Yannick Ngakoue - Peace Out Jax

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Bills Mafia, do your job. Get him to Buffalo.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

surprised no visit from @MAJBobby to this thread

 

[Reed83HOF]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills Mafia, do your job. Get him to Buffalo.

Tons of bills fans comments on his post

[sven233]

We have an "out" with both Murphy and Star's contract this off season from what I remember.  We can even get out of Kroft's deal if we want to.  Combining that money and the $90+ million we already have in cap space, a big signing like this is more than doable.....  In fact, this is the exact type of signing the Bills need.

[mjt328]

Our priority in the offseason should be re-signing Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson.

After that, I agree that going after a top Free Agent edge rusher would be ideal.

 

 

For everyone worried about salary cap space:

1.  Trent Murphy can be released a year before his contract expires, with a dead cap of only $1.7 million.  This would save us over $7 million.

2.  Jerry Hughes can be released in 2021 (at 33 years old), with a dead cap of just over $2 million.  This would save us about the same as Murphy, giving us another $7.3 million in cap space.

 

So to summarize, by releasing Murphy this offseason and Hughes next year, we can probably cover a Lawson extension for two full seasons with little to no effect on the salary cap.

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, sven233 said:

We have an "out" with both Murphy and Star's contract this off season from what I remember.  We can even get out of Kroft's deal if we want to.  Combining that money and the $90+ million we already have in cap space, a big signing like this is more than doable.....  In fact, this is the exact type of signing the Bills need.

Star is a $7.8 cap hit, Murphy is $1.75 & Kroft is $1.6

 

Star isn't going this year

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

Star is a $7.8 cap hit, Murphy is $1.75 & Kroft is $1.6

 

Star isn't going this year

 

We still save something like $2.5M by cutting Star. Not a lot of money, but it's not a Hughes situation where it costs more to cut than to keep him. Might be smart to eat that hit now (2020) and free up the room for later on.

 

My ideal plan would be:

 

DE: Hughes - Draft Pick

1Tech DT: Harry - Vince Taylor

3Tech DT: JPhillips - Oliver

DE: Yannick - Shaq

 

When Hughes is cut after next year, Yannick fills his spot. And when JPhillips contract ends, Oliver will be ready to get paid and we shift that money that way. Keep cycling these guys without creating any desperate holes. (Although I usually have decent success with desperate holes, but that's a different story)

[MAJBobby]

21 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

surprised no visit from @MAJBobby to this thread

 

I am fine with Yannick. However I also think Matt Judon will be a better fit and can play Base End that is something t that I don’t think Yannick can do. IMO he only can play Hughes Position. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We still save something like $2.5M by cutting Star.

Star is $5.2 in 2021 and $2.6 in 2022.

 

To save the $2.5 this year and have to pay for another player to replace him would cost more than the $2.5, so I might be willing to wait until next offseason. I can't see keeping him until 2022 when it is minimal.

We can also create cap room by converting salary to bonus ala the Falcons and others. I'm not concerned about the cap at all...

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

My ideal plan would be:

 

DE: Hughes - Draft Pick

1Tech DT: Harry - Vince Taylor

3Tech DT: JPhillips - Oliver

DE: Yannick - Shaq

 

When Hughes is cut after next year, Yannick fills his spot. And when JPhillips contract ends, Oliver will be ready to get paid and we shift that money that way. Keep cycling these guys without creating any desperate holes. (Although I usually have decent success with desperate holes, but that's a different story)

 

I really wanted Shag Barrett, but he is gonna get tagged by TB, so Yannick it is!

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Star is $5.2 in 2021 and $2.6 in 2022.

 

To save the $2.5 this year and have to pay for another player to replace him would cost more than the $2.5, so I might be willing to wait until next offseason. I can't see keeping him until 2022 when it is minimal.

We can also create cap room by converting salary to bonus ala the Falcons and others. I'm not concerned about the cap at all...

 

I really wanted Shag Barrett, but he is gonna get tagged by TB, so Yannick it is!

