Josh Allen - week EIGHT report card

[Bangarang]

21 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

If I had a nickel for every "Josh is still developing...." comment ?

We know he is. Can he put together a complete game along the way? 

 

I don’t think anyone views Allen as a completed project at his point. We all knew he would need time to develop. Where we all differ is the kind of QB we think he’s going to develop into. Saying he’s still developing is pointless. To me, it’s like using it as a crutch to excuse poor production with the hope he will blossom into an amazing QB. That may never happen. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bangarang

[thebandit27]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing Allen's play yesterday--he did not play well.

 

I also don't think that you're going to see a "put the team on his back" style performance from him this season. He's hit the point where DCs have a season's worth of tape on him, which is typically where we see the growing pains occur.

 

Absent a Rams/Chiefs style supporting cast, I don't expect huge offensive output. I think that we should expect a bumpy ride where progress is neither linear nor predictable, but evident nevertheless.

[WideNine]

47 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

The reason we don't have an effective screen game lies with the O-line and RB's.  They clearly can't execute it very well and Daboll knows this.  On the rare times they try to run it Allen has to throw the ball at the RB's feet because half the D is around the screen guy. 

 

 

 

Interesting, because I could not track it from the broadcast, but there was an attempted screen in the second half where the announcers mentioned one of the Bills seemed to be completely on the wrong page and took off up field - and the Eagles D seemed to be all over it. Allen threw it at his linemen's feet and I thought that was a silver lining I could take from what looked like one of several broken plays.

 

I don't think Allen played great, but I don't think he played terrible either. I just wish Daboll leaned a bit more on his running game with the field conditions they way they were. Seemed to be the wiser route that the Eagles took. Feels like we conceded victory to their defense stopping the run without really testing it - like passing is what you are supposed to do against a strong run defense when the wind is at your back, but if the winds are blowing and it is raining you have to shift strategy. Feels like Daboll has preconceived notions of what is supposed to be working rather than what is actually working on the field at the time.

 

Enough has been said about our defense, the way the d-line was getting moved off of their spots, which had a trickle-down with guys not being in the right fits - then there were just missed tackles or tackles made after bigger gains.

 

Was not a good game all around, from the game plan, to game-day coaching, to player execution - sometimes you just get beat from top to bottom. Even our special teams were struggling a bit with Hausch-money pushing it to the right when all the flags were showing a stiff left-to-right wind, the blocked extra point. We did get some turnovers, which is a positive, but we have to be able to do more with them.

 

On to Washington...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Interesting, because I could not track it from the broadcast, but there was an attempted screen in the second half where the announcers mentioned one of the Bills seemed to be completely on the wrong page and took off up field - and the Eagles D seemed to be all over it. Allen threw it at his linemen's feet and I thought that was a silver lining I could take from what looked like one of several broken plays.

 

I don't think Allen played great, but I don't think he played terrible either. I just wish Daboll leaned a bit more on his running game with the field conditions they way they were. Seemed to be the wiser route that the Eagles took. Feels like we conceded victory to their defense stopping the run without really testing it - like passing is what you are supposed to do against a strong run defense when the wind is at your back, but if the winds are blowing and it is raining you have to shift strategy. Feels like Daboll has preconceived notions of what is supposed to be working rather than what is actually working on the field at the time.

 

 

 

I don't think we have a running game that Daboll can rely on.  And before folks rip me and point out we've been running the ball well I believe it's because NO ONE fears the running game beyond Allen getting lose for a 25 yard run.  So yea we can get some garbage rushing yards in the middle of the field but when it gets to 3rd and short or down near the goal line they fear Allen, NOT Gore or Singleterry or Yeldon.

 

When teams approach the Bills they know that the WORST CASE scenario is that if there's a huge hole for Gore it's a 10 - 15 yard gain and they live to fight another down.  Singleterry hasn't showed that he can break off a run for 50 yards and Yeldon wouldn't even make most teams backfields.  I watch other NFL games and see RB's ripping through holes for 30 yard or more gains. 

 

Our opponents focus on harassing Allen with blitzes and trying to take Beasley & Brown away.  They don't worry about our:

 

*  Running game

*  TE's

*  Screen Passes

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[Prickly Pete]

21 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I don't think we have a running game that Daboll can rely on.  And before folks rip me and point out we've been running the ball well I believe it's because NO ONE fears the running game beyond Allen getting lose for a 25 yard run.  So yea we can get some garbage rushing yards in the middle of the field but when it gets to 3rd and short or down near the goal line they fear Allen, NOT Gore or Singleterry or Yeldon.

