CincyBillsFan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 16 hours ago, Mango said: For years we have been talking about whether or not the 300 yard game is important and if it means anything. I tried to weed out the busts and quick flame outs, so I put some caps on players in terms of NFL commitment via starts and/or longevity. Data compiled from NFL.com and Pro-Football-Reference So I compiled every draft from 1998 of QB's.I left the google doc public and editable if anybody wanted to play with it or add information. Minimums for the sake of editing out guys who didn't either have longevity in the league or weren't given long term starting opportunities: - 32 Starts or - 6 years on an NFL Roster - For drafts from 2014 +, must still be on an NFL roster - QB's Drafted in 2017, 2018, 2019, must have started at least 1 game Raw Findings: - For QB's who have thrown a 300 yard game, their average time in the league was 2.29 years (rookie year is counted as 1) - QB's who have met the criteria, averages a 300 yard game at their 8.9th start - Every QB who has met the 6 year or 32 start criteria and has started a playoff game, has thrown for 300 yards in a game. - Every QB with a playoff start has averages a 300 yard game within their first 2.28 years and 9.97 games started - QB's with multiple playoff starts average their first 300 yard game 2.13 years into their career (early second year) and/or 9 games started into their careers. - QB's with multiple playoff starts, and a 300 yard game averaged a 10.97 year career. - Rookies, 2nd year QB's, and Career Backups excluded, Franchise QB's average their first 300 yard game 1.66 years into their career or about their 7th start (This is admittedly subjective. Because of longevity, it is tough to quantify) - Matt Hasselback, Mike Vick, Joe Flacco, and Rusell Wilson, are the only QB's I have listed as Franchise, who took similar, or more starts to complete a 300 yard passing game. ***All in all, it does not look like a predictive stat in that completing it early in your career projects longevity. But the later a QB (games started) reaches a 300 yard game, the worse it is.*** https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UMnKmGwq27h0GfFtnqI77KgDVQadOTg1rxS9TbNHoPg/edit?usp=sharing Mods- Because this is a large data set, and league wide, I created a new thread. Good stuff. I wonder though how much Allen is impacted by a very conservative coaching style? Take his 2nd start against the Vikings last year. He had almost 200 yards passing early in the 2nd period with the Bills up 24 - 0. Then he threw a prefect deep pass that would have gone for at least 60 yards had Foster not dropped it. From that point on the Bills stopped throwing downfield. I get why they did this - rookie QB and unexpectedly up 27 - 0 on the road against a good team. But I suspect that MOST teams would have kept the pressure on until early in the 4th. Had the Bills been more aggressive in the 2nd half I suspect Allen would have had his first 300 yard game in the bag already. And we saw a similar thing this season against the Giants where Allen's 1st half performance seemed to indicate he was on his way to 300 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said: or that they are playing from behind a lot and compiling yardage during garbage time. Really hard to reach a conclusion without all of the circumstantial data surrounding the performance. Buffalo was playing against the Eagles in garbage time. Allen threw 10 incomplete passes in a row. Its not circumstantial...if your Qb cant put up that number or more, you don't have a chance to win...thats the point. Franchise guys do it early in their career and do it often as their career progresses. Im completely dumbfounded by the fact people are not concerned that half way through our "franchise" Qbs second year, he has yet to throw a 300 yard game, especially when we are behind. He runs when facing a blitz instead of beating it with his arm. Im not going to call him a bust, yet, but his lack of big plays and passing ability thus far is troubling. If Allen doesn't show some big improvement moving into the second half of his second year, there is going to be serious questions about legitimacy as a franchise guy. Edited October 31, 2019 by TwistofFate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I.E., if Allen had it in him to do it, he would have done it by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Buffalo was playing against the Eagles in garbage time. Allen threw 10 incomplete passes in a row. Its not circumstantial...if your Qb cant put up that number or more, you don't have a chance to win...thats the point. Franchise guys do it early in their career and do it often as their career progresses. Im completely dumbfounded by the fact people are not concerned that half way through our "franchise" Qbs career he has yet to throw a 300 yard game, especially when we are behind. He runs when facing a blitz instead of beating it with his arm. Im not going to call him a bust, yet, but his lack of big plays and passing ability thus far is troubling. If Allen doesn't show some big improvement moving into the second half of his second year, there is going to be serious questions about legitimacy as a franchise guy. I can’t believe we have a poster that admitted yesterday he’d rather see his team lose as long as the QB throws for 300 