ESPN's "Future Power Rankings"

[NoSaint]

29 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I think that Allen's faults, and limitations, and the things he needs to improve upon are fairly well established, and agreed upon. There are only a few posters on here who genuinely seem to want him gone, and one in particular who will willfully misrepresent stats, and plays to push that agenda. But, in general, even the people on here who are especially wary of his limitations, and doubt his ability to become a franchise QB, are willing to see him play out, and are hopeful that he succeeds.

 

To call Allen "polarizing" seems crazy to me. Tyrod was polarizing. Peterman, and EJ Manuel were polarizing. There were people who were hard-core fans of those guys, and people who wanted them GONE. 

 

I’d agree polarizing is hyperbole but he’s anything but settled. If he’s 2-6 and 52% completions with pretty even TD:int in October, it’ll get pretty polarized quickly.

[Rocket94]

5 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

Sorry to say, but you are right. The Bills have to win consistently again to be considered.

ESPN and others are just calling it as they see it. They are probably basing it on tendencies and patterns of the Bills performance in recent years. No big surprise.

[njbuff]

Can't wait till the season starts so I don't have to read about this nonsense.

[C.Biscuit97]

18 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Just out of curiosity...and I truly mean this...are you a Bills fan?  Or a passer-by fan of another team?  Either way it's totally cool but I honestly haven't been able to get a read on whether you are a Bills  fan or someone who just posts here due to proximity to the team or something (i.e. living in the area maybe).

 

Again, no issues either way but just trying to get a sense for whether you are a Bills fan or a casual passer by.

Calling people nerds seems a little harsh.  Just because someone doesnt agree with your take doesnt mean they are a nerd (or insert other negative attack).  Please try to be more respectful to other posters.

You’re right. Nerds are smart.  I apologize to nerds. 

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, GreggTX said:

 

How are we ranked higher than Jacksonville and the 49'ers? I'd put us ahead of Oakland, though. For the most part, this is a fair assessment, but it never turns out quite how you expected. Unless something changes drastically, this team has no elite talent yet. Most of the FA's we signed are depth and the ones that are slated to start are average starters or a tad above avg for an NFL starter. I'd say Oliver is the only one likely to become elite. Maybe another rookie will surprise (Singletary?). I feel sorry for those who are expecting 10 wins or more. They will be disappointed yet again.

 

Oh, don't be such a hater!!!   Of course the Bills are going to win 10 games ... the true Billievers on TSW guarantee it because McDermott and Beane walk on water .... and Brady and NE have to start demonstrating their incompetence some season.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I predict the world is going to end next week, does that mean it's happening?

 

that's what I thought...

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Just out of curiosity...and I truly mean this...are you a Bills fan?  Or a passer-by fan of another team?  Either way it's totally cool but I honestly haven't been able to get a read on whether you are a Bills  fan or someone who just posts here due to proximity to the team or something (i.e. living in the area maybe).

 

Again, no issues either way but just trying to get a sense for whether you are a Bills fan or a casual passer by.

 

I've been a Bills fan since 1963 when my dad took me to a Bills game in the Old Rockpile.  I was a season ticket holder for a while --- until the Bills gave Dick Jauron an extension for 2009.   Watching the team I love suck for the last twenty years while so many other teams have won big time, slid down down, and re-emerged as winners again -- sometimes doing this process more than once -- over the last twenty years has made me very skeptical of the motivation of the Bills owners and the competence of the "football people" they hire.

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

What jumps out at me is that yes the Patriots are at the top but the Jets and Dolphins are at the bottom...which means the Bills should get out of their division at 4-2. Most teams would take that in a heartbeat. Then you take your chances against the rest of the league. What’s my point? I find it hard to believe that the AFCE could have three teams consistently at the bottom especially with an aging Tom Brady to factor into the mix. It looks like a lazy list to me.

[Johnnycage46]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re right. Nerds are smart.  I apologize to nerds. 

Lol.  I guess nerds CAN be smart.  But it's not a rule.  I guess it's more that you think (or seem to think, based on your post) that those that disagree with ESPN are nerds.  Let's just say that ESPN has a certain political affiliation that has been well documented and anyone who doesn't agree with them is usually vilified.  So, like, ya know, maybe people should stop doing that

[PromoTheRobot]

23 hours ago, GreggTX said:

 

How are we ranked higher than Jacksonville and the 49'ers? I'd put us ahead of Oakland, though. For the most part, this is a fair assessment, but it never turns out quite how you expected. Unless something changes drastically, this team has no elite talent yet. Most of the FA's we signed are depth and the ones that are slated to start are average starters or a tad above avg for an NFL starter. I'd say Oliver is the only one likely to become elite. Maybe another rookie will surprise (Singletary?). I feel sorry for those who are expecting 10 wins or more. They will be disappointed yet again.