 

When teams approach the Bills they know that the WORST CASE scenario is that if there's a huge hole for Gore it's a 10 - 15 yard gain and they live to fight another down.  Singleterry hasn't showed that he can break off a run for 50 yards and Yeldon wouldn't even make most teams backfields.  I watch other NFL games and see RB's ripping through holes for 30 yard or more gains. 

 

Our opponents focus on harassing Allen with blitzes and trying to take Beasley & Brown away.  They don't worry about our:

 

*  Running game

*  TE's

*  Screen Passes

 

 

 

 

I doubt they really "worry" about Brown or Beasley, but are just aware that those are the best guys. There isn't a single player that strikes fear in any of the defenses. No one that is a match up nightmare, no game planning around shutting one of these guys down (aside from the QB). Allen taking off and running is the only thing out of the ordinary. They have been doing well enough to win with just a good scheme, and Allen making some plays.

 

They aren't real contenders yet...Is that a surprise to anyone here?

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by 32ABBA

[billspro]

10 hours ago, BillsBlue said:

I was there and honestly I blame the fumble on the play call we should've thrown the ball on that play, also I give Allen a solid B for the game he had no help from the line and the run game was weak. He threw 2 TDS in the worst of conditions and no picks. He continues to show his growth week in and week out. Trust me the weather was terrible. The only thing I want to see is more singletary than Gore and especially a nice short  passing game developed with singletary. The kid is special and should be what our offense starts with and leans on when times get tough whether it be the pass or run with him. Also Tyler kroft looks like the real deal we need to play him more and throw to him more often. 

 

The Eagles knew we called that play before the snap

[Tcali]

10 hours ago, zow2 said:

After it was 24-13, the Bills had 3 drives and I don't know the passing numbers off those 3 drives but they were horrible.  I'm sorry, the QB needs to do better.  So many people on this board blame the play calling and the receivers, etc..   Even losers like Matt Schaub can throw for 400+ yards, ,....Daniel Jones has now had multiple 300 yd games.

Josh needs to read the field and recognize overages quickly and get the ball out.  IF he is incapable, then he should take off and scramble because that's his best play..not the designed runs but rather the unscripted scrambles.  

you said it like it is.  Sometimes you need the offense to pick you up.And JA spends 3 qtrs of every damn game meandering from one failed drive to another.Little mistakes mostly...which add up.Then he looks like an all pro for a quarter or so. Thats not enough if we want to be real contenders.We may get lucky this yr and get a wild card.And then lose 41-7 in the playoff game(s) 

10 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

 

I doubt they really "worry" about Brown or Beasley, but are just aware that those are the best guys. There isn't a single player that strikes fear in any of the defenses. No one that is a match up nightmare, no game planning around shutting one of these guys down (aside from the QB). Allen taking off and running is the only thing out of the ordinary. They have been doing well enough to win with just a good scheme, and Allen making some plays.

 

They aren't real contenders yet...Is that a surprise to anyone here?

 

no not a surprise. some of us guys who are getting older are a bit tired of this never really getting to be a contender stuff.the decades are rolling by.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Tcali

[Reed83HOF]

6 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing Allen's play yesterday--he did not play well.

 

I also don't think that you're going to see a "put the team on his back" style performance from him this season. He's hit the point where DCs have a season's worth of tape on him, which is typically where we see the growing pains occur.

 

Absent a Rams/Chiefs style supporting cast, I don't expect huge offensive output. I think that we should expect a bumpy ride where progress is neither linear nor predictable, but evident nevertheless.

 

[Tcali]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

QBing stats can be misleading. Altho I do agree he is better than last yr. But how about a nice complete game?.And that is measured by our eyes...not by stats.

[starrymessenger]

I would give him a C. But that's not surprising IMO given his youth and inexperience. So it doesn't mean that he can't improve,. Whether he will or not is right now anybody's guess. I'm optimistic but there are no guarantees. It's just too hard to project a college prospect at that position to the pros. It's pretty much a crap shoot. 

Something that concerns and puzzles me is the inaccuracy so far this year of his long ball. Missing them as badly and as frequently is a recent development. I don't understand what the reason for this might be. His short passing game, which has improved, used to be the problem. His long ball was always previously pretty decent.

[WideNine]

20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I don't think we have a running game that Daboll can rely on.  And before folks rip me and point out we've been running the ball well I believe it's because NO ONE fears the running game beyond Allen getting lose for a 25 yard run.  So yea we can get some garbage rushing yards in the middle of the field but when it gets to 3rd and short or down near the goal line they fear Allen, NOT Gore or Singleterry or Yeldon.