yards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Buffalo was playing against the Eagles in garbage time. Allen threw 10 incomplete passes in a row. Its not circumstantial...if your Qb cant put up that number or more, you don't have a chance to win...thats the point. Franchise guys do it early in their career and do it often as their career progresses. Im completely dumbfounded by the fact people are not concerned that half way through our "franchise" Qbs career he has yet to throw a 300 yard game, especially when we are behind. He runs when facing a blitz instead of beating it with his arm. Im not going to call him a bust, yet, but his lack of big plays and passing ability thus far is troubling. If Allen doesn't show some big improvement moving into the second half of his second year, there is going to be serious questions about legitimacy as a franchise guy. Excellent post. Very few posters at this forum are willing to exercise your level of objectivity in analyzing Josh Allen's game. Unfortunately, he has enough going for him and does enough things right or well that I'm afraid it's going to take time for the powers that be to determine "he doesn't have it." How long did it take for the Bengals to finally give up with Dalton? The Dolphins sunk 7 seasons into Project Tannehill while Bills fans (and plenty of others around the league) laughed and enjoyed the easy wins when they presented themselves. Even they have finally figured out that was a mistake. I truly hope Pegula puts pressure on things to draw definitive conclusions about Allen after THIS season. It's been long enough. Edited October 31, 2019 by Nextmanup 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, oldmanfan said: I can’t believe we have a poster that admitted yesterday he’d rather see his team lose as long as the QB throws for 300 yards. I cant believe you continue to take my post out of context. Id rather see a loss with growth, than a win based in mediocrity. Everyone wants to win, but if there's no growth and you're relying week in and week out on the defense shutting down opponents, get ready to be an average team forever. If you can't understand that, I don't know what more to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 10 incompletions out of context is worthless. If he is down by 18 points and throwing screen passes for completions, or dumps offs, or 6 yards to the TE over the middle, or other equally worthless passes he is going to be completing a lot more passes but even less of a chance to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, TwistofFate said: I cant believe you continue to take my post out of context. Id rather see a loss with growth, than a win based in mediocrity. Everyone wants to win, but if there's no growth and you're relying week in and week out on the defense shutting down opponents, get ready to be an average team forever. If you can't understand that, I don't know what more to say. I agree with what you say about the offense not growing. You have to realize that the majority of the posters on this board are old school when defenses dominated and 17-14 scores where the norm. Now you need to usually score close to 21 points or more to win. It is why I keep saying to let Allen loose and stop making him a pocket passer. Let him run around and make plays. He will never be that QB with high completion percentage. He is best when he runs around making plays. His too best games last season that is how he played. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I.E., if Allen had it in him to do it, he would have done it by now. Had what, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: 10 incompletions out of context is worthless. If he is down by 18 points and throwing screen passes for completions, or dumps offs, or 6 yards to the TE over the middle, or other equally worthless passes he is going to be completing a lot more passes but even less of a chance to win. Not really. The ball is moving down field, right? The sticks continue to move, right? Hitting guys in stride on slants, screens, and seams lead to big gains. Tom Brady has made a career out of it. Then the defense sits on a route, your Wr pops a double move and you hit a huge pass. You might be cool with 10 incompletions in a row, but personally, for me, its pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: I cant believe you continue to take my post out of context. Id rather see a loss with growth, than a win based in mediocrity. Everyone wants to win, but if there's no growth and you're relying week in and week out on the defense shutting down opponents, get ready to be an average team forever. If you can't understand that, I don't know what more to say. They measure success in the NFL by wins, not 300 yard games. You’d rather have a loss. You said it, own it. Allen is like most young QBs. He’s learning. I started a thread this week that they should let Josh be Josh, let him play the way he plays fourth quarters where he’s been more successful. There is no reason you can’t win and develop the QB. And one other thing. If a QB throws for 250 say, and runs for 50, does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Had what, exactly? The ability to take over games with his arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said: That is why I think they should just him loose like he played last season against the