Allen or Watson ( Who would you rather have leading your team Saturday)

[Brand J]

Well, if the two QBs were switched and all other variables remained the same, I would expect Watson to vastly outperform Allen, not only because his OL would be better, but mainly because his talents would be going against a much inferior defense. Does anyone truly believe Allen would be capable of Watson’s performance if he went against that Buffalo defense with a shabby Houston OL? A Houston Texans team QB by Josh Allen all season doesn’t make the playoffs IMO.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

He sure did....and U know what else he did...he got hut by 2 defenders....gathered himself and threw a nice pass to a former Bill, we wouldn't even put on the field....what did Josh do in that situation...He made a great run and at the end, instead of going down.... HE TRIED TO PITCH THE BALL TO SOMEBODY ELSE....like in time was left on the clock.....but like you said.....Its close.....OK buddy!!!?

That’s the most false analogy I’ve ever seen.

 

Seriously.

 

In a clutch overtime situation, when pressured, Allen legit made the same play: he hit Singletary on a ridiculous throw for a first down. Am I supposed to blame Allen for Taiwan Jones’ play? That’s really stupid.

 

But it’s clear to me that you are willing to dismiss anything that doesn’t support your point, so I’ll move on.

7 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

Even Tannehill had 53% completion. 

So it’s that 1% that matters? Pretty sure you don’t believe that 

13 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

52% completion in a playoff game isn’t gonna cut it. Not even close. Josh made so many mistakes running and throwing the ball. He single handedly is the reason they lost the game. 

Singlehandedly? It’s not John Brown for not dragging a foot, or Duke for dropping a TD, or Knox for whiffing on a block that almost certainly clears Allen into easy FG range, or Ford for taking a penalty that denies the team a FG try, or the defense for the 3rd and 18 debacle?

 

Just Allen. Got it.

 

Some if you people are delusional.

[Cal]

Allen

[leonbus23]

Those who picked Allen in this poll before the game took a gamble. They bet on Allen. All of the evidence suggested that Watson was a far better QB. Yet, some people chose Allen. This is a bit baffling, since Allen didn't even have that great of a season. He definitely improved from 2018, but his season was pretty average. I think everybody wanted Allen to have a great game against Houston, regardless of who they voted for in this poll. Allen has potential and we will see if he becomes as good as Watson next season. But Watson is a great QB and should have won this poll by a landslide. If Allen can become as good as Watson, we will be in the playoffs for years to come. Go Allen and Go Bills for 2020!

Edited January 5, 2020 by leonbus23

[Jaywrizzo]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

That’s the most false analogy I’ve ever seen.

 

Seriously.

 

In a clutch overtime situation, when pressured, Allen legit made the same play: he hit Singletary on a ridiculous throw for a first down. Am I supposed to blame Allen for Taiwan Jones’ play? That’s really stupid.

 

But it’s clear to me that you are willing to dismiss anything that doesn’t support your point, so I’ll move on.

So it’s that 1% that matters? Pretty sure you don’t believe that 

Singlehandedly? It’s not John Brown for not dragging a foot, or Duke for dropping a TD, or Knox for whiffing on a block that almost certainly clears Allen into easy FG range, or Ford for taking a penalty that denies the team a FG try, or the defense for the 3rd and 18 debacle?

 

Just Allen. Got it.

 

Some if you people are delusional.

Hahaha.....I'm done with U.....U don't have a clue what you're watching out there.

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Agreed.

 

 

Tell that to Tannehill, who went 8/15 for 72 yards in a win last night.

Tannehill did it on the road against the best pass defense in the league. Houston’s is one of the worst. Not exploiting Beasley vs a team that can’t cover slot guys was a huge miss by Allen.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Hahaha.....I'm done with U.....U don't have a clue what you're watching out there.

That you’d say so most certainly reinforces that I know what I’m seeing.

 

Thanks for the reassurance 

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Tannehill did it on the road against the best pass defense in the league. Houston’s is one of the worst. Not exploiting Beasley vs a team that can’t cover slot guys was a huge miss by Allen.