 

So Tre, Poyer, Hyde, Hughes or Shady aren't elite?

Edited July 21, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

17 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I've been a Bills fan since 1963 when my dad took me to a Bills game in the Old Rockpile.  I was a season ticket holder for a while --- until the Bills gave Dick Jauron an extension for 2009.   Watching the team I love suck for the last twenty years while so many other teams have won big time, slid down down, and re-emerged as winners again -- sometimes doing this process more than once -- over the last twenty years has made me very skeptical of the motivation of the Bills owners and the competence of the "football people" they hire.

poor fella

 

 

 

 

[VW82]

I’m not surprised by this ranking. You have a very polarizing young QB in Allen who needs to show a lot more than he has (and I think he will) to get the attention of writers covering the league. Beyond Allen we have exactly zero young studs on offense, rather a bunch of competent veterans and intriguing players looking to capitalize on a second or third chance.

 

On defense our two best players, Hughes and Lorax, are well into their 30s. Our safeties are already in their prime. We definitely have some young talent too in Edumunds and Oliver but they haven’t shown star potential on the field yet. 

 

I think the team is going to be better this year but any future ranking which looks at proven young stud blue chippers is going to rate the Bills poorly.

[Johnnycage46]

51 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I've been a Bills fan since 1963 when my dad took me to a Bills game in the Old Rockpile.  I was a season ticket holder for a while --- until the Bills gave Dick Jauron an extension for 2009.   Watching the team I love suck for the last twenty years while so many other teams have won big time, slid down down, and re-emerged as winners again -- sometimes doing this process more than once -- over the last twenty years has made me very skeptical of the motivation of the Bills owners and the competence of the "football people" they hire.

 

 

 

Fair enough.  Can't argue with that.  But, hey, this might be the year (I know, I know, it's basically the Bills' fan's mantra, but it could be lol)

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So Tre, Poyer, Hyde, Hughes or Shady aren't elite?

 This is a future ranking. Hughes and shady are on the wrong side of 30 as are the WRs we signed to help Allen. 

 

Pats are rated highly because despite their QBs age, They are a legitimate super bowl contender if not favorite if he’s around. One year (let alone 2 or 3) of that being the case should have more weight than anything else. 

[PromoTheRobot]

38 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 This is a future ranking. Hughes and shady are on the wrong side of 30 as are the WRs we signed to help Allen. 

 

Pats are rated highly because despite their QBs age, They are a legitimate super bowl contender if not favorite if he’s around. One year (let alone 2 or 3) of that being the case should have more weight than anything else. 

 

They're the favorites because they're the favorites. They are favorites by inertia. They are favorites because everyone drops to their knees at the mention of Brady and Belichick. McDermott is building a Patriot killer.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

They're the favorites because they're the favorites. They are favorites by inertia. They are favorites because everyone drops to their knees at the mention of Brady and Belichick. McDermott is building a Patriot killer.

 

Right-o.    0-4 against Brady and Belichick just screams 'a Patriot killer'.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Right-o.    0-4 against Brady and Belichick just screams 'a Patriot killer'.

something tells me you were smiling when you posted this.

 

bills fan, pffft!

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

4 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

something tells me you were smiling when you posted this.

 

bills fan, pffft!

 

Shouldn’t a Bills fan be upset that Brady/Belichick are nearly undefeated against Buffalo as opposed to confidently ignorant?

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

46 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Shouldn’t a Bills fan be upset that Brady/Belichick are nearly undefeated against Buffalo as opposed to confidently ignorant?

 

 

 

Isn't most of the NFL nearly winless against the Patriots?

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Right-o.    0-4 against Brady and Belichick just screams 'a Patriot killer'.

 

Yes Derek Anderson was QB plan #1 to take down the Pats. Brilliant analysis.

 

Besides I'm taking about the current team, in case that went over your head.

Edited July 21, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

30 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Isn't most of the NFL nearly winless against the Patriots?