Vikings. Trying to make him a pocket passer is not helping him at all. Since this is still a building year and they do play a bad team in Washington next, let him loose. He may not have it but making him a game manager is not helping him. I don't see that happening cause their coach believes in complimentary football which goes against what Allen is good at. He is best when playing hero ball. It's easy to think about that game as a coming out, but he didn't even reach 200yds passing and had 235 total. He also fumbled 3 times, but luckily none were lost or it might have been a different story. We really hit them at the right time when they were getting blown out. I think the shock of beating the Vikings has really made most of us look at that game differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They measure success in the NFL by wins, not 300 yard games. You’d rather have a loss. You said it, own it. Allen is like most young QBs. He’s learning. I started a thread this week that they should let Josh be Josh, let him play the way he plays fourth quarters where he’s been more successful. There is no reason you can’t win and develop the QB. And one other thing. If a QB throws for 250 say, and runs for 50, does that count? ? I just clarified for you in writing that I'd rather see a loss with growth than a win based in average play. What exactly more do I have to own? If we continue to win against sub par opponents with sub par play, we arent going anywhere. If we lose a couple games against top tier teams but Allen steps up his game and throws for 350 and 3tds, Im fine with it. If he's showing growth in that loss, Id rather see that then winning against a team thats winless by way of ONE good drive in the 4th quarter....period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: The ability to take over games with his arm. And to be clear: your concept of the ability to 'take over games with his arm' is evidenced by passing for 300 or more yards within a given period of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, TwistofFate said: ? I just clarified for you in writing that I'd rather see a loss with growth than a win based in average play. What exactly more do I have to own? If we continue to win against sub par opponents with sub par play, we arent going anywhere. If we lose a couple games against top tier teams but Allen steps up his game and throws for 350 and 3tds, Im fine with it. If he's showing growth in that loss, Id rather see that then winning against a team thats winless by way of ONE good drive in the 4th quarter....period. So let’s say those two losses knock them out of the playoffs. You’d be fine with that. You’ve shown your true colors. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: So let’s say those two losses knock them out of the playoffs. You’d be fine with that. You’ve shown your true colors. Congrats. If you have a quarterback they can't throw for 300 yards you aren't going anywhere in the playoffs. I want Super Bowl wins and that's not going to happen with a quarterback that cant throw for 300 yards. You have shown your true colors, a person that doesn't understand today's modern NFL and the importance of a dominant Qb. Your screen name says it all. Congrats on living in the 80s. 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Whats the strength of schedule? Hes put up them stats against the worst statistical defenses in the NFL....and still couldn't post a 300 yard game. Edited October 31, 2019 by TwistofFate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Whats the strength of schedule? I appreciate that you have a strong concept of nuance and how there exist factors that can influence statistics which must be considered in determining causality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 57 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Buffalo was playing against the Eagles in garbage time. Allen threw 10 incomplete passes in a row. Its not circumstantial...if your Qb cant put up that number or more, you don't have a chance to win...thats the point. Franchise guys do it early in their career and do it often as their career progresses. Im completely dumbfounded by the fact people are not concerned that half way through our "franchise" Qbs second year, he has yet to throw a 300 yard game, especially when we are behind. He runs when facing a blitz instead of beating it with his arm. Im not going to call him a bust, yet, but his lack of big plays and passing ability thus far is troubling. If Allen doesn't show some big improvement moving into the second half of his second year, there is going to be serious questions about legitimacy as a franchise guy. I wasn't referencing Josh Allen specifically, or any particular game. I meant that in general a 300 yard game by itself does not mean a QB has the ability to "take over a game". There are always anomalies. Now whether the inability to throw for 300 yards is indicative of something, that is a different conversation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I wasn't referencing Josh Allen specifically, or any particular game. I meant that in general a 300 yard game by itself does not mean a QB has the ability to "take over a game". There are always anomalies. Now whether the inability to throw for 300 yards is indicative of something, that is a different conversation. I understand that, but I was