also behind Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson in sacks, and was credited with something like 8 or 9 QB hits...one every other game.  Murphy did a terrible job of sealing the edge so misdirections, screens, and rushes around his edge were low hanging fruit for opposing offenses.  He is not a starting DE and the Redskins saw that.  My opinion makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you don't see it.

No, the opinion that a guy that was obviously a major contributor to a defense that finished #2 overall should only see the field in an emergency situation makes absolutely no sense. 

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

Where are you getting this from? That one play vs. Houston where Watson scored? That wasn't my read on his overall play over the course of 17 games. The advanced stats certainly don't back up your evaluation. 

 

Well I don't know where the advanced analytics crowd are getting their numbers from but from my rewatch of the games he was constantly out of his gap all year long. 

[BarleyNY]

I don’t get the Murphy hate at this point.  He took a long time to come back from his knee injury.  Everyone (pretty much) gave him a pass on that in 2018.  Now after the 2019 season, when he finally looked good, many are hating on him.  Oh, and this season he had a gimpy Hughes across from him.  Kudos to Hughes for gutting out last season, but it wasn’t like he was drawing attention away from Murphy.

 

So do what?  Open up a huge hole at DE to save $8M?  And these same people wanted to give Shaq $10M-$12M a year.  SMH.  I just don’t get it.

 

Edited to add:  Murphy had 2 sacks, 2 additional QB hits and a tackle for loss in the playoff game.  He might not have been our best defensive player, but he certainly was an asset. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by BarleyNY

[Royale with Cheese]

34 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

What did McD and Frazier want Murphy to do that Shaq didn't do better?  Stats don't support Murphy outperforming Shaq.

 

Maybe the coaches watch film and don’t box score scout?

26 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

He played over 600 snaps...so what?  That is way too many.  Murphy was also behind Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson in sacks, and was credited with something like 8 or 9 QB hits...one every other game.  Murphy did a terrible job of sealing the edge so misdirections, screens, and rushes around his edge were low hanging fruit for opposing offenses.  He is not a starting DE and the Redskins saw that.  My opinion makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you don't see it.

If he was as bad as you say, he wouldn’t have played as much.

 

Your opinion only makes sense if you firmly believe you’re right and McDermott and Frazier are wrong.

[Happy]

31 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

No, the opinion that a guy that was obviously a major contributor to a defense that finished #2 overall should only see the field in an emergency situation makes absolutely no sense. 

 

Fine.  You go ahead and settle on mediocrity.

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Maybe the coaches watch film and don’t box score scout?

If he was as bad as you say, he wouldn’t have played as much.

 

Your opinion only makes sense if you firmly believe you’re right and McDermott and Frazier are wrong.

 

Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play.  He also got more QB sacks.

 

McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second.

 

If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him?

[Beast]

15 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him?

I know!

 

I’m still amazed at why such a well run organization wouldn’t have done that.

[dave mcbride]

38 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Fine.  You go ahead and settle on mediocrity.

 

Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play.  He also got more QB sacks.

 

McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second.

 

If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him?

In 2014, the Panthers defense had 57 sacks. It was all about the d-line for that unit. They went 12-4.

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In 2014, the Panthers defense had 57 sacks. It was all about the d-line for that unit. They went 12-4.

 

McD was the DC, Ron Rivera was the HC.  Frazier was not there.  Completely different circumstances.

[Royale with Cheese]

59 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Fine.  You go ahead and settle on mediocrity.

 

Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play.  He also got more QB sacks.

 

McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second.

 

If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him?

If the defensive front comes second, why did we sign 3 defensive lineman this year, 2 last year and draft Ed Oliver?

 

I guess Micah Hyde is awful since Green Bay didn’t retain him.  
 

So it’s a yes then?  You are right and McDermott is wrong?

Edited March 19, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Fine.  You go ahead and settle on mediocrity.

 

Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play.  He also got more QB sacks.

 

McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second.

 

If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him?

You don’t seem to be making a consistent argument here.

 

You've gone from “you can’t keep Murphy” to “he’s not a starter” to “you can’t have him if you want to be a championship team” to “he’s a DE3” to “he shouldn’t even be in a rotation” to “of course he’s an NFL player” to, well, I’m not sure where we are now.

 

Point all along has been this: he’s under contract, he’s contributed to a very good defense, you’re unlikely to have 4 DEs better than him, you don’t need the cap space, so there’s really no point to cutting him.

[Happy]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If the defensive front comes second, why did we sign 3 defensive lineman this year, 2 last year and draft Ed Oliver?

 

I guess Micah Hyde is awful since Green Bay didn’t retain him.  
 

So it’s a yes then?  You are right and McDermott is wrong?

 

Why didn't they build the defensive front in 2017, yet they picked up Poyer, Hyde, and Tre?

Green Bay screwed up with Hyde, their loss is our gain.

Your words, not mine.  All I said was McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense, which they do.

[Happy]

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

You don’t seem to be making a consistent argument here.

 

You've gone from “you can’t keep Murphy” to “he’s not a starter” to “you can’t have him if you want to be a championship team” to “he’s a DE3” to “he shouldn’t even be in a rotation” to “of course he’s an NFL player” to, well, I’m not sure where we are now.

 

Point all along has been this: he’s under contract, he’s contributed to a very good defense, you’re unlikely to have 4 DEs better than him, you don’t need the cap space, so there’s really no point to cutting him.