Oh he didn’t get it done, no question.

 

My point is that the stupidity of hard-and-fast statements line “XX completion percentage won’t get it done” is laughable. It’s always the same thing with Allen discussion: a fair number of people refuse to evaluate on the merits and simply must default to a narrative.

[Jaywrizzo]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

That you’d say so most certainly reinforces that I know what I’m seeing.

 

Thanks for the reassurance 

OK Buddy.....they're basically the same player.....you're right....keep watching....you're doing such a great job.

[thebandit27]

Just now, Jaywrizzo said:

OK Buddy.....they're basically the same player.....you're right....keep watching....you're doing such a great job.

You can’t read if that’s what you think I said.

 

My money is on you are upset about the loss and feel like arguing 

[Jaywrizzo]

20 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

You can’t read if that’s what you think I said.

 

My money is on you are upset about the loss and feel like arguing 

And you're dumb if U can't see Josh was playing against a low ranked D......I guess the other kid was playing against a bad D too....huh? Yeah...but its been nice talking to U.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

And you're dumb if U can't see Josh was playing against a low ranked D......I guess the other kid was playing against a bad D too....huh? Yeah...but its been nice talking to U.

Come back when you’re less emotional and we’ll have a more meaningful exchange.

[Big Turk]

On 1/1/2020 at 6:41 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Happy new year. I’m trying not to get in as many pointless debates this year.  Literally the only place where Watson won’t crush Allen in this poll is on a Bills board.  The guy who was a legend in college is off to a HOF start.  Maybe Allen will get there but there’s no comparison at this point.  Allen is a big play game manager on a win with defense, conservative team.  Watson has to carry a very flawed team every week.

 

so while Watson and Allen isn’t that close, the Bills might have the better team and that’s all that matters on Saturday. Cheers. 

 

Watson also has better weapons on offense on the balance. 

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Agreed.

 

 

Tell that to Tannehill, who went 8/15 for 72 yards in a win last night.

 

Tannehill is what he is. A run of 7 or 8 decent starts does not fool me. 

[billsfan1959]

55 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Tell that to Tannehill, who went 8/15 for 72 yards in a win last night.

 

Right. Also, in spite of some questionable decisions on Allen's part, in spite of some bad throws, in spite of some bad plays by his receivers (Williams in the end zone, Brown along the sideline, etc), in spite of some conservative play calling in some stretches, Allen still managed to make a lot of good plays (and some great plays) and put up 372 all purpose yards

Edited January 5, 2020 by billsfan1959

[thebandit27]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Tannehill is what he is. A run of 7 or 8 decent starts does not fool me. 

Agreed. My point was that a sweeping generalization that is a de facto fallback to the %age narrative is a sloppy characterization of Allen’s game yesterday. 
 

I don’t know why it can’t be both that Allen didn’t play well enough AND that the playmakers around him didn’t capitalize on their opportunities to bail him out by making routine plays.

[billsfan1959]

 

42 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Hahaha.....I'm done with U.....U don't have a clue what you're watching out there.

 

36 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

OK Buddy.....they're basically the same player.....you're right....keep watching....you're doing such a great job.

 

11 minutes ago, Jaywrizzo said:

And you're dumb if U can't see Josh was playing against a low ranked D......I guess the other kid was playing against a bad D too....huh? Yeah...but its been nice talking to U.

 

Why all the aggression? Seriously.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Agreed. My point was that a sweeping generalization that is a de facto fallback to the %age narrative is a sloppy characterization of Allen’s game yesterday. 
 

I don’t know why it can’t be both that Allen didn’t play well enough AND that the playmakers around him didn’t capitalize on their opportunities to bail him out by making routine plays.

 

And it is definitely both. If the playmakers made the plays that were there to be made when Josh was on point in the first half the game might well have been over and the chaotic offense and panicked Josh we saw later in the game might never have mattered. Nor would the fact that Watson was always gonna get hot at some stage. He is just too good not to.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, kbarrettb said:

52% completion in a playoff game isn’t gonna cut it. Not even close. Josh made so many mistakes running and throwing the ball. He single handedly is the reason they lost the game. 

