Bills Snap Count vs the Giants

[Royale with Cheese]

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/buffalo-bills-snap-counts

 

Trent Murphy again leading defensive lineman with 63% of the snaps.  Followed by Oliver at 60%, followed by Hughes at 59%.

Everyone else about the same (Star, both Phillips and Shaq).  Shaq had the biggest jump with 7 more on field plays this week.

 

For offense, DiMarco had the biggest noticeable decline.  48% to 21%.

Zay and Gore got the biggest incline with 42% to 59%/28% to 45%.

[billsfan1959]

The reduced snaps for Singletary (48 to 25) and his low number of touches in this game was a head scratcher. Given that there is a big drop off in production in offensive skill positions after Brown and Beasley, you would think they would want to get the ball into the hands of another natural playmaker more. I don't think there is any question that Singletary has that natural playmaking ability. 

 

I really love what they are doing on offense and this would be my only real question mark so far.

Edited September 16, 2019 by billsfan1959

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

So per the comments in the Athletic article about H Phillips taking snaps away from Star and playing with the "1's " in the 2nd half, anyone know what would be the cap hit on Star if they cut him after this year?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So per the comments in the Athletic article about H Phillips taking snaps away from Star and playing with the "1's " in the 2nd half, anyone know what would be the cap hit on Star if they cut him after this year?

 

Well Star only had one less snap this week than he had last week.  Right now Oliver is dominating with snaps.

 

I'm surprised with Jordan Phillips in the mid to low 20's percent.

 

Looks like our core DT rotation is Oliver/Star/Harrison Phillips.  

[TPS]

Darn, they don't have D. Johnson's.  Seemed like he was noticeably higher, as was shaq.  

 

I guess you can infer from Trent's decrease that DJ increased...?

Edited September 16, 2019 by TPS

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, TPS said:

Darn, they don't have D. Johnson's.  Seemed like he was noticeably higher, as was shaq.  

 

I guess you can infer from Trent's decrease that DJ increased...?

 

I'll look it up later  today.  They should have it up at some point.

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/buffalo-bills-snap-counts

 

Trent Murphy again leading defensive lineman with 63% of the snaps.  Followed by Oliver at 60%, followed by Hughes at 59%.

Everyone else about the same (Star, both Phillips and Shaq).  Shaq had the biggest jump with 7 more on field plays this week.

 

For offense, DiMarco had the biggest noticeable decline.  48% to 21%.

Zay and Gore got the biggest incline with 42% to 59%/28% to 45%.

 

 

Star was pathetic out there yesterday..........they are stuck with him cuzza the $26M guarantees but McD gotta' be thinking about Vincent Taylor sitting on the PS while he's playing a guy that's getting spun around like a top out there.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well Star only had one less snap this week than he had last week.  Right now Oliver is dominating with snaps.

 

I'm surprised with Jordan Phillips in the mid to low 20's percent.

 

Looks like our core DT rotation is Oliver/Star/Harrison Phillips.  

 

True count was the same, but the point was that Phillips snaps were with the other starters in the 2nd half at the expense of Star.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Star was pathetic out there yesterday..........they are stuck with him cuzza the $26M guarantees but McD gotta' be thinking about Vincent Taylor sitting on the PS while he's playing a guy that's getting spun around like a top out there.  

 

I see you are still on your Star crusade.

 

He's still getting snaps and not deactivated like you suggested was a possibility a month ago.  

 

Until I we see significant snaps reduced, I think he's doing at least adequately.  McDermott isn't going to continue to play him if he's as bad as you say he is.

Let see what happens this next week.

[TPS]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'll look it up later  today.  They should have it up at some point.

My impression of the game was that McD had Shaq at RDE and DJ at LDE a bit more in the first half because they can set the edge better than Jerry and Trent, and that was part of the "stop Barkley" game plan.  Curious to know if this was true...?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

True count was the same, but the point was that Phillips snaps were with the other starters in the 2nd half at the expense of Star.

 

I would guess them being down by two scores for a lot of the 2nd half and them forced to pass more...I would say that had something to do with it but who knows.

