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Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

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4 minutes ago, MJS said:

The URL reads 2010 for some reason.

 

Yeah, it's odd.  But I'm pretty sure the figures are for 2019...

 

Revenue of National Football League (NFL) teams 2019

Published by Christina Gough, Sep 9, 2019
 The statistic ranks all franchises of the National Football League according to revenue in 2019. The Dallas Cowboys generated 950 million U.S. dollars in revenue in that year, the most of all NFL teams.
 
Edited by Lurker

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I think we'll know what direction things are going in if the Jags pull up stakes for London Town

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4 hours ago, T master said:

Despite the love for the game & the increase in fans in B/lo watching our team due to doing better with all the young talent Beane & company have brought in i believe the Pegs could use this information to argue that they don't want or need a new stadium in western NY . If you read the first line in this article it's a tell all for that, seeing as attendance is lower to do the stadium experience why would any team want to spend a Billion $ on a new stadium ?

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/08/rams-and-chargers-stadium-promises-big-breakthrough-with-4k-video/

 

Then there is the thought that the NFL doesn't really & truly care about what the fans think when it comes to decision making the only thing they care about is the $$ in this article it goes as far as saying they don't care about 2 very important pieces of the games success 1 being the fans 2 being the players, with out either of which the game wouldn't be as profitable as it is ! 

 

The 3rd & 4th paragraph in this explains a lot about what the NFL is all about . Please actually read them before coming to any conclusions ...

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/07/poll-shows-strong-fan-opposition-to-17-game-season/

 

If this continues to go as it has been going only the true Bills fans that have followed the team since the 90's will be in the stadium because the younger generation being lazy as they are & being less than their tougher relatives that raised them will rather sit in a warm living room watching the game than go to a nice brand new Billion $ stadium just because there is to much effort involved !!

 

Eventually if the viewership & revenues due to these things continue to head south the NFL may have to do what the WWE is doing & even the NFL to in some respects as far as they did with MNF in changing the games to a PPV type experience to off set the loss of fans actually going to the stadium .

 

Okay flame away Bills fans, I do know one thing for sure that no matter what the out come of scheduling or TV viewership Bills fans will always have their opinions & won't stop short of hanging some one like me in the square to burn me at the stake in the social media forum so have at it let the linching begin !!

 

--every fan who voted "NO" on an extra game will watch every extra game like all the rest.  Their position on this is dubious.

 

--"the NFL" is every owner, and of course they (like every MLB and NBA owner) cares mainly about the "$$".  Pegula didn't buy the Bills because he picked Buffalo to love.  He did it because it was probably THE best investment he could make with that much cash:  guaranteed high rate of appreciation, guaranteed income covering all player costs,  merchandise and ticket money from longstanding fan base.  Essentially, a massive annual revenue stream that requires virtually no superior performance at any level of the organization.

 

--players seem most ccerned about "player safety" after they retire.  They spend their playing days delivering (or trying to avoid) cheap shots, late hits, endless intentional helmet to helmet hits.  

 

--the reps from the NFLPA have been negotiating to this point.....with 17 games firmly on the table.  They haven't taken it off.  So go beef to them.

 

--if Pegula thinks that a new or refurbished stadium will make him money, he'll do it.  

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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

- I think you’ll see some PSL’s (but don’t think SF think Minnesota). They will be mostly in like the $500 range. There will be some higher but we aren’t talking $100k PSLs. 
 

- Additionally, they can build out around the stadium like New England. The Bills will own/control some bars and restaurants in the area and can generate revenue that way (whether directly or indirectly). They can do membership type clubs within the stadium (kind of like the Harbor Club). 


- They can create revenue generating assets. When we renegotiated our state deal here in New Orleans they basically offered us a check. What we countered with were some infrastructure assets that we could monetize. We felt that was a better long-term strategy. That’s why you see the video boards on the outside of the arena in NOLA. You are trying to create “things” to sell to sponsors.
 

- You’d also have a “clean slate” with a new stadium. New Era is a weird situation where the best amenities are not tied to the best locations. In a new stadium you can pair the best locations with the best amenities to drive revenue. Think about the “Legends Club” in Yankee Stadium (obviously with lower prices). If you want to sit 1st row behind home plate, you get an open bar, 5 star buffet, etc.. That’s better than having to pick elite amenities or elite location. You can scale it out.

 

These are just a few ways off the top of my head but there are tons and tons more. 

 

 

add a condo development to the shopping and you'll have sustainable financing

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1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:


Ethan, I kind of like the Seattle layout as long as in our stadium, they do heat the seats as you mentioned.  You kind of get the best of both outside and inside.

AFL, I’m so sorry about you’re wife, and her brother.  Sounds like a tough couple of years.  Aruba is beautiful, and the Sunshine you get used to it like tHe one in Buffalo.  If I remember correctly, it’s the Skyway right?