 

 

 

WRT the bold, Harry is coming back from IR and we have Vince Taylor on the roster set to make $750k next year. Anyone else signed would be for depth and would make that or less. So no need to spend to replace Star. And we could shift that $2.5M to pad our offer to Jordan Phillips.

 

But either way, I agree, Im not worried about the cap at all. Heck, we could do everything I asked for and KEEP Star. But if we had to cut Star to make room for Phillips, I'm helping Star pack his bags.

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

WRT the bold, Harry is coming back from IR and we have Vince Taylor on the roster set to make $750k next year. Anyone else signed would be for depth and would make that or less. So no need to spend to replace Star. And we could shift that $2.5M to pad our offer to Jordan Phillips.

 

But either way, I agree, Im not worried about the cap at all. Heck, we could do everything I asked for and KEEP Star. But if we had to cut Star to make room for Phillips, I'm helping Star pack his bags.

Good points!

 

I can see both Star sticking and I would not be surprised if he is cut; I'm just not sure we would eat $7.5 on a cut. Either thing happening won't be a surprise at all lol

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

Good points!

 

I can see both Star sticking and I would not be surprised if he is cut; I'm just not sure we would eat $7.5 on a cut. Either thing happening won't be a surprise at all lol

 

In the Magic Beane we trust!

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

In the Magic Beane we trust!

I love the offseason and I am stoked to see what we do!

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'd sign both Shaq and Yannick.

 

Hughes is here next year since he costs more to cut than to keep, but is gone after that. Signing both Shaq and Yannick gives us some security at the position long-term, where Yannick can move into Hughes' spot, and we arent in a desperate situation to find/sign/draft a DE in 2021. Would still need to pad out the rotation, but at least we arent left with a major hole along the Line.

 

 

 

I want the Bills to keep Shaq and sign Yannick. However if Shaq gets a bit too pricy you have to let him walk. I think you are OK with paying retail to keep Shaq but you shouldn't be gouged. As good of a player as Shaq is, he only had 6.5 sacks this year and wasn't doing much the three previous seasons. 10 million aav for him is steep but I might be wiling to pay it if the guarantee is low and easy to get out of after 2 seasons. 10 million aav puts him as the 16th highest paid aav (although more around 20 by the time new contracts get handed out.) That is already a considerable overpay. Ideally I think he sits in the 8ish million range but the market can get crazy sometimes. So I wouldn't go anywhere over 10 million aav and even then only if it is a limited guarantee. 

 

I think that if you do keep Shaq and Phillips at a total of 20 million aav combined and you sign Yannick to a 15 million aav deal while cutting Murphy your D-line spending as a unit in 2020 balloons to over 60 million (Star and Hughes 20 million, Shaq and Phillips 20 million, Yannick 15 million, Ed 4.5 million, Phillips and Johnson both under 1 million.) 

 

That's a lot to spend on 8 players but you quickly can get out of Star and Hughes after 2020 so that number can come down and Murphy's 1.5 million in dead cap comes off so that helps. Once again this team I think can balance adding 2-3 starting pieces via free agency, while retaining our key players and keeping enough roll over to handle future extensions. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by billsfan89

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I want the Bills to keep Shaq and sign Yannick. However if Shaq gets a bit too pricy you have to let him walk. I think you are OK with paying retail to keep Shaq but you shouldn't be gouged. As good of a player as Shaq is, he only had 6.5 sacks this year and wasn't doing much the three previous seasons. 10 million aav for him is steep but I might be wiling to pay it if the guarantee is low and easy to get out of after 2 seasons. 10 million aav puts him as the 16th highest paid aav (although more around 20 by the time new contracts get handed out.) That is already a considerable overpay. Ideally I think he sits in the 8ish million range but the market can get crazy sometimes. So I wouldn't go anywhere over 10 million aav and even then only if it is a limited guarantee. 

 

I think that if you do keep Shaq and Phillips at a total of 20 million aav combined and you sign Yannick to a 15 million aav deal while cutting Murphy your D-line spending as a unit in 2020 balloons to over 60 million (Star and Hughes 20 million, Shaq and Phillips 20 million, Yannick 15 million, Ed 4.5 million, Phillips and Johnson both under 1 million.) 

