Long term rosting building starts now: cap space 2020 $89 million & 2021 $198 million

[NoSaint]

Any chump can create space. Getting 115% talent out of 100% spending is the skill, right?

[ToGoGo]

Lock in White, Poyer, and Hyde first. 

[jwhit34]

Looking more than a year ahead isn't very relevant because 2021 will be impacted by the 2020 signings.  Just focus on 2020 and once we get to June or July and the roster takes shape (free agent signings, draft picks, trades and signing their own) only then will 2021 start to take shape. 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

We could have the best roster THFB if we have stupid coaching who flipping cares!!!!

This is simply not true

 

Past Smoke and Bease we are fielding a WR core of JAGS......and frankly those guys are not 1's.....if you actually got a big physical speedy freak that can catch a fricken ball on the boundry we WIN the games we lost this year more often then not.

 

Deven S IS a primary back.....but he cannot carry the rock 20 plus times a game....this team needs a home run hitter RB that comes in and subms out Devin to keep him fresh

 

Lorenzo (god bless him he is one of my favorites) was falling off badly this year and is retiring at the right time.

 

We dont have a dominating edge rusher on the team right now....we get there with defensive scheming

 

Our TE's that have any quality are very young

 

There is absolutely room on our roster for improvements

This tells me this team is poised for a playoff push (even though we have made it 2 out of the last 3 years)

 

It tells me we are ready to take a chance on a couple of high priced players that are the best at what they do SHOULD the opportunity present itself.

 

We know where the team holes are at.......lets get it

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Be forewarned the #'s shown are not consistent.  the mistake is on Spotrac (not the OP)

 

as noted

Quote

 

2020 - 57 players = $89 million in cap space

2021 - 21 players = $189 million in cap space

2022 - 13 players = $374 million in cap space

 

 

 

the 2021 and 2022 #'s are dependent on what gets done in 2020 -  IE how many current FA's get signed / extended and what street FA's they bring in long term.

 

Per Spotrac -

There are only 26* ACTIVE PLAYERS on the Books for 2021, which is (1 player under) HALF a roster.    * Tre'Davious is listed, but @ Zero $ because that's the 5th year option.

 

What looks like a Brinks Truck of cash ...  Isn't when you look at it closely.  

 

2020 has (42) ACTIVE PLAYERS and $89,035,801 in spending money. 

 

People have been clamoring for Stud WR's and and TE's and pass rush DE's and a bruiser RB. 

 

5 super star ALL Pro players at $10 to $15 Mil per contract will eat 1/2 to 3/4 of the cap. ($50 to $75 Mil)

 

 

 

Spend wisely Mr Beane 

Also....  Remember that the Bills have been keeping $12 to 20 Mil in reserve for "emergencies" the last 2 or 3 seasons (which has been rolled over).  So while it's there, it doesn't get used. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Be forewarned the #'s shown are not consistent.  the mistake is on Spotrac (not the OP)

 

as noted

 

 

the 2021 and 2022 #'s are dependent on what gets done in 2020 -  IE how many current FA's get signed / extended and what street FA's they bring in long term.

 

Per Spotrac -

There are only 26* ACTIVE PLAYERS on the Books for 2021, which is (1 player under) HALF a roster.    * Tre'Davious is listed, but @ Zero $ because that's the 5th year option.

 

What looks like a Brinks Truck of cash ...  Isn't when you look at it closely.  

 

2020 has (42) ACTIVE PLAYERS and $89,035,801 in spending money. 

 

People have been clamoring for Stud WR's and and TE's and pass rush DE's and a bruiser RB. 

 

5 super star ALL Pro players at $10 to $15 Mil per contract will eat 1/2 to 3/4 of the cap. ($50 to $75 Mil)

 

 

 

Spend wisely Mr Beane 

Also....  Remember that the Bills have been keeping $12 to 20 Mil in reserve for "emergencies" the last 2 or 3 seasons (which has been rolled over).  So while it's there, it doesn't get used. 

