Everybody should be ticked off

[Buffbills716]

2 hours ago, coloradobillsfan said:

 

This is pretty much where I'm at.  Felt a lot like this after Ronnie Harmon.  AFCE should be wide open next year, and we have the resources to keep everyone we want plus fill the holes.  Chips on shoulders can provide a lot of motivation.  

Except for one thing--we had Kelly.

[Elite Poster]

13 hours ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, it’s not a totally unreasonable standard.

 

You aren't allowed to win the division until year 10 of the rebuild

[CaptnCoke11]

13 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Next year's schedule is going to be brutal after this minor league lineup we played this year. Even if you're really on board with this squad, it's going to be an uphill battle to have a winning season.

Did you look into your crystal ball?

[starrymessenger]

I'm very impressed with Allen and with his development. It seems clear to me that his accuracy has improved. He still has a ways to go but he is more consistent than ever he was last year and he is improving relative to the types of throws that have been problematic- long balls and routine "gimmie" rhythm passes. His intermediate range throws have pretty much been consistently above average. I thought his first half yesterday was outstanding. His "on" and "off" switch was not in evidence on individual series. He was good on each possession. And when he's good he's actually a lot better than that. He trends towards the upper tier of QBs, and I would even venture "elite" (assuming full use of his toolbox, including his arm strength). Of course a half of great play is not a complete game (and far less than a series of games or a complete season) but if overall you see continuous improvement you chalk it up to development.

 

Having said that the disastrous second half yesterday is hardly all on Allen. To the contrary, it was the failure of the O-line to adjust to or otherwise deal with the changes RC made to his D, especially the pass rush, that caused the problems. Like most QBs Allen is best when pass protected. Do that for him and he can beat you with his arm and his legs. When the bulk of passing downs feature D-Line jailbreaks his "bad habits" tend to resurface (not surprisingly) especially when out of desperation he tries to compensate by doing too much. JJ Watt is a great player. He's even better than that when he's unblocked. Bottom line Allen's toolbox is elite and he is showing progression in terms of translating all of that to the field.

 

I agree with those who complain about the Bill's conservative philosophy. It is most obvious in the game planning and play calling on offence (esp when they go into a shell after taking the lead) but it also suffuces the defensive side of things as well, though with better results. I think McD is the reason for this but I am withholding judgement. When he and Beane showed up they had to build from the ground up. I suppose there is nothing necessarily wrong with prioritizing the D in advance of the O and one would have to agree that that part of the job has been successfully accomplished, even if there is still work to do and room for improvement. Clearly the O is much more a work in progress. Maybe if McD had trusted more in what Allen is able to do at this point in his career they would not have won 10 games and would have been less competitive in some of the games they lost. So maybe the brass saw this mindset as giving the team the best chance of winning and making the playoffs this year. But I think we can all expect a serious infusion of talent in the O-line and skill positions this off season in FA and in the draft. If after that happens the offence continues to play for FGs, is in effect relegated to a support group for a top defence on which you primarily rely to win, then I would begin to question McD's approach. I want to see a fully developed offence and not something that is not conducive to Allen's continued progression. Relegating him to game manager status and playing not to lose will not bring out the best in him or the team IMO. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by starrymessenger

[Teddy KGB]

3 hours ago, McBean said:

spot on.

 

McDermott is Jeff Fisher 2.0.

nailed it, gonna need a better OC to get anything done 

[Green Lightning]

59 minutes ago, Chaos said:

What I saw was a head coach he told his team to play fearlessly, then blamed the playoff loss on the qb "trying to do to much".  Do you have a links to examples of where e publically held himself accountable?

Yeah, I memorize all the links to stories pertaining to the Bills. In a profile of Sean, he said that between seasons he grades everything about his staff and team beginning with himself. And he seeks input from others on his performance. Believe what you want 

[Nextmanup]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep.

 

They beat on some bad teams....the one decent win was thanksgiving against an 8-8 Dallas team.

