Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

That’s alright, YOU don’t have to come up with the plan. I think somebody will be able to find a mix of tailgating and bars/restaurants to make it work. They certainly know this is an issue, and also an opportunity to make more money. 

 

Again, I don’t care where they play as long as it’s still in WNY. I’m not afraid of the inevitable change, whether it be in OP or downtown. Smart people are working on this. 

Well atleast we can always have a civil talk, in the end I agree with you 

 

BUT

 

The 1 point I've been trying to make this whole time is HOW IMPOVERISHED BUFFALO IS. If people only know the area cus they only go to a few Bills game a year they don't get a real sense of what the City really is

 

Over 30% poverty rate and close to a 50% Child poverty rate. The city is super impoverished and they don't need and can't handle that burden

 

If pegula ponys up 100% awesome... But the city can't foot it, taxes can't go up for these people who aren't as lucky as us

 

And I've been a Buffalonian my whole life just blessed

[apuszczalowski]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well atleast we can always have a civil talk, in the end I agree with you 

 

BUT

 

The 1 point I've been trying to make this whole time is HOW IMPOVERISHED BUFFALO IS. If people only know the area cus they only go to a few Bills game a year they don't get a real sense of what the City really is

 

Over 30% poverty rate and close to a 50% Child poverty rate. The city is super impoverished and they don't need and can't handle that burden

 

If pegula ponys up 100% awesome... But the city can't foot it, taxes can't go up for these people who aren't as lucky as us

 

And I've been a Buffalonian my whole life just blessed

Then it's simple, the area cannot afford the luxury of having an NFL franchise.

 

Maybe they can get an XFL franchise instead of the league takes off.

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

Buffalo will never have the biggest and most luxurious - those regions that can support that don't need to be multi-use. But a region like WNY has to make the most of their tax dollars for luxuries such as Stadiums... Convention Centers, etc.  WNY will not get tax dollars for BOTH in our lifetime.

 

And regarding other successful multi use stadium convention centers - look no further than Lucas Oil Stadium and Convention Center. Their combined stadium has a TON of events planned - check them out here: https://www.icclos.com/upcoming-events/ or here

 

It's ok Mr WEO - we get it - you're a tailgating fan - not a BILLS fan.

 

Maybe you don't understand that Buffalo is one of the most impoverished places in the country

 

30% poverty Rate in the city and close to 50% child poverty rate. They are struggling bad. They don't need any more taxes or for cost of living to go up

 

People in the burbs and out of state want it downtown cus it's a new shiny thing..   people who are struggling in the city , the majority, don't want to become homeless

 

You , me and mostly everybody here is doing well... That's not the majority of the city

2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Then it's simple, the area cannot afford the luxury of having an NFL franchise.

 

Maybe they can get an XFL franchise instead of the league takes off.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the burbs and OP is DRASTICALLY different than Buffalo

@Boatdrinks

 

Idk what is so confusing? You don't think buffalo isn't super impoverished?

 

I made up no statistics

[buffalobillsfootball]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Maybe you don't understand that Buffalo is one of the most impoverished places in the country

 

30% poverty Rate in the city and close to 50% child poverty rate. They are struggling bad. They don't need any more taxes or for cost of living to go up

 

People in the burbs and out of state want it downtown cus it's a new shiny thing..   people who are struggling in the city , the majority, don't want to become homeless

 

You , me and mostly everybody here is doing well... That's not the majority of the city

 

I'm just curious - how old are you and what do you do for a living?  You fail take a holistic approach to how this thing is going to get funded.

 

If you think City residents are going to get saddled paying for ALL of this - you're kidding yourself.  

 

Most of the public component will come from the State and the County - and we should also look to the NY Power Authority for funds, as well.

 

WE KNOW THE CITY ITSELF can take on this burden on its own; MOST CITIES CAN'T no matter how wealthy or poor the area is... You think Detroit residents paid exclusively for FORD Field or the new Red Wings arena?

