Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I can't speak to their lower first round pick but Cozens is doing well with 4 goals and 4 assists. I think he is going to be with the big club next year, and if not he will be there in two years. He is eventually going to be our second line center. 

https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/player.php?id=5965

In another year or two we are going to have a strong middle. I do like Mitts but I think that Cozens is eventually going to be our second line center with Mitts as our third center. The expectation is that Johansson will move back to the wing. 

Cozens actually has 8 goals, 6 assists in 10 games.

[JohnC]

The attached link is an article by Paul Hamilton for WGR based on an interview with the GM. The GM gives a lot of credit to the coach and a variety of other reasons why this year is different from last year. With respect to the often brought up issue of having so many defensemen the GM points out that it isn't a problem as much as it is an asset. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-botterill-credits-krueger-team-success

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The current GM has invested in stocking the system with talent and allowing it to develop. The previous GM, Murray, was more inclined to deal talent for immediate help. Giving up a first round pick for Lehner, a goalie that the Senators were probably not going to keep, was foolish. Lehner had a short stint with the Sabres and the traded pick could have been a forward who would have been ready to play on the second line. The more patient approach is the most proven and sustainable approach for success. You have to be happy with the way Botterill has run the operation.  

 

Buffalo was the only team that offered a 1st for Lehner. 

 

Everyone knew they Had To trade a goalie. They had 3 starting caliber goalies, none of which were waiver exempt. 

 

Peter Chiarelli (a terrible GM who’s made some of the worst trades in recent NHL history) was shopping for a starting goaltender that offseason, and he later said that he was unwilling to give up a 1st for Lehner. His offer topped out at a 2nd round pick. 

 

The picks we traded away in that 2015 draft still piss me off to this day. That was the deepest NHL draft since the historic 2003 draft. If you look at the players available at picks #21, 25 and 31, the Sabres could have been stacked for the next decade if they hit on those picks (and I know it’s not guaranteed that we would have). 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Buffalo was the only team that offered a 1st for Lehner. 

 

Everyone knew they Had To trade a goalie. They had 3 starting caliber goalies, none of which were waiver exempt. 

 

Peter Chiarelli (a terrible GM who’s made some of the worst trades in recent NHL history) was shopping for a starting goaltender that offseason, and he later said that he was unwilling to give up a 1st for Lehner. His offer topped out at a 2nd round pick. 

 

The picks we traded away in that 2015 draft still piss me off to this day. That was the deepest NHL draft since the historic 2003 draft. If you look at the players available at picks #21, 25 and 31, the Sabres could have been stacked for the next decade if they hit on those picks (and I know it’s not guaranteed that we would have). 

Murray had a goalie philosophy that favored size as one of the most important attributes for that particular position. So Lehner fit the profile of a goalie that he coveted. He also was a man in a hurry and wanted to make a big splash. He had a lot of chips at his disposal and ended up wastefully throwing them around with little thought and coherency. This franchise was in a pivotal position to take the next step forward. This blustery fool squandered his assets and instead of moving forward he set us back. At that time most hockey analysts believed that Buffalo was ahead of Toronto by a year or so in their development. Toronto made a lot of right decisions and we made a number of blunders. That stark reality was exhibited by their records. 

 

In my opinion Krueger and Botterill have meshing philosophies in how to build a successful organization. They don't look at a pro sport franchise as a collection of separate fragments. They envision it as a coherent organism where the pieces have to fit together. Both are analytical and thoughtful. Although they each have strong thoughts based on their backgrounds neither is an old school ideologue. They are open-minded and receptive to new ideas. I am deeply impressed with both of them. 

[bbb]

What is that asshat doing these days? 

[Doc]

45 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Murray had a goalie philosophy that favored size as one of the most important attributes for that particular position. So Lehner fit the profile of a goalie that he coveted. He also was a man in a hurry and wanted to make a big splash. He had a lot of chips at his disposal and ended up wastefully throwing them around with little thought and coherency. This franchise was in a pivotal position to take the next step forward. This blustery fool squandered his assets and instead of moving forward he set us back. At that time most hockey analysts believed that Buffalo was ahead of Toronto by a year or so in their development. Toronto made a lot of right decisions and we made a number of blunders. That stark reality was exhibited by their records. 

 

In my opinion Krueger and Botterill have meshing philosophies in how to build a successful organization. They don't look at a pro sport franchise as a collection of separate fragments. They envision it as a coherent organism where the pieces have to fit together. Both are analytical and thoughtful. Although they each have strong thoughts based on their backgrounds neither is an old school ideologue. They are open-minded and receptive to new ideas. I am deeply impressed with both of them. 