 

When teams approach the Bills they know that the WORST CASE scenario is that if there's a huge hole for Gore it's a 10 - 15 yard gain and they live to fight another down.  Singleterry hasn't showed that he can break off a run for 50 yards and Yeldon wouldn't even make most teams backfields.  I watch other NFL games and see RB's ripping through holes for 30 yard or more gains. 

 

Our opponents focus on harassing Allen with blitzes and trying to take Beasley & Brown away.  They don't worry about our:

 

*  Running game

*  TE's

*  Screen Passes

 

 

 

I do not mind running Allen, but prefer they be prescriptive around designed runs limiting those to the red zone. He is effective as a triple threat where he has options to pass, hand-off, or run it himself.

 

That is a nightmare for defenses to defend especially when we can present some misdirection. This team's proficiency in the red zone is a testament to how difficult that is to defend with the short field. The worse I expect is that Allen has to elect to throw it away, or he gets stopped short, or we turn the ball over and miss out on at least 3 points, but put our defense in a better position.

 

What I objected to yesterday is calling a QB sweep that looked like a QB sweep fooling no one, in the rain, with a struggling o-line, backed up deep in our own zone. So basically being blind to where we were on the field, the field conditions, and the current play of your offensive line - Feliciano (I think) was having a pretty rough day and I think I read that Morse also tripped on that play.

 

I agree that we could use some upgrades, but Singletary was getting over 6 yards per and Gore 4.4, but only were given 12 carries. For the conditions yesterday that was far too few. I would have liked to see more involvement from Kroft - he caught a few, but the Eagles have struggled defending the middle of the field so between that and Allen keeping linebackers close to the box Kroft and Beasley should have been able to find holes just past those shallow zones and targeted more than they were.

 

The Eagles made it a point to try to take away Brown there was a lot of bump and hold going on and the refs seemed to be letting it happen both ways. I prefer it when they let them play and as long as it is being called the same way from both sides its all good - the Bills needed to adjust to having a large part of their offense taken out and lean on others to step up.

 

 

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

Allen has lost the nickname "4th quarter".

[Dablitzkrieg]

Allen is regressing in my opinion.  If it's not the INT's, it's fumbles.  Defenses do not respect the deep balls so they are putting 8+9 in the box because he either doesn't throw them or misses them inaccurately.  I'm telling you it looks like they are coaching the gunslinger mentality out of him and it sucks.

[CincyBillsFan]

34 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

 

I doubt they really "worry" about Brown or Beasley, but are just aware that those are the best guys. There isn't a single player that strikes fear in any of the defenses. No one that is a match up nightmare, no game planning around shutting one of these guys down (aside from the QB). Allen taking off and running is the only thing out of the ordinary. They have been doing well enough to win with just a good scheme, and Allen making some plays.

 

They aren't real contenders yet...Is that a surprise to anyone here?

 

 

I was being nice but I suspect you're closer to the truth here.  The way the Eagles player came off Beasley to let him roam FREE at the goal line in fear that Allen was about to take off was all you needed to see as to how teams are playing us.

 

This is why I have so much trouble trying to rank Allen versus the other young QB's.  While the Bills front office has made great progress in the absolute in upgrading the O-line & skill players the starting point was bottom 3 in the league at every position group.  So "making progress" is relative and still leaves the bills no better then bottom half of the NFL here.

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I was being nice but I suspect you're closer to the truth here.  The way the Eagles player came off Beasley to let him roam FREE at the goal line in fear that Allen was about to take off was all you needed to see as to how teams are playing us.

 

This is why I have so much trouble trying to rank Allen versus the other young QB's.  While the Bills front office has made great progress in the absolute in upgrading the O-line & skill players the starting point was bottom 3 in the league at every position group.  So "making progress" is relative and still leaves the bills no better then bottom half of the NFL here.

 

 

 

Yeah, they need a guy that really draws attention from defenses. Sure, someone will say "The Patriots don't...", but they have Brady and Belichick, two of the all time greats (if not the greatest) at their positions. It's much more reasonable approach to find some elite talent. 

 

They are still another good draft away. But that doesn't mean they can't make the playoffs, maybe get some big game experience, and keep developing in the meantime.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by 32ABBA

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

Yeah, they need a guy that really draws attention for defenses. Sure, someone will say "The Patriots don't...", but they have Brady and Belichick, two of the all time greats (if not the greatest) at their positions. It's much more reasonable approach to find some elite talent. 