 

smh

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Maybe you don't understand that Buffalo is one of the most impoverished places in the country

 

30% poverty Rate in the city and close to 50% child poverty rate. They are struggling bad. They don't need any more taxes or for cost of living to go up

 

People in the burbs and out of state want it downtown cus it's a new shiny thing..   people who are struggling in the city , the majority, don't want to become homeless

 

You , me and mostly everybody here is doing well... That's not the majority of the city

Have you been in the city lately ? I live downtown and it’s far from impoverished here. Are there impoverished areas in the city ? Sure, but those folks probably aren’t paying property taxes. That’s what your numbers reflect. Those numbers aren’t a reflection of people living in the city that are doing well. I also don’t see many people who live in my general area of the city that have children. They’d probably move to the ‘burbs or South Buffalo if they did. You have to look at what numbers really mean. 

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

I'm just curious - how old are you and what do you do for a living?  You fail take a holistic approach to how this thing is going to get funded.

 

If you think City residents are going to get saddled paying for ALL of this - you're kidding yourself.  

 

Most of the public component will come from the State and the County - and we should also look to the NY Power Authority for funds, as well.

 

WE KNOW THE CITY ITSELF can take on this burden on its own; MOST CITIES CAN'T no matter how wealthy or poor the area is... You think Detroit residents paid exclusively for FORD Field or the new Red Wings arena?

 

smh

 

 

I've been a football coach and player and scout for 30 years I don't do math

 

And I never said they would have to pay it all. That's ludicrous

 

And I care about people . I walk the streets of the easy side and west side and see how much they struggle, I don't want them to have to pony up anything.. that's my point

 

And I would assume their taxes would go up

 

And it's funny you come in this thread pointing fingers and saying who is a real bills fan or just likes to tailgate lol like you can make that call

 

My family has had seasons for for like 40 years, I spend thousands and thousands on the Bills each year and they mean everything to me.. I would assume the majority feel the same seeing they are ON A BILLS FORUM

8 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Have you been in the city lately ? I live downtown and it’s far from impoverished here. Are there impoverished areas in the city ? Sure, but those folks probably aren’t paying property taxes. That’s what your numbers reflect. Those numbers aren’t a reflection of people living in the city that are doing well. I also don’t see many people who live in my general area of the city that have children. They’d probably move to the ‘burbs or South Buffalo if they did. You have to look at what numbers really mean. 

Downtown is gorgeous. I have a house on the Eastside

 

I see poverty everyday and I don't like it

 

It sounds like you live in Allentown or off Elmwood

Edited February 12, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I've been a football coach and player and scout for 30 years I don't do math

 

And I never said they would have to pay it all. That's ludicrous

 

And I care about people . I walk the streets of the easy side and west side and see how much they struggle, I don't want them to have to pony up anything.. that's my point

 

And I would assume their taxes would go up

Downtown is gorgeous. I have a house on the Eastside

 

I see poverty everyday and I don't like it

These things get paid for in a certain way. Other NFL cities have already done this. Buffalo is not going to reinvent the wheel here when it comes to how stadiums get built. 

[ColoradoBills]

23 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Yep - Major infrastructure changes will need to take place... Lot of public money will have to be poured into this whether the pegulas are buying the stadium or not.  I do think since PSLs probably don't work here to the extent they need to, public money will get put into it.  

 

Conway park would be my pick?  Build some moveable bridges, and you have a ton of parking.  Rip down the projects and you have even more - plus what you have for sabres games etc.  I would assume a garage is on the table?  Maybe another hotel - near the casino?  There is a lot to think about there.

 

I think it's going in the north west part of Conway Park by Chicago and Miami Streets.

Pedestrian bridge to link to Riverworks and Parking in the Perry Projects with reconfigured Thruway exchanges to get in and out quick.

A stadium station for rapid transit completes the plan.