 

That's a lot to spend on 8 players but you quickly can get out of Star and Hughes after 2020 so that number can come down and Murphy's 1.5 million in dead cap comes off so that helps. Once again this team I think can balance adding 2-3 starting pieces via free agency, while retaining our key players and keeping enough roll over to handle future extensions. 

Great breakdown 89....the most important issue is signing Ngakoue to replace Murphy. Never been a Murphy fan. Reminds me too much of Kelsay. And even Kelsay was better in run support. 3 sacks going into the last game is weak. Obviously I'd sign Jordan next, then Shaq. Keeping those 2 contracts to a reasonable number is critical. Like Hughes, we may be stuck with Star for 1 more year. We need to hit a HR (Max Crosby type) on a mid round DE.

[stinky finger]

6 hours ago, elijah said:

For a GM that preaches staying in house, Ngakuoe might just cost too much to make this happen. 

 

Dawkins, Poyer, Milano, Tre White, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds are just a few names coming up in the next 2 years.

 

Did Beane start this thread?

[Rc2catch]

4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Good points!

 

I can see both Star sticking and I would not be surprised if he is cut; I'm just not sure we would eat $7.5 on a cut. Either thing happening won't be a surprise at all lol

We can say a lot about Star, but the guy is durable. Might be worth the price just to know there’s a healthy guy around who knows the defense and can play when needed (at what level has been debated to the end of the earth and back) 

Id hate to change too much or have too much turnover. What’s the worst case? Harrison Phillips is back at full strength and maybe Star is inactive? 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Rc2catch

[CommonCents]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I am fine with Yannick. However I also think Matt Judon will be a better fit and can play Base End that is something t that I don’t think Yannick can do. IMO he only can play Hughes Position. 

What’s Judon’s story? He is a bit of a knucklehead right? 

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

We can say a lot about Star, but the guy is durable. Might be worth the price just to know there’s a healthy guy around who knows the defense and can play when needed (at what level has been debated to the end of the earth and back) 

Id hate to change too much or have too much turnover. What’s the worst case? Harrison Phillips is back at full strength and maybe Star is inactive? 

Which you can deal with for a year and not have it affect your signing or resigning anyone. I can see both happening, but I lean towards more keeping him for another season

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Which you can deal with for a year and not have it affect your signing or resigning anyone. I can see both happening, but I lean towards more keeping him for another season

Yeah it’s like cutting just for the sake of cutting. No real advantage gained from it. 
The following offseason though the savings could actually make a nice impact. I felt the same for Hughes. 

[MAJBobby]

10 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

What’s Judon’s story? He is a bit of a knucklehead right? 

he is a hell of a player. 

[CommonCents]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

he is a hell of a player. 

Yeah, I know that. He is a punk though right? I like him as a player, would he fit is my question.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

Yeah, I know that. He is a punk though right? I like him as a player, would he fit is my question.

shall I name the former punks on this Roster?

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

shall I name the former punks on this Roster?

I’d be fine with the signing, I just can’t remember why I hated him. Maybe he punked the Bills one game. I remember him doing something out of line but I can’t find anything in my searches. 

[noacls]

No thanks. Give me AJ Espensa.

[Chicharito]

Win a playoff game and we are not overpaying for anyone. Winning changes everything. This will become a destination everyone wants to come play in. No more Over paying!

[Rc2catch]

12 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

Win a playoff game and we are not overpaying for anyone. Winning changes everything. This will become a destination everyone wants to come play in. No more Over paying!

Everyone over pays in free agency. 
But I think we can put the “nobody wants to play if buffalo” saying to rest finally. 
We have a team that players will want to play for now 

[LSHMEAB]

9 hours ago, elijah said:

For a GM that preaches staying in house, Ngakuoe might just cost too much to make this happen. 

 

Dawkins, Poyer, Milano, Tre White, Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds are just a few names coming up in the next 2 years.

Meh. The cap will only be an issue if Josh Allen emerges as THE MAN, so that'd be a great problem to have...a few years down the road. 