using Allens garbage time as an example. What does it say? Its says that there's no chance at victory when down if you cant put up big numbers at the Qb position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: If you have a quarterback they can't throw for 300 yards you aren't going anywhere in the playoffs. I want Super Bowl wins and that's not going to happen with a quarterback that cant throw for 300 yards. You have shown your true colors, a person that doesn't understand today's modern NFL and the importance of a dominant Qb. Your screen name says it all. Congrats on living in the 80s. Whats the strength of schedule? Hes put up them stats against the worst statistical defenses in the NFL....and still couldn't post a 300 yard game. What was the score of last year’s Super Bowl? What you youngsters don’t get is that defense wins championships. Oh wait, you know what? I’m wrong. Because you said that very thing yesterday. You said offense wins games but defense wins championships. You are so interested in slamming Allen you can’t even remember what you post. Allen will throw for 300 at some point. Then you’ll have to find some new quasi-stat to go after. Going into this season it was completion percentage. Now it’s 300 yards. I will say again: let Allen be Allen. Figure out a way for the fourth quarter Allen to be that the whole game. Do that everything will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: What was the score of last year’s Super Bowl? What you youngsters don’t get is that defense wins championships. Oh wait, you know what? I’m wrong. Because you said that very thing yesterday. You said offense wins games but defense wins championships. You are so interested in slamming Allen you can’t even remember what you post. Allen will throw for 300 at some point. Then you’ll have to find some new quasi-stat to go after. Going into this season it was completion percentage. Now it’s 300 yards. I will say again: let Allen be Allen. Figure out a way for the fourth quarter Allen to be that the whole game. Do that everything will be fine. I remember clearly what I wrote. You conviently left out the first part of the quote... OFFENSE wins games...You aren't getting to a championship without winning games offensively. I could care less about what the score of last years Super Bowl is, its irrelevant. Both of those teams got there with high level Qb play....period, end of story. At the next level you need to bring a defense, but you aren't getting to the next level without an OFFENSE. Ill be one of the first to congratulate Allen on 300+, im not rooting against him, I simply don't believe in him...big difference. Make me a believer... because with each passing week, each fumble, each interception, and each mediocre performance, I drift further and further from the belief he is a franchise guy. Edited October 31, 2019 by TwistofFate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: I understand that, but I was using Allens garbage time as an example. What does it say? Its says that there's no chance at victory when down if you cant put up big numbers at the Qb position. In a one game scenario it could mean a number of things. It could indicate issues with the QB, the coaches/gameplan, the WR's, the offensive line etc. It could also could indicate bad weather, a superior Defense etc... I know these potential explanations could also be labeled as excuses, but my point is, without all of the information, blame for a lack of a 300 yard game can't be automatically placed on the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, TwistofFate said: I remember clearly what I wrote. You conviently left out the first part of the quote... OFFENSE wins games...You aren't getting to a championship without winning games. I could care less about what the score of last years Super Bowl is, its irrelevant. Both of those teams got there with high level Qb play....period, end of story. At the next level you need to bring a defense, but you aren't getting to the next level without an OFFENSE. Ill be one of the first to congratulate Allen on 300+, im not rooting against him, I simply don't believe in him...big difference. Make me a believer... because with each passing week, each fumble, each interception, and each mediocre performance, I drift further and further from the belief he is a franchise guy. I think we all get your act by now. You decided Allen wouldn’t be the guy early on. And you just want to be right. When he throws for 300, I can pretty much write the posts we’ll see from you. Things like it didn’t count because the defense was bad, or that a 60 yard completion was a fluke, or he threw for 300 but it should have been 400. I can’t wait to see what your next straw man will be. For me, I want the Bills to win games, as most of us do. Join in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: In a one game scenario it could mean a number of things. It could indicate issues with the QB, the coaches/gameplan, the WR's, the offensive line etc. It could also could indicate bad weather, a superior Defense etc... I know these potential explanations could also be labeled as excuses, but my point is, without all of the information, blame for a lack of a 300 yard game can't be automatically placed on the QB. I think overall you are right. But most of that comes into play whether a QB puts up a single 300 yard game in the