 

I know the people in Buffalo/Erie County/NY State got a lot to work out but I think Terry and Kim get it done.

A "Buffalo Theme" design like you and others have been talking about would be cool.

 

If they can't get this to work they will go with Plan B at New Era.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by ColoradoBills

[apuszczalowski]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the burbs and OP is DRASTICALLY different than Buffalo

@Boatdrinks

 

Idk what is so confusing? You don't think buffalo isn't super impoverished?

 

I made up no statistics

I never said you made anything up. It doesn't matter of the stadium is in OP or Downtown, the funding will still be from the same sources. The poor people downtown will still be paying the same whether its built next to the arena or next to New Era (or New Era is renovated). 

 

You keep bringing up how poor Buffalo is, and I'm not disputing any of that, but of it's as poor as you say and they can't afford a new or highly renovated stadium, then unfortunately they can afford the luxury of being the home of an NFL franchise.

 

You know what could help out the poor people in Buffalo? The possible property value increase they could see of having a new stadium and downtown redevelopment that could come from it.

[Buffalo716]

28 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

I never said you made anything up. It doesn't matter of the stadium is in OP or Downtown, the funding will still be from the same sources. The poor people downtown will still be paying the same whether its built next to the arena or next to New Era (or New Era is renovated). 

 

You keep bringing up how poor Buffalo is, and I'm not disputing any of that, but of it's as poor as you say and they can't afford a new or highly renovated stadium, then unfortunately they can afford the luxury of being the home of an NFL franchise.

 

You know what could help out the poor people in Buffalo? The possible property value increase they could see of having a new stadium and downtown redevelopment that could come from it.

I wasnt referring to you when I said that  I made Nothing up

 

Yes thats hypothetically true. But gentrification also pushes more people out of neighborhoods than it does help them

 

The rich people of Buffalo will buy up that property from the ones struggling

 

And I assume there will be state , county taxes and the more pegula spends the less taxpayers do. And again I've said numerous times that I only am speaking for the poor that I know exist

 

Deep poverty is making less than 10k a year which is hardly enough to live on. Of the households in the buffalo Niagara region almost 50% of the deep poverty is in the city of Buffalo

 

The 2015 upgrades cost Erie county tax payers 108 dollars per year per household.  They footed 100 of 130 million dollars.

 

If taxpayers pay 75% on a 700 million to 1 billion dollar stadium we will pay about 700-800 per year to foot it

 

Not crazy much for people not struggling but imagine having to foot 800 per year when you make 6k. I worry about people

Edited February 12, 2020 by Buffalo716

[buffalobillsfootball]

43 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I wasnt referring to you when I said that  I made Nothing up

 

Yes thats hypothetically true. But gentrification also pushes more people out of neighborhoods than it does help them

 

The rich people of Buffalo will buy up that property from the ones struggling

 

And I assume there will be state , county taxes and the more pegula spends the less taxpayers do. And again I've said numerous times that I only am speaking for the poor that I know exist

 

Deep poverty is making less than 10k a year which is hardly enough to live on. Of the households in the buffalo Niagara region almost 50% of the deep poverty is in the city of Buffalo

 

The 2015 upgrades cost Erie county tax payers 108 dollars per year per household.  They footed 100 of 130 million dollars.

 

If taxpayers pay 75% on a 700 million to 1 billion dollar stadium we will pay about 700-800 per year to foot it

 

Not crazy much for people not struggling but imagine having to foot 800 per year when you make 6k. I worry about people

 

So - the poor will pay the same whether the team builds all new in OP,  Buffalo or renovates.  So, what you are saying is - we shouldn't have a team at all?  

 

That's all I hear you saying...

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

WEO isn't a fan, he's our resident troll.

 

Nah, I only "troll" out poorly thought out posts....

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

So - the poor will pay the same whether the team builds all new in OP,  Buffalo or renovates.  So, what you are saying is - we shouldn't have a team at all?  

