The Draft Network Studs and Duds with Market Value some of the UFAs

[ngbills]

17 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The cap was 188.2 million this year.   It hasn't been explicitly communicated, but the NFL said on 12/11/2019, that they expected it to be between 196.8 and 201.2 Million, not 220 like you say here.   That said the Bills have close to 25 million is rollover cap, so in essence you 220+ is correct.    They have plenty of cap space, I never said they didnt.  What I said is, after they extend the players already on the roster, and sign their own free agents, and keep a 10 million plus pool like Beane likes to do, they arent going to have the cap to spend on guys like Ngaekou, and Cooper.  You guys can argue it all you want.    And they can front load the contracts all they want, but eventually you have to pay the piper.   

If that is the reality then frankly it would suck. This team is not nearly good enough to think they are the point of just extending and signing our own. I am sure they can find a way to spend the entire $225M on the current roster but that would be horrible mismanagement. They have very few large contracts to hand out this off-season to keep our own free agents or for extensions. Most key players are locked up at least a couple more years. If this year with $90M in cap and the flexibility they is not the year to improve the roster then there never will be one. 

[formerlyofCtown]

On 1/27/2020 at 3:33 PM, ngbills said:

Why do so many people say we will not sign anyone but 2-3rd tier free agents? What is the point of all this cap space if we use it on just our own plus some lower level free agents. This roster has a ton of good 2-3rd level guys. If we have $90M in cap and our QB is on his rookie contract we better sign a couple top level guys. That is what this team needs to get over the hump. 

So that we have the money to pay our own when the time comes.

[formerlyofCtown]

8 hours ago, ngbills said:

If that is the reality then frankly it would suck. This team is not nearly good enough to think they are the point of just extending and signing our own. I am sure they can find a way to spend the entire $225M on the current roster but that would be horrible mismanagement. They have very few large contracts to hand out this off-season to keep our own free agents or for extensions. Most key players are locked up at least a couple more years. If this year with $90M in cap and the flexibility they is not the year to improve the roster then there never will be one. 

There is this thing called the draft that Beane and company choose to build a team from.  Have you heard of it?  Plus players tend to get better after they are drafted.  Teams tend to get better the longer their good players have continuity.  I think some forget how much the offense got overhauled this past offseason.

 

If they did nothing other than resigning their own they would be better next season.

Edited January 31, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[Alphadawg7]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:15 AM, ngbills said:

I will take those two signings along with Hooper :). Then this draft I just did on their site

 

 

22 Laviska Shenault Jr., WR Colorado

54 Joshua Uche, EDGE Michigan

86 Tyler Biadasz, IOL Wisconsin

118 Raequan Williams, IDL Michigan State

137 Chase Lucas , CB Arizona State

149 Michael Onwenu, IOL Michigan

168 Lamical Perine, RB Florida

181 Scott Frantz , OT Kansas State

187 Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB Appalachian State

 

Hooper doesn't seem like he is likely to come here given he already said he doesnt like Buffalo.

[JerseyBills]

I think we're close enough where Beane pursues  an AJ Green . 

I'd rather keep Lawson , idk if 17 mil is worth it for a rotational position on this D and Yanick isn't that dominant imo. I also feel they really like Johnson , kid showed potential last year. Murphy also had a great second half of the season . Hughes is still elite. 

[njbuff]

53 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I think we're close enough where Beane pursues  an AJ Green . 

I'd rather keep Lawson , idk if 17 mil is worth it for a rotational position on this D and Yanick isn't that dominant imo. I also feel they really like Johnson , kid showed potential last year. Murphy also had a great second half of the season . Hughes is still elite. 

If the Bills are going to throw elite money out there to make a top defense the best in the NFL......

 

two words.......

 

Chris Jones.

[Thurman#1]

On 1/28/2020 at 5:21 AM, Aussie Joe said:

 

Im not necessarily saying they should, but they could sign Hooper  (whom I would prefer to Henry)  if they wanted.. 

 

He would probably be around $10Mil per year and would be an upgrade on Kroft who would be let go .( saving $5M per year)..

 

I agree though that Ngakoue seems a bit of a pipe dream...

 

 

Cutting Kroft would only save us $3.9 mill, not $5 mill, but yeah, that could be doable, I think.