Utter nonsense.

[thebandit27]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And it is definitely both. If the playmakers made the plays that were there to be made when Josh was on point in the first half the game might well have been over and the chaotic offense and panicked Josh we saw later in the game might never have mattered. Nor would the fact that Watson was always gonna get hot at some stage. He is just too good not to.

Exactly.

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Let’s see, both lead their teams to 19 regulation points. Both benefited from a turnover that resulted in a FG. Both made spectacular throws to RBs in overtime. Both made great plays with their legs in overtime that put the team in position to kick a GW FG (unfortunately Buffalo caught a penalty after a brutal missed block). Both threw for ~250 yards.

 

What was the biggest difference in the game? I’ll give you 2: timely penalties and plays made by WRs.

 

Oh, and I picked Watson just so you know. And yes, it’s a lot closer than people think.

Oh my god.

 

Both threw for 250 yards huh?

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oh my god.

 

Both threw for 250 yards huh?

Read the whole thread before you go noodles

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Oh my god.

 

Both threw for 250 yards huh?

 

Yup, we're supposed to just ignore that one guy needed to throw the ball 46 times to do it and the other needed 25 attempts. 

 

One had a QB rating over 120, and the other below 70. 

 

If Watson was our QB yesterday, we win by 30. He's so much better than Allen in every facet of the game. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do you think the result would have been different if the QBs just swapped teams?

Uh, yes? We probably win 30-0. Watson put the entire Texans team on his back. Josh wasn’t going to do that down 16 points.

11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Read the whole thread before you go noodles

I just did. That’s a tough stat to defend.

[TPS]

If my team played in a dome, I'd take Watson, but in Buffalo, I'll take Josh, even though he's still a bit raw.

[Reks Ryan]

Going into the 2017 draft the Bills and McD decided to rebuild.  The first pillar of that strategy was to find the best college QB to draft and build around.   The fact that they chose Allen over Watson, Mahomes, and Jackson is painful to watch this year.    And I expect it will only become more painful as the Chiefs, Texans, and Ravens take turns representing the AFC in the SB for the next 5 - 10 years.  

 

As for for the question of which QB you want leading your team, watching Allen panic and choke the game away, while Watson lead a brilliant comeback.  It couldn't be more apparent.  I guarantee if you posted the same question to the Texans fan base it would be almost unanimous. 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Yup, we're supposed to just ignore that one guy needed to throw the ball 46 times to do it and the other needed 25 attempts. 

 

One had a QB rating over 120, and the other below 70. 

 

If Watson was our QB yesterday, we win by 30. He's so much better than Allen in every facet of the game. 

One guy had a perennial all- pro WR to throw to. The other had scraps that can’t catch a perfectly thrown ball in the end zone. Watson is better, and his team won because he made one amazing play to not get sacked . The Bills don’t win by 30 if they have Watson; that’s just a gross exaggeration. 

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

One guy had a perennial all- pro WR to throw to. The other had scraps that can’t catch a perfectly thrown ball in the end zone. Watson is better, and his team won because he made one amazing play to not get sacked . The Bills don’t win by 30 if they have Watson; that’s just a gross exaggeration. 

 

Their All Pro was getting covered by our All Pro.

 

Our pass catchers were being covered by one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Texans are 29th in yards, 25th in QB rating, 28th in pass TDs, 21st in completion %. Their pass D is bad, and all Allen could do was complete 52% of his throws, for no passing TDs, a QB Rating of 69 and a yards per attempt of a dreadful 5.7 yards. 

 

Watson willed his team to victory.

 

Our guy imploded in the second half. 

 

Watson is so much better than Allen. No chance we'd have only scored 1 TD against the crappy Texans defense with him at QB. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Their All Pro was getting covered by our All Pro.

 

Our pass catchers were being covered by one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Texans are 29th in yards, 25th in QB rating, 28th in pass TDs, 21st in completion %. Their pass D is bad, and all Allen could do was complete 52% of his throws, for no passing TDs, a QB Rating of 69 and a yards per attempt of a dreadful 5.7 yards. 

