John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm in the "playoffs now" mode.  I think they've made the improvements they needed to make to make this team competitive.  

 

They've put better talent on the offensive line to help Allen and got another speedster to stretch the field.  We should see improvements in both the run/pass game.  

Our defense is playoff caliber...I think we're just another edge rusher away from being great.  It's time for our offense to make the next step.  

 

If Josh Allen can be a 24 TD/10 INT, 3,500 yard passing, 500 rushing....we should be in good shape I think.

 

...have to agree it is a reasonable objective, but keeping in mind not all objectives are met.......whole bunch of newness from personnel (who are the final 53?) as well as coaches....something like 10-6 for WC spot, victory in WC game and a tough loss in the next round would be job well done IMO...9-7 with a near miss, but with significant upside shown is a possibility.........and would SURELY bring out the TBD "Fire McBeane...Fire McDermott...Fire the Damn Beerman..."  Gang in short order with their regurgitating diatribe.....

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

So it’s all about no regression in the win column without extenuating circumstances then. 

 

As a fan, I can respect that. 

 

As someone who realizes football administrations don’t think like fans, I think McBeane get a 3rd year, regardless. 

 

But it is actually a 4th year. I don't see any evidence so far that the Pegulas are patient administrator owners. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Carroll and Vermeil were highly successful college coaches.

 

Carroll also took teams to the playoffs in both his second and third NFL coaching seasons (in NE). 

Pete Carroll failed miserably in New York and then took a successful Patriots teams led by Bill Parcells and made it continually worse for three consecutive years before being run out of the NFL altogether.   He was universally viewed as a failure of a head coach.  Which was we were talking about.  

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But it is actually a 4th year. I don't see any evidence so far that the Pegulas are patient administrator owners. 

I disagree it’s a 4th year for the administration. For the Pegulas, certainly. For Mc Beane and the vast staff tneh assembled in football ops, it’s year 3 coming up. 

 

Regarding the patience of the Pegulas, I agree. But unless it’s an absolute train wreck with regression everywhere and not just in the win column, accompanied by the childish infighting and bickering we saw when their first coaching hire went south, my hunch is they will get more time. 

 

Hopefully, it’s a moot point come season’s end, but we are a team still in transition with a ton of new moving parts that need to coalesce on and off the field, so I expect some bumps in the road along the way. 

 

Edit: got my thoughts crossed on the Pegulas and McBeane.

Edited June 7, 2019 by K-9

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Hopefully it works better than Jauron's culture based re-build but that probably comes down ENTIRELY to Josh Allen.

 

A lot comes down to Allen. Definitely. And some to the talent on the rest of the roster. I think the Bills' talent evaluations both draft and FA in the Dickie J years were questionable at best. 

[Royale with Cheese]

31 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...have to agree it is a reasonable objective, but keeping in mind not all objectives are met.......whole bunch of newness from personnel (who are the final 53?) as well as coaches....something like 10-6 for WC spot, victory in WC game and a tough loss in the next round would be job well done IMO...9-7 with a near miss, but with significant upside shown is a possibility.........and would SURELY bring out the TBD "Fire McBeane...Fire McDermott...Fire the Damn Beerman..."  Gang in short order with their regurgitating diatribe.....

 

I'm thinking 10-6 too.  9-7 would be meh....it's time to start being past the "in the hunt" in the last 1/4 of the season.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm thinking 10-6 too.  9-7 would be meh....it's time to start being past the "in the hunt" in the last 1/4 of the season.

 

 

...I agree bud......but at the same time, we should consider realistic possibilities because of the substantial newness......17 years of "we're going....playoffs!....SB bound!...14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 11-5, 10-6 etc, "the schneid is over" et al is so old , it's available on 8-track and cassette...probably on Victrola.......

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...I agree bud......but at the same time, we should consider realistic possibilities because of the substantial newness......17 years of "we're going....playoffs!....SB bound!...14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 11-5, 10-6 etc, "the schneid is over" et al is so old , it's available on 8-track and cassette...probably on Victrola.......

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 

...LMAO!...yet another perfectly good pair of Depends down the drain (dammit)...............

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...LMAO!...yet another perfectly good pair of Depends down the drain (dammit)...............

 

We seriously need to know what winning a Super Bowl feels like as fans.  *****....I want it mine now!

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, eball said:

 

I don't think it's "playoffs or bust" -- I think it's a better than .500 record, the elimination of "bad losses" like we've seen the past couple of years, and offensive statistics that aren't mired at the bottom of the league.

