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Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

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8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again 2015 he was over 1000 & played only 13 games (1300 pro-rated)......  Who knows what would have happened as he had worked with TT in the offseason (it was said) prior to the 2017 season.

 

No one knows, but I'll bet if cut, he'll again sign at north of $10,000,000.  I'd be worried he signs with NYJ or Miami......😄

 

I wouldn't be worried at all if he signed with either of them. He had "Mahomes and Auto" throwing to him the past 2 years and put up 519 yards and 673 yards.  Let's get out of fantasyland dude...the fantasyland of "oh what could have been with a player who has all the talent in the world but isn't willing to work hard enough to be great".

 

You think we had D Hopkins, because he has D Hopkins talent but he doesn't have D Hopkins desire to be great.  That's what you and so many others like you fail to see. Physical talent in the NFL isn't enough. Watkins is happy enough to just be there and have a good paying job, he isn't concerned with putting up 1500 yards and dominating his opponents.  And according to many former NFL players, this type of attitude is far more prevalent than you think.

Edited by matter2003

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25 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I wouldn't be worried at all if he signed with either of them. He had "Mahomes and Auto" throwing to him the past 2 years and put up 519 yards and 673 yards.  Let's get out of fantasyland dude...the fantasyland of "oh what could have been with a player who has all the talent in the world but isn't willing to work hard enough to be great".

 

You think we had D Hopkins, because he has D Hopkins talent but he doesn't have D Hopkins desire to be great.  That's what you and so many others like you fail to see. Physical talent in the NFL isn't enough. Watkins is happy enough to just be there and have a good paying job, he isn't concerned with putting up 1500 yards and dominating his opponents.  And according to many former NFL players, this type of attitude is far more prevalent than you think.

And you know the inside story???  You read Sammy Watkins psychological profile?  

 

You maybe 100% right, but I just wanted to see him in 2017 as a Bill & made that decision for myself.

 

Go find the posts with all the experts after the LA Rams that he'd by lucky to sign for $7-8,000,000 & yet there was a bidding war & he got $14,000,000/yr.  

 

Again what makes McD & Beane so much smarter?

 

Are you so happy with the 30, 29 & 24th ranked Offense under McD?

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4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you know the inside story???  You read Sammy Watkins psychological profile?  

 

You maybe 100% right, but I just wanted to see him in 2017 as a Bill & made that decision for myself.

 

Go find the posts with all the experts after the LA Rams that he'd by lucky to sign for $7-8,000,000 & yet there was a bidding war & he got $14,000,000/yr.  

 

Again what makes McD & Beane so much smarter?

 

Are you so happy with the 30, 29 & 24th ranked Offense under McD?

 

Not saying I am happy at all with it but I am also not overpaying for a guy who has 1500 yard talent but puts up 650 with the NFL MVP throwing him the ball in a wide open offense that throws the ball far more than the Bills do. Especially when Hill was suspended for as long as he was this year and Watkins had the chance to take over as a top target and only took advantage of it for the first game where he caught 3 TD's and then didn't catch another one all year until yesterday.  That's what I am talking about.  There is no reason why Watkins should catch 3 TD's in game 1 of the year and then go 17 games before catching another with his talent.  They will address the position in the draft...maybe twice with how deep the class is and hopefully they pick the right guy(s) and not another Zay.

Edited by matter2003
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35 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I wouldn't be worried at all if he signed with either of them. He had "Mahomes and Auto" throwing to him the past 2 years and put up 519 yards and 673 yards.  Let's get out of fantasyland dude...the fantasyland of "oh what could have been with a player who has all the talent in the world but isn't willing to work hard enough to be great".

 

You think we had D Hopkins, because he has D Hopkins talent but he doesn't have D Hopkins desire to be great.  That's what you and so many others like you fail to see. Physical talent in the NFL isn't enough. Watkins is happy enough to just be there and have a good paying job, he isn't concerned with putting up 1500 yards and dominating his opponents.  And according to many former NFL players, this type of attitude is far more prevalent than you think.

 

He's come up big for KC in the 4 playoff games he's played with them 22 catches, 366 yards, 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's coming up big when it matters & is hard to do with the massive amount of talent on KC who spreads the wealth. If he's on the field for Bills against the Texans with Brown & Beasley, we win and advance to play KC.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

He's come up big for KC in the 4 playoff games he's played with them 22 catches, 366 yards, 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's coming up big when it matters & is hard to do with the massive amount of talent on KC who spreads the wealth. If he's on the field for Bills against the Texans with Brown & Beasley, we win and advance to play KC.

 

 

 

They also throw the ball 50 times a game

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13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you know the inside story???  You read Sammy Watkins psychological profile?  

 

You maybe 100% right, but I just wanted to see him in 2017 as a Bill & made that decision for myself.