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, bbb said:

What is that asshat doing these days? 

Playing Halo.  ?

 

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Murray had a goalie philosophy that favored size as one of the most important attributes for that particular position. So Lehner fit the profile of a goalie that he coveted. He also was a man in a hurry and wanted to make a big splash. He had a lot of chips at his disposal and ended up wastefully throwing them around with little thought and coherency. This franchise was in a pivotal position to take the next step forward. This blustery fool squandered his assets and instead of moving forward he set us back. At that time most hockey analysts believed that Buffalo was ahead of Toronto by a year or so in their development. Toronto made a lot of right decisions and we made a number of blunders. That stark reality was exhibited by their records. 

 

In my opinion Krueger and Botterill have meshing philosophies in how to build a successful organization. They don't look at a pro sport franchise as a collection of separate fragments. They envision it as a coherent organism where the pieces have to fit together. Both are analytical and thoughtful. Although they each have strong thoughts based on their backgrounds neither is an old school ideologue. They are open-minded and receptive to new ideas. I am deeply impressed with both of them. 

 

I agree with everything you said. 

 

But Id like to add one thing to that “Buffalo was a year ahead of Toronto” narrative. 

 

When that was said, it was assumed that Toronto was going to do a complete tear down rebuild like Buffalo had done. But then they lucked into hiring Babcock and changed course. They went with a re-tool, keeping a number of key pieces. 

 

So they had a much smaller hole to dig themselves out of than Buffalo. The Sabres tore the team down to a level that isn’t seen very often. 

 

Im not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. I’m just saying it wasn’t as complete a tear down as our. Toronto made a lot of smart decisions (more of them than Buffalo did!).

 

There was definitely some luck involved too. They won the draft lottery in their only year finishing last and were also lucky that a true #1 franchise center like Auston Matthews was the prize. 

 

Hiring Babcock was also a huge boon to their rebuild. He came in and changed that culture pretty much on day 1. 

 

Had Toronto missed out on hiring Babcock and went with Guy Boucher instead (they almost did because they thought they were out on Babs, then apparently his wife said no to buffalo, or so the story goes...) and got Laine in the draft instead of Matthews, I wonder where they’d be at right now? Would Tavares have left the NYI for Toronto? Would they be a powerhouse? Doubtful. 

 

Again, I’m not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. There’s usually some luck involved in building a good team. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by BillsFan4

[BringBackFergy]

Sabres win...theeeeee Sabres win!!!

 

[Big C]

You guys seeing Sully and Jeremy White going at it on Twitter? Lol.

 

Love watching the Sabres this year. Feels very different from the hot start last year. 

 

Side note, I enjoy Biron's analysis.

[Boca BIlls]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

Are you being drinking?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Great OT period, thought they were going to blow it at the end of the 3rd. 
 

Great finish!!

[Bray Wyatt]

Mittlestadt with the hustle on the back check and then the awareness to turn around at the blue line and while in the retreat notice the line change and flip the pass up quick to risto, fantastic play

Edited October 23, 2019 by Bray Wyatt

[K-9]

Great game by two teams duking it out all night. Fun to watch. Nerve wracking, but fun none the less. The Sharks are a good team and we showed we can compete with them the last two games. This 8-1-1 streak is a helluva lot better than the 10 game winning streak last year. Nothing. Fluky. About. It. 

[JohnC]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Playing Halo.  ?

 

 

I agree with everything you said. 

 

But Id like to add one thing to that “Buffalo was a year ahead of Toronto” narrative. 

 

When that was said, it was assumed that Toronto was going to do a complete tear down rebuild like Buffalo had done. But then they lucked into hiring Babcock and changed course. They went with a re-tool, keeping a number of key pieces. 

 

So they had a much smaller hole to dig themselves out of than Buffalo. The Sabres tore the team down to a level that isn’t seen very often. 

 

Im not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. I’m just saying it wasn’t as complete a tear down as our. Toronto made a lot of smart decisions (more of them than Buffalo did!).

 

There was definitely some luck involved too. They won the draft lottery in their only year finishing last and were also lucky that a true #1 franchise center like Auston Matthews was the prize. 

 

Hiring Babcock was also a huge boon to their rebuild. He came in and changed that culture pretty much on day 1. 