[CSBill]

On 1/27/2020 at 1:19 PM, MAJBobby said:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/studs-and-duds-market-value-buys-in-2020-nfl-free-agency

 

Notables - I would do BOTH these at these assigned values

 

A.J. GREEN, WR

Projected average per year salary: $9.1 million

 

YANNICK NGAKOUE, DE
Projected average per year salary: $17.1 million

 

 

agree

[Thurman#1]

On 1/30/2020 at 6:31 AM, ngbills said:

Agreed. But no matter how you look at it if you have $90M in cap space you better have room to sign some guys with significant contracts. 

 

Look at the key guys all locked in for the next 2 and some even 3+ years:

 

OFF: Allen, Singletary, Brown, Beasley, Knox, Morse, Ford 

DEF: Star, Oliver, Hughes, H Phillips, Edmunds, Hyde, White, T Johnson, S Neal

 

We have the ability to spend a ton of money and still be fine in a few years when decisions need to be made on guys. Perfect time to sign some higher priced players and draft future replacements. No more needing to sign mid tier depth guys. We have a ton of that already. 

 

 

Significant contracts? Hey, absolutely. Expect three or four guys in the $7 to $10 mill range, and that's very significant.

 

 

 

White is signed up for the next two years? There's no particular reason to think so.

 

It's very clear that you don't value re-signing guys, but the thing is, the FO does. Very strongly, and intelligently so. If you sign White earlier, you save money on the contract he'll take, and doing so in a year when you have a ton of space makes a ton of sense. It means that next year and the year after when Edmunds, Allen,  other guys you want to re-sign come up for contracts you don't have to worry about signing White at the same time.

 

Milano, White, Dawkins, Poyer, not to mention guys like Spain, Kurt Coleman, Kevin Johnson, Levi Wallace, Shaq Lawson, and a few other cheaper ones, could all make a ton of sense to be re-signed or extended.

 

Waiting to extend or re-sign your core players till they all come due the same year just means you have to let some go. More, doing it in a year when you have less money because you weren't smart and you went out and won the offseason the year before is even more of a recipe for trouble, for a clogged cap down the road and having to let guys go that they don't want to.

 

 

16 hours ago, ngbills said:

If this year with $90M in cap and the flexibility they is not the year to improve the roster then there never will be one. 

 

 

This is without the slightest question a year to improve the roster. But your idea that bringing in high-ticket guys is the only way to do that isn't factual.

 

You almost seem like more of a fan of the "spend it while ya got it" approach than of the Bills. If so, it would make sense for you to pick another team to root for, at least up till April or so when the big FA money is more or less all spent. Lil' Danny Snyder's Washington team, perhaps.

 

This FO is financially conservative. That's what they learned in Carolina, it's what they've said every single time they've been asked, and it's how they've acted. There really isn't much question about it at this point. They might get one big FA. You could reasonably expect one every five years or so, as even conservative teams sometimes bring in one of the high-priced guys in about that often. Who knows, maybe this will be the year.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Thurman#1

[njbuff]

I think the Bills are worried about Yannick’s size.

 

He and Hughes are 6’2” and in the 250 pound range.

 

If the Bills pay Yannick 17+ million a year, you know he is starting (of course) and with him, Hughes, Oliver and Star........ they are going to get trampled in the running game.

 

Yannick is a NO, unless they plan on drafting a big body like Kinlaw.

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

If you sign White earlier, you save money on the contract he'll take, and doing so in a year when you have a ton of space makes a ton of sense. It means that next year and the year after when Edmunds, Allen,  other guys you want to re-sign come up for contracts you don't have to worry about signing White at the same time.

