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Baker being Baker

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3 minutes ago, vincec said:

I really like him.

He’s a First class dude

Edited by YoloinOhio

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11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Turnover Baker

Now that’s got me thinking of Schroeder’s Bakery, with the 5 baker brothers.  If you’re not from Buffalo, it won’t make sense.

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4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Gunner, please.  You've made this point over and over again.

 

You have to know that the situation Mahomes in particular came into was far far different than the situation any of the 2018 guys came into.  He was drafted onto a team that was already a winner, having been to the playoffs 3 straight years.  He sat for a year behind a savvy and capable veteran QB having a career year.  He is coached by one of the best regular-season HC in football with a track record of developing QB.  He has a great WR and a great TE.  Which of the 2018 class came into a situation anything close to that? 

LJax would probably have the closest match in a stable situation, but it's not that close in overall offensive talent especially last year's line.

 

You can believe that Mahomes and Watson are so supremely talented that they would overcome any obstacle, but at that point, it's a religious dogma.  It's quite possible that if Mahomes had a WR coach as his QB coach, no OL, no WR, and got thrown into the fire without a veteran presence in the QB room his rookie season, he would still look like a promising QB but nothing like the set-the-NFL-on-fire guy we've seen.

 

 

So looking back right now you would pass on those two guys and take your chances with the 2018 class would you? 

 

That is all I am saying. At the time there were people banging the table in favour of the "wait for 18" strategy. Numerous of them. I thought it was foolhardy then and it doesn't look any better now. And it isn't even a Bills point. This was before the 2017 draft, before the Bills passed on those guys and traded back for an extra 2018 first rounder (pretty much assuring they would try and take a QB in 2018). 

 

The 2017 class was good and yet talked down by the talking heads. The 2018 class was massively hyped by the talking heads and hasn't got close in terms of deliverables. And yes I think Mahomes or Watson would have been better in those same 2018 draftee situations. I just think they are better Quarterbacks (and I was something of a Mahomes sceptic coming out). 

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1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So looking back right now you would pass on those two guys and take your chances with the 2018 class would you? 

 

That is all I am saying. At the time there were people banging the table in favour of the "wait for 18" strategy. Numerous of them. I thought it was foolhardy then and it doesn't look any better now. And it isn't even a Bills point. This was before the 2017 draft, before the Bills passed on those guys and traded back for an extra 2018 first rounder (pretty much assuring they would try and take a QB in 2018). 

 

The 2017 class was good and yet talked down by the talking heads. The 2018 class was massively hyped by the talking heads and hasn't got close in terms of deliverables. And yes I think Mahomes or Watson would have been better in those same 2018 draftee situations. I just think they are better Quarterbacks (and I was something of a Mahomes sceptic coming out). 

 

Hindsight is always 20/20.

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Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Except I was saying this before the 2017 draft. I was saying "I am not so sure the 2018 class is better." 

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1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Watson wasn’t brought up being fed peeled grapes and water flown in from Chile as an entitled child nor coddled, and doesn’t need a pacifier when things aren’t perfect

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/17284078/oklahoma-sooners-qb-baker-mayfield-used-defying-critics

 

 

Well, neither was Mayfield for that matter, but the fact is that other QB in the league have been excoriated for similar (or not as extensive) snits as Bakers

It's a distraction.  Why bring it on yourself and the team?

 

Great job by Watson.

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

So looking back right now you would pass on those two guys and take your chances with the 2018 class would you? 

That is all I am saying.

 

You were saying " Would you swap any of those guys half way through year 2 with where Watson or Mahomes were at the same stage? "

My point is, none of the 2018 guys have had the same support structure as Watson and Mahomes.  It's not apples to apples.  

 

So sure, Watson and Mahomes both look great right now and I'd rather have one of them - probably in common with most of the GMs in the NFL.  But rationally, I recognize that if we drafted one of them in 2017, their "same stage" would very likely not have looked the same, and very likely not nearly as good.  Do you really think that Watson or Mahomes coached by Rico Dennison and David Culley in his first season, playing in his first season behind the Bills' OL coached by Juan Castillo, and throwing to Charles Clay, Deonte Thompson, Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews, and Kelvin Benjamin would look the same?  Watson's situation wasn't quite as good, but he came into a stable offensive system that everyone knew, with an effective run game and a great (probably underrated) receiver in Hopkins.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

The 2017 class was good and yet talked down by the talking heads. The 2018 class was massively hyped by the talking heads and hasn't got close in terms of deliverables. And yes I think Mahomes or Watson would have been better in those same 2018 draftee situations. I just think they are better Quarterbacks (and I was something of a Mahomes sceptic coming out). 

 

The first two sentences are inarguable.  The second two sentences are what I refer to as essentially articles of faith.  We don't get a do-over.  There is no way to test it.

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7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The first two sentences are inarguable.  The second two sentences are what I refer to as essentially articles of faith.  We don't get a do-over.  There is no way to test it.

 

I accept the third sentence is an article of faith that we can never test. The fourth I don't believe is. I think Mahomes and Watson are better Quarterbacks and the way to test it is their performances on the football field. Maybe one if the 2018 guys catches and surpasses them. I certainly hope Josh Allen does. But at this moment in time it looks very unlikely to me. 

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I accept the third sentence is an article of faith that we can never test. The fourth I don't believe is. I think Mahomes and Watson are better Quarterbacks and the way to test it is their performances on the football field. Maybe one if the 2018 guys catches and surpasses them. I certainly hope Josh Allen does. But at this moment in time it looks very unlikely to me. 

 

I think the only way to test it would be if they wind up in a substantially different system or situation as far as coaching, OL, and WR/TE talent, then what? 