 

That's all I hear you saying...

No I'm saying pegula needs to foot 70% because that COULD REVITALIZE Buffalo because tax payers didn't foot the majority

 

It can be 500 million in OP or 1 billion downtown that is a drastic difference. 

 

As I've said REPEATEDLY.  I'm a die hard bills fan, I ONLY want them in Buffalo. My family has been season ticket holders for 2 generations and I spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands on our bills

 

My favorite season in Buffalo? Not summer or fall... bills season

 

If Pegula puts 75% up it can go anywhere he wants, it won't kill me at the end of the day

 

If taxpayers have to foot 75% there is a HUGE difference between a billion dollar stadium downtown and a 500-600k stadium in OP

 

If it's the latter OP makes sense

[buffalobillsfootball]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

No I'm saying pegula needs to foot 70% because that COULD REVITALIZE Buffalo because tax payers didn't foot the majority

 

It can be 500 million in OP or 1 billion downtown that is a drastic difference. 

 

As I've said REPEATEDLY.  I'm a die hard bills fan, I ONLY want them in Buffalo. My family has been season ticket holders for 2 generations and I spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands on our bills

 

My favorite season in Buffalo? Not summer or fall... bills season

 

If Pegula puts 75% up it can go anywhere he wants, it won't kill me at the end of the day

 

If taxpayers have to foot 75% there is a HUGE difference between a billion dollar stadium downtown and a 500-600k stadium in OP

 

If it's the latter OP makes sense

 

I can't imagine tax payers footing 75% of any related stadium related tab...

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well atleast we can always have a civil talk, in the end I agree with you 

 

BUT

 

The 1 point I've been trying to make this whole time is HOW IMPOVERISHED BUFFALO IS. If people only know the area cus they only go to a few Bills game a year they don't get a real sense of what the City really is

 

Over 30% poverty rate and close to a 50% Child poverty rate. The city is super impoverished and they don't need and can't handle that burden

 

If pegula ponys up 100% awesome... But the city can't foot it, taxes can't go up for these people who aren't as lucky as us

 

And I've been a Buffalonian my whole life just blessed

 

I get it. I went to St Joes and every once in a while they do a road show traveling around inviting alumni to events hoping for donations. They include a lot of statistics that are rather shocking regarding poverty rates and the need for scholarship money. It’s real, I know. 

 

However, similar financial situations exist around the country. There will be a mix of funding that will mean  some financial pain for everybody. Exactly how that plays out, we’ll just have to wait and see. 

 

 

.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Augie

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

I can't imagine tax payers footing 75% of any related stadium related tab...

We taxpayers footed like 80% of the refurb 8 years ago

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

Buffalo will never have the biggest and most luxurious - those regions that can support that don't need to be multi-use. But a region like WNY has to make the most of their tax dollars for luxuries such as Stadiums... Convention Centers, etc.  WNY will not get tax dollars for BOTH in our lifetime.

 

And regarding other successful multi use stadium convention centers - look no further than Lucas Oil Stadium and Convention Center. Their combined stadium has a TON of events planned - check them out here: https://www.icclos.com/upcoming-events/ or here

 

It's ok Mr WEO - we get it - you're a tailgating fan - not a BILLS fan.

 

 

Who doesn't like tailgating?  And what does that have to do with this conversation?

 

If you clicked on those events, you will see that very few of them is actually in the stadium, the rest are in the convention center.  Since you have eliminated the possibility of both an stadium and a convention center for Buffalo, then almost all of those events would not take place in the venue (stadium).

 

So I will ask you again--look at the barely filled schedules of ATT in Dallas and MetLife stadiums and you'll see that a stadium in Buffalo will hardly be used other than for Bills games. 