 

 

Idk Adam Gase is 2-4

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Idk Adam Gase is 2-4

 

Ooh. Coach of the year.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Ooh. Coach of the year.

 

You used the term Patriot Killer to describe McDermott. He is 0-4 against them. I don't know what to tell you at this point you obviously don't like facts.

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

You used the term Patriot Killer to describe McDermott. He is 0-4 against them. I don't know what to tell you at this point you obviously don't like facts.

 

No. I said McDermott is building a Patriot killer NOW. As in after the Bills shed dead cap and signed players they want. To draft players to fit their scheme. You're the one who keeps looking at the last two seasons as proof of something. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

No. I said McDermott is building a Patriot killer NOW. As in after the Bills shed dead cap and signed players they want. To draft players to fit their scheme. You're the one who keeps looking at the last two seasons as proof of something. 

 

I’ll repeat myself since your not getting it. Having Brady/Belichick makes a Super Bowl possible. Whether that’s only next season or he plays to 45 like he wants to. That ALONE gives NE a brighter future no matter how long the timeline. 

[PromoTheRobot]

45 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

I’ll repeat myself since your not getting it. Having Brady/Belichick makes a Super Bowl possible. Whether that’s only next season or he plays to 45 like he wants to. That ALONE gives NE a brighter future no matter how long the timeline. 

 

Ha! I don't care who it is. Betting on Brady and Edelman and Bennett to not only last forever but play at a champion level is not analysis, it's group think. It's easy to always bet the winner until the bottom falls out. No one thought the Bills were any good in 1987 either.

Edited July 22, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

something tells me you were smiling when you posted this.

 

bills fan, pffft!

 

McDermott's teams haven't even been competitive with the Patriots.  In 2017, they were blown out 23-3 and 37-16.  In 2018 they lost the first game 25-6, and the second game, a deceiving 24-6, but NE was up 24-6 before the Bills scored a late TD with the game already decided.   That's a point differential of -72 with 3 of the losses by 19, 20, and 21 points.  What about this record suggests this team is likely to develop into a "Patriot killer" until Brady and Belichick ride off into the sunset? 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

McDermott's teams haven't even been competitive with the Patriots.  In 2017, they were blown out 23-3 and 37-16.  In 2018 they lost the first game 25-6, and the second game, a deceiving 24-6, but NE was up 24-6 before the Bills scored a late TD with the game already decided.   That's a point differential of -72 with 3 of the losses by 19, 20, and 21 points.  What about this record suggests this team is likely to develop into a "Patriot killer" until Brady and Belichick ride off into the sunset? 

 

 

 

STATS! 

 

So the fact that the Bills spent two years purging deadwood from the roster, in order to get to a point where actual team building can start, means nothing to you? You're seriously going to measure the future on the last two years? We have nothing more to discuss here. See you in the bandwagon later.

[teef]

people on a message board being a fan and defending the bills?!?!?  am i taking crazy pills?

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Yes Derek Anderson was QB plan #1 to take down the Pats. Brilliant analysis.

 

Who's fault is that????  The Bills traded away Taylor and then AJ McCarron in order to start Nate Peterman.   Then they wasted a month of the regular season waiting for Anderson to finish up his golf tournament after it became clear to just about everybody but McDermott -- as early as the first half of the season opener -- that Peterman wasn't an NFL QB.

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Who's fault is that????  The Bills traded away Taylor and then AJ McCarron in order to start Nate Peterman.   Then they wasted a month of the regular season waiting for Anderson to finish up his golf tournament after it became clear to just about everybody but McDermott -- as early as the first half of the season opener -- that Peterman wasn't an NFL QB.

 

You are still skirting the fact that the Bills were not in a position to do much better than Taylor, McCarron or Anderson at QB those first two years. A little matter of $50MM in dead cap. Maybe you read something about that.

 

You can keep throwing out meaningless stats of the last few years if you like, but the real McBeane regime starts this season. And this team is being designed to attack the one flaw in Brady's game: pressure up the middle. I also know that the Patriots key players are old. They are not the slam dunk favorites to me. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Didn't realize it takes 3 years until "team building" can commence.

 

Thanks for clearing it up. ???

 

It did in our case. Or did you expect a Super Bowl with $50MM in dead cap?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

as with practically all of the power ranking "forecasts"   I can say with extreme confidence that none of them have the Bills above 22. 