Seattle would be a great stadium to copy

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4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The least valuable franchise in the league: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/amp/

30th in revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/

 

They charge significantly less than other markets. The stadium doesn’t generate the other revenue streams of others, etc..

 

I PROMISE, PROMISE, PROMISE, a new stadium or complete renovation ($500M+) will be happening. This is not something that “might” happen. 


I think it’s a renovation with what they have done to the locker rooms and the state of art workout facility built....and they will expect the County and State  to chip in a huge portion of the cost.

 

My bet is the upper decks are torn off and a smaller upper deck replaces it that wraps around the stadium in a horseshoe with the admin building being the “open end”. A huge scoreboard will be on top of that building.

Edited by Binghamton Beast
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1 hour ago, MJS said:

That's from 2010. Bills were middle of the road in revenue last year.

I just read we are 18th in the league revenue wise, that puts a bunch of teams below us. 

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3 hours ago, JustWinPlease said:

They need a new stadium and it needs to be put downtown.

 

I think there are going to demolish the Perry Street Projects and put a new stadium there.

It's right on the outskirts of the city, and close to Canal Side. Has perfect access to the 190 north or south, plus the skyway.

We'll see....

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Those projects have so much space, right near where the Buffalo News building sits.  Good points on the spacing. Hotels, restaurants, pubs and so on.  I would bet it would only be 65,000 seats like most stadiums these days.  There is less wind downtown, and less snow.  When I worked my college job at the News, I remember driving and right after the skyway, I can’t tell you how many times, I would over the Father Baker, and it would be a wall of snow.  The Pegulas could build a bunch of these hotels and restaurants, etc. as another revenue stream.

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2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Seattle would be a great stadium to copy

 

Actually the Vikings stadium is ideal. Fixed glass roof with walls that open.

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4 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...you hurt the feelings of the greedmeister Boy Danny Snyder by leaving him out.......on another note, he is an interesting perspective (?) someone posted in one of the numerous new stadium threads (apologize, but I'll have to paraphrase)......"a new stadium with higher ticket prices would attract the more affluent fan who currently stays at home to avoid the rowdy drunken fans that currently attend......that ilk would then be priced out"........hmmmm.......

 

 

DirtyBlinds.com is going to buy a suite?

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9 hours ago, purple haze said:

Agree.  But if I were a betting man, I'd bet on the downtown option being what is chosen by the Pegula's.

ECC South. 

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9 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....oh...my apology......isn't that EXACTLY what I said?.......seems like you conveniently skipped over economy of scale and what the WNY market can bear.........skipping those tiny details, sounds you of the volition, "if we build it, they will come".....got it......

If WNY can't afford it, then they can't afford an NFL franchise and the league will force them into an area that can. The league and other owners aren't charities who will continue to help the Bills stat afloat without contributing themselves. It doesn't matter if they have die hard fans, if they can't afford to pay market prices, they can't afford the NFL.

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16 hours ago, NoSaint said:


Wait... she has high standards, and... is with you? 
 

not to detour the thread but some things warrant discussion 

OMG, you have no idea how difficult she can be!! She’s here now and the temperature in my house is set at 62 degrees!! Just an example, i like to sleep in the cold but my God!!

16 hours ago, MJS said:

That's from 2010. Bills were middle of the road in revenue last year.

2019 on both

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What, exactly, is lacking at New Era that the League wants? Does anybody have the list?

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9 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

If WNY can't afford it, then they can't afford an NFL franchise and the league will force them into an area that can. The league and other owners aren't charities who will continue to help the Bills stat afloat without contributing themselves. It doesn't matter if they have die hard fans, if they can't afford to pay market prices, they can't afford the NFL.

 

 

...charitable in what sense?...equal sharing of TV revenues?........how else would they be distributed?.....and where would be your "cutoff line" for "non-contributors" that should be "forced into other areas?......bottom 10?...bottom 5?.........and what markets should the "bottom feeders" be relocated to that you would perceive to be acceptable financial contributors?.....

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9 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

If WNY can't afford it, then they can't afford an NFL franchise and the league will force them into an area that can. The league and other owners aren't charities who will continue to help the Bills stat afloat without contributing themselves. It doesn't matter if they have die hard fans, if they can't afford to pay market prices, they can't afford the NFL.

 

none of this is true

 

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29 minutes ago, gjv001 said:

What, exactly, is lacking at New Era that the League wants? Does anybody have the list?

 

 

 

...good question....where is Goodell's list of "New Era deficiencies"?......Arrowhead opened the year before New Era and has been just fine with renovations.....look at the stadium cost for Niners, Dallas, Rams/Chargers, etc along with cost of PSL's and tickets......or how about the Falcons with an Atlanta metro population of 6 million, dealing with $32 million in PSL defaults?.....Buffalo pales in comparison to the substantial corporate presence/support in those markets....