 

Watson willed his team to victory.

 

Our guy imploded in the second half. 

 

Watson is so much better than Allen. No chance we'd have only scored 1 TD against the crappy Texans defense with him at QB. 

And what did Watson do in the first half ? Allen’s second half was disappointing for sure, but the coaches blew this game in a quarter and a half with a 16 point lead. Their all pro WR had 90 yards the second half as well, so he won that matchup. If either of two Bills defenders get Watson on the ground, the Bills may have pulled it out and you would be staying away from this board for at least a week or so. 

[oldmanfan]

Watson has two years of failure before winning his first game yesterday.  Allen will hopefully learn from this and be better in the playoffs next year.  Both have long futures in the league.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

And what did Watson do in the first half ? Allen’s second half was disappointing for sure, but the coaches blew this game in a quarter and a half with a 16 point lead. Their all pro WR had 90 yards the second half as well, so he won that matchup. If either of two Bills defenders get Watson on the ground, the Bills may have pulled it out and you would be staying away from this board for at least a week or so. 

Oh no no no no you don’t. You don’t get to hand wave half of Josh’s crap games all 2019 because he delivered at the end and pulled out the win, and THEN say what did Watson do in the first Q.

 

No no no.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Uh, yes? We probably win 30-0. Watson put the entire Texans team on his back. Josh wasn’t going to do that down 16 points.

 

Watson threw to himself and ran it all himself.  Not.  There's a reason why DeAndre Hopkins is All World and when I see him, I Covet.

 

I don't want to take away from Watson, who played great, but it helped him a lot that he was throwing to DeAndre Hopkins and that they were able to generate consistent rush yards with Hyde and Johnson. 

 

Like I said, this loss is a real Rorschach test for people's inner biases.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

And what did Watson do in the first half ? Allen’s second half was disappointing for sure, but the coaches blew this game in a quarter and a half with a 16 point lead. Their all pro WR had 90 yards the second half as well, so he won that matchup. If either of two Bills defenders get Watson on the ground, the Bills may have pulled it out and you would be staying away from this board for at least a week or so. 

 

Watson did nothing because our defense was playing out of their minds. They pitched a shut out against one of the top 4 QBs in the NFL for 40 minutes while all our offense could do was kick field goals. 

 

We have the 2nd best defense in the NFL. They've carried this team all year, compensating for their horrible offense that struggled all year to score points. 

 

Week after week, Bills fans have to tear down the coaches and other 52 guys on the roster to justify why Allen isn't the problem. It's always coaching, the line, the defense not holding the other team to 10 points, whatever. For whatever reason, some people seem happy to ignore that our QB fumbles the ball at a clip not seen from any other NFL QBs, he tries to throw interceptions that miraculously bounce off the hands of defenders, and he throws passes to fullbacks down the field who are in double coverage. Somehow all of that gets ignored. 

 

With better QB play, like the calibre of play the Texans got from Watson, the Bills blow out the Texans in an absolute laugher. 

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Watson threw to himself and ran it all himself.  Not.  There's a reason why DeAndre Hopkins is All World and when I see him, I Covet.

 

I don't want to take away from Watson, who played great, but it helped him a lot that he was throwing to DeAndre Hopkins and that they were able to generate consistent rush yards with Hyde and Johnson. 

 

Like I said, this loss is a real Rorschach test for people's inner biases.

Your last line is INCREDIBLY ironic. 

 

We had a better rushing average last night than the Texans.

 

Your takeaway from last night is that Hopkins was the difference between Josh and Deshaun’s performance. I don’t think anything more has to be said except we might have watched different games.

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Watson did nothing because our defense was playing out of their minds. They pitched a shut out against one of the top 4 QBs in the NFL for 40 minutes while all our offense could do was kick field goals. 

 

We have the 2nd best defense in the NFL. They've carried this team all year, compensating for their horrible offense that struggled all year to score points. 