And even if they do...they won't wind up there as rookies.  They'll have a lot more experience to help them make the best of it.

 

C'mon Gunner, Hopkins and Hill/Kelce vs Zay Jones and Charles Clay?  You can not test the supposition that Mahomes and Watson would matriculate the ball down the field with them. 

 

And I'm out of here.

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On 10/30/2019 at 7:25 PM, Nextmanup said:

Heard this clip on the radio today and got a kick out of it.

 

It just feels like things in Cleveland are generally in pretty rough shape.  LOL.

 

I think they can be 2 different teams on different days.


I hope we get the train wreck version when we play them!
 

 

Much like Philly. Unfortunately, we didn't get the Philly that played against Dallas.

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5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the only way to test it would be if they wind up in a substantially different system or situation as far as coaching, OL, and WR/TE talent, then what? 

And even if they do...they won't wind up there as rookies.  They'll have a lot more experience to help them make the best of it.

 

C'mon Gunner, Hopkins and Hill/Kelce vs Zay Jones and Charles Clay?  You can not test the supposition that Mahomes and Watson would matriculate the ball down the field with them. 

 

Yes I agree that one is untestable. That is supposition. I will believe they would have done a better job at it than the 2018 guys did.

 

The bit I am saying is testable is whether the 2017 QBs are just better than the 2018 QBs. Eventually that just comes down to production on the football field doesn't it? Let's take the 2012 class for a moment because those careers have played out. Is it fair to just say Russell Wilson despite joining a much better team than Ryan Tannehill joined is just a better Quarterback than him? Eventually you just have to call it. So we will be able to test whether Mahomes and Watson are better than for example Darnold and Mayfield (I want to keep Allen out of this because it just garners emotional reactions and this is NOT about Allen and NOT about the Bills). We will never be able to test how they would have fared in the situations that the 2018 guys landed in as rookies..... but their overall abilities as Quarterbacks we can eventually take a call on that. We might disagree on when.... but there will likely come a time when it is just beyond debate.

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ESPN made a big deal of Baker trying to quite the fans in the goal line stand we had. Question for anyone at the game:

Was it Browns fans making all the noise or were there so many Bills fans that we made made it hard for the Browns to hear?

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I saw quite a few bills fans scattered around on the telecast, but not sure if was enough to make that much noise. Im just guessing its the novice fans not used to winning. Noticed the same at new era a few times where we were over excited and wanted to cheer, but dont know we are supposed to be quiet when were on O.. lol

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37 minutes ago, Dopey said:

ESPN made a big deal of Baker trying to quite the fans in the goal line stand we had. Question for anyone at the game:

Was it Browns fans making all the noise or were there so many Bills fans that we made made it hard for the Browns to hear?

 

he forgot to simply roll out and throw to the TE for the easy score

 

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As a big Oklahoma fan, I really wanted Baker to be the one they picked.  Now, I'm really glad he wasn't there to be had.  He may very well be a good or great QB but something about his attitude just rubs me wrong now.  I know he's got the ole chip-on-the-shoulder and everything but I wouldn't exactly be lining up to rally behind him if I were on his team.  JA has him beat all day in the attitude and leadership departments. 

Edited by Distorted One

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5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Cowherd is going for the jugular.  I am not a fan of Cowherd but I love this battle.

 

 https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2019-12-03-colin-cowherd-baker-mayfields-nfl-future-is-as-a-backup-quarterback/

 

Way too early for this take.   Mayfield is slowly starting to have a similar career trajectory to Jameis Winston.  If he doesnt start slowing down in the interceptions Cowherd could very well be right, but I think he could easily have the career of someone like Stafford.  

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17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Cowherd is going for the jugular.  I am not a fan of Cowherd but I love this battle.

 

 https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2019-12-03-colin-cowherd-baker-mayfields-nfl-future-is-as-a-backup-quarterback/

 

It is probably a little premature to call him a backup.. But these guys do need to swing every once in awhile in order to be right. 
I could absolutely see baker being extremely mediocre for his rookie deal and having to sign a backup deal somewhere after. The talent was there for sure, but was he worth the first overall pick with that mouth and attitude? Most people in the offseason I think knew the mess this would turn into, the browns were hyped so terribly bad by the media. This goes to show that sometimes culture can be more important than elite talent. The browns have a few real legit superstars and have built a talented core but they can’t put it together. It’s easy to blame Kitchens and it’s a brownsy thing to fire him after one full season, I think I would invest heavily in the offensive line in free agency and the draft and give him one more season. 

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I agree it's too early for the take, I just like watching these guys battle.  Baker can't say anything now but once (if) he starts playing well....Baker is going to come back.

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18 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Way too early for this take.   Mayfield is slowly starting to have a similar career trajectory to Jameis Winston.  If he doesnt start slowing down in the interceptions Cowherd could very well be right, but I think he could easily have the career of someone like Stafford.  

 

Not a good trajectory to be on. Winston has somehow managed to eclipse his turnover prone performances of the past 4 seasons and is having a truly Petermanesque kind of year...

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Cowherd is an absolute moron.

 

It's still goingto take some time until one should make judgements about the career any of these youn QBs.

 

But I  think one can safely conclude Josh is head and shoulders above Baker when it comes to class. And yes, I am aware many of you couldn't give a rat's ass about class.

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Cowherd is one of the most punchable people in Sports media... In a world with Chris "I have a crush on Tom Brady" Collinsworth, that's a hell of an accomplishment....

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Faker Baker sucks. He has 2 great wide receivers in Odell Beckham and Landry and 2 great RBs in Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, but ranks near the bottom in most QB stats. 

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