This correct^^

 

(Next comment is not directed at you personally kind sir - it just fits and should be clarified) 

 

The point of this thread was not to insinuate that we have brinks trucks of cash (we do, but we also have important players we want to resign and you have to fill out the entire roster) - it is that there is a lot of flexibility in reshaping the roster over the next 3 years due to expiring contracts and this creates a lot of salary cap room as the roster size (as of now) decreases as contracts expire.

 

If you want to take money and invest in an Amari Cooper, Austin Hooper and Yannick - we can afford it and we will be letting contracts expire for some players as a result which will create a need to fill - just remember the value (in terms of cap hits and schemes) of all positions are not equal. 

 

This will provide us with an opportunity to look at positions that our offensive and defensive schemes require premium players and others where you can get by with so-so players. This is also why I posted the positional cap hit charts vs the league average and other teams.

 

Here is an example:

 

If you look at the Defensive side of the ball, CBs & LBs are cheaper than the league average, while Safety as of now is at the league average - are we willing to go above the league average to re-sign Poyer (and take money from other positions) or

 

With Poyer; it is possible that his replacement will be drafted in the 2020 or 2021 draft or signed as an FA on a much cheaper deal. The rationale is that we play a lot of Zone Coverage and Zone DBs are cheaper than M2M, so you can get by paying a bit less than the league average at DB perhaps and reinvest that money in another position that we want to pay over the average in. This would allow us to fit McDs vision of generating pressure with 4 players, if we want a stout 4 man pass rush, you sign Yannick and take Poyer's raise and reallocate it to that premium position. In turn, this will lessen the need for a both #1 WR and #1 Edge in the draft, this will give us the flexibility to move around to grab the WR we are targeting and there is better positional value for Safety in RDs 2-3 vs Edge.

 

Please don't turn this into another Poyer thread - it is just an example to show how our long-term roster building will start around the core we have drafted the last 3 years. As we go through this offseason, keep in mind not to just focus on what a current hole is, look at the BPA based on positional value in the draft round as well and understand what we value as a premium position to get a feel for where we may go, we have the cash and flexibility to reshape the roster around these players...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

This correct^^

 

(Next comment is not directed at you personally kind sir - it just fits and should be clarified) 

 

The point of this thread was not to insinuate that we have brinks trucks of cash (we do, but we also have important players we want to resign and you have to fill out the entire roster) - it is that there is a lot of flexibility in reshaping the roster over the next 3 years due to expiring contracts and this creates a lot of salary cap room as the roster size (as of now) decreases as contracts expire.

 

If you want to take money and invest in an Amari Cooper, Austin Hooper and Yannick - we can afford it and we will be letting contracts expire for some players as a result which will create a need to fill - just remember the value (in terms of cap hits and schemes) of all positions are not equal. 

 

This will provide us with an opportunity to look at positions that our offensive and defensive schemes require premium players and others where you can get by with so-so players. This is also why I posted the positional cap hit charts vs the league average and other teams.

 

Here is an example:

 

If you look at the Defensive side of the ball, CBs & LBs are cheaper than the league average, while Safety as of now is at the league average - are we willing to go above the league average to re-sign Poyer (and take money from other positions) or

 

With Poyer; it is possible that his replacement will be drafted in the 2020 or 2021 draft or signed as an FA on a much cheaper deal. The rationale is that we play a lot of Zone Coverage and Zone DBs are cheaper than M2M, so you can get by paying a bit less than the league average at DB perhaps and reinvest that money in another position that we want to pay over the average in. This would allow us to fit McDs vision of generating pressure with 4 players, if we want a stout 4 man pass rush, you sign Yannick and take Poyer's raise and reallocate it to that premium position. In turn, this will lessen the need for a both #1 WR and #1 Edge in the draft, this will give us the flexibility to move around to grab the WR we are targeting and there is better positional value for Safety in RDs 2-3 vs Edge.