 

Go find the posts with all the experts after the LA Rams that he'd by lucky to sign for $7-8,000,000 & yet there was a bidding war & he got $14,000,000/yr.  

 

Again what makes McD & Beane so much smarter?

 

Are you so happy with the 30, 29 & 24th ranked Offense under McD?

so...is this team in better shape than it was 3 years ago?  just curious about your opinion.

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3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

They also throw the ball 50 times a game

 

Well we nearly hit that against the Texans(48), didn't we. Sammy is only getting 7 targets a game, but averaging over 90 yards a game in the 4 playoff games. Beats anything our WRs did in their playoff game, Brown had 8 targets and Duke had 10.

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1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

Well we nearly hit that against the Texans(48), didn't we. Sammy is only getting 7 targets a game, but averaging over 90 yards a game in the 4 playoff games. Beats anything our WRs did in their playoff game, Brown had 8 targets and Duke had 10.

 

Yeah, the other team also didn't have Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce to be worrying about either. 

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9 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

He's come up big for KC in the 4 playoff games he's played with them 22 catches, 366 yards, 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's coming up big when it matters & is hard to do with the massive amount of talent on KC who spreads the wealth. If he's on the field for Bills against the Texans with Brown & Beasley, we win and advance to play KC.

 

 

He has come up big but you can't ignore the role he is in.  He is protected from having to face the opponent's best defenders by having Kelce and Hill on the field and Hardman who had a similar season.  Easy to look good when you are drafted 4th overall and have the luxury of being the offense's 4th best weapon.

 

That being said this is why we need more depth.  The playoffs is when you will see matchups further down the depth chart making a more significant impact on the outcome.  

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57 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again 2015 he was over 1000 & played only 13 games (1300 pro-rated)......  Who knows what would have happened as he had worked with TT in the offseason (it was said) prior to the 2017 season.

 

No one knows, but I'll bet if cut, he'll again sign at north of $10,000,000.  I'd be worried he signs with NYJ or Miami......😄


Baltimore would make a TON of sense

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3 minutes ago, billsrul120 said:

He has come up big but you can't ignore the role he is in.  He is protected from having to face the opponent's best defenders by having Kelce and Hill on the field and Hardman who had a similar season.  Easy to look good when you are drafted 4th overall and have the luxury of being the offense's 4th best weapon.

 

That being said this is why we need more depth.  The playoffs is when you will see matchups further down the depth chart making a more significant impact on the outcome.  

 

I don't recall the other games, but I know Gilmore covered Sammy the whole game in their playoff game last year, I just watched the replay of the game on the NFL Network Friday. The doubled Hill & Kelce with other guys. In that game he had 8 catches for 114 yards against what most people believe to be the best corner in the game. 

 

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5 hours ago, FireChans said:

The less talked about move that McD made early was letting Robert Woods leave the building. 2 consecutive 1000 yards seasons with the Rams. Hard worker. Good blocker. 

 

Watkins didn’t really pan out and was a good trade away but boy oh boy could the Bills and Allen used Woods in a big way. 

 

So what was he supposed to do tie woods to a chair and not let him leave.  It was reported at the time that he wanted to go to a west coast team, considering the Bills just changed coaching staffs for the 3rd time in Woods years, can see why he's want nothing to do with staying here add that to the desire to go "Home".  They likely would have had to way overpay for him to stay.

 

Considering in 2017 he would have had TT still throwing to him and in 2018 four different QB's, what would lend you to think his stats would have been any different than the first four years in Buffalo, maybe 40 to 50 catches per season at best.  Maybe this past year would have been similar to what he had in LA, but still wouldn't have had the rest of the offense he had around him in LA.   Bills would be getting blasted for how much they over paid for Woods.

 

Would the Bills have been better off keeping him, yes, but from what was reported, he didn't want to be here.

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8 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

I don't recall the other games, but I know Gilmore covered Sammy the whole game in their playoff game last year, I just watched the replay of the game on the NFL Network Friday. The doubled Hill & Kelce with other guys. In that game he had 8 catches for 114 yards against what most people believe to be the best corner in the game. 

 

I wouldn't put it past the Pats to play gilmore over watkins hoping he can shut him down completely by himself because they felt the need to play zone against hill and they had players who could execute that on a high level.

 

We also don't know to what extent Gilmore had any help that day vs how much help he may have in any normal game.  The defensive gameplan was put together to stop Hill & Kelce.  Watkins took advantage but it would be naive to think he would've caught that many balls if he was the focus of the Pats defensive effort. 

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On 1/13/2020 at 4:21 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Only posting this since some folks have mentioned him as a potential FA WR target, and said he's grown and matured since his last run with the Bills.

 

This tells me differently.