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37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

none of this is true

 

What's not true? The Bills don't get revenue sharing from the league because they are one of the lowest revenue franchise? That other NFL Owners like Jerry Jones enjoy being charitable sharing more of their revenue with lower revenue teams?

 

48 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...charitable in what sense?...equal sharing of TV revenues?........how else would they be distributed?.....and where would be your "cutoff line" for "non-contributors" that should be "forced into other areas?......bottom 10?...bottom 5?.........and what markets should the "bottom feeders" be relocated to that you would perceive to be acceptable financial contributors?.....

If a franchise isn't willing to what's asked to try and increase revenue. The league has determined that New Era doesn't meet their standards and needs to be upgraded to increase revenue.

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6 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

What's not true? The Bills don't get revenue sharing from the league because they are one of the lowest revenue franchise? That other NFL Owners like Jerry Jones enjoy being charitable sharing more of their revenue with lower revenue teams?

 

 

..is Jerry Jones the "Gold Standard"?....he like Snyder BOUGHT THEIR WAY into the "club" on the upswing......how about the founders and their element of risk?...how about Lamar Hunt and Ralph Wilson with their element of risk in 1960 with the AFL, a MAJOR component of today's NFL?......RW put up 25 grand (a tidy sum in those days) and loaned the Raiders $400 grand (an even tidier sum) to stay afloat.....and you think equal revenue sharing of TV revenue is charitable?.....how else would you allocate TV revenue if "equal sharing is charitable"?......the larger markets ripe with corporate sponsorship and huge metro populations are at a distinct advantage.......THIS JUST IN: Falcons, in the Atlanta metro market of SIX MILLION people, are dealing with $32+ mil in PSL defaults.......how come?.........

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I’m sorry, that was a tough read, you lost me. I got the jist though, and at the end of the day some major changes will be made, it’s inevitable. The NFL is a conglomerate on 32 owners. Those owners want changes in Buffalo. It’s just a matter of what and where.

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20 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The least valuable franchise in the league: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/amp/

30th in revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/

 

They charge significantly less than other markets. The stadium doesn’t generate the other revenue streams of others, etc..

 

I PROMISE, PROMISE, PROMISE, a new stadium or complete renovation ($500M+) will be happening. This is not something that “might” happen. 

The revenue issue is misunderstood IMO.

 

For Buffalo the revenue is less but expenses are also less as there is no debt service.  So Buffalo may be more profitable with less revenue. We will not know since they do not have to release their financials.

 

For the NFL it is about a smaller share for the visiting team and not being able to advertise the revenue levels.  This should be of no concern for the Bills.

 

This is simple: if the Bills believe the market can afford a new stadium, then downtown will be the location.  If they don't then an updated New Era will be the plan.

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10 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

If WNY can't afford it, then they can't afford an NFL franchise and the league will force them into an area that can. The league and other owners aren't charities who will continue to help the Bills stat afloat without contributing themselves. It doesn't matter if they have die hard fans, if they can't afford to pay market prices, they can't afford the NFL.

So you think the NFL will force the Bills to move?  A PR loser that will never happen.

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4 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

The revenue issue is misunderstood IMO.

 

For Buffalo the revenue is less but expenses are also less as there is no debt service.  So Buffalo may be more profitable with less revenue. We will not know since they do not have to release their financials.

 

For the NFL it is about a smaller share for the visiting team and not being able to advertise the revenue levels.  This should be of no concern for the Bills.

 

This is simple: if the Bills believe the market can afford a new stadium, then downtown will be the location.  If they don't then an updated New Era will be the plan.

 

....agreed......but with a new stadium, there would be debt service.....if we built a Lucas Oil type stadium for circa $800 mil, and NYS chipped in $400 mil (COUGH), Pegs comes up with the other $400 mil.....and he SHOULD have realistic ROI expectations...I would NOT do it gratuitously.....for all of his faults, the now disposed Brandon did a good job regionalizing the franchise...in its irony, the Toronto venture was to attract regional investors first in the anticipation of RW's eventual passing and Canadian fans were actually secondary or already a given.....our company is in Rochester and has had a corporate suite for 20+ years......20 person suite runs us $75 grand a year before game food/bev as well as limo transportation, parking, tailgate costs, etc....add in another $25 grand......add in PSL's/suite increase and we're out.......the domed Indy venue is multi-purpose which may make more sense to offset debt service solely funded by eight home games per year.......

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2 hours ago, gjv001 said:

What, exactly, is lacking at New Era that the League wants? Does anybody have the list?

 

One word: Revenue

 

From the league's perspective, they could play in a cardboard box if they could substantially raise ticket prices or generate more shared revenue streams...

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