 

Week after week, Bills fans have to tear down the coaches and other 52 guys on the roster to justify why Allen isn't the problem. It's always coaching, the line, the defense not holding the other team to 10 points, whatever. For whatever reason, some people seem happy to ignore that our QB fumbles the ball at a clip not seen from any other NFL QBs, he tries to throw interceptions that miraculously bounce off the hands of defenders, and he throws passes to fullbacks down the field who are in double coverage. Somehow all of that gets ignored. 

 

With better QB play, like the calibre of play the Texans got from Watson, the Bills blow out the Texans in an absolute laugher. 

Josh Allen didn’t allow 19 points by HOU in a quarter and a half of football. The reality is that in a 3 point OT loss, any number of plays not made by many Bills would likely have propelled the team to victory. Allen must shoulder some blame, but so do many defenders, WRs and coaches that failed in many areas. It must’ve been hard for you watching the Bills amass a 16 point lead with a player you despise so much at QB. It’s probably vindicating to watch a team fail in many areas so you can blame that player and pound your chest postgame on a message board. Doesn’t sound like an entertaining way to follow a team, though. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Josh Allen didn’t allow 19 points by HOU in a quarter and a half of football. The reality is that in a 3 point OT loss, any number of plays not made by many Bills would likely have propelled the team to victory. Allen must shoulder some blame, but so do many defenders, WRs and coaches that failed in many areas. It must’ve been hard for you watching the Bills amass a 16 point lead with a player you despise so much at QB. It’s probably vindicating to watch a team fail in many areas so you can blame that player and pound your chest postgame on a message board. Doesn’t sound like an entertaining way to follow a team, though. 

 

I was having a great time yesterday, up until Allen's fumble when the game went off the rails and a loss seemed inevitable. 

 

Allen did his best, but ultimately he failed. He had multiple opportunities throughout the second half and overtime to seal a win and was unable to do so against one of the league's worst defenses. 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Watson has two years of failure before winning his first game yesterday.  Allen will hopefully learn from this and be better in the playoffs next year.  Both have long futures in the league.

 

No he doesn't. That was his 2nd playoff game. He had only lost one before that. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No he doesn't. That was his 2nd playoff game. He had only lost one before that. 

My bad.  I though they went the last two years.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I was having a great time yesterday, up until Allen's fumble when the game went off the rails and a loss seemed inevitable. 

 

Allen did his best, but ultimately he failed. He had multiple opportunities throughout the second half and overtime to seal a win and was unable to do so against one of the league's worst defenses. 

Ultimately that’s true. It’s also true, however, that there were several times he made plays that were either called back by penalty, dropped, or were a whiffed block away from setting up the GW FG (looking at you, Knox).

 

Team effort all around.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I was having a great time yesterday, up until Allen's fumble when the game went off the rails and a loss seemed inevitable. 

 

Allen did his best, but ultimately he failed. He had multiple opportunities throughout the second half and overtime to seal a win and was unable to do so against one of the league's worst defenses. 

I don’t think Allen did his best in any way, and that’s what’s disappointing about his game yesterday. Even though he has next to no weapons and a suspect offensive coordinator I expect to see better. They need to make improvements to the offensive personnel( a RT, a FA and drafted WR, perhaps a TE and a new 2nd RB)  and consider a change at OC with the playcalling duties. Allen’s best was most likely what he did vs DAL. He’s capable of that, and it’s what I expect most weeks. He didn’t deliver in that regard, but many failures around him contributed to the loss. Watson didn’t win his first playoff game either, so all isn’t lost. 

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Ultimately that’s true. It’s also true, however, that there were several times he made plays that were either called back by penalty, dropped, or were a whiffed block away from setting up the GW FG (looking at you, Knox).

 

Team effort all around.

That’s just lost on some fans, who must blame the QB in a loss and credit everyone around him in victory. Just a weird way to watch football, with so much ire directed at one player. 

[Billl]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do you think the result would have been different if the QBs just swapped teams?

Buffalo wins in a blowout if you swapped QBs.