 

 

Grabbin at straws- all players will display some sort of mannerism that may not be seen as positive but he certainly wasn’t screamin at Coach Reid- non story

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19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So what was he supposed to do tie woods to a chair and not let him leave.  It was reported at the time that he wanted to go to a west coast team, considering the Bills just changed coaching staffs for the 3rd time in Woods years, can see why he's want nothing to do with staying here add that to the desire to go "Home".  They likely would have had to way overpay for him to stay.

 

Considering in 2017 he would have had TT still throwing to him and in 2018 four different QB's, what would lend you to think his stats would have been any different than the first four years in Buffalo, maybe 40 to 50 catches per season at best.  Maybe this past year would have been similar to what he had in LA, but still wouldn't have had the rest of the offense he had around him in LA.   Bills would be getting blasted for how much they over paid for Woods.

 

Would the Bills have been better off keeping him, yes, but from what was reported, he didn't want to be here.

Again, he was very good as a Rookie & had over 1000 yards in 12-13 games year 2 & missed half of year 3.....  I would imagine if targeted like OBJ or Hopkins in 2017 & a playoff spot, he'd have been more then happy being a Bill.

 

Explain to me why any skill position player would want to play for the 24th ranked offense & a Defense first coach in a cold weather small town.  You need to overpay or there are no other choices.

 

Hey I'm a Bill fan, just stating reality.  

15 minutes ago, billsrul120 said:

I wouldn't put it past the Pats to play gilmore over watkins hoping he can shut him down completely by himself because they felt the need to play zone against hill and they had players who could execute that on a high level.

 

We also don't know to what extent Gilmore had any help that day vs how much help he may have in any normal game.  The defensive gameplan was put together to stop Hill & Kelce.  Watkins took advantage but it would be naive to think he would've caught that many balls if he was the focus of the Pats defensive effort. 

So now the #1 CB in the NFL couldn't cover a #3 receiver????😉

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5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again, he was very good as a Rookie & had over 1000 yards in 12-13 games year 2 & missed half of year 3.....  I would imagine if targeted like OBJ or Hopkins in 2017 & a playoff spot, he'd have been more then happy being a Bill.

 

Explain to me why any skill position player would want to play for the 24th ranked offense & a Defense first coach in a cold weather small town.  You need to overpay or there are no other choices.

 

 

I was referring to Woods not Watkins.  But in both cases, agree you'd likely need to way overpay

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Lets get some facts straight that are getting skewed here:

  1. Robert Woods CHOSE to leave.  McD did NOT cut him or jettison him, nor was he going to have final say on that anyway being in the building just a month.
    1. He wanted to go back home and play...period.    
    2. Had nothing to do with the QB in Buffalo either, Rams had a 2nd year QB who was coming off a rookie season where he did not look good.  They were not a a good team nor did they have a good QB yet.  That offseason helped transform them into a good team, but at the time Woods joined them, they had not established themselves as a good team yet...just young and rebuilding.  
  2. Watkins is talented.  
  3. Watkins is NOT delivering the value of his contract.  
  4. Watkins will likely be cut this offseason because of his contract.  
  5. Watkins will have a strong market for his services once he is cut and still likely get a $10m+ per year deal.

Bonus Opinion:  Watkins will not be signed by Buffalo as I don't expect either side to be interested.  I don't see Watkins wanting to come home to the regime that traded him in the first place, nor do I expect Beane to spend any sizable money in FA unless its for a DE.  

 

Landing Prediction:  I think the 5 most likely teams he lands on next year are (in no particular order):  Raiders, Jets, Eagles, Cardinals, Jaguars.  Some other possible teams could be:  Packers, Giants, Redskins, Dolphins, Broncos, Ravens, Colts.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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7 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Would have rather seen what he could have done for 2017 as the Bills #1 receiver.

 

I really don't know what happened in LA as he should have been the #1 option, but was not.  Going to KC he was behind Hill & Kelce & after week 2 was not overly targeted (6/game).  You can only catch when thrown to.  

 

Even his catches yesterday he wasn't the primary target on many of them. 

The Bills were trying to tank without actually saying it in 2017.  That's the main reason.  We needed a franchise QB and any draft assets would help us trade up to get one.  Him and Darby were two assets that Beane felt didn't have a future with the Bills for different reasons.  He wasn't going to give either of those two second contracts. Watkins has underwhelmed since he left here so I can't say he made the wrong decision.  Heck, the Rams traded a 1st round pick for Cooks and let Watkins walk because they thought so little of him.

Edited by Doc Brown
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19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again, he was very good as a Rookie & had over 1000 yards in 12-13 games year 2 & missed half of year 3.....  I would imagine if targeted like OBJ or Hopkins in 2017 & a playoff spot, he'd have been more then happy being a Bill.

 

Explain to me why any skill position player would want to play for the 24th ranked offense & a Defense first coach in a cold weather small town.  You need to overpay or there are no other choices.