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You are still skirting the fact that the Bills were not in a position to do much better than Taylor, McCarron or Anderson at QB those first two years. A little matter of $50MM in dead cap. Maybe you read something about that.

 

You can keep throwing out meaningless stats of the last few years if you like, but the real McBeane regime starts this season. And this team is being designed to attack the one flaw in Brady's game: pressure up the middle. I also know that the Patriots key players are old. They are not the slam dunk favorites to me. 

 

Cry me a river for the Bills cap situation in 2018.  If the Bills organization -- from Pegula to Beane to McDermott -- was truly dedicated to building a winning team, they wouldn't have traded cap space for short term salary savings at the expense of wins, which is what they did in 2018.  Fifty million dollars in dead cap money means millions of dollars that the Bills didn't pay in actual salaries in 2018 -- and the Bills had one of the lowest actual team salary total in the league in 2018 because they traded away/released most of their higher paid players and filled their roster with too many non-NFL caliber players, many of them on rookie contracts so they were being paid peanuts.    The entire mess at QB last season was the result of the Bills trying to pinch pennies.  Tyrod Taylor isn't a starting caliber QB but he's more than adequate as a backup.   AJ McCarron didn't have Taylor's experience but he had shown himself decently in his limited regular season opportunities, which is much more than could ever been said for Nate Peterman.  Taylor's salary for 2018 was probably about $10 million, McCarron's about $3 million, and Peterman's about $700k.  The Bills took cap hits for trading away both Taylor and McCarron but saved millions in actual dollars by keeping Peterman.

 

This team is being built to play Jauron ball or Fox ball or Fisher ball -- play not to lose football -- featuring boring offenses and non-clutch defenses.  When the planets align perfectly, they have a winning season or even a playoff game but mostly they have excuses, even when they have good young QBs like Fox and Fisher had in Chicago and the Rams.

 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Didn't realize it takes 3 years until "team building" can commence.

 

Thanks for clearing it up. ???

 

Yeah, somebody obviously forgot to tell that to Howie Roseman and Les Snead. 

 

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It did in our case. Or did you expect a Super Bowl with $50MM in dead cap?

 

I don't expect a Super Bowl from Pegula, Beane, and McDermott at all.

 

I'm not sure how Pegula made his billions, but it doesn't seem likely that it was because he could identify people with "the right stuff".  In his 7 full years as Sabres owner, his teams have been sucked.  In his 5 full years as Bills owner, his teams have sucked except for one lucky season where the Bills squeaked into the playoffs before returning to their bottom-feeder ways.  Promoting Russ Brandon to head up both the Sabres and Bills sure paid off big in 2018.

 

Beane is a refugee from the Dave Gettleman regime in Carolina.  Gettleman does not seem to be a shining star among NFL GMs.   He inherited a decent Carolina team that he did get to the Super Bowl, but Carolina remains a feast or famine type team.  

 

McDermott is a defensive minded HC who doesn't know/care much about the offensive side of the ball, and that style is passe in today's NFL because it's not a formula for winning consistently in today's NFL.   Too many teams have high powered offenses that can score on almost any defense, and good enough defenses to easily stop mediocre offenses that aren't good in the Red Zone.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Cry me a river for the Bills cap situation in 2018.  If the Bills organization -- from Pegula to Beane to McDermott -- was truly dedicated to building a winning team, they wouldn't have traded cap space for short term salary savings at the expense of wins, which is what they did in 2018.  Fifty million dollars in dead cap money means millions of dollars that the Bills didn't pay in actual salaries in 2018 -- and the Bills had one of the lowest actual team salary total in the league in 2018 because they traded away/released most of their higher paid players and filled their roster with too many non-NFL caliber players, many of them on rookie contracts so they were being paid peanuts.    The entire mess at QB last season was the result of the Bills trying to pinch pennies.  Tyrod Taylor isn't a starting caliber QB but he's more than adequate as a backup.   AJ McCarron didn't have Taylor's experience but he had shown himself decently in his limited regular season opportunities, which is much more than could ever been said for Nate Peterman.  Taylor's salary for 2018 was probably about $10 million, McCarron's about $3 million, and Peterman's about $700k.  The Bills took cap hits for trading away both Taylor and McCarron but saved millions in actual dollars by keeping Peterman.

 

This team is being built to play Jauron ball or Fox ball or Fisher ball -- play not to lose football -- featuring boring offenses and non-clutch defenses.  When the planets align perfectly, they have a winning season or even a playoff game but mostly they have excuses, even when they have good young QBs like Fox and Fisher had in Chicago and the Rams.