first 15 games. IE coaching, matchupe etc. all fall into place by week one or 15. Allen is at 19 now. It is pretty rarefied air, the company is not great there. Does it mean he can't be the next great QB? No. But he would definitely be the very first to do so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, Mango said: I think overall you are right. But most of that comes into play whether a QB puts up a single 300 yard game in the first 15 games. IE coaching, matchupe etc. all fall into place by week one or 15. Allen is at 19 now. It is pretty rarefied air, the company is not great there. Does it mean he can't be the next great QB? No. But he would definitely be the very first to do so. I mean - he had a HISTORICALLY bad group of receivers last year, not sure whether that matters but it's something to consider. This is really his first season with NFL-quality pass catchers. The entire group last year was replacement-level at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I think we all get your act by now. You decided Allen wouldn’t be the guy early on. And you just want to be right. When he throws for 300, I can pretty much write the posts we’ll see from you. Things like it didn’t count because the defense was bad, or that a 60 yard completion was a fluke, or he threw for 300 but it should have been 400. I can’t wait to see what your next straw man will be. For me, I want the Bills to win games, as most of us do. Join in. At the top of the page I posted some of Allen's projected stats this season compared to last year. Every one of them has improved across the board. His response: but what was the comparative strength of schedule? Which, of course, is a totally valid point...if you aren't the same guy using a 300 yard game as a QB success barometer. A statistical truism that people will find figures that support their opinions and ignore ones that contradict it. For me, it's pretty simple. Is Allen improving? Yes. Is he where he needs to be in order to be 'the guy'? No. Is he on pace? Probably. Do 300 yard games matter at all in these determinations? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 49 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Not really. The ball is moving down field, right? The sticks continue to move, right? Hitting guys in stride on slants, screens, and seams lead to big gains. Tom Brady has made a career out of it. Then the defense sits on a route, your Wr pops a double move and you hit a huge pass. You might be cool with 10 incompletions in a row, but personally, for me, its pathetic. I already noted they were short yardage plays total. Which teams and QBs do all the time and it’s incredibly dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said: I mean - he had a HISTORICALLY bad group of receivers last year, not sure whether that matters but it's something to consider. This is really his first season with NFL-quality pass catchers. The entire group last year was replacement-level at best. He had a rough offensive line as well. Oh, and he got injured. And don't forget he was 30th in attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 300+ yards is a pretty low bar to hit. Let's stop pretending it's daunting. Washington is in full dumpster fire mode and makes a great candidate for Josh to torch. Edited October 31, 2019 by TheElectricCompany 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: I think we all get your act by now. You decided Allen wouldn’t be the guy early on. And you just want to be right. When he throws for 300, I can pretty much write the posts we’ll see from you. Things like it didn’t count because the defense was bad, or that a 60 yard completion was a fluke, or he threw for 300 but it should have been 400. I can’t wait to see what your next straw man will be. For me, I want the Bills to win games, as most of us do. Join in. It has nothing to do with being right and everything to do with actually watching football, and the Bills aren't the only team I watch. The is no "act." Its called reality. We've won, we are 5-2, but the reality is we've played poor teams, our defense has bailed out Allen with his turnovers and fumbles game after game against those poor teams. He hasn't had a dominant performance all season even playing against all sub par defenses. We've invested in recievers, running backs, TE and offensive lineman to give him the best chance at success. He hasnt taken advantage of it imo. Its troubling he hasn't been able to light up one team this year despite the weapons added around him. I need to see more, much more before he can be called a franchise guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 In 2019, there are three QBs averaging 300 or more passing yards per game right now. Their teams are a combined 10-11. There are also three QBs averaging between 210-215 passing yards per game right now. Their teams are a combined 16-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mango said: I think overall you are right. But most of that comes into play whether a QB puts up a single 300 yard game in the first 15 games. IE coaching, matchupe etc. all fall into place by week one or 15. Allen is at 19 now. It is pretty rarefied air, the company is not great there. Does it mean he can't be the next great QB? No. But he would definitely be the very first to do so. I have to admit, it is an interesting data point. As we know, Allen