The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Deranged Rhino]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I'm not sure what it means... coordinated in our transportation? Plane travel? Federal highways? Trains? More than that?

He's never pressured a Governor to close, so not sure if he will pressure to reopen (or not reopen).


 

 

Just my take -- he's baiting the press. 

 

A Tweet isn't an official order. He's giving his enemies a chance to run wild with stories for a few days -- then will do it completely differently. It's a move he's perfected to expose the bias/true agendas of certain outlets/reporters/political rivals.

22 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

That's not what he said. He was pretty clear. He believes it is not up to governors to open up the states. It is up to him.

 

 

Trump isn't an A to B communicator. He's an A to Z to D back to A then to D. 

 

(jmo)

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Just my take -- he's baiting the press. 

 

A Tweet isn't an official order. He's giving his enemies a chance to run wild with stories for a few days -- then will do it completely differently. It's a move he's perfected to expose the bias/true agendas of certain outlets/reporters/political rivals.

You are probably correct.

The press conference today should be er, interesting...  Trump is again a dictator after not doing enough to close down the states (the press' pretzel logic is something to behold).

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Just my take -- he's baiting the press. 

 

A Tweet isn't an official order. He's giving his enemies a chance to run wild with stories for a few days -- then will do it completely differently. It's a move he's perfected to expose the bias/true agendas of certain outlets/reporters/political rivals.

 

Trump isn't an A to B communicator. He's an A to Z to D back to A then to D. 

 

(jmo)

 

Right that makes sense DR.  As well as President Trump part. Makes lots of sense.

 

Good posting here today from everyone. Witch is why liking. Good taking info but Ryan Fitzpatrick giving to others like info. The amazing and the horrible lol.  Hope people don't mind usly keep on the quite side. 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

Trump isn't an A to B communicator. He's an A to Z to D back to A then to D. 

 

(jmo)

Drives my husband insane. I follow it easily, mostly because I am like that too.  Yes, I can frustrate hubby when I am making a point. 

Nothing like a tangent to tell a good story and make certain the people in the audience are listening closely, is my motto! ?

 

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Good posting here today from everyone. 

 

It's early. The personal insults and bullying are just around the corner!

 

But really, this thread is a "10" when it stays on topic. Doc's discussion about oxygen, Trump's tweets on his right to control the states, recovery talk. 

 

I want to start the climb out so I look forward to hearing those plans.

 

And I agree with how Trump communicates. I believe that if the administration talks like Trump talked, but puts out "suggested" plans, it will give governors political cover to "follow" what the federal government says to do. Governors can say, "Look at what they are saying...I had no choice." Seems cockamamie to me but as long as it is centrally planned and coordinated, I'm for it. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by shoshin

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I briefly touched on this a few days ago with Foxx.  Most of this is conspiratorial bull####. 

 

5G is simply the next generation wireless technology, not too much different than moving from 1G - 2G - 3G and 4G over the last two decades.   Most 5G service will be on the same/similar frequencies that current cellphones have been operating on since the '80s.   The new concern however should be on the fixed wireless aspect of 5G which uses millimeter wave frequencies, which are a bit more dangerous to the human body.  But, the deployment of 5G to date has zero correlation to where Wuhan virus was out of control. 

 

Not really. There is a fundamental shift in how 5G works that makes it essential for future state surveillance. After all, china's taken the lead on this technology

 

[SoCal Deek]

34 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

That's not what he said. He was pretty clear. He believes it is not up to governors to open up the states. It is up to him.

 

Ugh 

It’s up to him FIRST! Then he governor will make their own decision.

[Gene Frenkle]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Not really. There is a fundamental shift in how 5G works that makes it essential for future state surveillance. After all, china's taken the lead on this technology

 

 

What's the shift exactly?

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Not really. There is a fundamental shift in how 5G works that makes it essential for future state surveillance. After all, china's taken the lead on this technology

 

 

There's a fundamental shift in all technology advancements.  That's why there are different numbers.   The ability to install a surveillance state is certainly easier with 5G than prior techs.  Has nothing to do with the inherent safety of the wavelengths.  