 

In a normal year I am sure they would try and sign White up this offseason. Sadly, this is not a normal year. It is the last year of the CBA and there are very specific rules that apply to new contracts as a result. The standard approach to non-QB contracts signed after a player's 3rd year is to keep year 4 (ie. what would normally be the last cheap year of the rookie deal) cost controlled. Teams do that because the alternative is you are giving up a year of having a good to elite player on a cap friendly contract. A lot of deals re-done after the 3rd year of a rookie contract actually reduce the amount that player costs on the cap in the first year of the new deal from what it would have been on the 4th year of the old deal (especially for 1st rounders). Zeke Elliot's deal after his 3rd year is an example of that. Eric Kendricks is, so far as I can find, the highest 2015 draft pick who re-signed after 3 years. While he was a 2nd rounder (and so the dynamics are slightly different because you don't have the 5th year option) he was extended after year 3 and his salary for year 4 was unchanged on his new deal from his old deal - $1.1m - he did cost a couple of million $ extra on the cap because of his salary bonus but that first year kept him at an overall cost controlled, team friendly $3.7m.  That is how teams do it because if you go straight to big cash in that 4th year you are never getting that cost controlled year back. You are giving up money.

 

The problem is the expiring CBA says that in the final year of the agreement (ie. 2020) any new contract signed cannot pay a player an uplift in 2021 over their 2020 cap hit of more than 30%. So Tre's current cap hit in 2020 is $3.2m. If the Bills extend him this year and want to cost control that year, let's say for argument sake they are willing to double that cap hit (which would be away above the normal bump for player in that scenario) and pay him $6.4m in 2020 then the max they could have him at in terms of cap in 2021 without breaching the CBA would be $8.3m. That means you are pushing a huge amount of money into future years.

 

I think a White extension this year is made really difficult by the CBA issue. My view as to what the Bills should do is take up the option and extend him as soon as the CBA issue is resolved. If that happens this year (even after they have spent money in FA) then great. But if it has to wait until after year 4 then so be it.

[Big Turk]

Not really interested in signing a 31 year old WR with a history of foot injuries that has limited him to 1 game since October 2018. The likelihood of him playing more than 4 games is pretty low and that is a lot of money to commit to a high risk FA that could be used elsewhere.

 

Let someone else pay him to sit on IR most of the year.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by matter2003

[ngbills]

14 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

So that we have the money to pay our own when the time comes.

 

We have $90M this year. Cap is likely increasing next year and year after etc. Older guys will be rolling off contracts and you can cut guys in the NFL. We do not have an issue with being able to keep our guys. 

 

14 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

There is this thing called the draft that Beane and company choose to build a team from.  Have you heard of it?  Plus players tend to get better after they are drafted.  Teams tend to get better the longer their good players have continuity.  I think some forget how much the offense got overhauled this past offseason.

 

If they did nothing other than resigning their own they would be better next season.

 

There is also a thing called free agency. Both teams in the Super Bowl used it to supplement good draft  picks. 

 

Players get better - yes. But this team does not have those players yet. Our WR room is too weak to rely on getting better. Our OL is not built around young guys that will be getting better. We dont have an edge rusher that will get better. 

 

So yes - build through the draft and watch those key players get better. Use free agency to fill the holes or hold the fort down until the player does get better. 

 

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Significant contracts? Hey, absolutely. Expect three or four guys in the $7 to $10 mill range, and that's very significant.

 

 

 

White is signed up for the next two years? There's no particular reason to think so.

 

It's very clear that you don't value re-signing guys, but the thing is, the FO does. Very strongly, and intelligently so. If you sign White earlier, you save money on the contract he'll take, and doing so in a year when you have a ton of space makes a ton of sense. It means that next year and the year after when Edmunds, Allen,  other guys you want to re-sign come up for contracts you don't have to worry about signing White at the same time.

 

Milano, White, Dawkins, Poyer, not to mention guys like Spain, Kurt Coleman, Kevin Johnson, Levi Wallace, Shaq Lawson, and a few other cheaper ones, could all make a ton of sense to be re-signed or extended.

 

Waiting to extend or re-sign your core players till they all come due the same year just means you have to let some go. More, doing it in a year when you have less money because you weren't smart and you went out and won the offseason the year before is even more of a recipe for trouble, for a clogged cap down the road and having to let guys go that they don't want to.

 

 

 

 

This is without the slightest question a year to improve the roster. But your idea that bringing in high-ticket guys is the only way to do that isn't factual.

 

You almost seem like more of a fan of the "spend it while ya got it" approach than of the Bills. If so, it would make sense for you to pick another team to root for, at least up till April or so when the big FA money is more or less all spent. Lil' Danny Snyder's Washington team, perhaps.