 

But let's forget all of that...the point of this thread is to discuss whether "the League" will "force" the Bills to build a new stadium.  So indeed, let us look at Lucas Oil Stadium.  New place, nice stadium.  Has all the appropriate amenities and luxuries.  Despite this, it would be 5 more years before the Colts revenue cracked the 300 million mark.  Average ticket price? $94.  Total team revenue?  $393 million.  All pretty much the same as the Bills.  Both at or near the NFL bottom.

 

So what do the Colts do at this point to get out of their perennial spot in the revenue basement?  ANd why would anyone think the outcome would be different in a smaller, less affluent town like Buffalo if they had a new stadium?

 

 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I get it. I went to St Joes and every once in a while they do a road show traveling around inviting alumni to events hoping for donations. They include a lot of statistics that are rather shocking regarding poverty rates and the need for scholarship money. It’s real, I know. 

 

However, similar financial situations exist around the country. There will be a mix of funding that will mean  some financial pain for everybody. Exactly how that plays out, we’ll just have to wait and see. 

 

 

.

Thanks again for civility

 

Rare in the thread, just alot of insults being thrown

[apuszczalowski]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who doesn't like tailgating?  And what does that have to do with this conversation?

 

If you clicked on those events, you will see that very few of them is actually in the stadium, the rest are in the convention center.  Since you have eliminated the possibility of both an stadium and a convention center for Buffalo, then almost all of those events would not take place in the venue (stadium).

 

So I will ask you again--look at the barely filled schedules of ATT in Dallas and MetLife stadiums and you'll see that a stadium in Buffalo will hardly be used other than for Bills games. 

 

But let's forget all of that...the point of this thread is to discuss whether "the League" will "force" the Bills to build a new stadium.  So indeed, let us look at Lucas Oil Stadium.  New place, nice stadium.  Has all the appropriate amenities and luxuries.  Despite this, it would be 5 more years before the Colts revenue cracked the 300 million mark.  Average ticket price? $94.  Total team revenue?  $393 million.  All pretty much the same as the Bills.  Both at or near the NFL bottom.

 

So what do the Colts do at this point to get out of their perennial spot in the revenue basement?  ANd why would anyone think the outcome would be different in a smaller, less affluent town like Buffalo if they had a new stadium?

 

 

AT&T in Dallas and Met Life in NY don't have to be multi use because they are in some of the largest cities in the country and can afford to build stadiums that can be used less. The reason people bring it up for places like Buffalo is because that what makes it a little more feasible and economical for the area and taxpayer money to have something that can be used for more then football. The convention centre is brought up for the facility to double as a convention centre also during the rest of the year, then Buffalo doesn't have to worry about picking and choosing one or the other to pay for.

[buffalobillsfootball]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who doesn't like tailgating?  And what does that have to do with this conversation?

 

If you clicked on those events, you will see that very few of them is actually in the stadium, the rest are in the convention center.  Since you have eliminated the possibility of both an stadium and a convention center for Buffalo, then almost all of those events would not take place in the venue (stadium).

 

So I will ask you again--look at the barely filled schedules of ATT in Dallas and MetLife stadiums and you'll see that a stadium in Buffalo will hardly be used other than for Bills games. 

 

But let's forget all of that...the point of this thread is to discuss whether "the League" will "force" the Bills to build a new stadium.  So indeed, let us look at Lucas Oil Stadium.  New place, nice stadium.  Has all the appropriate amenities and luxuries.  Despite this, it would be 5 more years before the Colts revenue cracked the 300 million mark.  Average ticket price? $94.  Total team revenue?  $393 million.  All pretty much the same as the Bills.  Both at or near the NFL bottom.

 

So what do the Colts do at this point to get out of their perennial spot in the revenue basement?  ANd why would anyone think the outcome would be different in a smaller, less affluent town like Buffalo if they had a new stadium?

 

 

 

Maximizing tax dollar spend - killing two birds with one stone.