 

Had Toronto missed out on hiring Babcock and went with Guy Boucher instead (they almost did because they thought they were out on Babs, then apparently his wife said no to buffalo, or so the story goes...) and got Laine in the draft instead of Matthews, I wonder where they’d be at right now? Would Tavares have left the NYI for Toronto? Would they be a powerhouse? Doubtful. 

 

Again, I’m not taking anything away from the leafs rebuild. There’s usually some luck involved in building a good team. 

Everything you said is astute. But I have a slightly different take. If the draft balls resulted in Toronto getting Laine instead of Matthews I still believe that they would be in the same position as they are in now. I would prefer having Matthews over Laine but the difference between them would not have altered the course that they are on now. The Babcock hire certainly was a franchise altering course just as the Krueger hire has altered our trajectory. But what has allowed these coaches to have their positive/influential effects is the good personnel decisions by the respective front offices that have given them the talent to work with and mold. 

.

You ask the question whether Tavares would have left the Islanders for the Maple Leafs if Babock was the coaching hire. You have to remember that Babock left Detroit for the primary reason that it was simply time for the organization and him to make a change. The coaching lifespan for the coach and the organization ran its extended course. There is nothing unusual about that. Babock selected Toronto because it was a good situation for him. He saw the possibilities working for an organization with unlimited resources. The bottom line is that the organization made a lot of good decisions that accelerated their rebuild even if their rebuild wasn't as dramatic as ours. 

 

My basic point in this discourse is that when an organization is smartly run with all the ups and downs and good fortune and bad fortune that it faces eventually things will turn out well. That's what happened with Toronto and more belatedly post Murray that is what is happening in Buffalo. 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Great game by two teams duking it out all night. Fun to watch. Nerve wracking, but fun none the less. The Sharks are a good team and we showed we can compete with them the last two games. This 8-1-1 streak is a helluva lot better than the 10 game winning streak last year. Nothing. Fluky. About. It. 

As you pointed out this was a great game to watch. As with most games there is an ebb and flow but in this game I can't remember where there was a lull in effort from either side. 

 

I agree with you that the Sharks are a good and tough team. I thought that although they were the physically stronger team our tenacity helped compensate for that physical deficit. 

 

After watching a number of games I have altered my position on a Risto trade. He is a workhorse and rugged defenseman on a team that has mostly finesse defensemen. It's apparent that the coach trusts them more than any other pairing when it needs stops more than offense. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

The Lehner life issue existed before he got to Buffalo. His lack of emotional on ice and off ice control were known by the hockey world. 

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

Mittlestadt with the hustle on the back check and then the awareness to turn around at the blue line and while in the retreat notice the line change and flip the pass up quick to risto, fantastic play

I thought Vesey played well on that line. Eventually he is going to break through that goalie wall and score. He had a number of near misses. The scoring may not be there right now but the effort certainly is there. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I thought Vesey played well on that line. Eventually he is going to break through that goalie wall and score. He had a number of near misses. The scoring may not be there right now but the effort certainly is there. 

I agree. Vesey is a much better positional player than I realized. Defensively responsible with good hockey sense from what I’ve seen so far. It’s only a matter of time before they start finding the back of the net. I’m hoping it’s Thursday against his old team. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I agree. Vesey is a much better positional player than I realized. Defensively responsible with good hockey sense from what I’ve seen so far. It’s only a matter of time before they start finding the back of the net. I’m hoping it’s Thursday against his old team. 

Johansson, Vesey, Miller and Joki were added to the roster for a minimal cost. Although none of these players fall into the elite category (Joki may eventually be a top tier player) they bolstered and added depth to a thin roster. The first three listed players added maturity and mental toughness to a team that was too fragile dealing with the rough periods. The GM performed exceptionally well this offseason adding talent and most importantly securing the right coach. 

[Nextmanup]

Just finished watching Ralph's postgame presser, focusing the entire time on only one thing: his nose.

 

It's really quite magnificent.

 

Still can't decide if our new "10 game win streak" is for real or not.  

Time will tell.  Until then, enjoy the ride!

 

 

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Just finished watching Ralph's postgame presser, focusing the entire time on only one thing: his nose.

 

It's really quite magnificent.

 

Still can't decide if our new "10 game win streak" is for real or not.  

Time will tell.  Until then, enjoy the ride!

 

 

All the underlying analytics tell us it’s real. 

[LikeIGiveADarn]

Toronto is melting down now. How long before Babs is gone?