 

This FO is financially conservative. That's what they learned in Carolina, it's what they've said every single time they've been asked, and it's how they've acted. There really isn't much question about it at this point. They might get one big FA. You could reasonably expect one every five years or so, as even conservative teams sometimes bring in one of the high-priced guys in about that often. Who knows, maybe this will be the year.

 

 

 

Three to four guys at $7-10M is what we did last year basically. We would be much better off sign 2 guys at $15-20M. 

 

White is not a free agent until 2022. You can extend him next offseason if you want or even wait until the next.

 

How do you know this FO values resigning guys? What examples do you have? So far they have signed more free agents than they have resigned guys.Every team in the NFL has guys they have to resign down the road. That does not stop you from improving the roster now via free agency. People are making this out like the Bills are the only team that has its own players to resign someday. 

 

Milano is debatable if he is worth a big contract. He is a good player but not sure the type of guy you pay $10-15M per. I could see McD feeling the same way. 

White is has a few more years. He is an elite CB and would be worth signing.

Dawkins is going to be a judgement call. I think he is more critical than Milano given finding a replacement would be tougher. But this FO will have to decide if they want to pay him the big $. Not a sure thing.

Poyer I do not think they invest money in that position. If he comes back on similar terms they bring him back but no way shell out a hefty raise to him. 

Spain, Kurt Coleman, Kevin Johnson, Levi Wallace - These guys should not have significant impacts on your roster building.

Shaq - Who knows what they do. I think if he takes a discount they may bring him back.

 

I would not call this FO fiscally conservative. They are paying a C over $10M. They signed Star to $10M. Brown, Beasley, Murphy, Kroft all got big raisers coming here. So not sure where the these guys are not willing to spend comes from. 

 

In the NFL you are supposed to spend it all. If you dont you are only limiting your team. That is why there is a salary cap. That does not mean you are not smart about it. If there is a free agent that would help your team and is an upgrade over one of your own - then you do bring them in and maybe that mean you do lose a player. But if the team is overall better who cares. 

 

Thanks for advice on rooting for another team. I was born a Bills fan and have been for 40 years. My dogs name like your screen name is Thurman. So you are confused about who you are talking to son. Sounds like you root for mediocre players that you have crushes on over building a super bowl contender. 

[JerseyBills]

17 hours ago, njbuff said:

If the Bills are going to throw elite money out there to make a top defense the best in the NFL......

 

two words.......

 

Chris Jones.

I'd be on board with that , I think Oliver is going to be a stud , also feel Harry is very underrated on here/Jordan overrated.

Grab Jones , cut Star next year.  Jones is a beast 

 

 

[GreggTX]

On 1/27/2020 at 3:15 AM, ngbills said:

I will take those two signings along with Hooper :). Then this draft I just did on their site

 

 

22 Laviska Shenault Jr., WR Colorado

54 Joshua Uche, EDGE Michigan

86 Tyler Biadasz, IOL Wisconsin

118 Raequan Williams, IDL Michigan State

137 Chase Lucas , CB Arizona State

149 Michael Onwenu, IOL Michigan

168 Lamical Perine, RB Florida

181 Scott Frantz , OT Kansas State

187 Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB Appalachian State

I like it, but if Espensa is there at 22, I'd take him and target Pittman in round 2 or get a solid OT at 22. Also, what about replacing Lorenzo? Shouldn't we target a LB in FA or take one higher than the 7th?

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

I'd be on board with that , I think Oliver is going to be a stud , also feel Harry is very underrated on here/Jordan overrated.

Grab Jones , cut Star next year.  Jones is a beast 

 

 

We'd have to eat almost $8 million in dead money if we release Lotulelei. I'd let J Phillips walk first.

Edited January 31, 2020 by GreggTX

[Dkollidas]

On 1/30/2020 at 12:52 PM, thenorthremembers said:

The cap was 188.2 million this year.   It hasn't been explicitly communicated, but the NFL said on 12/11/2019, that they expected it to be between 196.8 and 201.2 Million, not 220 like you say here.   That said the Bills have close to 25 million is rollover cap, so in essence you 220+ is correct.    They have plenty of cap space, I never said they didnt.  What I said is, after they extend the players already on the roster, and sign their own free agents, and keep a 10 million plus pool like Beane likes to do, they arent going to have the cap to spend on guys like Ngaekou, and Cooper.  You guys can argue it all you want.    And they can front load the contracts all they want, but eventually you have to pay the piper.   