[Mr. WEO]

22 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

AT&T in Dallas and Met Life in NY don't have to be multi use because they are in some of the largest cities in the country and can afford to build stadiums that can be used less. The reason people bring it up for places like Buffalo is because that what makes it a little more feasible and economical for the area and taxpayer money to have something that can be used for more then football. The convention centre is brought up for the facility to double as a convention centre also during the rest of the year, then Buffalo doesn't have to worry about picking and choosing one or the other to pay for.

 

If Buffalo/Erie county wants a new convention center to add to the one they already have (and which is not fully booked), they are free to do so.  It would still leave the stadium empty for the vast majority of the year....because there simply are not enough events that require a stadium venue.  Stadiums don't "double as conventions centers" very often. At Lucas Oil, the convention center  is  a different but connected facility.

 

So why would Pegula want to contribute to a convention center attached to his stadium---or have it linked at all to a handout for his stadium?  The added cost would doom his request.

 

Why would Erie/Buffalo/NYS want to pony up for another convention center AND a chunk of the stadium cost?  To host a few more (smaller) convention events that the current convention center may be missing out on?

 

This makes little sense.

 

Also, "Dallas" and NYC (NJ?) didn't build those stadiums.

[SoCal Deek]

Why is this even a debate?  It all comes down to available money. The current stadium, in its current configuration HAS to be either altered or replaced within the next five years. It will either be renovated in Orchard Park or rebuilt downtown. The latter option will cost over twice as much. If the money isn't there they will choose the former...and then sell the idea as the preferred option. Just enjoy the ride.

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

Maximizing tax dollar spend - killing two birds with one stone.

 

The convention center is not the stadium.  it is a separate building.  You have already concluded that Buffalo can't get both a stadium and convention center, so how would be "killing two birds with one stone"if the Bills new stadium had no associated convention center?

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Why is this even a debate?  It all comes down to available money. The current stadium, in its current configuration HAS to be either altered or replaced within the next five years. It will either be renovated in Orchard Park or rebuilt downtown. The latter option will cost over twice as much. If the money isn't there they will choose the former...and then sell the idea as the preferred option. Just enjoy the ride.

 

He has the money; it's there..

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The convention center is not the stadium.  it is a separate building.  You have already concluded that Buffalo can't get both a stadium and convention center, so how would be "killing two birds with one stone"if the Bills new stadium had no associated convention center?

A smart design would be to incorporate both facilities in one project with shared parking, concourse support, and service requirements. But....there may not be the money to build them both at the same time.

[buffalobillsfootball]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The convention center is not the stadium.  it is a separate building.  You have already concluded that Buffalo can't get both a stadium and convention center, so how would be "killing two birds with one stone"if the Bills new stadium had no associated convention center?

 

I don't care if they build a new convention center with a new stadium downtown or not - the benefits of putting the stadium downtown outweighs anything they do in OP.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

I don't care if they build a new convention center with a new stadium downtown or not - the benefits of putting the stadium downtown outweighs anything they do in OP.

It will not come down to 'benefits'. It will come down to available capital.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

I don't care if they build a new convention center with a new stadium downtown or not - the benefits of putting the stadium downtown outweighs anything they do in OP.

 

There's no evidence that that is true, but you are free to believe it.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

A smart design would be to incorporate both facilities in one project with shared parking, concourse support, and service requirements. But....there may not be the money to build them both at the same time.

 

But that would mean the public would be on the hook for far more than just stadium money.  They would have to build another convention center as well.

 

In the end, they would have a massive financial commitment to an underbooked convention (2 of them now) center and part of a football stadium they would not own.

 

That would be a very bad use of public funds.  It has been proven over and over that financing stadiums and adding convention center square footage are horrible public investments.  This would be the daily double of waste.

 

Let Pegula build the stadium downtown...or wherever he wants.  Maybe toss him a few exit ramps or whatnot if needed for access.  But that's it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[buffalobillsfootball]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

There's no evidence that that is true, but you are free to believe it.