[shoshin]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Ugh 

It’s up to him FIRST! Then he governor will make their own decision.

He says it’s his decision not governor’s. He may change his mind about this Like he often does but he said it. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

What's the shift exactly?

There is stuff in the China thread and the deep state thread about 5G and China.  A search of this sub-forum will lead you to it as it has been discussed for several years now.

 

[Nanker]

25 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I briefly touched on this a few days ago with Foxx.  Most of this is conspiratorial bull####. 

 

5G is simply the next generation wireless technology, not too much different than moving from 1G - 2G - 3G and 4G over the last two decades.   Most 5G service will be on the same/similar frequencies that current cellphones have been operating on since the '80s.   The new concern however should be on the fixed wireless aspect of 5G which uses millimeter wave frequencies, which are a bit more dangerous to the human body.  But, the deployment of 5G to date has zero correlation to where Wuhan virus was out of control. 

I agree for the most part. But you were asking for a correlation of the outbreaks to an as of yet unknown variable. You should check the map. Wuhan was one of China’s first blanketed 5G cities - if not the first. There are heavy placements in Italy, NUC, NJ, Long Island and other hot spots.  Interesting coincidence perhaps. 
https://www.speedtest.net/ookla-5g-map
 

The anti-vaxers love this conspiracy. 

[shoshin]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

There is stuff in the China thread and the deep state thread about 5G and China.  A search of this sub-forum will lead you to it as it has been discussed for several years now.

 

 

But it has nothing to do with this virus, right? 

[dpberr]

Elaine Chao's presence on the newest task force suggests to me the government may be looking at reopening states, and regions inside those states by MPOs.  MPOs are organized by counties, and most states are tracking virus activity at the county level.  

 

Essentially the governors would lift restrictions in small groups of counties at a time, instead of piecemeal one here, one there.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

He says it’s his decision not governor’s. He may change his mind about this Like he often does but he said it. 

Both are correct! This is a national issue therefore crossing State lines. This is neither complicated of suspicious in any way. Sheeesh

[shoshin]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Both are correct! This is a national issue therefore crossing State lines. This is neither complicated of suspicious in any way. Sheeesh

 

I agree. The feds can control the state's decisions on shut downs. Many here have been saying the opposite.

[Deranged Rhino]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Drives my husband insane. I follow it easily, mostly because I am like that too.  Yes, I can frustrate hubby when I am making a point. 

Nothing like a tangent to tell a good story and make certain the people in the audience are listening closely, is my motto! ?

 

 

 

Yup. Those people that haven't taken the time to figure out his style of communicating are usually the ones who are the most upset by what he (didn't really) say. And, I don't blame those people because the sound-byte media distorts an already garbled message and runs it over and over, without context. What's interesting about his communication style to me personally is that it's a perfect example of how Trump's weaknesses (and this is a weakness) serves simultaneously as a strength. There's never been a politician like it before, for better and worse.

 

The stream-of-consciousness communication style is a weakness because his imprecision with language is so different from the polished (and overly sanitized) "off the cuff comments" of the rest of the political class that it's jarring to non-partisans/objective observers. It not only opens him up to easy (and avoidable) attacks by his rivals and enemies, it also has driven a lot of the moderate and independents away from the tent. Yet, all that also serves as a strength. Because despite the audacity of his words, you can't fake being real. Trump's difference in style is entirely genuine and his own, not filtered through think tanks, PR handlers, and his circle of advisers. That's a refreshing breath of fresh air to many people who are tired of the polished talking points from pols that are nothing more than empty words (that sound REALLY good).

 

That's why we've seen, over time, more and more centrists and independents coming back into the fold even though they all wish he'd be more precise with his language rather than a flamethrower. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Deranged Rhino

[Troll Toll]

36 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

That's not what he said. He was pretty clear. He believes it is not up to governors to open up the states. It is up to him.