And even the T-giving win has been greatly inflated by Bills fans.  That's mostly b/c we were playing a big market team on a national stage, and for the Bills that usually means "loss."

For those reasons alone, Bills fans interpreted that win to be more than it was.

Dallas was not a particularly good football team this year.

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

And even the T-giving win has been greatly inflated by Bills fans.  That's mostly b/c we were playing a big market team on a national stage, and for the Bills that usually means "loss."

For those reasons alone, Bills fans interpreted that win to be more than it was.

Dallas was not a particularly good football team this year.

 

 

^^ gets so angry when Allen plays good.  
 

why are you even here ? 

[RiotAct]

14 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

You aren't allowed to win the division until year 10 of the rebuild

ahhh, right, I keep forgetting 

[Chaos]

7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Yeah, I memorize all the links to stories pertaining to the Bills. In a profile of Sean, he said that between seasons he grades everything about his staff and team beginning with himself. And he seeks input from others on his performance. Believe what you want 

so no public accountability. does blame others in public though.  can we agree on that? 

[Buffbills716]

1 hour ago, jimmy10 said:

Good advice. What’s that prayer? Grant me the wisdom to know the difference between what I can change and what I can’t. Something like that. 
 

People are emotional, I get it. I am too. But it’s not healthy to hold on to so much negativity and anger, especially about something we can’t control. I’ve come to learn that in my life and I hope others learn it as well. Anyone, feel free to PM me if you need any help finding resources. 

I agree.  But my frustration is that I and others saw this coming with Allen all year.  I knew we could keep up with any team, but had serous doubts in an offense that had as much trouble scoring points on lousy teams as it did on good ones.  Allen is to blame for most of that, but Daboll should have had the foresight to adjust to Allen's weaknesses and simplified the playbook, giving him the confidence to compensate for those weaknesses.  Couple that with a lack of offensive rhythm and head-scratching play calls only added to Allen's anxiety and the feeling that he had to do more than he should have.  I know if I had accuracy issues, the last thing I would want my OC to do is put me in multiple 3rd and long situations, forcing me to make the very throws I am having trouble with.  Having a release value to go to when in trouble as opposed to just taking off and running all the time would have been the right thing to instill in him.  Trying to "get it all" with 20 yard throws was just mind boggling as well.  There is no shame in dumping it off to a running back or TE when in trouble, and for the life of me, cannot understand why Daboll/McD did not chastise him for not doing on a regular basis.  Hell, even Barkley could do that!  This only makes me think that either Allen is not too bright, not being coached well, or a combination of the two.  Wake him up by benching him for a series or two if need be.  If he is not listening in practice, then maybe he will in front of an audience!  Either way, something must be done, or we are in for a very long next season!

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

27 minutes ago, Buffbills716 said:

Except for one thing--we had Kelly.

I love Kelly as much as the next guy, but go back and really look at his stats. A different time, with different rules I get it, but 60.1 completion percentage, 221 yards per game, 237 TDs vs 175 INTs career & 84.4 QB Rating and he got to get his feet wet in the USFL for 2 years, not in the much harder to play NFL. Thurman was the one that made our offense go back in the day, Kelly was the benefactor of it. Josh doesn't have an absolute weapon like that, who for several years was probably the best player on the field in every game, though if yesterday was any indicator Singletary may fill a similar role.  Going forward after first Pats*** game Josh had 17 TDs and 3 INTs, again only 3 INTs over the last 13 games including the playoff game. I'll take a nearly 6 to 1 TD to INT ratio any day of the week and twice on Sundays please. That ratio was only achieved by 4 QBs this year: Brees, Jackson, Wilson & Rodgers, that's pretty good company to keep. Does he make a few boneheaded plays in most games and miss some open WRs, yup, but he improved quite a bit during the offseason and again on the fly after the first Pats**** game. I like where he's headed and hopefully with another offseason of improvements he should be well on his way to where we want him. He's come so far since last year when it was look at your first option and if it's not there RUN!!!! That's what Daboll was telling him last year because truth be known Josh wasn't ready to be a starting QB in the NFL, but Peterman was God awful. He's come a long, long way since then.