 

 

Yeah, somebody obviously forgot to tell that to Howie Roseman and Les Snead. 

 

 

I don't expect a Super Bowl from Pegula, Beane, and McDermott at all.

 

I'm not sure how Pegula made his billions, but it doesn't seem likely that it was because he could identify people with "the right stuff".  In his 7 full years as Sabres owner, his teams have been sucked.  In his 5 full years as Bills owner, his teams have sucked except for one lucky season where the Bills squeaked into the playoffs before returning to their bottom-feeder ways.  Promoting Russ Brandon to head up both the Sabres and Bills sure paid off big in 2018.

 

Beane is a refugee from the Dave Gettleman regime in Carolina.  Gettleman does not seem to be a shining star among NFL GMs.   He inherited a decent Carolina team that he did get to the Super Bowl, but Carolina remains a feast or famine type team.  

 

McDermott is a defensive minded HC who doesn't know/care much about the offensive side of the ball, and that style is passe in today's NFL because it's not a formula for winning consistently in today's NFL.   Too many teams have high powered offenses that can score on almost any defense, and good enough defenses to easily stop mediocre offenses that aren't good in the Red Zone.

 

Sounds like you are pretty much checked out on the Bills (yet, ironically, still on TBD.)  Well, we'll see how things play out. I'll be cheering for the Bills, while you'll probably climb back on the bandwagon by week 11.

Edited July 22, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[ajgoff1286]

On 7/21/2019 at 6:31 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Isn't most of the NFL nearly winless against the Patriots?

 

Yes Derek Anderson was QB plan #1 to take down the Pats. Brilliant analysis.

 

Besides I'm taking about the current team, in case that went over your head.

I've felt that Alllen wins that game. Anderson was brutal that night

[Troll Toll]

Does anyone else feel kind of bad for the writers that are still saying they don’t think Allen will succeed? To have a year of film on the guy, watch him carry the offense with little help, and come away with the conclusion that he will fail... It boggles my mind. He is one of the most impressive QBs I’ve ever seen, we just need the talent level of the rest of the offense to catch up. Say what you will, but he turned an undrafted rookie receiver into one of the most productive in the NFL. He has actually gotten something out of fledgling Zay Jones.

[LSHMEAB]

On 7/21/2019 at 12:07 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So Tre, Poyer, Hyde, Hughes or Shady aren't elite?

I think Hyde is elite. I think Poyer is good. 

 

Just notice a trend where our safety tandem is linked at the hip and often viewed as one player. 

 

Hyde has virtually no weaknesses while Poyer has tackling issues and is out of position a little too often. Very good safety, but not as good as Hyde.

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, ajgoff1286 said:

I've felt that Alllen wins that game. Anderson was brutal that night

 

That game was another example of our D winning the game but the offense losing it. Jax playoff was another.

[Tenhigh]

On 7/21/2019 at 5:29 PM, SoTier said:

 

Right-o.    0-4 against Brady and Belichick just screams 'a Patriot killer'.

You must be a big hit at parties.  

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Sounds like you are pretty much checked out on the Bills (yet, ironically, still on TBD.)  Well, we'll see how things play out. I'll be cheering for the Bills, while you'll probably climb back on the bandwagon by week 11.

 

If you want to blindly buy what Pegula, Beane, and McDermott are selling, knock yourself out excusing their moves.    As I've posted several times on this board already, I'll be happy to eat crow if the Bills are successful, but I'll remain skeptical until they actually do win.

 

6 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

Does anyone else feel kind of bad for the writers that are still saying they don’t think Allen will succeed? To have a year of film on the guy, watch him carry the offense with little help, and come away with the conclusion that he will fail... It boggles my mind. He is one of the most impressive QBs I’ve ever seen, we just need the talent level of the rest of the offense to catch up. Say what you will, but he turned an undrafted rookie receiver into one of the most productive in the NFL. He has actually gotten something out of fledgling Zay Jones.

 

ROTFLMAO.  None of the 2018 first round rookie QBs has proven he's likely to be a successful  NFL QB except for maybe Mayfield.  Darnold, Allen, Rosen and Jackson all have to improve their games significantly just to get to be "competent NFL QBs", and there's no guarantees that any of the five will be still be NFL starting QBs in five years.