 

I disagree. His tweets are responding to the media saying legally he can’t force them to open up. He is simply telling them that is incorrect. The governors shut things down and they can reopen them, he is not saying they can’t. Trump is saying that IF he has to force the state governor to act reasonably, then he does have the power to do so.

[GG]

1 minute ago, Nanker said:

I agree for the most part. But you were asking for a correlation of the outbreaks to an as of yet unknown variable. You should check the map. Wuhan was one of China’s first blanketed 5G cities - if not the first. There are heavy placements in Italy, NUC, NJ, Long Island and other hot spots.  Interesting coincidence perhaps. 
https://www.speedtest.net/ookla-5g-map
 

The anti-vaxers love this conspiracy. 

 

It's a coincidence only to people who are too lazy or stupid to look at coverage maps.  Verizon's 5G buildout has been lit in areas that have not been hit hard by Wuhan.   Same in Italy - the 3 markets where 5G is live have not been affected as badly as where there is no 5G.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, shoshin said:

 

I agree. The feds can control the state's decisions on shut downs. Many here have been saying the opposite.

Thanks 

People are dying to find problems in everything! It’s apparently the new sequestration sport. I actually think that all levels of our government have done a pretty good job with the entire thing. But...it’s WAY more pressure to open things up than it ever was to order business and people to close them. Yet, things definitely need to begin to reopen over the next few weeks...for sure!

[Nanker]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

It's a coincidence only to people who are too lazy or stupid to look at coverage maps.  Verizon's 5G buildout has been lit in areas that have not been hit hard by Wuhan.   Same in Italy - the 3 markets where 5G is live have not been affected as badly as where there is no 5G.

There are different technologies for implementing 5G though. Maybe some are more harmful to humans than others. 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[shoshin]

Just now, Nanker said:

There are different technologies for implementing 5G though. Maybe some are more harmful to humans than others. 

But it’s not related to Covid-19. 

[Gene Frenkle]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

There is stuff in the China thread and the deep state thread about 5G and China.  A search of this sub-forum will lead you to it as it has been discussed for several years now.

 

 

I just read an article.  It's saying the the increased bandwidth and lowered latency will make it so that we can have many more devices connected to the same network.  The download speeds (if accurate) will be incredible.  So we'll potentially be paying for convenience with our privacy, due to hackers, possible surveillance, etc...

 

The only difference in this from 4G is the speed and frequency of the signal I believe.  Trump apparently has a plan to nationalize the nations's 5G network, he says to make it more secure.

13 minutes ago, Nanker said:

I agree for the most part. But you were asking for a correlation of the outbreaks to an as of yet unknown variable. You should check the map. Wuhan was one of China’s first blanketed 5G cities - if not the first. There are heavy placements in Italy, NUC, NJ, Long Island and other hot spots.  Interesting coincidence perhaps. 
https://www.speedtest.net/ookla-5g-map
 

The anti-vaxers love this conspiracy. 

 

Which should be a clue that it's probably nuts.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

Keeping my hope that the worst is over. Ya DR um do you think places towards Buffalo and surroundings area worst over as well?

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Nanker said:

There are different technologies for implementing 5G though. Maybe some are more harmful to humans than others. 

 

Yes, that's why I differentiated mobile 5G which uses traditional cellular frequencies from fixed wireless 5G which uses much higher frequencies.  Neither tech is so widespread that could cause this 

[shoshin]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Keeping my hope that the worst is over. Ya DR um do you think places towards Buffalo and surroundings area worst over as well?

 

This is only the beginning of the end of the beginning unless we are lucky. This is just a little good news on the first wave of infections. 

[Nanker]

12 minutes ago, shoshin said:

But it’s not related to Covid-19. 

But how can we know for sure if they don’t do Clinical Trials on 5G and COVID-19?

 

Asking for a friend. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

27 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

What's the shift exactly?

 

5G is about EVERYTHING being connected to the network, not just phones which can easily be switched on and off. There's virtually no "opt-out" involved in 5G networks.

 

[GG]

13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

The 4-day average increase in cases fell below 5% in NYC for the first time today!