I agree with most of your sentiment. I think they’ll have to make some hard decisions. 
 

But hypothetically they have roughly $90M in cap space. Now I’m no capologist, but roughly let’s say they do something like this.

 

(All Prices are Annual Average Salary)

Unrestricted FA's: 

Frank Gore- Retires*

Lorenzo Alexander- Retires*

Jordan Phillips - LEAVES

Kurt Coleman - LEAVES

Quinton Spain -3yrs-$6M 

Kevin Johnson - 1yr-$3M

Shaq Lawson - 3yrs $8M

Corey Liuget - 1yr $1M

Dean Marlowe - 1yr-$1M

Isiah McKenzie - 1yr-$2M

 

ERFA’s

Levi Wallace - Re-Sign - $500K

Robert Foster - Re-Sign - $500K

 

Total Spent on Re-Signings = $22M

 

Starting Players heading into last year of deal:
(extensions are my belief on how much extra above their 2020 cap hit it will take to re-sign the player, example, Tre’s 2020 cap hit is $3.2M. If Buffalo gives him his 5th year options, his price in 2021 will be about $10M, so an additional $7M more than his 2020 cap hit).

Trent Murphy - Cut (Save $7.2M)

Ty Yeldon - Cut (Save $1.9M)

Ty Nsekhe - Let play out

Jon Feliciano - Let Play Out

Jordan Poyer - Extend: +$7M 

Tre White - 5th yr option: +$7M

Andre Roberts - Let Play Out

Patrick DiMarco - Let Play Out

Matt Barkley - Let Play Out

Dion Dawkins - Extend: +$12M

Matt Milano - Extend: +$9M

Corey Bojorquez - Let Play Out

 

Total Spent on Extensions for 2021=

$35M total

 

 

Total Cap Space:

$89M

-$22M (Re-Signing our own)

$67M

+$9M (Savings from cutting Murphy & Yeldon)

$76M  

-$35M (to give cushion for 2021 ext’s)

$41M

-$4M Draft Picks

$37M Available for Free Agency

 

Now of that $37M, $25M or so is rollover. So that takes you down to about $12M to really spend on long term deals. But don’t forget that next season that they will likely be able to move on from Hughes and Star, saving an additional $19M or so. And the cap will go up another $10M or so. So that would add another $30M or so to our coffers next year. 
 

So we have room, but will need to save space in order to re-sign our own. Beane needs to figure out 1) who is our core. 2) who deserves long-term versus short term deals, frontloaded versus backloaded and guaranteed versus non guaranteed deals. 
 

They have the cap space this year, and the flexibility in the coming years to make a deal for one of the big ticket free agents. My belief is that it would come at the expense of one of our current guys, and I pretty firmly believe that will be Poyer. Just my own belief, but I think he’s out after this year. 

[formerlyofCtown]

11 hours ago, ngbills said:

 

We have $90M this year. Cap is likely increasing next year and year after etc. Older guys will be rolling off contracts and you can cut guys in the NFL. We do not have an issue with being able to keep our guys. 

 

 

There is also a thing called free agency. Both teams in the Super Bowl used it to supplement good draft  picks. 

 

Players get better - yes. But this team does not have those players yet. Our WR room is too weak to rely on getting better. Our OL is not built around young guys that will be getting better. We dont have an edge rusher that will get better. 

 

So yes - build through the draft and watch those key players get better. Use free agency to fill the holes or hold the fort down until the player does get better. 

 

Three to four guys at $7-10M is what we did last year basically. We would be much better off sign 2 guys at $15-20M. 

 

White is not a free agent until 2022. You can extend him next offseason if you want or even wait until the next.

 

How do you know this FO values resigning guys? What examples do you have? So far they have signed more free agents than they have resigned guys.Every team in the NFL has guys they have to resign down the road. That does not stop you from improving the roster now via free agency. People are making this out like the Bills are the only team that has its own players to resign someday. 

 

Milano is debatable if he is worth a big contract. He is a good player but not sure the type of guy you pay $10-15M per. I could see McD feeling the same way. 

White is has a few more years. He is an elite CB and would be worth signing.

