Jeffrey Epstein Arrested, DEAD in apparent suicide 8/10/19. Epstein Handler Maxwell arrested/denied bail.

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He broke his own neck? 

  Doubt it.  As has been mentioned any clothes and bedsheets provided to Epstein in his cell have virtually no weight bearing capability so hanging would very unlikely do what he wanted it to do.  Sure, he could use a broke off finger nail to slit himself or ram his head into the wall but we are not talking about bleeding to death or death by blunt force trauma.  Still has not been proven that the corpse is Epstein.  

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Doubt it.  As has been mentioned any clothes and bedsheets provided to Epstein in his cell have virtually no weight bearing capability so hanging would very unlikely do what he wanted it to do.  Sure, he could use a broke off finger nail to slit himself or ram his head into the wall but we are not talking about bleeding to death or death by blunt force trauma.  Still has not been proven that the corpse is Epstein.  

Dude the special clothes and sheets were for prisoners on suicide watch.  Epstein was off suicide watch. This information is easy to find.

 

Those bones are broken both by hanging and strangulation, although less frequently in hanging.

 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

Dude the special clothes and sheets were for prisoners on suicide watch.  Epstein was off suicide watch. This information is easy to find.

 

Those bones are broken both by hanging and strangulation, although less frequently in hanging.

 

  Show me chapter and verse where it says a prisoner's clothing and bedding issue change when off watch.  The most I have seen in regards to going off suicide watch is monitoring the prisoner.  Just because a prisoner is off watch does not mean he gets his country club PJ's and bedding to use.  Don't tell me to go find it.  You want to make a point so give me a link as it pertains to that facility.  Not some line about in most cases................................

[B-Man]

 

 

"Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said.... The office of New York City’s chief medical examiner, Barbara Sampson, completed an autopsy of Epstein’s body Sunday.... The hyoid bone played a central role in a heated dispute last year over another high-profile death in New York, that of Eric Garner. A New York police officer was accused of using an improper chokehold while trying to arrest Garner and of causing his death. A police officers’ association claimed that an autopsy from Sampson’s office found there was no break of Garner’s hyoid bone

 

From "Autopsy finds broken bones in Jeffrey Epstein’s neck, deepening questions around his death" (WaPo).

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

I thought he strangled himself, which is different from hanging. That's what makes a broken bone seem strange, but who knows what a person determined to off themself is capable of. Just seems strange 

[RochesterRob]

Just now, Tiberius said:

I thought he strangled himself, which is different from hanging. That's what makes a broken bone seem strange, but who knows what a person determined to off themself is capable of. Just seems strange 

  Seems improbable that a 66 year old man in at best average health could do that.  Cut off air, yes.  But to create sufficient force to break a bone?  I have my doubts.

[Buffalo_Gal]

This may be known to all of you, but I missed it:

Fortune article:

</snip>

Vanity Fair also said that the handful of friends who have known Epstein since the early 1980s remember him telling them he was a "bounty hunter," recovering lost or stolen money for the government or wealthy people. He also had a license to carry a gun. He also sat on several commissions including the Council on Foreign Relations, the New York Academy of Sciences, and the Institute of International Education.

</snip>
 

 

[4merper4mer]

18 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Show me chapter and verse where it says a prisoner's clothing and bedding issue change when off watch.  The most I have seen in regards to going off suicide watch is monitoring the prisoner.  Just because a prisoner is off watch does not mean he gets his country club PJ's and bedding to use.  Don't tell me to go find it.  You want to make a point so give me a link as it pertains to that facility.  Not some line about in most cases................................

Lol you are making leaps in logic, not me.  Every article I've read said "prisoners on suicide watch get......".  This certainly implies that those not on suicide watch did not have those things.  There is nowhere for me to point you to other than "every article written about it".  There was no indication that once a prisoner was off the list that he would keep the suicide sheets.  Your assumptions are the leap.

[Tiberius]

14 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Is it too much to ask for that when these prisoners such as Epstein come through the facility is not run like the Mayberry jail when Andy is out of town?

Reminds me more of the Dallas police in 1963

[row_33]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Dude the special clothes and sheets were for prisoners on suicide watch.  Epstein was off suicide watch. This information is easy to find.

 

Those bones are broken both by hanging and strangulation, although less frequently in hanging.

 

 

I thought you needed a drop to break bones. 

 

An official hanging is death by broken neck from the drop

 

Asphyxiation is done without a drop strong enough to break the neck.