 

Hey I'm a Bill fan, just stating reality.  

So now the #1 CB in the NFL couldn't cover a #3 receiver????😉

Watkins caught 1 pass for 54 of those 114 on a play where there was a solid 6 seconds from snap to throw.  I didn't go find the others but no I don't expect Gilmore to cover any nfl level WR by himself for 6 seconds.  Not even if they are a 4 or omg a 5.😎

 

Edited by billsrul120

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29 minutes ago, billsrul120 said:

I wouldn't put it past the Pats to play gilmore over watkins hoping he can shut him down completely by himself because they felt the need to play zone against hill and they had players who could execute that on a high level.

 

We also don't know to what extent Gilmore had any help that day vs how much help he may have in any normal game.  The defensive gameplan was put together to stop Hill & Kelce.  Watkins took advantage but it would be naive to think he would've caught that many balls if he was the focus of the Pats defensive effort. 

 

You said he was protected and didn't have to face the opponent's best defenders, I was simply pointing out that he not only faced the Pats*** best defender in last year's AFC Championship game, he faced the best corner currently playing in the NFL. Love these discussions where you prove something wrong and then immediately move on to another thing. Gilmore is often left on an island to cover his guy 1 on 1 with the remaining players focused on the rest of the offense. The one difference is most WRs can't put up those numbers against Gilmore.

 

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2 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

You said he was protected and didn't have to face the opponent's best defenders, I was simply pointing out that he not only faced the Pats*** best defender in last year's AFC Championship game, he faced the best corner currently playing in the NFL. Love these discussions where you prove something wrong and then immediately move on to another thing. Gilmore is often left on an island to cover his guy 1 on 1 with the remaining players focused on the rest of the offense. The one difference is most WRs can't put up those numbers against Gilmore.

 

He faced the best defender in one game in which his team actually ended up losing.  Sounds like the Pats defensive plan worked against a team whose qb threw 50 touchdowns and 5000 yards.

 

The bolded is all conjecture.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:


Baltimore would make a TON of sense

 

 

The Chiefs were phasing him out as the season went on........obviously they know they HAVE to cut him so it made sense to develop other players......and they don't lack for weapons.........but he's been makin' money in the playoffs this year..........if he has a good SB I could see somebody giving him a nice contract and Baltimore would definitely make sense.

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8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

"An offense that was among the league's most effective"? That is utter nonsense. They were an offense that was good at running and below average at passing, an offense that wasn't able to catch up when they fell behind, and an offense that was greatly helped by the very solid defense, and an offense that though it didn't turn the ball over much consistently left the defense with crappy field position despite receiving good field position from that same defense.

 

Like Tryrod or not, that offense was #10 in scoring in the NFL.  An offenses job is to score points.  Doesn't have to be pretty or what you like in regards to offensive styles to be effective.

 

that offense didn't need to make gallant 4th quarter comebacks that often because they were able to score enough points so that the D could protect it.

 

In 2017 there were only 3 opportunities for comebacks.  In one, we were down 7 at the 2:00 warning and won by 3 in regulation( bucs).  Another was against Carolina where Tyrod threw a pass to Zay that probably could have been caught if he had run the right route (Steve Taker, NFL WR said he ran the wrong route).  And the third was Bengals which we blew. So that's 1 out of 3. 

 

Josh was able to get a few vs Jets, Titans, Dolphins but also missed on many oppotunites against mostly good teams like NE twice, Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston.  If you add them all he's probably close to 3 out of 8 which not rally much of a higher percentage than we did before 33% vs 38% (maybe up to 50). 

 

But if we were able to score more points we wouldn't need all these comebacks especially with the defense we have.

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2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Chiefs were phasing him out as the season went on........obviously they know they HAVE to cut him so it made sense to develop other players......and they don't lack for weapons.........but he's been makin' money in the playoffs this year..........if he has a good SB I could see somebody giving him a nice contract and Baltimore would definitely make sense.


I know Ozzie doesn’t run the show anymore, but he checks all the boxes of an Ozzie signing: young veteran, big play ability, stolen from a rival AFC contender, doesn’t count against the comp pick formula, can probably be had at below market value.

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40 minutes ago, billsrul120 said:

Watkins caught 1 pass for 54 of those 114 on a play where there was a solid 6 seconds from snap to throw.  I didn't go find the others but no I don't expect Gilmore to cover any nfl level WR by himself for 6 seconds.  Not even if they are a 4 or omg a 5.😎

 

And don't forget yesterday's TD he was the third option as Mahomes ran around back there.  

 

The point was he produced when called upon. 

 

Here you go on that play.  Watkins beat him plain & simple.....  It happens....

 

https://www.chiefs.com/video/patrick-mahomes-makes-back-foot-54-yard-pass-to-sammy-watkins

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