 

Please don't turn this into another Poyer thread - it is just an example to show how our long-term roster building will start around the core we have drafted the last 3 years. As we go through this offseason, keep in mind not to just focus on what a current hole is, look at the BPA based on positional value in the draft round as well and understand what we value as a premium position to get a feel for where we may go, we have the cash and flexibility to reshape the roster around these players...

 

I do not disagree with your point of lots of cash roster building.  

 

I just wanted to indicate that money can disappear quite fast. 

A true #1 WR won't come cheap. 

An elite TE  won't come cheap.

An elite DE  won't come cheap.

 

I think they still need to work on the O Line and getting another solid O Lineman will also cost them. 

[NewEra]

16 hours ago, Mc1320 said:

As of right now we only have 27 players under contract for the 2021 season.  Tre will set the market at cornerback and we have a number of guys on expiring rookie deals like Dawkins and Milano that will be getting paid, so this money will go quickly.

The key will be hitting on the draft picks the next 2 years.  We’re bound to lose a player or two that we’ll be upset about, hopefully we can hit on a couple more mid round picks

[GETTOTHE50]

Get an elite offensive line, sign Henry, and hire a new OC who knows how to utilize the play action where Josh is most effective.

 

Henry and Motor outta the backfield? Game over

[klos63]

Just a wild guess here, but I think as we approach 2022, we'll have more than 13 players under contract so probably not looking at $370 million in cap space.

[ColoradoBills]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Why is Austin Proehl on that 2021 list? He isn't back on the PS is he? 

 

Of the 2021 guys.... Jerry Hughes and Tyler Kroft definitely won't be on the team in 2021 (Kroft won't in 2020) and Star is not assured of his spot either. 

 

Spotrac has an error with Proehl from an old futures contract.  They will catch it soon.

If anyone has a "Premium Spotrac Account" they can notify them about the error.

I'm thinking of getting one for this off season.

Edit:  Error is actually from his initial rookie deal.

 

16 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

I might swing for Hooper; I am really becoming more comfortable with it - it buys Knox time to develop and lessen the pressure to produce right away and gives Josh a target who is ready to go. Can easily run some 2 TE sets as well and have even more fun on offense.

 

I'm warming to the Hooper idea.  Atlanta is in cap trouble and he could be stolen away.

 

 

Going forward these things usually go thru the following steps.

1.  More futures contracts.

2.  Start signing our own FAs.

3.  Cut any "unwanted" players.

4.  Acquiring other teams FAs.

5.  Trades.

6.  Draft.

7.  UDFA signings.

 

Contract extensions can be done anytime during these other steps.

 

Lots to "discuss" coming up.

Edited January 6, 2020 by ColoradoBills

[Pete]

I sign Clowney to replace Lorax, and devote rest of resources to fixing offense.  With all that cap room and draft picks- there is no excuse for not having a great offense next season 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Pete

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Just a wild guess here, but I think as we approach 2022, we'll have more than 13 players under contract so probably not looking at $370 million in cap space.

The point that @Reed83HOF is making is that the Bills cap space for now and the future is very bright.

 

Of course the cap numbers for 2021 & 2022 will decrease with the signings of other players.

 

The Bills are in a position to be big spenders yet still have a good amount of cap room for the future.

 

Would that be a fair assessment, Reed83HOF? 

[Reed83HOF]

12 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

I do not disagree with your point of lots of cash roster building.  

 

I just wanted to indicate that money can disappear quite fast. 

A true #1 WR won't come cheap. 

An elite TE  won't come cheap.

An elite DE  won't come cheap.

 

I think they still need to work on the O Line and getting another solid O Lineman will also cost them. 

So I posted a bit more in the 2020 roster thread looking back at what Beane and McD have said historically

 

Highlights are: 

 

1.) Being able to rush four as opposed to having to pressure, that gives defensive coordinators a lot of flexibility

2.) just philosophically it’s a critical piece for us in terms of that position and being able to pressure the quarterback inside out.