 

 

[Paulus]

 

This picture really says a lot about the arrogance of Epstein. This isn't weird. This is Epstein telling people he owned Clinton. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just a word of warning -- the disinformation agents are pushing that the FBI discovered bones off the coast of Epstein's island. There's no source for this information, it stems from Sorcha Faal who writes fiction, not fact. While a discovery of this sort wouldn't be surprising, it WOULD be major news backed by actual sources/evidence. So keep your powder dry if you run across that kind of story in the next 24 hours.  

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[njbuff]

So, it looks like a murder now?

 

What a mess.

 

I was set at putting my money on gross incompetence. ?

 

 

[Cinga]

12 hours ago, Hedge said:

According to two people familiar with the autopsy findings that spoke to the Washington Post, Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones

 

Folks let's not focus everything on that hyoid bone. The report still says MULTIPLE BREAKS which is not possible to do to yourself I suspect unless you thrown yourself off of something.... 

[row_33]

Just now, Cinga said:

 

Folks let's not focus everything on that hyoid bone. The report still says MULTIPLE BREAKS which is not possible to do to yourself I suspect unless you thrown yourself off of something.... 

 

This could only happen if Fredo threw him down the stairs

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol you are making leaps in logic, not me.  Every article I've read said "prisoners on suicide watch get......".  This certainly implies that those not on suicide watch did not have those things.  There is nowhere for me to point you to other than "every article written about it".  There was no indication that once a prisoner was off the list that he would keep the suicide sheets.  Your assumptions are the leap.

  "Every article I've read....." is not the same as knowing the policy at that particular facility.  We are not talking some street level felon but was the highest profile inmate possible for such a facility.  More precaution is taken than what is ordinary.  

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Reminds me more of the Dallas police in 1963

  Yeah, but that was more or less the first rodeo for dealing with an offender of national status in a non-military prison situation.  The Epstein episode makes the antics that happened at the Gotham State Penitentiary (1960's Batman) look like semi-competent law enforcement work.  Is El Chapo escaping via a giant spring placed under the pitcher's mound into a circling helicopter?

Edited August 15, 2019 by RochesterRob

[Tiberius]

Quote

The office of New York City’s chief medical examiner, Barbara Sampson, completed an autopsy of Epstein’s body Sunday. But Sampson listed the cause of his death as pending.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html

?

[ALF]

Taking him off suicide watch defies common sense . The serious under staffing another big problem.

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

 

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  "Every article I've read....." is not the same as knowing the policy at that particular facility.  We are not talking some street level felon but was the highest profile inmate possible for such a facility.  More precaution is taken than what is ordinary.  

Either extra precaution was taken or it wasn't.  All of your conspiracy stuff assumes it was.  

 

I agree that it should have been, but to just assume that it was is not based in anything factual.  It is very possible that he could have had normal sheets back and hung himself with them.

56 minutes ago, ALF said:

Taking him off suicide watch defies common sense . The serious under staffing another big problem.

I agree; especially with the first part.

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Taking him off suicide watch defies common sense . The serious under staffing another big problem.

  This needs to be dealt with ASAP by Barr.  I don't want to see Maxwell if charged head down the same path.  Barr needs to see if it is within his authority to utilize a facility such as Leavenworth for "the next time."

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  This needs to be dealt with ASAP by Barr.  I don't want to see Maxwell if charged head down the same path.  Barr needs to see if it is within his authority to utilize a facility such as Leavenworth for "the next time."

 

Or... instead of Leavenworth, perhaps: 

 

************************

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-moguls-jeffrey-epstein-connected-bill-gates-elon-musk-2019-8

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Or... instead of Leavenworth, perhaps: 

  Any place where a serious error or criminal misconduct is dealt with via court martial.

[DC Tom]

11 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  This needs to be dealt with ASAP by Barr.  I don't want to see Maxwell if charged head down the same path.  Barr needs to see if it is within his authority to utilize a facility such as Leavenworth for "the next time."

 

Detain her - any civilian - in the US Army Disciplinary Barracks, and she'll never testify, because the case will get tied up for years on Constitutional appeals.

[RochesterRob]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Detain her - any civilian - in the US Army Disciplinary Barracks, and she'll never testify, because the case will get tied up for years on Constitutional appeals.

  Then deploy a platoon to Manhattan to "assist" watching Maxwell or whoever else gets charged in this.  As it stands their lives are not worth a penny based on what we just saw.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[RochesterRob]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

  I guess that the Feds are going to have fun chipping out any new patches of concrete looking for evidence.  

[Tiberius]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  I guess that the Feds are going to have fun chipping out any new patches of concrete looking for evidence.  

They can use radar and sonar to search that. I saw so myself on Forensic Files! ?

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

They can use radar and sonar to search that. I saw so myself on Forensic Files! ?