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The 4-day average increase in cases fell below 5% in NYC for the first time today!

 

Witch is good news. Positive trend. Still in the wait and see mode. But happy good news.

[Deranged Rhino]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Keeping my hope that the worst is over. Ya DR um do you think places towards Buffalo and surroundings area worst over as well?

 

 I don't want to prognosticate anything for (my home) region since I'm currently in LA (and clearly not a doctor), but I sure hope so! I would guess (GUESS) that they're a week behind NYC, but I hope that's wrong. 

[Foxx]

interesting article from one of Luxembourg's leading media outlets.

LEADING GERMAN VIROLOGIST“So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proved.”

RTL Today joined a press conference of virologist Hendrik Streeck on Tuesday and here we provide a recap of his key statements.

 

Mr Streeck is a professor for virology and the director of the Institute of virology and HIV Research at the University Bonn. He explained the methodology of his new study in Heinsberg, the “epicentre” of Germany’s COVID-19 outbreak, and talked about potential plans for a country to move forward gradually in getting back to a “normal” life.

 

During recent weeks, his team completed substantial research conducted through surveys and investigations in homes across the Heinsberg region - where more than 1,400 confirmed cases had been reported. Heinsberg has an approximate population of 250,000 inhabitants and has confirmed 46 coronavirus-related deaths.

 

These research findings have already provided some indication on how the virus works, as Streeck clarified:

“There is no significant risk of catching the disease when you go shopping. Severe outbreaks of the infection were always a result of people being closer together over a longer period of time, for example the après- ski parties in Ischgl, Austria.” He could also not find any evidence of ‘living’ viruses on surfaces. “When we took samples from door handles, phones or toilets it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs….”

 

“To actually 'get' the virus it would be necessary that someone coughs into their hand, immediately touches a door knob and then straight after that another person grasps the handle and goes on to touches their face.” Streeck therefore believes that there is little chance of transmission through contact with so-called contaminated surfaces.

 

RTL Today joined a press conference of virologist Hendrik Streeck on Tuesday and here we provide a recap of his key statements.

 

Mr Streeck is a professor for virology and the director of the Institute of virology and HIV Research at the University Bonn. He explained the methodology of his new study in Heinsberg, the “epicentre” of Germany’s COVID-19 outbreak, and talked about potential plans for a country to move forward gradually in getting back to a “normal” life.

During recent weeks, his team completed substantial research conducted through surveys and investigations in homes across the Heinsberg region - where more than 1,400 confirmed cases had been reported. Heinsberg has an approximate population of 250,000 inhabitants and has confirmed 46 coronavirus-related deaths.

 

These research findings have already provided some indication on how the virus works, as Streeck clarified:

 

“There is no significant risk of catching the disease when you go shopping. Severe outbreaks of the infection were always a result of people being closer together over a longer period of time, for example the après- ski parties in Ischgl, Austria.” He could also not find any evidence of ‘living’ viruses on surfaces. “When we took samples from door handles, phones or toilets it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs….”

 

“To actually 'get' the virus it would be necessary that someone coughs into their hand, immediately touches a door knob and then straight after that another person grasps the handle and goes on to touches their face.” Streeck therefore believes that there is little chance of transmission through contact with so-called contaminated surfaces.

 

The fact that COVID 19 is a droplet infection and cannot be transmitted through the air had previously also been confirmed by virologist Christian Drosten of Berlin's Charité. He had pointed out in an interview that coronavirus is extremely sensitive to drying out, so the only way of contracting it is if you were to “inhale the droplets.”

 

However, there are different findings on how the coronavirus spreads. Experts from the US Institute of Health CDC and NIH had come to the conclusion that the virus can survive 24 hours on paper, three hours in aerosols and up to three days on plastics and stainless steel. As the Robert Koch Institute states on their website, however, scientific studies like this are realised under experimental conditions, which is why they are not very representative for the risk of transmission in daily life. ...