Dawkins is going to be a judgement call. I think he is more critical than Milano given finding a replacement would be tougher. But this FO will have to decide if they want to pay him the big $. Not a sure thing.

Poyer I do not think they invest money in that position. If he comes back on similar terms they bring him back but no way shell out a hefty raise to him. 

Spain, Kurt Coleman, Kevin Johnson, Levi Wallace - These guys should not have significant impacts on your roster building.

Shaq - Who knows what they do. I think if he takes a discount they may bring him back.

 

I would not call this FO fiscally conservative. They are paying a C over $10M. They signed Star to $10M. Brown, Beasley, Murphy, Kroft all got big raisers coming here. So not sure where the these guys are not willing to spend comes from. 

 

In the NFL you are supposed to spend it all. If you dont you are only limiting your team. That is why there is a salary cap. That does not mean you are not smart about it. If there is a free agent that would help your team and is an upgrade over one of your own - then you do bring them in and maybe that mean you do lose a player. But if the team is overall better who cares. 

 

Thanks for advice on rooting for another team. I was born a Bills fan and have been for 40 years. My dogs name like your screen name is Thurman. So you are confused about who you are talking to son. Sounds like you root for mediocre players that you have crushes on over building a super bowl contender. 

Really?  If we didn’t get cheated by poor officiating I believe we had a chance at the SB.

Oliver, Knox, Singletary, Ford and Sweeny will likely all be significantly improved.  Josh Allen will also improve.  Massive contracts is what the old regime did.  How did handing out all that money work out for Chicago and Cleveland.  How many big splashy FAs did NE win all those SBs with.  If you find a legit Star available then so be it.  But there are only 2 FAs that I would pony up big$ for.  One is a RB and the other a G.

[JerseyBills]

16 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I like it, but if Espensa is there at 22, I'd take him and target Pittman in round 2 or get a solid OT at 22. Also, what about replacing Lorenzo? Shouldn't we target a LB in FA or take one higher than the 7th?

We'd have to eat almost $8 million in dead money if we release Lotulelei. I'd let J Phillips walk first.

I meant cutting ? in 2021. I figured this upcoming year would be too much 

[MAJBobby]

On 1/30/2020 at 12:52 PM, thenorthremembers said:

The cap was 188.2 million this year.   It hasn't been explicitly communicated, but the NFL said on 12/11/2019, that they expected it to be between 196.8 and 201.2 Million, not 220 like you say here.   That said the Bills have close to 25 million is rollover cap, so in essence you 220+ is correct.    They have plenty of cap space, I never said they didnt.  What I said is, after they extend the players already on the roster, and sign their own free agents, and keep a 10 million plus pool like Beane likes to do, they arent going to have the cap to spend on guys like Ngaekou, and Cooper.  You guys can argue it all you want.    And they can front load the contracts all they want, but eventually you have to pay the piper.   

and same could be said for EVERY NFL TEAM. EVERY year. Yet look what happens players get signed. 

[MAJBobby]

All the re-sign our own people. 
 

who of “our own” have actually earned that new contract?

 

that are not cost controlled for say 2 years?

[Lurker]

On 1/31/2020 at 6:41 PM, Dkollidas said:

They have the cap space this year, and the flexibility in the coming years to make a deal for one of the big ticket free agents. 

 

That's the way I see it as well.  I think they'll target one marquee UFA and (at most) 1-2 "fill in" types--and then use the rest of the cap space on the curret roster.

 

It could be a tough approach if they don't land their guy right out of the gate.   If they have to wait around for a decision, they might get stuck losing out on "player 1B" if their initial target eventually turns them down.    That might mean overpaying, but then again, that's what Buffalo has to do anyway to overcome the Siberia issue...

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

All the re-sign our own people. 
 

who of “our own” have actually earned that new contract?

 

that are not cost controlled for say 2 years?

This narrative that we need to dole out extensions for all these guys is nonsense. 

 

Mediocre players that the team likes can stay on modest deals, but to get a significant extension you better be REALLY good/great.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

This narrative that we need to dole out extensions for all these guys is nonsense. 

 

Mediocre players that the team likes can stay on modest deals, but to get a significant extension you better be REALLY good/great.

 

 

It should be. 
 