[BillsVet]

4 hours ago, mead107 said:

How many experts even had us going to the playoffs when the season started? 
so, did we over achieve? 
 

think most had us at the bottom of the division? 

 

You get out to the start they did and the expectations change.  Going 5-1 doesn't justify keeping the same pre-season expectations.  

 

3 hours ago, McBean said:

Yep. 
 

This FO is obsessed with defense. Ditch the defensive mindset and adopt a SCORE POINTS mindset.

 

This entire offseason should be devoted to signing playmakers on offense. 

 

McD is the dominant voice at OBD and he has prioritized a defense that he builds with his guys.  Beane's role is supporting McD to find those players who fit.  That said, yes, the prioritization of defense should not be the case moving forward, especially with a young QB they moved up for.  He is their franchise, not McD's defense. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

McD is the dominant voice at OBD and he has prioritized a defense that he builds with his guys.  Beane's role is supporting McD to find those players who fit.  That said, yes, the prioritization of defense should not be the case moving forward, especially with a young QB they moved up for.  He is their franchise, not McD's defense. 

For sure BillsVet. 4 out of their last 5 first round picks have been on defense and the other of course Josh. Not one was used for an offensive skill position or O-Lineman.

[popcornpam]

14 hours ago, Cal said:

I agree. Maybe cause we are use to losing so many years, we are happy with anything positive. This team is along way from championship caliber.

And it starts with those conservative coaches the only game they didn’t play conservative was the Dallas game

[Buffbills716]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

I love Kelly as much as the next guy, but go back and really look at his stats. A different time, with different rules I get it, but 60.1 completion percentage, 221 yards per game, 237 TDs vs 175 INTs career & 84.4 QB Rating and he got to get his feet wet in the USFL for 2 years, not in the much harder to play NFL. Thurman was the one that made our offense go back in the day, Kelly was the benefactor of it. Josh doesn't have an absolute weapon like that, who for several years was probably the best player on the field in every game, though if yesterday was any indicator Singletary may fill a similar role.  Going forward after first Pats*** game Josh had 17 TDs and 3 INTs, again only 3 INTs over the last 13 games including the playoff game. I'll take a nearly 6 to 1 TD to INT ratio any day of the week and twice on Sundays please. That ratio was only achieved by 4 QBs this year: Brees, Jackson, Wilson & Rodgers, that's pretty good company to keep. Does he make a few boneheaded plays in most games and miss some open WRs, yup, but he improved quite a bit during the offseason and again on the fly after the first Pats**** game. I like where he's headed and hopefully with another offseason of improvements he should be well on his way to where we want him. He's come so far since last year when it was look at your first option and if it's not there RUN!!!! That's what Daboll was telling him last year because truth be known Josh wasn't ready to be a starting QB in the NFL, but Peterman was God awful. He's come a long, long way since then.

Stats tell one story, actual play tells the other.  How many of those Kelly completions kept drives going, where they didn't have to settle for a FG or at the least, gave the defense a rest?  There was only one other season ( I believe it was in '90 or '91) where Kelly had more yards in a single season--the other?  The 4-12 '86 season.  Stats are important, but I would take a QB who makes smart decisions, takes what the defense gives him, and recognizes that he can't put everything on his shoulders, and shouldn't try to force/make things happen on a regular basis.  Allen needs to learn when to take his foot off the gas.  He has come a long way, and I am rooting for him, but he needs to think rather than react.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 minutes ago, Buffbills716 said:

Stats tell one story, actual play tells the other.  How many of those Kelly completions kept drives going, where they didn't have to settle for a FG or at the least, gave the defense a rest?  There was only one other season ( I believe it was in '90 or '91) where Kelly had more yards in a single season--the other?  The 4-12 '86 season.  Stats are important, but I would take a QB who makes smart decisions, takes what the defense gives him, and recognizes that he can't put everything on his shoulders, and shouldn't try to force/make things happen on a regular basis.  Allen needs to learn when to take his foot off the gas.  He has come a long way, and I am rooting for him, but he needs to think rather than react.