[TH3]

34 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

 

Yup. Those people that haven't taken the time to figure out his style of communicating are usually the ones who are the most upset by what he (didn't really) say. And, I don't blame those people because the sound-byte media distorts an already garbled message and runs it over and over, without context. What's interesting about his communication style to me personally is that it's a perfect example of how Trump's weaknesses (and this is a weakness) serves simultaneously as a strength. There's never been a politician like it before, for better and worse.

 

The stream-of-consciousness communication style is a weakness because his imprecision with language is so different from the polished (and overly sanitized) "off the cuff comments" of the rest of the political class that it's jarring to non-partisans/objective observers. It not only opens him up to easy (and avoidable) attacks by his rivals and enemies, it also has driven a lot of the moderate and independents away from the tent. Yet, all that also serves as a strength. Because despite the audacity of his words, you can't fake being real. Trump's difference in style is entirely genuine and his own, not filtered through think tanks, PR handlers, and his circle of advisers. That's a refreshing breath of fresh air to many people who are tired of the polished talking points from pols that are nothing more than empty words (that sound REALLY good).

 

That's why we've seen, over time, more and more centrists and independents coming back into the fold even though they all wish he'd be more precise with his language rather than a flamethrower. 

and all this time I thought he was a self serving liar and conman who has left a wake of bankrupt partners, jilted customers and unpaid creditors, a guy who promised he was going to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it, balance the budget, pay off the debt, repeal and replace the ACA with something better, denuclearize the Korean peninsula and stiffed on all those promises.....Turns out he just is a stream of consciousness speaker....huh.....

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 I don't want to prognosticate anything for (my home) region since I'm currently in LA (and clearly not a doctor), but I sure hope so! I would guess (GUESS) that they're a week behind NYC, but I hope that's wrong. 

 

Right agree. Thing's going ok in LA?

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, TH3 said:

and all this time I thought 

 

 Stop... you have NOT been thinking for all this time. It's proven by your own (hilariously wrong) posts. You got every single major story wrong in the past four years. Every one. So it's not a surprise that you're analysis of Trump himself is equally as *****. 

[GG]

18 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

5G is about EVERYTHING being connected to the network, not just phones which can easily be switched on and off. There's virtually no "opt-out" involved in 5G networks.

 

 

Not exactly.  5G is an enabling technology.  It's the hardware manufacturers' decision of how to use that technology to get data back and forth.  It's not a given that your refrigerator's diagnostics will be shared with the government.  If governments want to instill a surveillance state, they can do it without 5G.  5G just makes it more efficient.

[outsidethebox]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

We all should see dismantling the pandemic committee in the NSC was a major mistake, though, right? 

 

Just seems like Trump makes so many mistakes that he and his supporters just try and muddy the water with this or that so people forget the really big mistakes he made. 

 

Is their a logical explination for disbanding the NSC pandemic committee? 

I wonder how much the shampeachment distracted the President from his job? I guess you can say the dems in congress has a lot of explaining to do. How many lives could have been saved? 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Right agree. Thing's going ok in LA?

 

My own perspective from LA is warped by the fact I'm immuno-suppressed (so I've been extra careful) and the fact I work in the entertainment industry which is being decimated in the wake of the shutdown. Meaning, I've been given a front row seat to both sides of the debate about both the severity of the virus and the cost of shutting down the entire country. 

 

Our friend/neighbor two doors down in our building has it -- but is young and recovering fine. Though, I'm sure that means it's all over our building. I'm on day 32 of my own lock down, and facing (per LA county) another 32 days of it. Most everyone I know out here has lost their job, or (like me) lost several jobs. So there's a constant back and forth between people being terrified of the bug and terrified they'll never work again in the industry. 

 

... I'm waiting for the anit-body tests because the longer this has gone on the more convinced I am that I had it in December (worst "flu" of my life hit me and my girl as we traveled from LA to Texas to Rochester -- and we promptly got the whole family sick over the holiday). We've been getting (good natured) grief since then from my siblings that we're plague rats, but man if we wound up spreading Covid (and thus giving the family immunity) in December we'd be able to turn that narrative around from plague rats to heroes!