 

Those are my criteria, anyway.

I didn't see this before, but this is what I think reasonable progress is.  Anything short of this and you at least have to ask what's going on.  

 

I've said all along I think playoffs is possible, but a lot of things have to go right, particularly the oline coming together and Allen making good progress over last season.  

 

I won't be happy with 9-7 and no playoffs, but I won't be disappointed.

 

I believe McBeane are doing what they said they'd do: build a foundation for long term success.  They need one more round of free agency and one more draft.  When they have those additional players they will have talent they should win with.  If the Bill's are around .500 this year, 2020 is the hotseat year for McBeane.  

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Pete Carroll failed miserably in New York and then took a successful Patriots teams led by Bill Parcells and made it continually worse for three consecutive years before being run out of the NFL altogether.   He was universally viewed as a failure of a head coach.  Which was we were talking about.  

He was 6-5 in NY and the team cratered after Dan Marino's fake spike. With regard to NE, he took over an 11-5 team that had gone 6-10 the year before. More importantly, his QB was Drew Bledsoe, probably the most overrated big-name QB in NFL history. 

[eball]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't see this before, but this is what I think reasonable progress is.  Anything short of this and you at least have to ask what's going on.  

 

I've said all along I think playoffs is possible, but a lot of things have to go right, particularly the oline coming together and Allen making good progress over last season.  

 

I won't be happy with 9-7 and no playoffs, but I won't be disappointed.

 

I believe McBeane are doing what they said they'd do: build a foundation for long term success.  They need one more round of free agency and one more draft.  When they have those additional players they will have talent they should win with.  If the Bill's are around .500 this year, 2020 is the hotseat year for McBeane.  

 

I have said pretty consistently that this is the year for the Bills to show significant progress, and then in 2020 they begin league domination.  I'm only half-kidding -- it pretty much depends upon them being right with Allen -- but I like the way Beane approaches roster building and I like the way McD gets his players to buy in.  I really need to see some gameday "stuff" this year that shows me McD and his staff "get it."

[LSHMEAB]

10 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I'm not sure what you consider a failure.  Obviously, you have much more tolerance for poor performance than I do, because  going 6-10 the season after a playoff appearance screams "FAIL!" to me.   IMO, McDermott has completely used up any and all of his free passes.  Because of league parity imposed by the salary cap, good coaching is essential.  Part of being a good NFL HC is hiring good assistants.  That's why certain HCs produce winners anywhere and everywhere they go and create "coaching trees" of former assistants who go on to become good HCs on their own.  McDermott's assistants on offense and special teams have been disasters.  That's what happens in almost any endeavor when you rely on nepotism to fill key positions.  Many of his  personnel decisions have been questionable at best ... Peterman and Jones from the 2017 draft are most notable.   McDermott puts a better product on the field -- ie, minimum 8 wins -- or he deserves to be unemployed for 2020.

 

As for Beane, at least he's not saddled with the 2017 draft but the only thing that he's done positive is go "all in" on a QB.  His fate will be determined by Josh Allen's success or failure, and at least he has tried to improve Allen's supporting cast this season which gives the kid at least a chance to succeed. 

This. There seems to a really strange dynamic going on here. There are fans who claim to be optimistic, yet expect or at least would accept a 7-9 season. Because winning is "right around the corner." Never seen anything like it.

 

The time to win is NOW. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Giving regimes three years or less hasn’t worked out well for this franchise. 

 

That's because they hired the wrong people, not because they let them go too early.

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I hate the discussion about "if" the Bills go 6-10. I think everyone here agrees anything under 9-7 will be a disappointment. Unless Allen gets injured, if they go 6-10 the process has failed.

Yeah. I don't know why this is such a topic of discussion. It's almost like those who want to believe in the regime are willing to wait forever, but have unexpressed doubts. Show us the baby.

[oldmanfan]

53 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

This. There seems to a really strange dynamic going on here. There are fans who claim to be optimistic, yet expect or at least would accept a 7-9 season. Because winning is "right around the corner." Never seen anything like it.

 

The time to win is NOW. 

 

 

That's because they hired the wrong people, not because they let them go too early.

Yeah. I don't know why this is such a topic of discussion. It's almost like those who want to believe in the regime are willing to wait forever, but have unexpressed doubts. Show us the baby.