 

My argument is consistent.  You're just rephrasing everything I said to try and strengthen your view of Murphy.  Good evening.

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Why didn't they build the defensive front in 2017, yet they picked up Poyer, Hyde, and Tre?

Green Bay screwed up with Hyde, their loss is our gain.

Your words, not mine.  All I said was McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense, which they do.

 

So lets get this straight.  Even though in the last 2 years, they've focused on the defensive line with the signings of Star, Murphy, Addison, Jefferson and Butler, J. Phillips....then drafted 2 defensive tackles high in both Oliver and H Phillips.  But since in 2017 they weren't focused on the DL....that means they are DB centric?

McDermott relies heavily on a strong DL rotation....hence why we've added 8 new pieces in 2 seasons.  I don't think they have a centric view on any positional unit.

 

You used Murphy not being very good because Washington didn't retain him.  I used your SAME exact analogy for Micah Hyde and Green Bay....literally the same.

 

[LB48]

9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He definitely played better late last year. I thought there was no chance that he was coming back this year. At this point I believe that he will be back. With that being said if the Bills were to chase Clowney or Ngakoue Murphy’s release will definitely be a part of that. The $8M of space from him would be needed.

Murphy and Harrison Phillips will complete the package the coaches want for 2020.

[Cal]

Murphy is not bad...but we need a premier edge rusher. Go get Clowney

[The Dean]

9 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I think that Clowney's injury history is what is keeping teams from considering him at present.  They aren't going to make a deal with him unless they can have their own doctors give him a physical -- and that's not going to change for some time to come.

 

 

I'm posting this here, as I can't see another place it fits, and I'm not sure it deserves its own thread.  I may change my mind and start one later, if this doesn't get any action here.

 

All this talk about not being able to conduct physicals makes little sense to me. Yes, it complicates the process a bit, but they can't figure out a way to get this done remotely? There are no decent local doctors (virtually anywhere) who would be willing to work with the team doctor linked in remotely? Ever hear or telemedicine? Why can't the team doctor be there, on facetime/skype or some medical equivalent? Xrays, ultrasound results, etc, can be transmitted virtually instantly to the team doctor. He can ask the local doctor to check this, or that. I just don't see this as being a huge issue, yet I've heard nobody suggest this as a solution.

 

What am I missing here?

[Dopey]

9 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

He had 3 sacks up until last game against Jets,  how can you justify 10 million for that kind of production and he is very weak against the run. People taking about his great playoff game should review the TD run where he could not bring down Watson.  You take the 8 million savings and add 5-6 and you could sign an upgrade

Bills should do everything they can to sign Gurley,  he is the star player this team needs.  Has both speed and power,  worth dropping Smith & Murphy which saves us 10 mill and then add another 6-7 million.

 

End of the day Sean wants to run the ball and this guy is a true workhorse back,  your not getting that from Singeltary who is not fast or big.

Don't you agree, Dude?

[BillsShredder83]

13 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Are we saving money or trying to win football games?

If we cut all our starters and bring in bums of the street maybe we can win the World Accountant Olympics lol

13 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Are we saving money or trying to win football games?

If we cut all our starters and bring in bums of the street maybe we can win the World Accountant Olympics lol

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, Dopey said:

Bills should do everything they can to sign Gurley,  he is the star player this team needs.  Has both speed and power,  worth dropping Smith & Murphy which saves us 10 mill and then add another 6-7 million.

 

End of the day Sean wants to run the ball and this guy is a true workhorse back,  your not getting that from Singeltary who is not fast or big.

Don't you agree, Dude?

 

Since the Bills aren't up against the cap, why do the Bills need to cut Murphy, a DE, and Smith, a TE, in order to sign Gurly, a RB?   They will still need a DE and a TE.   Moreover, Gurley is not going to get the kind of contract from his new team that he got from LA since the top of the RB has dropped significantly.

 

I would love the Bills to sign Gurley.  It's entirely doable from a cap perspective but it might not be the right fit from either the Bills' or Gurley's perspective.

 

 

7 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

If we cut all our starters and bring in bums of the street maybe we can win the World Accountant Olympics lol

 

?  Apparently some fans have enjoyed the past twenty years of the Bills sacrificing wins for profits a whole more than you or me. 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

But he couldn't seal an edge if he had a bucket full of sealant. Cut him. Move on. We should expect better. 

And this is my issue.  He cheated inside too often - resulted in some nice sacks but he got burned more than any other lineman, based on my untrained eye.  Drove me nuts.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And this is my issue.  He cheated inside too often - resulted in some nice sacks but he got burned more than any other lineman, based on my untrained eye.  Drove me nuts.

Me too, how hard is it to keep outside leverage?

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And this is my issue.  He cheated inside too often - resulted in some nice sacks but he got burned more than any other lineman, based on my untrained eye.  Drove me nuts.

 

That is exactly what I saw as well Coach. To me he looks like he is a guy who knows he isn't gonna beat anyone with speed or moves and he isn't a great reader of the play so he just cheats on every snap. It resulted in a couple of big plays for the defense over the course of the year but I can think of 3 or 4 drives off the top of my head - the Giants opening scoring drive, the Dallas opening scoring drive, there was a Baltimore drive middle of that game and there was a drive in the first Miami game where he was responsible for giving up huge plays against us.