TwistofFate Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: No after his first couple years Brees was still figuring it out. That said, I think they need to give Allen the keys to the car and let him drive. Including more audibles. Brees had multiple 300 yard games in his first 16 NFL starts, as well as multiple, multiple TD games. He took over games and was putting up numbers like that back when it was much harder to do than it is now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I honestly haven't seen too much Allen bashing today. It's been mostly on the defense and the coaching staff. I know that defending Allen is a knee jerk reaction around here but it's better to save it for his really bad games when he gets criticized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Brees had multiple 300 yard games in his first 16 NFL starts, as well as multiple, multiple TD games. He took over games and was putting up numbers like that back when it was much harder to do than it is now. He threw for 295 and 191 per game average his first two full seasons with the Chargers. He got traded because of injury and because the Chargers didn’t think he was the guy. I only brought him up because you said all the greats had it figured out along the same time line for Allen. That’s just not true. Which is not to say Allen doesn’t need to continue improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'll make this simple. Based on where he came from and where he was in his development when we drafted him, Allen should basically be looked at as a rookie QB. When you do that you'll not only not be upset about him however upset you may be. But you might actually feel really good about things. Lost a game to a desperate team today. They were more physical on both sides of the ball. We're on to Washington and 6-2 at the halfway point. Let's go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Agree, he needs to be able to sling it, but he's become tentative because of the numerous ints this season that have hurt the team. Comparing Allen to Brees is insanity. Brees has always been dominant. He was one of the best Qbs in the nation in college, and set several college passing records that have still yet to be broken. Brees certainly was not dominant to start his career. Edited October 28, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6TD:1INT over last 3 games for Josh Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He threw for 295 and 191 per game average his first two full seasons with the Chargers. He got traded because of injury and because the Chargers didn’t think he was the guy. I only brought him up because you said all the greats had it figured out along the same time line for Allen. That’s just not true. Which is not to say Allen doesn’t need to continue improving. i never said anyone had it "figured out." I said he's a game manager, he's playing timid, and im highly concerned that he's yet to have 300+ break out game that says, I've arrived. Im comparing him to his counterparts in todays era. All those other Qbs have taken over games with their passing ability. Im deeply concerned about Allen. I understand you're trying to prove a point, but if you're not concerned about Allen's play in the modern NFL, I really don't know what to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) JA has regressed tremendously since his head injury. He has to get back to what made him unique and stop with the turnovers. They NEED to STOP. Edited October 28, 2019 by Chill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: i never said anyone had it "figured out." I said he's a game manager, he's playing timid, and im highly concerned that he's yet to have 300+ break out game that says, I've arrived. Im comparing him to his counterparts in todays era. All those other Qbs have taken over games with their passing ability. Im deeply concerned about Allen. I understand you're trying to prove a point, but if you're not concerned about Allen's play in the modern NFL, I really don't know what to say. He is a young QB figuring it out. I think they need to take the brakes off and let him play, audible, and such. I’ve already said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I honestly don't now what it is Daboll and McDermott are trying to do. Is it scheme week to week and win now or develop Josh Allen and build around him and try and accentuate what he is good at? By the play calling you cant tell. If you want to get some of the pressure off of Josh than call a game with quick throws and mix runs in to keep the defense off his back. If are taking the kid gloves off than let the kid audible, throw off play action on first down. Just make a decision and go stick with it Today we started with two drives straight from the playbook of Dick Jauron circa 2005 Then we just dont run at all or just run the franchise qb into the pile. Its wet and windy so why not dial up 60 yard shot plays and while were at it lets throw far side outs with a defender trailing when we need 3 yards He looked frustrated and disinterested today Almost like he knew he ddnt like what was going to be called 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeam Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I hope you're right OP and I'll take your word for it because I was working today and never had a chance to see the game. I'll be looking out for someone to do an all 22 review and confirm what they see. Thanks for the post. This board really needed something positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Today I agree on the playcalling. It was not good. I still fundamentally disagree with how you want to run this offense though. How much more proof do you need to see to understand that although Allen has a great arm, that is he is still very raw and developing as he plays. Clearly, he should NOT come out throwing and be the focal point of the offensive scheme at the start. He is not an elite starting QB just yet. First off, most every draft pundit stated that Josh Allen was a "project" QB that needed to sit and learn for a year. Instead he was thrown into the fray in the very first game because this coaching staff miss judged the starter in Nathan Peterman. You yourself stated you thought Allen was graded as a third round pick and needed time to develop. Plus, the Bills don't have that "go to" receiver that is always open, always getting separation! Not at the WR position or the TE position. Or, the pass play designs are not allowing the receivers to find those open lanes. Some have been, but mostly not. I go back to that first drive in the second half of the Miami game in which the offense came out running with four straight runs and ended a 98 yard TD drive with 6 passes, 6 runs and Josh going 6 for 6 passing. That drive was also marred by a -10 yard holding penalty on Buffalo, which they overcame. You may see Josh as a QB that needs to throw from the start to find rhythm. I think he needs to realize the onus isn't on him to make all the offensive plays from the start and thus is calmer, more settled down as he plays. He didn't start the second half of that Miami game by slinging it all over as the Bills came out running, found success and allowed Josh to get into a rhythm quickly because he wasn't being forced to carry the offense. What we are seeing is the reason as to why Brian Daboll has never fielded a passing offense better then 23th in yards in a