 

I'm sorry, I will just discount all the road games I have attended throughout the years and let you make up my mind.

 

Help me out here wise one - are we saving all the land in Buffalo for all these companies that are lining up to build in Buffalo?  

 

Do we not have blown out corners all throughout the central business district - sitting there as gravel parking lots - just waiting to be developed?

 

You think developing in area near the casino - is going to destroy our future and vitality of Buffalo?

 

Buffalo needs to build from the core out - we cannot keep sprawling our resources outside the city.  We need to capitalize on these opportunities - and not sit here in fear that we will no longer be able to bash our bodies into tables in OP.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by buffalobillsfootball

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The convention center is not the stadium.  it is a separate building.  You have already concluded that Buffalo can't get both a stadium and convention center, so how would be "killing two birds with one stone"if the Bills new stadium had no associated convention center?

 

He has the money; it's there..

 

 

...who?...Pegula or Big Fredo?............

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

WEO isn't a fan, he's our resident troll.

 

you are insulting trolls, sounds not easy to do but you did it.

4 hours ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

WE KNOW THE CITY ITSELF can take on this burden on its own; MOST CITIES CAN'T no matter how wealthy or poor the area is... You think Detroit residents paid exclusively for FORD Field or the new Red Wings arena?

 

Very confusing: Buffalo CAN but most cities CAN'T?  

I think if they move stadium downtown Erie County will not contribute other allowing Bills to use stadium as training facility since they have no other client for it.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think it's going in the north west part of Conway Park by Chicago and Miami Streets.

Pedestrian bridge to link to Riverworks and Parking in the Perry Projects with reconfigured Thruway exchanges to get in and out quick.

A stadium station for rapid transit completes the plan.

 

I know the people in Buffalo/Erie County/NY State got a lot to work out but I think Terry and Kim get it done.

A "Buffalo Theme" design like you and others have been talking about would be cool.

 

If they can't get this to work they will go with Plan B at New Era.

 

 

 

 

 

Some sort of transportation from other areas would be huge.  Metro rail gets you like... 15-20 minute walk away - which isn't really ideal.  Buses with traffic down there... ubers... some semblence of tailgaiting - its all tough.  Good thing Pegulas have a strong relationship with local government.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

But that would mean the public would be on the hook for far more than just stadium money.  They would have to build another convention center as well.

 

In the end, they would have a massive financial commitment to an underbooked convention (2 of them now) center and part of a football stadium they would not own.

 

That would be a very bad use of public funds.  It has been proven over and over that financing stadiums and adding convention center square footage are horrible public investments.  This would be the daily double of waste.

 

Let Pegula build the stadium downtown...or wherever he wants.  Maybe toss him a few exit ramps or whatnot if needed for access.  But that's it. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not 'voting' for any particular design solution. I'm only saying that if you are going to build two venues, whoever is footing the bill would be better served by building them on the same site at the same time so you only have to build supporting infrastructure once.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...who?...Pegula or Big Fredo?............

 

 

Pegula for sure.  

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not 'voting' for any particular design solution. I'm only saying that if you are going to build two venues, whoever is footing the bill would be better served by building them on the same site at the same time so you only have to build supporting infrastructure once.

 

 

True but both aren't necessary nor desirable for either party paying.

3 hours ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

I'm sorry, I will just discount all the road games I have attended throughout the years and let you make up my mind.

 

Help me out here wise one - are we saving all the land in Buffalo for all these companies that are lining up to build in Buffalo?  

 

Do we not have blown out corners all throughout the central business district - sitting there as gravel parking lots - just waiting to be developed?

 

You think developing in area near the casino - is going to destroy our future and vitality of Buffalo?

 

Buffalo needs to build from the core out - we cannot keep sprawling our resources outside the city.  We need to capitalize on these opportunities - and not sit here in fear that we will no longer be able to bash our bodies into tables in OP.

 

 

 

Not sure what you are talking about at this point.

