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Drunken Pygmy Goat

Any All-Pro Bills this year?

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I like Tre White, but the Bills' zone defense on the back end doesn't tend to lead to lots of recognition, compared to a shut down corner in man coverage.

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13 hours ago, TigerJ said:

I like Tre White, but the Bills' zone defense on the back end doesn't tend to lead to lots of recognition, compared to a shut down corner in man coverage.

 

For White to get the votes, I think it will depend on how opposing offenses plan to attack the Bills defense, and how the Bills utilize him this year.

 

White is probably better suited in man coverage, but he's good in zone as well. The Bills do a good job of disguising coverages, and they seem to like cloud 3 coverages that appear to be cover 2 pre-snap. That is where Josh Norman excelled and earned first team All Pro in 2015 (under McDermott as DC). He's not a great man cover corner, but they often gave him press duties on the outside, where he would bait the QB into thinking he was going to continue to drop, only to break on throws to the flat. He only had 4 INTs that year, but 2 went for TDs (big factor in All-Pro corner votes), and he had like 20 passes defenses.

 

If Levi Wallace is the #2, I think he'll be tasked with more zone coverages that give cushion to the WR, and that should give White more flexibilty, especially in cloud coverages. The way this defensive roster is constructed, McDermott/Frazier can really open up the playbook and can maximize it's potential. With Oliver up front, I think we'll see more double A gap pre-snap looks and blitzes with Edmunds and Milano/Alexander, which in theory will confuse QBs and force quicker throws, allowing players in coverage to break on routes. I was surprised to learn after creating this thread, just how often teams threw in White's direction last year, so perhaps he has a better chance than I originally thought.

Edited by Drunken Pygmy Goat

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2 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

For White to get the votes, I think it will depend on how opposing offenses plan to attack the Bills defense, and how the Bills utilize him this year.

 

White is probably better suited in man coverage, but he's good in zone as well. The Bills do a good job of disguising coverages, and they seem to like cloud 3 coverages that appear to be cover 2 pre-snap. That is where Josh Norman excelled and earned first team All Pro in 2015 (under McDermott as DC). He's not a great man cover corner, but they often gave him press duties on the outside, where he would bait the QB into thinking he was going to continue to drop, only to break on throws to the flat. He only had 4 INTs that year, but 2 went for TDs (big factor in All-Pro corner votes), and he had like 20 passes defenses.

 

If Levi Wallace is the #2, I think he'll be tasked with more zone coverages that give cushion to the WR, and that should give White more flexibilty, especially in cloud coverages. The way this defensive roster is constructed, McDermott/Frazier can really open up the playbook and can maximize it's potential. With Oliver up front, I think we'll see more double A gap pre-snap looks and blitzes with Edmunds and Milano/Alexander, which in theory will confuse QBs and force quicker throws, allowing players in coverage to break on routes. I was surprised to learn after creating this thread, just how often teams threw in White's direction last year, so perhaps he has a better chance than I originally thought.

Ironically, when Tre White came out of LSU, he was said to be a good zone coverage CB whose man skills were suspect.

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I think when you look at All-Pro status you have to consider the player but also the competition.  There is no small market bias. But there is a winner/loser bias. A great player on a losing team may not get his due. If the Bills win and they have a great season by a player he will get recognized. 

I think competition at safety is too good in AFC for Hyde or Poyer to make it unless one of them has a high INT total.

My top candidates based on performance potential and competition in order would be:

1. Hughes - who are the other dominant pass rushers in the AFC?  Myles Garrett and who else?

2. Edmunds - is there an elite middle linebacker in AFC?

3. White - he is as good as any, but I wonder how often he will be tested. I favor using him in a matchup man-zone scheme where he takes the opponent #1. That would get him national recognition.  I think McD and Frazier did some of this last year but not frequently. 

4. Dawkins - agree with others. He could make a big step forward in a contract year. He will need Allen to perform well to be recognized I think. But again, is there an elite LT in the AFC like Joe Thomas? No. It is an open competition. 

 

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1 minute ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Five games in, Hyde, Edmunds, and White all have a decent chance. Maybe Morse and Milano get some votes.

If we keep winning games then guys will get recognized. The ole cause-and-effect principle. :thumbsup:

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I think as of last week Hyde was PFF’s highest rated safety on the season. 

 

The way these guys play team defense I don’t know if anyone is gonna garner a bunch of individual attention. 

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How about this unexpected name.....Feliciano at guard?

 

I would be surprised if we don’t have at least one guy from the secondary.  All 4 regular starters are playing great.  

Edited by Royale with Cheese
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Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

How about this unexpected name.....Feliciano at guard?

 

I would be surprised if we don’t have at least one guy from the secondary.  All 4 regular starters are playing great.  


Hard to get a guard on the AP team with all of the competition.  But Mongo has been our best lineman IMO.

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On 8/28/2019 at 8:08 AM, ScottLaw said:

Mario Williams.

 

The guy who didn't live up to his contract.😃

 

The first three years were good, the last two, not so much.

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Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The first three years were good, the last two, not so much.

Well, Mario never was much good in coverage.

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1 minute ago, mannc said:

Well, Mario never was much good in coverage.

 

Rex Ryan, Jesus!  Dick LeBeau he ain't!

Edited by Freddie's Dead

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14 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I think as of last week Hyde was PFF’s highest rated safety on the season. 

 

The way these guys play team defense I don’t know if anyone is gonna garner a bunch of individual attention. 

 

That was brought up on WGR this morning (which is why I bumped the thread). The stats might not be eye popping right now, and it's a real team effort and 1/11 mentality, but there are still a couple weak teams on the schedule that could boost them. Hyde and White do have a couple INTs between them, and Hyde a FF. 

 

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The only one who has a chance is Hyde. We could have a few pro bowlers though.

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16 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The first three years were good, the last two, not so much.

I think you mean his last one.

 

He was an all pro in 2014. His last year here was 2015.

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17 minutes ago, mannc said:

Well, Mario never was much good in coverage.

 

To be fair, we've dropped linemen into zone coverage a few times this year as well, but our coverage disguises are so much better with McDermott and Frazier.

 

That being said, Mario was a very good pass rusher, and putting him into coverage takes him away from what he does best and puts him in a position where he isn't nearly as effective.

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4 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

To be fair, we've dropped linemen into zone coverage a few times this year as well, but our coverage disguises are so much better with McDermott and Frazier.

 

That being said, Mario was a very good pass rusher, and putting him into coverage takes him away from what he does best and puts him in a position where he isn't nearly as effective.

4 out of 5 good to great years here... guy was well worth the money. Still don't understand the hate for him.

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10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

4 out of 5 good to great years here... guy was well worth the money. Still don't understand the hate for him.

 

1st year wasn't "great" IMO, but it waa fresh off a monster deal and expectation were through the roof, and IIRC he was dealing with a hand injury most of the year.

 

But I agree, he was worth it. Huge GW play against GB, owning Tannehill, and chasing down Vick from behind stick out to me (aside from simply mentioning his play and stats).

Edited by Drunken Pygmy Goat

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On 8/28/2019 at 9:44 AM, row_33 said:

 

this doesn't count if they were the 6th choice for Pro Bowl and the first to accept the invite?

 

Pro Bowl has nothing to do with All Pro.   Pro bowl is a joke

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22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think you mean his last one.

 

He was an all pro in 2014. His last year here was 2015.

 

I stand corrected, his first three years he earned the contract, his fourth and last year here, not so much.  The fact that Rex was the coach in 2015 was just a coincidence...

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