Example McD’s Cover 4 is very safety friendly. As much as I do like Poyer I am not giving him an extension with an AVV of over 10M. 
 

sorry ISNT going to happen. And shouldn’t happen. He is a SAFETY. You have one you drafted and kept on the 53 for a REASON. 
 

if he will sign a contract in the 6-7M AVV range fine. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by MAJBobby

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

It should be. 
 

Example McD’s Cover 4 is very safety friendly. As much as I do like Poyer I am not giving him an extension with an AVV of over 10M. 
 

sorry ISNT going to happen. And shouldn’t happen. He is a SAFETY. You have one you drafted and kept on the 53 for a REASON. 

Absolutely.

 

I've been of the opinion that we should not extend Poyer...at least not at what he is allegedly looking for. 

 

I think McDermott and Frazier know how to utilize what they have and their scheme plays a major part in the unit's success.

 

Where they should spend the money is where I don't think they can get by on their scheme and that's the offense. They must continue to get better up front, get another back that can be effective, and get a number one receiver.

 

Draft replacements on defense and take care of the studs like Tre and Edmunds. A pass rusher would be nice, but that's all I'm really gonna do on that side in terms of big money.

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Absolutely.

 

I've been of the opinion that we should not extend Poyer...at least not at what he is allegedly looking for. 

 

I think McDermott and Frazier know how to utilize what they have and their scheme plays a major part in the unit's success.

 

Where they should spend the money is where I don't think they can get by on their scheme and that's the offense. They must continue to get better up front, get another back that can be effective, and get a number one receiver.

 

Draft replacements on defense and take care of the studs like Tre and Edmunds. A pass rusher would be nice, but that's all I'm really gonna do on that side in terms of big money.

also people take words of Beane as gospel though actions show quite different. 
 

1. Words :”you don’t need a true No 1 WR”. Actions - Beane in on talks for OBJ, had a trade in place for AB before AB scuttled. 
 

2. Words: “Draft, Develop pay players”. Actions - Sign Morse as highest paid center in NFL. 
 

I do think we have young players trending toward a lucrative extension in 2-4 years. But that isn’t going to stop Buffalo from spending on a guy in UFA they can see as part of that solution to win. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

also people take words of Beane as gospel though actions show quite different. 
 

1. Words :”you don’t need a true No 1 WR”. Actions - Beane in on talks for OBJ, had a trade in place for AB before AB scuttled. 
 

2. Words: “Draft, Develop pay players”. Actions - Sign Morse as highest paid center in NFL. 
 

I do think we have young players trending toward a lucrative extension in 2-4 years. But that isn’t going to stop Buffalo from spending on a guy in UFA they can see as part of that solution to win. 

 

...that's a pretty all inclusive statement....SOME people do.....McBeane has become adept at NOT showing his cards or tipping his hand IMO....."LeSean McCoy is definitely in our plans for 2019"...oh wait.........

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...that's a pretty all inclusive statement....SOME people do.....McBeane has become adept at NOT showing his cards or tipping his hand IMO....."LeSean McCoy is definitely in our plans for 2019"...oh wait.........

Sorry meant the ones that are adamantly saying that is not what Beane will do because he said he won’t spend in UFA or Beane said we do not need a No1 WR. 
 

and after Watching football all these years people still take what comes out public from Organization as gospel. It is Lying season people. 
 

I think the ONLY thing we can say for sure about Beane and McD they will upgrade anywhere, will not be afraid to Move on from a player, like “football players”, manipulate draft position, and want a “Vet” in each room. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by MAJBobby

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Sorry meant the ones that are adamantly saying that is not what Beane will do because he said he won’t spend in UFA or Beane said we do not need a No1 WR 

 

 

...we're good......I for one think he'll spend in FA, but don't see him throwing "crazy money" around (he cleaned up THAT mess)........if I remember a quote correctly, he said" we assign a value to a player and that's it"..........go back to McCarron....Bungles wanted a 2nd.......McCarron hits FA market and McBeane waits until feeding frenzy is over....there's McCarron still unsigned and THEN he picked him up at his price.....we'll never know if he would have worked out because of Peterman-mania (COUGH).......another McBeane quote (paraphrased), "the signing of Duke Williams made drafting a WR early not a top priority"...either he overestimated Duke or Duke didn't fit with Daboll......I'm guessing the whole scenario has him reevaluating his 2020 Draft Board, not so much for a true #1 but rather drafting one if not more (or UDFA value)....also see him spending dollars to keep some current guys "in the fold"....