 

Who's "we"?

 

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm guessing the biggest reason so many of you don't want it downtown is the fear of limiting tailgating. Having tailgating in Bills owned lots only helps in limiting the table slamming and drunken behavior. It also makes it that the Bills get all the profits from tailgating. 

[The Frankish Reich]

On 2/9/2020 at 2:53 PM, Buffalo716 said:

That's totally an opinion and urban stadiums have not shown to bring an uptick in the economy

 

I would never NEVER NEVERRRR bar hop around the city pre gaming for a Bills game and lots won't. First the new ticket prices in the stadium will be crazy and you're going to be spending buckoo bucks, bar hopping around the city pre gaming would make it a ludicrously expensive day

 

And the majority of buffalonians are hard working paycheck to paycheck people. They will not spend that kind of money

 

Buffalo has something 99% of NFL franchises don't have , a college atmosphere and camaraderie... That all goes away if it's downtown

 

I live in the city, we don't need a stadium downtown

I mean, I know Bills tailgaters have a rep, but even in bars you can drink a helluva lot of beer for 50 bucks.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I mean, I know Bills tailgaters have a rep, but even in bars you can drink a helluva lot of beer for 50 bucks.

I'm not a huge drinker and when I drink I drink whiskey but 50 bucks can definitely get you 4-5 crown and cokes downtown which is decent

 

But I can get 3 bottles at the liquor store for that price and supply the whole tailgate

 

Then you gotta buy food and drinks for the family, parking, etc and the cost definitely adds up

 

I also made a point how 20k downtown and the streets are packed and You can hardly get to the bar. 70k would be insane

[Augie]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm not a huge drinker and when I drink I drink whiskey but 50 bucks can definitely get you 4-5 crown and cokes downtown which is decent

 

But I can get 3 bottles at the liquor store for that price and supply the whole tailgate

 

Then you gotta buy food and drinks for the family, parking, etc and the cost definitely adds up

 

I also made a point how 20k downtown and the streets are packed and You can hardly get to the bar. 70k would be insane

 

I think you need to accept that part of the reason for the move is to generate more income for the team. Yes, it will probably be more expensive in many cases. There will be a way to do it on a budget, but it will be harder not to share more cash with the Bills in some way. 

 

We have some close friends living in Jacksonville with 6-8 season tickets. Four of those seats are outdoors, but with access to a club area with free beer/wine and food (liquor is extra). That was where we did our “tailgating”.  This is not steamed hot dogs, They have carving stations and I enjoyed the sautéed sea bass. Those tickets were $380 about 15-20 years ago, and that area was full. This is Jacksonville!  

 

It will not be cheaper, but there will be affordable options if you know what you’re doing. That’s just the way I see it. Time will tell. 

[eanyills]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why would Erie/Buffalo/NYS want to pony up for another convention center AND a chunk of the stadium cost?  To host a few more (smaller) convention events that the current convention center may be missing out on?

 

This makes little sense.

Re: Convention Center

 

I know for a fact that the city put feelers out to local developers in regards to a new convention center. There was never an official RFP issued but a bigger and modernized convention center is on the city’s radar.

 

Now, the city’s broke and I’m not sure how high up a new convention center is on the state’s priority list of things to help Buffalo out with considering the looming stadium issue and Metro Rail expansion but it’s definitely something local leadership is pursuing on some level.

 

That said, there’s a lot of things that the city has and still is “pursuing” that never got off the ground. The city’s been sitting on the Mohawk Ramp RFP for like three years now so nothing comes quickly in this city.

 

So I’m not saying it’s a good idea or that it’s going to ever happen, just that the city has previously expressed interest in getting a new convention center built.

Edited February 13, 2020 by eanyills

[K-9]

Regarding the convention center, Buffalo should tear down that abomination currently in place. That monstrosity ruined that great vista up Genesee St. from Niagara Square and that corrugated concrete look has always been fugly.