3.) Set your board to their skill set and how you think they will fit what you do.

4.) In FA 

a.) “We focus on what are our areas of greatest need. What do we want to come out of free agency with at the very minimum?

b.) If our cap dollars are short we set a priority for coming out of it with a minimum of some good talent at these three positions

c.) You’re always greedy. You’re always saying you can try to upgrade here or there

d.) We still have plenty of room to maneuver, should the opportunity be there for a marquee player becomes available via trade or release

 

A few other things to add:

1.) You use free agency to help you so you’re not going to the Draft in April with all these holes, and now you’re drafting for need.”

2.) “We’ve got cap room, and we’re going to use it to fill some holes.” He added, “But we’ve also got to be wise with our money so that when these guys (veterans) are headed into years three and four (Tre’Davious, Matt Milano, that class) when they come up, we have money to spend.”

3.) “It’s a matter of balancing the draft and free agency.”  Schoen understands the risks of free agency and how it could hinder long-term draft selections, stating, “Until we can pay some of our own young players that are homegrown, you have to be very careful who you’re paying from the outside and bringing into your locker room.”

4.) He’s a good player that plays hard, brings his lunch pail, and he’s a guy that fits the way we play on the field.

 

I think premium positions for us is 4 man aggressive pass rush - can Yannick fill that role for us? Is he a good player that plays hard and brings his lunch pail? Do we see him as a marquee player? He is young enough and we do have the room to get it done. When I look at this draft at pick 22 we have a shot at Shenault (WR) or Yetur Gross-Matos (DE), the draft is deep at WR and not as much at DE - I may be willing to go after DE in FA Yannick is only 24 and fits what we want to do defensively. This allows me to focus RD1 on a WR and to be able to move to acquire our target. RDs 2-3 have a couple good RT/CB and Safety prospects which make me look at those positions as viable upgrade routes and keeping a good cap balance. Our extra 4, 5 & 6 can give us ammo to move back into 3 and around to target BPAs. 

 

An elite TE will be around $10 million or so and I think I am ok with giving that money to that position which usually takes about 3 years to develop instead of spending it on AJ Green or Cooper. We still get an established toy for Josh at a cheaper cap hit and we still get a true #1 via the draft. 

 

 

 

[Mark Vader]

18 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

They can swing for the fences if they want. 
They can continue to build with bargain free agents. But luckily we’re in position to offer draft picks for an impact player. We’re picking low 20’s Beane should be floating that first rounder around the league this offseason looking to grab a real weapon for this offense. 
As bad as yesterday was the team is in fantastic shape. I am still very excited about our core players. 

Are you suggesting that Beane should trade up in the first round?

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

Are you suggesting that Beane should trade up in the first round?

I’m not against it if they think they’re getting a real game changer but in that post I was suggesting more offering that 1st to trade for an impact guy. I would offer our first for maybe Stefon Diggs (Vikings cap issues) 

Mike Evans (Godwin has emerged and they’re undecided on Winston) 

I would rather trade the 1st for a proven guy with some years left than draft a receiver in the 20’s hoping he hits and produces year one. Of course it could take more picks or they may not be available but it wouldn’t hurt Beane to try and float that first out there. There could be a team desperate to move up for a quarterback that would like our 1st as ammo to move. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Spotrac has an error with Proehl from an old futures contract.  They will catch it soon.

If anyone has a "Premium Spotrac Account" they can notify them about the error.

I'm thinking of getting one for this off season.

Edit:  Error is actually from his initial rookie deal.

 

 

I'm warming to the Hooper idea.  Atlanta is in cap trouble and he could be stolen away.

 

 

Going forward these things usually go thru the following steps.

1.  More futures contracts.

2.  Start signing our own FAs.

3.  Cut any "unwanted" players.

4.  Acquiring other teams FAs.

5.  Trades.

6.  Draft.

7.  UDFA signings.

 

Contract extensions can be done anytime during these other steps.