The OC put everything on his shoulders, why do see the faults of our QB, but make no mention of the zillion faults of our OC. 46 passes, 9 rushes & 1 reception that produced the only TD(56 total plays he was directly involved in). The other plays 13 rushes by Singletary & 8 by Gore. That's 56 vs 21. They were 11-21 on First Downs, drove the ball all game long and Josh made several tight window 3rd down passes that most QBs in this league can't make and many of those he did so on the run while scrambling out of trouble which makes that even less QBs in this league can make. The play calling and penalties killed more drives than Josh did. Again he made 4 or 5 boneheaded plays, I won't deny that, but don't say he shouldn't put everything on his shoulders while the OC did just that.

 

[Buffbills716]

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

The OC put everything on his shoulders, why do see the faults of our QB, but make no mention of the zillion faults of our OC. 46 passes, 9 rushes & 1 reception that produced the only TD(56 total plays he was directly involved in). The other plays 13 rushes by Singletary & 8 by Gore. That's 56 vs 21. They were 11-21 on First Downs, drove the ball all game long and Josh made several tight window 3rd down passes that most QBs in this league can't make and many of those he did so on the run while scrambling out of trouble which makes that even less QBs in this league can make. The play calling and penalties killed more drives than Josh did. Again he made 4 or 5 boneheaded plays, I won't deny that, but don't say he shouldn't put everything on his shoulders while the OC did just that.

 

Good argument.  I was just trying to point out that stats alone do not define a QB.  Every time Kelly dropped back to pass in '86 for example, I thought something big was going to happen (even with Hank Bullough at the reigns).  With Allen, I get knots.  I like him, and know that with better talent and an effective OC, he should do well.

[RaoulDuke79]

14 hours ago, McBean said:

Anybody on here happy with participation trophies, GTFO. The Bills just had an epic meltdown on national TV to a NOT GOOD Texans team. O, and we haven’t won a playoff game still since 1995.

 

McClappy and Daboll conservative tails cost us this game. This is what happens when you don’t go for the throat. Bill O’Brien was begging the Bills to beat his team, and they didn’t take advantage.

 

Running Frank Gore on 2nd down, punting at the Houston 38, and settling for FG’s cost this team. It’s a crying shame this team isn’t playing next week and it’s due to the conservative mindset from the top.

 

O, and don’t go to the airport and cheer on a team that totally collapsed. Raise the damn standard here and demand more. Ridiculous.

 

Wasted season, and next year the standard should be nothing less than AFC EAST CHAMPS. If not, heads need to roll.

 

 

Ok.....you convinced me. I'm ticked off. Now what?

[34-78-83]

6 hours ago, finn said:

So all the good or incredible things the Bills did--the touchdown call, the huge screen to Singletary, Allen's incredible across-the-body throw on the run, the beautiful pass to Williams in the end zone, the seven sacks, shutting down one of the best WRs in the game, all the excellent plays and calls and stops are mere givens. Praising or savoring them amounts to giving out "participation trophies," as is the mere fact that the Bills got to the playoffs at all with that thin offense. Not enough! You're like a spoiled kid. "The ice cream is too melty!! And it's the wrong flavor!" Yes, it hurts they couldn't close the deal, but "heads should roll"? Spit on players that fought their hearts out and gave us an incredibly exciting season? What's wrong with you? 

This post most perfectly and eloquently states what soooo many long time and knowledgeable Bills fans would want to say here If they had seen this post or even looked at message boards from time to time. Very well said and very observant of all the positive and encouraging signs and moments that came out of this game, that reinforce the upward trajectory this version of the Bills is on. So tired of the “who’s fault is it?” threads when that usually isn’t even a realistic concept in what is the ultimate team sport. ? nice job