 

They are still another good draft away. But that doesn't mean they can't make the playoffs, maybe get some big game experience, and keep developing in the meantime.

 

 

 

Actually the Pats do in Edellmen. 

 

And last year they had Gronk + Edellmen.  Isn't it funny that now that the Pats are down to only one big time play maker on offense other then Brady their offensive production has been pedestrian this year?

 

Last night we watched a guy who was teaching HS a couple of weeks ago put up all pro passing numbers playing with KC's stable of explosive play makers.  If anything I think we're underestimating how important these guys are for a QB & Offense. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[OldTimer1960]

9 hours ago, zow2 said:

How many 200 yard, 2 TD games do we get to watch before we see our franchise QB throw a 300 yard, 3 TD game?!?   When can we have an offense that can bail out the defense?  You see a guy come off the couch in Atlanta and throw 450... you see Bridgewater who hadn't played in a couple years throw for 350 and 4 TD's..  you have Daniel Jones tossing multiple 300 yd games already.. Minshew, etc..

 

Not saying Josh should have thrown for 300 and 3 TDs  in those weather conditions yesterday, but c'mon.  Stop with the excuses.  Time to grow up.  After the Singletary TD, there was ample opportunity to get chunk passing yards on screen plays and they still couldn't do it.  

 

I don't care as much about the designed run fumble yesterday,  I care more that when Allen stands in the pocket and scans the field, a lot of bad things happen.  That's very concerning.

I’ll take wins over 300 yard games anytime.  

[london_bills]

10 hours ago, zow2 said:

How many 200 yard, 2 TD games do we get to watch before we see our franchise QB throw a 300 yard, 3 TD game?!?   When can we have an offense that can bail out the defense?  You see a guy come off the couch in Atlanta and throw 450... you see Bridgewater who hadn't played in a couple years throw for 350 and 4 TD's..  you have Daniel Jones tossing multiple 300 yd games already.. Minshew, etc..

 

Not saying Josh should have thrown for 300 and 3 TDs  in those weather conditions yesterday, but c'mon.  Stop with the excuses.  Time to grow up.  After the Singletary TD, there was ample opportunity to get chunk passing yards on screen plays and they still couldn't do it.  

 

I don't care as much about the designed run fumble yesterday,  I care more that when Allen stands in the pocket and scans the field, a lot of bad things happen.  That's very concerning.

I agree with this. 

[zow2]

I think it's pretty obvious with regards to Josh.  The coaching staff saw a bit of an out-of-control Ferrari driving around last season and it was risky, so they put the restrictor plates on for 2019.  They coached Josh to stop running around at every breakdown, and hang there in the pocket to scan the field. They will call some designed runs as to not completely shut down the athlete.. but they've told him to stop scrambling so much (which i think he is awesome at doing).

 

In my opinion, they've gone too far the opposite direction.  There has to be a happy medium.  If JA was a really accurate QB from the pocket maybe it would work.  But he's not, and he's not great yet at recognizing defenses...he's taking too long to make a decision.  The coaches have him so terrified of making a mistake (kinda like Marrone did to EJ Manuel) that he's paralyzed to make a play or try to fit it in a tight window.

 

Last week the Bills had 7 drives that totaled 21 yards.   It's too hard to be consistent with 10 play scoring drives..  too many negatives can happen out of the QB's control (penalties, drops, turnovers, bad snaps, etc..).

 

Basically the coaches have asked him to be an 8-10 play drive manager, or it's 3 and out.    Time to cut him loose and let him be Josh Allen, the exciting QB.

[Hebert19]

On 10/28/2019 at 6:57 AM, zow2 said:

How many 200 yard, 2 TD games do we get to watch before we see our franchise QB throw a 300 yard, 3 TD game?!?   When can we have an offense that can bail out the defense?  You see a guy come off the couch in Atlanta and throw 450... you see Bridgewater who hadn't played in a couple years throw for 350 and 4 TD's..  you have Daniel Jones tossing multiple 300 yd games already.. Minshew, etc..

 

Not saying Josh should have thrown for 300 and 3 TDs  in those weather conditions yesterday, but c'mon.  Stop with the excuses.  Time to grow up.  After the Singletary TD, there was ample opportunity to get chunk passing yards on screen plays and they still couldn't do it.  

 

I don't care as much about the designed run fumble yesterday,  I care more that when Allen stands in the pocket and scans the field, a lot of bad things happen.  That's very concerning.

300 yards will never be the plan for this coach and this team.  If it happens it's by accident. We like to control the ball and the ideal game is 150 on the ground and 250 in the air.  32+ min in top.