 

Lots to "discuss" coming up.

 

This year is fugging fascinating from a long term and even short term roster building, everything can realistically be on the table - just beware what you overspend on a position now, will have to be taken away from another position. 

 

Hooper is 25, Yannick is 24 you can get a developed TE and a developed Edge, who are entering their primes, without having to draft either of these positions by signing them as FAs - you have the cap space and from a scheme perspective if you heavily weight Edge and TE you can add them today, whether you stagger the cap hits for 2020, 2021 or 2022 we have the space to do it. That frees you up in the draft to add WR#1 on a cheap contract for the next 5 years add RT/CB2 and safety replacements this year.

 

If you want to get real creative, draft a run stuffing MLB or sign a solid run stopper LB and slide Edmunds over to fill LorAx's spot; on 3rd downs he comes off the field for your big nickel DB...

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I’m not against it if they think they’re getting a real game changer but in that post I was suggesting more offering that 1st to trade for an impact guy. I would offer our first for maybe Stefon Diggs (Vikings cap issues) 

Mike Evans (Godwin has emerged and they’re undecided on Winston) 

I would rather trade the 1st for a proven guy with some years left than draft a receiver in the 20’s hoping he hits and produces year one. Of course it could take more picks or they may not be available but it wouldn’t hurt Beane to try and float that first out there. There could be a team desperate to move up for a quarterback that would like our 1st as ammo to move. 

 

While we have the resources and room to do pretty much anything we want, trading a 1st round pick for a player you have to also immediately sign to a high-market contract is not typically good team building. Need to have those 1st round talents on rookie contracts in order to afford the high-priced vets.

 

But if we did trade for Diggs or Evans, I wouldnt be funding any billboards for Beanes firing either.

[Blancobill]

hat do you think comes from all these nationally televised game ratings being through the roof? 

 

More spotlight games? Tweaks to uniform? 

 

I feel weve gotten significantly more attention even to the highest levels of the nfl. As this team has set what.. four separate game televised highest ratings?

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While we have the resources and room to do pretty much anything we want, trading a 1st round pick for a player you have to also immediately sign to a high-market contract is not typically good team building. Need to have those 1st round talents on rookie contracts in order to afford the high-priced vets.

 

But if we did trade for Diggs or Evans, I wouldnt be funding any billboards for Beanes firing either.

Diggs and Evans are already signed up until 2024. No contract needed if they’re traded here. It’s still a long shot but something I’m sure they’ll look into with all teams 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Rc2catch said:

Diggs and Evans are already signed up until 2024. No contract needed if they’re traded here. It’s still a long shot but something I’m sure they’ll look into with all teams 

 

Same thing, they're already signed to high-market contracts. Point is combining using a 1st AND a lot of cap room is a very dangerous move.

[LabattBlue]

Half the league currently has at least 50 mil in cap space going into the off-season.  It's not like the Bills are the only team with money to spend...the few above average F/A's come March will have plenty of suitors.

[Reed83HOF]

10 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Are you suggesting that Beane should trade up in the first round?

You may have to move a little, I have done a couple mocks and studied the WRs a little bit, but haven't fully looked at needs yet for us and those in front of us (won't know until after the first round of FA anyways), but their is a chance that the first top group of WRs is gone by Oakland/Philly which pick right in front of us. 

 

As of today it looks like we could have a chance at Edge Yetur Gross-Matos or WR Laviska Shenault Jr. at 22. 

 

 

RD1 WRS are in no particular order:

 

1.) CeeDee Lamb

2.) Jerry Juedy

3.) Tee Higgins

4.) Henry Ruggs

5.) Laviska Shenault Jr.

 

All 5 might be gone before us, so if we feel one of those 5 is better than the next group - you will need to move. The top 2 are going to go quick in the top 5-10 IMO

[Rc2catch]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Same thing, they're already signed to high-market contracts. Point is combining using a 1st AND a lot of cap room is a very dangerous move.