[SCBills]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well Star only had one less snap this week than he had last week.  Right now Oliver is dominating with snaps.

 

I'm surprised with Jordan Phillips in the mid to low 20's percent.

 

Looks like our core DT rotation is Oliver/Star/Harrison Phillips.  

 

Jordan Phillips is more a penetrating, pass rush DT, correct?   It seems after the first drive, all hands on deck, and all schemes, were directed towards making sure Barkley wouldn't beat us.

[elijah]

20 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So per the comments in the Athletic article about H Phillips taking snaps away from Star and playing with the "1's " in the 2nd half, anyone know what would be the cap hit on Star if they cut him after this year?

This year is a touch early too cut Star and we’d still incur a good bit of dead cap. 

 

However if his snaps continue to decline and he becomes blatantly useless, the Bills can cut him at the conclusion of the 2020 season (next year) and only bring on $5.2M in dead cap and void the last two years of his contract.  Looking a little far into the future right now, but this scenario would not surprise me one bit as of right now. 

[Watkins101]

24 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

The reduced snaps for Singletary (48 to 25) and his low number of touches in this game was a head scratcher. Given that there is a big drop off in production in offensive skill positions after Brown and Beasley, you would think they would want to get the ball into the hands of another natural playmaker more. I don't think there is any question that Singletary has that natural playmaking ability. 

 

I really love what they are doing on offense and this would be my only real question mark so far.

He did get hurt, I realize that was late in the game, but would have some of an impact. One theory is that they are saving him so that there isnt an abundance of game film on him, making it easier for coaches to stop him. Saving him for the pats game if you will. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I would guess them being down by two scores for a lot of the 2nd half and them forced to pass more...I would say that had something to do with it but who knows.

 

So the just of the article was " Hmmmmm.... this is interesting, was it a fluke, or is this something to watch going forward"

[MDH]

33 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

The reduced snaps for Singletary (48 to 25) and his low number of touches in this game was a head scratcher. Given that there is a big drop off in production in offensive skill positions after Brown and Beasley, you would think they would want to get the ball into the hands of another natural playmaker more. I don't think there is any question that Singletary has that natural playmaking ability. 

 

I really love what they are doing on offense and this would be my only real question mark so far.

 

Their use of Singletary kinda reminds me of how the Saints used Kamara his rookie year. I don't think it's anything to get up in arms about. In fact, their judicious use of him is likely what leads to his ultra-productivity. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by MDH

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Jordan Phillips is more a penetrating, pass rush DT, correct?   It seems after the first drive, all hands on deck, and all schemes, were directed towards making sure Barkley wouldn't beat us.

 

Jordan can play both.  I noticed in some pass rush packages, Lorax and J. Phillips in the middle.  

Our second team DT rotation that I generally see both Phillips out there most of the time.  I'm not sure who plays 1 or the 3 in that case.

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I see you are still on your Star crusade.

 

He's still getting snaps and not deactivated like you suggested was a possibility a month ago.  

 

Until I we see significant snaps reduced, I think he's doing at least adequately.  McDermott isn't going to continue to play him if he's as bad as you say he is.

Let see what happens this next week.

 

 

Why do you think he didn't sniff a tackle yesterday but Harrison Phillips had 3 and a PD in the same amount of snaps?  

 

Harrison Phillips isn't a world beater but he makes the plays that are presented to him...........there is a minimum amount of athleticism and agility required at the position and I think Star has graduated to black hole status.  

 

[VW82]

I mentioned this after week one but it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Singletary’s snap count went down in favour of Gore. The discrepancy between those two in pass protection is glaring. Frank might be better than Fred Jackson. Watch Gore in JA’s sweep right for the TD. He’s basically playing FB.

 

I wouldn’t go so far as say Singletary is a train wreck on passing plays but he’s definitely looked like a rookie so far (especially in preseason) in that regard. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by VW82

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why do you think he didn't sniff a tackle yesterday but Harrison Phillips had 3 and a PD in the same amount of snaps?  