[Beast]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Can Murray be blamed for Lehner being drinking himself silly while in Buffalo?

 

Lehner had extreme issues all the way back to his Binghamton days in the AHL where Murray was the GM of the team.

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Just finished watching Ralph's postgame presser, focusing the entire time on only one thing: his nose.

 

It's really quite magnificent.

 

Still can't decide if our new "10 game win streak" is for real or not.  

Time will tell.  Until then, enjoy the ride!

 

 

 

It feels a lot better than the 10 game streak. The Sabres are actually outplaying their opponents unlike last year when they were getting extremely lucky.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 hours ago, Big C said:

You guys seeing Sully and Jeremy White going at it on Twitter? Lol.

 

Love watching the Sabres this year. Feels very different from the hot start last year. 

 

Side note, I enjoy Biron's analysis.

 

Jerry's got blue balls right now because both teams are doing well. He can't write one of his usual hit pieces (he's now with AP believe it or not) without looking like a chump. Remember him railing against Beane for signing the multiple-time concussed Mitch Morse "out of desperation?" That take aged well.

Edited October 23, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[JohnC]

The attached link is WGR's Paul Hamilton writing a quick summary of the game. What the crowd is telling Jack is to shoot the freaking puck!

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-eichel-takes-over-game-win-over-san-jose

 

This link is a WGR post game comments by Krueger. It is a little longer than 4 minutes. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/10-22-ralph-krueger-post-game

Edited October 23, 2019 by JohnC
addition

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Jerry's got blue balls right now because both teams are doing well. He can't write one of his usual hit pieces (he's now with AP believe it not) without looking like a chump. Remember him railing against Beane for signing the multiple-time concussed Mitch Morse "out of desperation?" That take aged well.

 

You just know he’s got all his hit pieces written and sitting in a drawer waiting to be unleashed. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

 

You just know he’s got all his hit pieces written and sitting in a drawer waiting to be unleashed. 

 

Read the entire thread. The flack he's getting for that 1st period take is hilarious.

 

 

[JohnC]

The below NHL.com link shows the team standings. The most impressive stat in the standings is that Buffalo leads the league with a +14. That indicates that our record is not a fluke. I'm not going to get carried away and say that the Sabres are an elite team because of their early record because I don't believe that assessment. However, I do believe that they are a demonstrating that they are not only a good team but an emerging team that because of its youthfulness  will get better. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2019/wildcard

[Alaska Darin]

Anyone who wants to know how much coaching matters only needs to watch the OT.  This is the first time since the 3-on-3 format was adopted that the Sabres looked like they had a clue of what they were doing.  TOTAL domination in the extra session.

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said:

Anyone who wants to know how much coaching matters only needs to watch the OT.  This is the first time since the 3-on-3 format was adopted that the Sabres looked like they had a clue of what they were doing.  TOTAL domination in the extra session.

I listened to about 3 minutes of GR this morning, and even they said something to the effect" dont want to throw dirt on the grave" when discussing Housley, its just hard to not see the difference coaching has made here. I had no clue if Krueger would be any good or not, but at least he is not throwing 17  and 6 out there to start every overtime.

 

 

[Doc]

11 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Are you being drinking?

It was being poor editing. 
 

And I’ll remember the one. 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I listened to about 3 minutes of GR this morning, and even they said something to the effect" dont want to throw dirt on the grave" when discussing Housley, its just hard to not see the difference coaching has made here. I had no clue if Krueger would be any good or not, but at least he is not throwing 17  and 6 out there to start every overtime.

 

 

 

[shrader]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The below NHL.com link shows the team standings. The most impressive stat in the standings is that Buffalo leads the league with a +14. That indicates that our record is not a fluke. I'm not going to get carried away and say that the Sabres are an elite team because of their early record because I don't believe that assessment. However, I do believe that they are a demonstrating that they are not only a good team but an emerging team that because of its youthfulness  will get better. 

 

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2019/wildcard

 

It's an incredibly minor thing, but I'll point out that the +14 does include the fake goal awarded for winning that one shootout.  It doesn't change your point one bit, but I really wish the NHL wouldn't include those in their official stats.  Anyway, I wanted to say that the number of OT wins gives me a little doubt, but looking over the schedule, there's actually been less of those than I thought.  I guess that's the problem when they play 3 west coast games that I can't watch, all I remember is the three consecutive OT games just prior to that trip.  So far, they're different than last year.  I don't see that quit that I was so worried about, particularly in a game like last night after falling behind 2-0 early.