  The bondage bench complete with concrete stains will have more impact if sitting in the courtroom as an exhibit versus a picture.

[TPS]

This is interesting....Sacha Baron Cohen almost exposing pedophile ring...but FBI decides not to act...hmmm...

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/sacha-baron-cohen-vegas-pedophile-ring

 

[4merper4mer]

34 minutes ago, TPS said:

This is interesting....Sacha Baron Cohen almost exposing pedophile ring...but FBI decides not to act...hmmm...

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/sacha-baron-cohen-vegas-pedophile-ring

 

Whoa

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

To me, the most fascinating thing about this story is that you can express ship a cement truck.  That some sort of Amazon Prime perk?  "Alexa, buy a cement truck."  "Okay.  Do you want it tomorrow?"

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, ALF said:

Taking him off suicide watch defies common sense . The serious under staffing another big problem.

The psychologist who cleared him has some questions to answer.  Accused pedophiles are the most likely to commit suicide when first incarcerated.  I'm assuming there were psychological evaluation logs.  Incompetence with the guards and the warden doesn't surprise me in the least.  

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The psychologist who cleared him has some questions to answer.  Accused pedophiles are the most likely to commit suicide when first incarcerated.  I'm assuming there were psychological evaluation logs.  Incompetence with the guards and the warden doesn't surprise me in the least.  

  Supposedly, Epstein's attorneys had something to do with this.  Assuming that they in fact had legal standing to do so or filed a motion with a federal judge.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The psychologist who cleared him has some questions to answer.  Accused pedophiles are the most likely to commit suicide when first incarcerated.  I'm assuming there were psychological evaluation logs.  Incompetence with the guards and the warden doesn't surprise me in the least.  

 

....interesting...lawyers override the psychiatrist?................

 

By Joshua Nelson | Fox News

Epstein was placed on suicide watch in late July after being found semiconscious with bruisings on his neck. His lawyers requested that he be removed from suicide watch because he showed a hopeful attitude. The convicted sex offender was then put under "special observation," a less restrictive watch, and was moved to another cell with a new cellmate.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

This is interesting....Sacha Baron Cohen almost exposing pedophile ring...but FBI decides not to act...hmmm...

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/sacha-baron-cohen-vegas-pedophile-ring

 

 

Yup. This was discussed heavily at the time it first came out. It’s systemic. 

[Tiberius]

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....interesting...lawyers override the psychiatrist?................

 

By Joshua Nelson | Fox News

Epstein was placed on suicide watch in late July after being found semiconscious with bruisings on his neck. His lawyers requested that he be removed from suicide watch because he showed a hopeful attitude. The convicted sex offender was then put under "special observation," a less restrictive watch, and was moved to another cell with a new cellmate.

"I'm hopefully I'll be successful next time," he was quoted saying after surviving his first suicide attempt

[Hedge]

Posting for the 2nd tweet/article link. A take from a former BOP worker:

 

 

Quote

“When in SHU, other than the orange dress and a few other restrictions, prisoners would be issued a standard cotton sheet. This would be different if a prisoner were on suicide watch, but it was reported that Epstein was removed from suicide watch, so he would have had a standard bedsheet”.

...

We then moved on to talk about the cameras, the sleeping, the stories about officers from other positions filling in that night, and the rest of the staffing irregularities. Lyon informed us on surveillance inside in the prison. “Because of budget shortfalls, it wouldn’t be uncommon for the camera systems to malfunction, however I don’t think that was the case here. Because of a law called PREA (Prison Rape Elimination Act) we are prohibited by law from filming inside of a cell. So, the only cameras would be in the hallways. If the reporting about the guards being asleep is correct, along with the reporting about the logs being falsified, the only way that they would know that at BOP is because they were able to view functioning hallway cameras, and noticed these officers didn’t do their rounds.”

...

“In addition, I wanted to dispel a little bit of the speculation regarding the reporting that the people on shift that night weren’t titled as true corrections officers. Every single employee in a BOP facility is trained as a corrections officer. This means that every employee in the BOP is trained to do what these guards were doing. Some come in and start as a guard and get reassigned to another job function, and some come in with another function and are assigned to guard, but all BOP employees are trained first to do the job these officers were doing in the Epstein case”

...

Fully speculating on my own part, it could be he wanted to be moved. He expected those guards to be walking by at a certain time, he tried to time his attempt with when they walked by, and they never walked by and then he was SOL. But everything they have told us so far is completely plausible from my experience”.

 

(Without researching it, the part about the Prison Rape Elimination Act being the reason for not allowing to film inside a cell was a head scratcher.)