 

Harrison Phillips isn't a world beater but he makes the plays that are presented to him...........there is a minimum amount of athleticism and agility required at the position and I think Star has graduated to black hole status.  

 

 

Well then we should see a significant decrease in his snaps next week then right? 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well then we should see a significant decrease in his snaps next week then right? 

 

 

 

Not unless they elevate Vincent Taylor or Eddie Yarbrough..........which is a possibility because Star was THAT bad the last two games and they may want to get Shaq some snaps inside against Cinci's heavy pass attack.

 

Last year Star was rotated off the field if the opponent was going to throw the ball.......like the Minnesota game when they got a lead.......this year they can't hide him.........he's more of a liability against the run than the pass this year because at least against the pass Poyer and Hyde aren't being asked to come up and solo tackle 230# RB's. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not unless they elevate Vincent Taylor or Eddie Yarbrough..........which is a possibility because Star was THAT bad the last two games and they may want to get Shaq some snaps inside against Cinci's heavy pass attack.

 

Last year Star was rotated off the field if the opponent was going to throw the ball.......like the Minnesota game when they got a lead.......this year they can't hide him.........he's more of a liability against the run than the pass this year because at least against the pass Poyer and Hyde aren't being asked to come up and solo tackle 230# RB's. 

 

Well if he's as bad as you say he is, McDermott will have no choice.  So I expect Star to have his playing time decreased significantly starting this week....or even deactivated.

I guess we will find out this coming Sunday.

[Virgil]

48 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So per the comments in the Athletic article about H Phillips taking snaps away from Star and playing with the "1's " in the 2nd half, anyone know what would be the cap hit on Star if they cut him after this year?

 

I thought about mentioning Harrison in my recap, because he definitely seemed to be out there more and making a difference.  

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

He did get hurt, I realize that was late in the game, but would have some of an impact. One theory is that they are saving him so that there isnt an abundance of game film on him, making it easier for coaches to stop him. Saving him for the pats game if you will. 

 

Yeah, his injury was at the end of the fourth quarter. However, he only had three carries going into the fourth.  It would be nice if he had a big game vs the Pats.

 

11 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

Their use of Singletary kinda reminds me of how the Saints used Kamara his rookie year. I don't think it's anything to get up in arms about. In fact, their judicious use of him is likely what leads to his ultra-productivity. 

 

It is similar; however, the Saints also had more playmakers on that offense. I certainly am not terribly concerned about it. They are clearly moving the ball on offense. I just felt he would have had a few more touches throughout the game - particularly in that third quarter when the offense was struggling a bit.

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well if he's as bad as you say he is, McDermott will have no choice.  So I expect Star to have his playing time decreased significantly starting this week....or even deactivated.

I guess we will find out this coming Sunday.

 

 

So Frank Gore getting more snaps means to you that he's been better than Singletary(despite a vast difference in production)?

 

Ford getting more snaps means to you that he's better than Nsekhe(even though 5 of 6 TD's scored have been on drives with Nsekhe at RT)?

 

It's possible that snaps don't tell the story you think they do with this team.

 

 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So Frank Gore getting more snaps means to you that he's been better than Singletary(despite a vast difference in production)?

 

Ford getting more snaps means to you that he's better than Nsekhe(even though 5 of 6 TD's scored have been on drives with Nsekhe at RT)?

 

It's possible that snaps don't tell the story you think they do with this team.

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that the one consistent value that Star brings to the table is that he can consume snaps up front for a team that loves to rotate interior players.

 

It's nowhere near enough value to consider him worthy of his role (let alone his salary), but at least he keeps Eddie O and the Phillips brothers fresh.

[MR8]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So per the comments in the Athletic article about H Phillips taking snaps away from Star and playing with the "1's " in the 2nd half, anyone know what would be the cap hit on Star if they cut him after this year?

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills/

 

The best resource out there... Spotrac is great too with awesome articles, but I find Over the Cap to be better for straight up numbers...