 

Speaking of OT, that one last night was great.  They lost control of the puck just once during the entire 3 minutes.  Granted that one loss of control lead to a rush the other way, but they completely controlled the entire OT.

[GG]

12 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I listened to about 3 minutes of GR this morning, and even they said something to the effect" dont want to throw dirt on the grave" when discussing Housley, its just hard to not see the difference coaching has made here. I had no clue if Krueger would be any good or not, but at least he is not throwing 17  and 6 out there to start every overtime.

 

 

 

In retrospect, the only remotely, slightly, possible silver lining to keeping Housley for the entire '18 season was the off-chance that the interim coach would be decent enough to prevent a full on coaching search that landed Ralph.

[plenzmd1]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

 

Speaking of OT, that one last night was great.  They lost control of the puck just once during the entire 3 minutes.  Granted that one loss of control lead to a rush the other way, but they completely controlled the entire OT.

But man the hustle on Casey to backcheck and get in the passing lane and steal the puck was just awesome to watch. If you have the game on DVR, go back and watch that play and focus on 37...just awesome

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

In retrospect, the only remotely, slightly, possible silver lining to keeping Housley for the entire '18 season was the off-chance that the interim coach would be decent enough to prevent a full on coaching search that landed Ralph.

true dat...but Ralph got a long way to go before we crown his ass?

[K-9]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Read the entire thread. The flack he's getting for that 1st period take is hilarious.

 

 

That was a great read. Jerry getting roasted never gets old. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

But man the hustle on Casey to backcheck and get in the passing lane and steal the puck was just awesome to watch. If you have the game on DVR, go back and watch that play and focus on 37...just awesome

true dat...but Ralph got a long way to go before we crown his ass?

Holy crap! I just had a chance to rewatch that play and wow! That’s as major league as it gets. Just great desire and then the situational awareness to make the play.
 

I love offense and skill and talent and great playmaking as much as the next guy, but I RESPECT defensive effort in sports more than anything. Defense is ALL heart and desire and guts and it doesn’t get the accolades that a great offensive skill play gets, but it’s just so integral to success.
 

Casey was gassed after that sprint and exhaustion often brings out the worst in players immediately afterward, but he still had the poise and awareness to control the puck and wait for a better play to develop. I say that’s the best play he’s made since he’s been here. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, shrader said:

It's an incredibly minor thing, but I'll point out that the +14 does include the fake goal awarded for winning that one shootout.  It doesn't change your point one bit, but I really wish the NHL wouldn't include those in their official stats.  Anyway, I wanted to say that the number of OT wins gives me a little doubt, but looking over the schedule, there's actually been less of those than I thought.  I guess that's the problem when they play 3 west coast games that I can't watch, all I remember is the three consecutive OT games just prior to that trip.  So far, they're different than last year.  I don't see that quit that I was so worried about, particularly in a game like last night after falling behind 2-0 early.

 

Speaking of OT, that one last night was great.  They lost control of the puck just once during the entire 3 minutes.  Granted that one loss of control lead to a rush the other way, but they completely controlled the entire OT.

You are punctilious. ?

[JohnC]

The below link is a WGR interview with Ralph Krueger. He made some positive comments about Mitts and how he is working hard and coming along. This is a 13 min segment. The coach is so illuminating. How many coaches would use the term "harmonizing on and off performances"?

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/krueger-have-system-where-we-let-players-genius-execute

[Nextmanup]

16 hours ago, K-9 said:

All the underlying analytics tell us it’s real. 

Yes and no.

 

For example, Hutton has played in 6 of our game and has an outstanding .943 save percentage.

 

That's not typical of his performance and that will almost certainl drop of, just as it did last year.

 

One of the biggest reasons for our "tale of 2 teams" last year was the goaltending leading up to the new year, and after.

 

After January 1st, we had one of the worst goaltending duos in the league.

 

Ullmark's % after 4 games is much more realistic at .913.

 

If things cool off, I think we'll see that both goaltender's save percentages have dropped.

 

 

[BillsFan4]

 

“Buffalo Sabres (@BuffaloSabres) Tweeted:

"The way our bench erupted when Casey backchecked...it was crazy."

 

Coach Krueger reacts to the in-game bench vibe: https://t.co/QYTDK1xdec https://t.co/j46TtoDI49

 

 

The play John + k9 are talking about ^

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by BillsFan4