 

Yannnick is the disruptive force missing from this defense. You sign Yannick and you can get rid of both Murphy and Shaq. You've got Johnson who seems to be improving, and you can sign a few guys off the scrap heap if your starters are Yannick/Hughes. 

 

Keeping your own does not mean you sit pat in free agency and never pursue a big time player. Beane was interested in AB/Frank Clark/Clowney. Didn't come to fruition, but building through the draft does not preclude you from making an occasional big move.

[Hebert19]

I trust beane.  End of story.  If he thinks we can pay big bucks for someone he would have a plan to make the cap space long term.  

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I could see the Bills easily letting Poyer walk. 

 

Tre White is locked in for at least two more years.

 

Josh Allen? Really? Can we wait until he proves himself a little more before worrying about a contract extension? 

 

 

Baring major injury, it is 100% certain Allen will be extended. 

[LSHMEAB]

5 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 I'm not concerned about the cap at all...

 

 

 

 

This. The Bills created a ton of room by ridding themselves of players they didn't view as good fits, but I'm quite sure the plan is not to win the cap space war every offseason.

[Rc2catch]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

 

Yannnick is the disruptive force missing from this defense. You sign Yannick and you can get rid of both Murphy and Shaq. You've got Johnson who seems to be improving, and you can sign a few guys off the scrap heap if your starters are Yannick/Hughes. 

 

Keeping your own does not mean you sit pat in free agency and never pursue a big time player. Beane was interested in AB/Frank Clark/Clowney. Didn't come to fruition, but building through the draft does not preclude you from making an occasional big move.

What exactly has yannick done to be considered the disruptive force this team is missing or a big time player? Same for Clowney who has been quite ugly and disappears in Seattle. 
This yannick guy is not a bad player by any means but he’s not an elite pass rusher. I don’t see the upgrade he provides over shaq and his snap count will not be as high here with the rotations on the line meaning his numbers are probably going down some. 
Im not advocating for not signing him or even signing him I just don’t see what the fuss is about. His numbers aren’t that great. 

[CommonCents]

10 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

What exactly has yannick done to be considered the disruptive force this team is missing or a big time player? Same for Clowney who has been quite ugly and disappears in Seattle. 
This yannick guy is not a bad player by any means but he’s not an elite pass rusher. I don’t see the upgrade he provides over shaq and his snap count will not be as high here with the rotations on the line meaning his numbers are probably going down some. 
Im not advocating for not signing him or even signing him I just don’t see what the fuss is about. His numbers aren’t that great. 

He is better than Shaq, much better bend. If the Bills got him and Calais I’d be excited. Just adding a Yannick isn’t going to change things much. Hughes is only getting slower. 

[Rc2catch]

3 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

He is better than Shaq, much better bend. If the Bills got him and Calais I’d be excited. Just adding a Yannick isn’t going to change things much. Hughes is only getting slower. 

Better than shaq or just faster? I’m being honest I have not watched the jags since their playoff push years ago. But I did go stat browsing and this guys numbers just don’t seem impressive. Sacks against bad teams.

Not a lot of QB hits. Is he getting pressures that don’t show up on his stat sheets? 
Cause his numbers look on the decline the last couple years. What’s his guarantee gonna look like? 70 million? Is he popular on here cause he’s considered the top guy available so we have to have him like when clowney was up for trade? 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[LABILLBACKER]

I still want either him or Armstead as our Murphy replacement. Ngakoue's disruptions went down from 90 to 31 this year. Armstead would be better in run support. But we can't go wrong with either. 

21 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Better than shaq or just faster? I’m being honest I have not watched the jags since their playoff push years ago. But I did go stat browsing and this guys numbers just don’t seem impressive. Sacks against bad teams.

Not a lot of QB hits. Is he getting pressures that don’t show up on his stat sheets? 
Cause his numbers look on the decline the last couple years. What’s his guarantee gonna look like? 70 million? Is he popular on here cause he’s considered the top guy available so we have to have him like when clowney was up for trade? 

Reading that his defensive disruptions fell dramatically from 90 to 31 is a little alarming. I'm not paying him 70M. The more research I do on Ngakoue,  the more appealing & affordable Armstead becomes.