 

To cut and past for people who cant look at work:

 

Current Contract

 (?: indicates contract trigger occuring during that year)

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus	Per Game Roster Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$29,900,000	$13,000,000	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$1,100,000		$11,650,000		$50,000,000
2018	29	$3,500,000	$2,600,000	$0	$500,000	$100,000		$3,500,000		$6,700,000	3.8%
2019 ?	30	$7,150,000	$2,600,000	$1,000,000	$500,000	$250,000		$8,150,000		$11,500,000	6.1%		$18,550,000	($7,050,000)
2020 ?	31	$6,250,000	$2,600,000	$500,000	$500,000	$250,000		$0		$10,100,000	5.1%		$7,800,000	$2,300,000
2021 ?	32	$6,500,000	$2,600,000	$1,000,000	$500,000	$250,000		$0		$10,850,000	--		$5,200,000	$5,650,000
2022 ?	33	$6,500,000	$2,600,000	$1,000,000	$500,000	$250,000		$0		$10,850,000	--		$2,600,000	$8,250,000

[TPS]

Found this on BR's site: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/9/16/20867762/snap-count-notes-buffalo-bills-at-new-york-giants

DJ went from 18% v the Jets to 37% against the Giants; Shaq went from 31% to 41%.  

 

While I'm thinking this was designed as a way to stop Barkley, it may also indicate growing confidence in both players, as well as keeping Jerry fresher in his "old age"...

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So Frank Gore getting more snaps means to you that he's been better than Singletary(despite a vast difference in production)?

 

Ford getting more snaps means to you that he's better than Nsekhe(even though 5 of 6 TD's scored have been on drives with Nsekhe at RT)?

 

It's possible that snaps don't tell the story you think they do with this team.

 

 

 

Singletary and Ford are both developing rookies.  

 

Harrison Phillips and Jordan Phillips aren't developing rookies.  

 

So now you've formulated an argument where you can be in a win win. 

 

If Stars snaps stay the same, "it's possible that snaps don't tell the story you think they do with this team".  Well then what will Baldo say if Star's snaps decrease?  Can I use the argument that snaps don't tell the story....?"  Or will you say "I was right".  

 

BTW...Ford has one more snap than Nsheke.

 

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/buffalo-bills-snap-counts

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, TPS said:

Found this on BR's site: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/9/16/20867762/snap-count-notes-buffalo-bills-at-new-york-giants

DJ went from 18% v the Jets to 37% against the Giants; Shaq went from 31% to 41%.  

 

While I'm thinking this was designed as a way to stop Barkley, it may also indicate growing confidence in both players, as well as keeping Jerry fresher in his "old age"...

 

I think it's definitely a combination of those two factors.  Shaq simply looks like a better player right now than he's been at any point in his career.

[TPS]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I think it's definitely a combination of those two factors.  Shaq simply looks like a better player right now than he's been at any point in his career.

I hope someone does an analysis of DJ's play as my indicator says he's done very well.  To my untrained eye, if I don't notice you making a bad play during the game, and I do notice you making a good play or two, then you must have done well.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

It's also worth noting that the one consistent value that Star brings to the table is that he can consume snaps up front for a team that loves to rotate interior players.

 

It's nowhere near enough value to consider him worthy of his role (let alone his salary), but at least he keeps Eddie O and the Phillips brothers fresh.

 

 

Yeah they literally can't de-activate him even though he's basically a flimsy traffic cone out there at this point.

 

I expected them to keep 9 DL because of how Star was trending down.......in which case they could de-activate him against a pass first team like Cinci and use Shaq inside..........but it's going to be 80+ degrees again on the field Sunday and they can't skimp on DL snaps.

 

Lotulelei was PARTICULARLY abused by the Patriots in those games last year............so I am hoping something will give by gameday in 2 weeks.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, TPS said:

I hope someone does an analysis of DJ's play as my indicator says he's done very well.  To my untrained eye, if I don't notice you making a bad play during the game, and I do notice you making a good play or two, then you must have done well.

 

Though it sounds simplistic, that's actually quite a fair way to grade if you aren't going to nerd it up with a pen and paper and watch the play over and over and over.