Lot of talk of signing AJ Green or Amari Cooper and they’d both cost more of the cap and no guarantee you get them albeit no draft pick involved. I’d take Diggs right now over just about anyone available at pick 22. Basically pay a little more for 4 years of production. But it’s almost guaranteed production versus hoping the rookie produces 

[Reed83HOF]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Half the league currently has at least 50 mil in cap space going into the off-season.  It's not like the Bills are the only team with money to spend...the few above average F/A's come March will have plenty of suitors.

 

Us, the Titans, & the Seachickens

 

These teams are going to lose some very good players:

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

The point that @Reed83HOF is making is that the Bills cap space for now and the future is very bright.

 

Of course the cap numbers for 2021 & 2022 will decrease with the signings of other players.

 

The Bills are in a position to be big spenders yet still have a good amount of cap room for the future.

 

Would that be a fair assessment, Reed83HOF? 

Exactly and you can shuffle your cap dollars you currently have spend to other positions. For instance, as the pass rush increases maybe you can get by without resigning Poyer and Hyde? Does LorAx's replacement need to be a 3 down LB or can you slide Edmunds over and get a cheap 2 down run thumper? 

 

You can then take the "savings" and reallocate it by pilfer players from ATL, JAX, MIN, NO, PITT fairly easy this year. Hooper and Yannick stick out like sore thumbs (TB looks to have the space and willingness to take Shaq Barrett off the market). That gives you a 25 yr old pass catching TE and a 24 year old Edge who are experienced, developed, producing and entering their prime in premiere positions that will only get more expensive year after year. 

[Mark Vader]

46 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

You may have to move a little, I have done a couple mocks and studied the WRs a little bit, but haven't fully looked at needs yet for us and those in front of us (won't know until after the first round of FA anyways), but their is a chance that the first top group of WRs is gone by Oakland/Philly which pick right in front of us. 

 

As of today it looks like we could have a chance at Edge Yetur Gross-Matos or WR Laviska Shenault Jr. at 22. 

 

 

RD1 WRS are in no particular order:

 

1.) CeeDee Lamb

2.) Jerry Juedy

3.) Tee Higgins

4.) Henry Ruggs

5.) Laviska Shenault Jr.

 

All 5 might be gone before us, so if we feel one of those 5 is better than the next group - you will need to move. The top 2 are going to go quick in the top 5-10 IMO

I agree that Lamb & Jeudy will go fast.

 

The Bills will be in an interesting spot, and yes, we have to see how free agency plays out first.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/06/buffalo-bills-quinton-spain-deal-with-buffalo-bills/

Bills guard Quinton Spain, who is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent, discussed his plans moving forward. He signed with the Bills late last offseason, but only inked a one-year deal with Buffalo at the time, and he wouldn’t mind landing another one with the Bills before becoming a free agent, too.

 

“I’m going to leave that to my agent,” Spain said. “I told my agent, if they really want me and want me to be here, I would like to get something done before free agency starts.”

Spain joined the Bills this past year after spending his first four seasons in the league with the Tennessee Titans. Spain became an integral part of the Bills revamped offensive line, playing every snap while not allowing a sack during the entire 2019 regular season.

 

That did not go unnoticed by Buffalo quarterback Josh Allen, either. Allen wanted the left guard back.

“The mindset, the way he play… he brings a fire,” Allen said. “I wish we get him back… I hope he knows I love him.”

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

18 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Lot of talk of signing AJ Green or Amari Cooper and they’d both cost more of the cap and no guarantee you get them albeit no draft pick involved. I’d take Diggs right now over just about anyone available at pick 22. Basically pay a little more for 4 years of production. But it’s almost guaranteed production versus hoping the rookie produces 

 

Not a fan of signing AJ Green or Cooper. I dont think Green has enough left in the tank to be effective enough for what he'll cost. And Cooper lead the league in drops, which the Bills already have well covered.