seems to take a while in games before he hits his stride and plays to his apparent capabilities. I guess we have to hope his career arch will be the same. Hopefully he will be a 'late bloomer" and continue to progress as he gets more comfortable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, TwistofFate said: ? I just clarified for you in writing that I'd rather see a loss with growth than a win based in average play. What exactly more do I have to own? If we continue to win against sub par opponents with sub par play, we arent going anywhere. If we lose a couple games against top tier teams but Allen steps up his game and throws for 350 and 3tds, Im fine with it. If he's showing growth in that loss, Id rather see that then winning against a team thats winless by way of ONE good drive in the 4th quarter....period. This is what people don't get..... This is a QB league. We have no idea what The Bills have in Allen due to the coaching, game planning & defense first mantra of this staff. Take a look at Chicago who has no idea whjat to do, because they have a tough schedule & no where near as dominant a D as they thought they had along with a QB they aren't sure is what they hoped for. Same in Jacksonville last year and many others. It is having a QB that can rally a team when needed that the Bills need to firgure out if they have. Not being able to throw for 300 & put up 30+ points is a real concern. And what happens next year when the Bills have a tougher schedule as the # 2 team in the division & SF, Seattle & LA Rams to start on the schedule? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Cleveland thought they had their QB and now they don’t know. The Jets thought they had their QB and now they don’t know. Tampa thought they had their QB and now they don’t know. Tennessee thought they had their QB and now they don’t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: It has nothing to do with being right and everything to do with actually watching football, and the Bills aren't the only team I watch. The is no "act." Its called reality. We've won, we are 5-2, but the reality is we've played poor teams, our defense has bailed out Allen with his turnovers and fumbles game after game against those poor teams. He hasn't had a dominant performance all season even playing against all sub par defenses. We've invested in recievers, running backs, TE and offensive lineman to give him the best chance at success. He hasnt taken advantage of it imo. Its troubling he hasn't been able to light up one team this year despite the weapons added around him. I need to see more, much more before he can be called a franchise guy. I agree he’s not a franchise guy yet. None of the guys drafted two years ago are, because it takes time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 51 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: This is what people don't get..... This is a QB league. We have no idea what The Bills have in Allen due to the coaching, game planning & defense first mantra of this staff. Take a look at Chicago who has no idea whjat to do, because they have a tough schedule & no where near as dominant a D as they thought they had along with a QB they aren't sure is what they hoped for. Same in Jacksonville last year and many others. It is having a QB that can rally a team when needed that the Bills need to firgure out if they have. Not being able to throw for 300 & put up 30+ points is a real concern. And what happens next year when the Bills have a tougher schedule as the # 2 team in the division & SF, Seattle & LA Rams to start on the schedule? Ok, you’re really reaching the point of being ridiculous at this point. Yes, people know good QB play is important for a successful NFL team. To say people don’t realize that is sophomoric. What people are saying is just what you said above, that we don’t know about Allen yet. And the reason we don’t know is because it takes time to figure out, and it involves a lot more than just the player, I.e. coaching, supporting cast, etc. The difference is you seem to have cast a premature vote, for reasons we can only guess at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Ok, you’re really reaching the point of being ridiculous at this point. Yes, people know good QB play is important for a successful NFL team. To say people don’t realize that is sophomoric. What people are saying is just what you said above, that we don’t know about Allen yet. And the reason we don’t know is because it takes time to figure out, and it involves a lot more than just the player, I.e. coaching, supporting cast, etc. The difference is you seem to have cast a premature vote, for reasons we can only guess at. Yes my vote is coaching, game plan & the overall coaching philosophy is stunting him and it is taking longer to figure out than it should. 300 should be simple, but hasn't been for the Bills in 40 games (39 under McDermott). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Yes my vote is coaching, game plan & the overall coaching philosophy is stunting him and it is taking longer to figure out than it should. 300 should be simple, but hasn't been for the Bills in 40 games (39 under McDermott). But yet they are 5-2. Also look at a team like the Ravens. Different ways to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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