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah they literally can't de-activate him even though he's basically a flimsy traffic cone out there at this point.

 

I expected them to keep 9 DL because of how Star was trending down.......in which case they could de-activate him against a pass first team like Cinci and use Shaq inside..........but it's going to be 80+ degrees again on the field Sunday and they can't skimp on DL snaps.

 

Lotulelei was PARTICULARLY abused by the Patriots in those games last year............so I am hoping something will give by gameday in 2 weeks.

 

Maybe Oliver's development speeds along enough that Star gets enough 1-on-1 matchups against teams' worst interior player and can make some impact that way...I have my doubts though.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Singletary and Ford are both developing rookies.  

 

Harrison Phillips and Jordan Phillips aren't developing rookies.  

 

So now you've formulated an argument where you can be in a win win. 

 

If Stars snaps stay the same, "it's possible that snaps don't tell the story you think they do with this team".  Well then what will Baldo say if Star's snaps decrease?  Can I use the argument that snaps don't tell the story....?"  Or will you say "I was right".  

 

 

Here's a thought.............if you like football..........learn how to watch and understand it.........then form your own opinions.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Here's a thought.............if you like football..........learn how to watch and understand it.........then form your own opinions.

 

 

Can't answer the question huh?

[John from Riverside]

It was good to see Horrible Harry as a counted on player this past week......I really want him to work out

[TPS]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It was good to see Horrible Harry as a counted on player this past week......I really want him to work out

Yeah, the Bills are going to need Harry and Ed pushing that pocket in two Sundays, the known key to disrupting and beating Voldemort.  

 

I have a feeling Darryl Johnson's counts are going  to keep growing too....Look for him to make a game-changing play in the near future...

[BADOLBILZ]

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Can't answer the question huh?

 

 

If I must........YES if they de-activate Star I will say that it represents that they aren't impressed with his play.     You got me.  

 

Do you go thru EVERYTHING in your life worrying whether you are going to lose?    Stand for something.   Have your own take.   Learn to learn.

[dave mcbride]

43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Can't answer the question huh?

The thing about Star is that he has had only 10 solo tackles, one tackle for a loss, 0 QB hits, and 0 sacks in 18 games for the Bills. In his first season with Carolina, he had 34 solo tackles,  9 tackles for a loss, 4 QB hits, and 3 sacks. It was basically the same scheme too, so in an all-else-being-equal production comparison, I think that you can only conclude that what he's done in his time here is ... not impressive.  He just doesn't make any plays. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If I must........YES if they de-activate Star I will say that it represents that they aren't impressed with his play.     You got me.  

 

Do you go thru EVERYTHING in your life worrying whether you are going to lose?    Stand for something.   Have your own take.   Learn to learn.

 

I think you should take your own advice.  

 

All I have said is that once I see the snap counts significantly reduced, I’ll start believing more that he’s a bad as you say he is.  Same argument since August.  It seems you have a real problem with my wait and see approach...you want me to just agree with you and don’t like it if I don’t automatically.

 

I have my own take, I’ve clearly said multiple times that I don’t think he’s as bad as you make him out to be.  That doesn’t mean I think he’s great.  Thats literally my stance.

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The thing about Star is that he has had only 10 solo tackles, one tackle for a loss, 0 QB hits, and 0 sacks in 18 games for the Bills. In his first season with Carolina, he had 34 solo tackles,  9 tackles for a loss, 4 QB hits, and 3 sacks. It was basically the same scheme too, so in an all-else-being-equal production comparison, I think that you can only conclude that what he's done in his time here is ... not impressive.  He just doesn't make any plays. 

 

I understand his box score numbers.

I also know that he’s out there a lot.  Second most behind Oliver for snaps on this rotation.

 

He’s continually being sent out there as a starter.

If we see a noticeable difference in his PT, then I can acknowledge more that he’s just god awful.  He’s not going to be out there for the amount of snaps he’s getting if he’s that bad.  Let’s see if this week we start seeing his PT reduced.  If not, I will think he’s doing enough to keep playing, especially since we have younger talent behind him.