Edited February 2, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...we're good......I for one think he'll spend in FA, but don't see him throwing "crazy money" around (he cleaned up THAT mess)........if I remember a quote correctly, he said" we assign a value to a player and that's it"..........go back to McCarron....Bungles wanted a 2nd.......McCarron hits FA market and McBeane waits until feeding frenzy is over....there's McCarron still unsigned and THEN he picked him up at his price.....we'll never know if he would have worked out because of Peterman-mania (COUGH).......another McBeane quote (paraphrased), "the signing of Duke Williams made drafting a WR early not a top priority"...either he overestimated Duke or Duke didn't fit with Daboll......I'm guessing the whole scenario has him reevaluating his 2020 Draft Board, not so much for a true #1 but rather drafting one if not more (or UDFA value).....

true. But I also don’t think it was just duke that was just the name he used maybe trying to promote Duke’s skills. Or they were going into the 2019 draft looking for that Big WR and with Duke signed made that Big Body WR lower priority. 
 

the reality is signing Brown, Beasley, Duke, what looked like a turned corner with Foster is likely what made WR a lower priority. 
 

I agree that they have their set financial value for each position (As they should) that they will not blow in UFA maybe that is 15M AAV for a DE. But that same set financial value will also be in place for our own as well. It isn’t going (well shouldn’t) go up because well we drafted the guy so willing to pay more. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

true. But I also don’t think it was just duke that was just the name he used maybe trying to promote Duke’s skills. Or they were going into the 2019 draft looking for that Big WR and with Duke signed made that Big Body WR lower priority. 
 

the reality is signing Brown, Beasley, Duke, what looked like a turned corner with Foster is likely what made WR a lower priority. 
 

I agree that they have their set financial value for each position (As they should) that they will not blow in UFA maybe that is 15M AAV for a DE. But that same set financial value will also be in place for our own as well. It isn’t going (well shouldn’t) go up because well we drafted the guy so willing to pay more. 

 

 

certainly agree bud.....think that the WR corp needs to be a focal point, BUT with the TBD Collegiate Ball pundits (I don't get to see college ball so I'd NEVER venture into names/probable picks) saying this is the "deepest class in years (Jeremiah said "perhaps the fastest class in history"), I could see McBeane trading down in the 1st to grab an extra 2nd, and look for WR value versus using #22 for a WR......probably wrong though....

Edited February 2, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

certainly agree bud.....think that the WR corp needs to be a focal point, BUT with the TBD Collegiate Ball pundits (I don't get to see college ball so I'd NEVER venture into names/probable picks) saying this is the "deepest class in years (Jeremiah said "perhaps the fastest class in history"), I could see McBeane trading down in the 1st to grab an extra 2nd, and look for WR value versus using #22 for a WR......probably wrong though....

it is really deep. However after about mid second that depth really will be thinned out. Then you start seeing I skill set WRs that are very raw in other areas. 
 

if they could move from 22 to say 28 and get a second in return they absolutely should do it. The value for WR is still there at 28 and will get a good one. 
 

my worry is all these people saying it is a deep class wait until round 2 are going to see round 2 come and the depth at WR thinned dramatically. 
 

and that will happen because the positional depth at other groups is lacking in this draft. So the VALUE is going to be WR 

Edited February 2, 2020 by MAJBobby

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

it is really deep. However after about mid second that depth really will be thinned out. Then you start seeing I skill set WRs that are very raw in other areas. 
 

if they could move from 22 to say 28 and get a second in return they absolutely should do it. The value for WR is still there at 28 and will get a good one. 
 

my worry is all these people saying it is a deep class wait until round 2 are going to see round 2 come and the depth at WR thinned dramatically. 

 

 

...thanks....sounds like a prime position and strategy.......when you think about McBeane's staff consisting of 17+, many of whom are former NFL VP's of Player Personnel or Directors of Pro Player Personnel, I suspect (OR HOPE) they've done their homework relative to talent drop off...........