season out of five seasons as an NFL OC. Most of the time his offenses have been near last. He's just not that good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvbillsfan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: I honestly don't now what it is Daboll and McDermott are trying to do. Is it scheme week to week and win now or develop Josh Allen and build around him and try and accentuate what he is good at? By the play calling you cant tell. If you want to get some of the pressure off of Josh than call a game with quick throws and mix runs in to keep the defense off his back. If are taking the kid gloves off than let the kid audible, throw off play action on first down. Just make a decision and go stick with it Today we started with two drives straight from the playbook of Dick Jauron circa 2005 Then we just dont run at all or just run the franchise qb into the pile. Its wet and windy so why not dial up 60 yard shot plays and while were at it lets throw far side outs with a defender trailing when we need 3 yards He looked frustrated and disinterested today Almost like he knew he ddnt like what was going to be called It seems clear to me what they are trying to do. I could be completely off base but Josh Allen is dropping back 40 times a game. Usually 30 something pass attempts with a few scrambles in there. I think they want him to get as many looks as they can and see what he’s got and how much he can develop this year. Sure they want to win but Daboll and McDermott can’t be so stubborn as to say we are only going to run the ball 15 times a game with our running backs. Our oline is built to maul people and we aren’t even attempting to do that. So I gotta think from a coaches perspective Josh Allen’s develop is the most important aspect of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He is a young QB figuring it out. I think they need to take the brakes off and let him play, audible, and such. I’ve already said that. With what we got on offense I think it’s best to keep going the path they are on. We are winning games, yeah a lot of it is on the shoulders of our D but a W is a W. Today’s game got away from us, it’s the first one all season that has..... If a few more do over the next couple weeks you start asking Josh to do more. Right now though, it’s about eliminating mistakes (like today’s fumble) and grinding out wins. I do think this team needs to add a legit weapon at WR. John Brown is solid but he’s not a number #1 WR, Beasley was suppose to be a safety net but is basically our #2. Edited October 28, 2019 by BananaB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, BananaB said: With what we got on offense I think it’s best to keep going the path they are on. We are in winning games, yeah a lot of it is on the shoulders of our D but a W is a W. Today’s game got away from us, it’s the first one all season that has..... If a few more do over the next couple weeks you start asking Josh to do more. Right now though, it’s about eliminating mistakes (like today’s fumble) and grinding out wins. I do think this team needs to add a legit weapon at WR. John Brown is solid but he’s not a number #1 WR, Beasley was suppose to be a safety net but is basically our #2. He’s done a lot better the past few games eliminating interceptions, but the offense looks too limited right now. They need to get Beasley involved more, have Singletary in earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Plus, the Bills don't have that "go to" receiver that is always open, always getting separation! Not at the WR position or the TE position. Or, the pass play designs are not allowing the receivers to find those open lanes. Some have been, but mostly not. I That is completely false. Im tired of the excuses for Allen. Cole Beasley averages 3.5 yards of separation per play. That is wide open in the NFL, its on par with the best in the league, and its always open. Smoke averages 2.5, which is about the league average in terms of separation. These guys are open, Allen simply isnt connecting. Why do you think Beasley is getting more aggravated by the week? The plays are there to be made and these players are open. If Beasley was on New England he'd be pro bowl bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He’s done a lot better the past few games eliminating interceptions, but the offense looks too limited right now. They need to get Beasley involved more, have Singletary in earlier. We’ve seen very little of Singletary but most of it’s been good, not sure why they refuse to give him the ball early..... What’s weird is, in most games this season we open up with Gore and then in the second half it seems we move onto feature a different RB. Kind of ***** up. If those guys give us the best chance to win later in the game, they give us the best chance early in my opinion. Edited October 28, 2019 by BananaB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Daboll is the problem, he isn’t the right coach for Allen. McDermott needs to hire a young guy who understands how to coach a young guy like Allen. The passing coach down at LSU, Joe Brady, should be approached for the position immediately after the season. I don't like Daboll either, but it's also an indictment on McDermott's ability to hire the right OC. I actually like McD, but not many HC's get to burn through OC's without a period of sustained success to provide the organization sufficient confidence in the HC himself. We'll see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said: It seems clear to me what they are trying to do. I could be completely off base but Josh Allen is dropping back 40 times a game. Usually 30 something pass attempts with a few scrambles in there. I think they want him to get as many looks as they can and see what he’s got and how much he can develop this year. Sure they want to win but Daboll and McDermott can’t be so stubborn as to say we are only going to run the ball 15 times a game with our running backs. Our oline is built to maul people and we aren’t even attempting to do that. So I gotta think from a coaches perspective Josh Allen’s develop is the most important aspect of this season. then go get him AJ Green or somebody else than can get open You want to see if your qb can throw the ball he needs targets than can separate John Brown and Beasley are better than last year but still not an acceptable NFL duo SF is a running team and they went out and still spent capital to upgrade with Emmanuel sanders Were starting Duke Williams gor goodness sake Last year they wasted half a season on a 280 lb wr with stone hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: Me too- Daboll concerns me Triple up on that concern. I feel like Daboll has cut off Josh's balls. Josh doesn't have that killer instinct when running like he had before. I understand the need to try to make him a pocket passer, but look what Lamar is doing with his legs. Josh was doing the same thing, but now he hesitates too much. Daboll seems to call plays to Josh's weaknesses instead of playing to his strengths. The running calls with Gore up the gut all the time are also so predictable. It feels like defenses know what we are going to do and react accordingly. The play calling seems to be getting worse as the year goes on and any unpredictability that keeps a defense on its heels is a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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