The time to get better is now.  The time to WIN as you put it may or may not be now.  As much as I like Allen he is still a second year QB with a lot to learn.  I anticipate somewhere between 8-8 to 10-6.  The O line should be better, the D should be solid.  If Allen makes quicker progress the prospects for a playoff season should be bright.

[LSHMEAB]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The time to get better is now.  The time to WIN as you put it may or may not be now.  As much as I like Allen he is still a second year QB with a lot to learn.  I anticipate somewhere between 8-8 to 10-6.  The O line should be better, the D should be solid.  If Allen makes quicker progress the prospects for a playoff season should be bright.

That's probably fair, but I've watched all 5 QB's drafted in 2016 and 2017 make the playoffs in their second season. 

 

Why not us? Why not now? The life of a Bills fan I suppose.

Edited June 7, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That's probably fair, but I've watched all 5 QB's drafted in 2016 and 2017 make the playoffs in their second season. 

 

Why not us? Why not now? The life of a Bills fan I suppose.

I just answered that question.  If Allen progresses well we should If not we won't.  And don't forget other teams with their young QBs don't play Brady twice a year.  That's a roadblock for AFC East teams.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We seriously need to know what winning a Super Bowl feels like as fans.  *****....I want it mine now!

 

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't see this before, but this is what I think reasonable progress is.  Anything short of this and you at least have to ask what's going on.  

 

I've said all along I think playoffs is possible, but a lot of things have to go right, particularly the oline coming together and Allen making good progress over last season.  

 

I won't be happy with 9-7 and no playoffs, but I won't be disappointed.

 

I believe McBeane are doing what they said they'd do: build a foundation for long term success.  They need one more round of free agency and one more draft.  When they have those additional players they will have talent they should win with.  If the Bill's are around .500 this year, 2020 is the hotseat year for McBeane.  

I have said since they came on board as the Guys creating the Bills future state , progress each season and off season. I see that.

 Come game day they have plenty to clean up still with penalties and execution.
expecting those to have improved this year.
not getting "over run " by the run game ( looking at you Tremaine )
Play solid football for four quarters and the wins will come.

 But as  McD said early on. gotta go through the Patriots to win the big one. 

simple as that. Beat the Pats 3 times in the season and we own our destiny.

i approve of your post Shaw66 

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the season has to be an outright disaster for them to fire McBeane for the reasons BADOLL stated.

 

The Pegulas would be hesitant to pull the trigger. 

I hope you are quite correct.
might be on the five year plan. which i approve of.

there is no possible way the team is less good than last season.

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

It's just what I think the Pegulas are thinking.

 

if they go 7-9 next year and start 2020 looking just as bad I can see them firing these guys before mid season. Point being they'll be on a very short leash if this year is another losing season. 

That is fine.

 

 like i mentioned. to not have a better season this year would surprise me.
even if they get an injury bug ? the depth has improved.
Allen is the turn key of course. Can he improve upon his perceived weaknesses ?

he will get better protection. can he throw his receivers open in the short game?
 

[3rdand12]

22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep. Allen is the key considering the team as a whole isn't the most talented. 

I mean Bills finally securing, and possibly able to Coach up a Franchise QB. yet to be determined of course.
Once you find the QB then you build the Offense accordingly. difference between year one and year 3. Whaley spent money/picks before he had the QB.
 

BTW some folks might be surprised to find out that Patriots are not the most talented. They just make very good use of what they have

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A lot comes down to Allen. Definitely. And some to the talent on the rest of the roster. I think the Bills' talent evaluations both draft and FA in the Dickie J years were questionable at best. 

 

 

The biggest non-QB problem issue with the Jauron regime was the treading of water by replacing good veterans, that they should've just paid, with high draft picks.

 

And of course the incredibly dubious positional valuations on draft day.

 

In the first two rounds they picked an All Pro and possible HOF'er in Marshawn Lynch.......an All Pro safety in Jairus Byrd.........two successful interior OL in Wood and Levitre.......and a very good MLB in Poz.........and even Donte Whitner played in Pro Bowls.    But look at those positions?    Brutal.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The other thing is that whether it's deserved or not, Beane and McDermott have a lot respect around the league and are well-liked. The Pegulas are followers and not mavericks in these matters, and my guess is that they won't regard getting rid of these two as a good look. Hence they won't get rid of them if they go 6-10 this season. I don't think any of their firees in the Sabres organization or Rex/Whaley are remotely comparable to Beane/McDermott. 

 

 

With former Pats DC Flores going to Miami I can envision a scenario where the Bills get beaten soundly twice by Belichick and then unexpectedly struggle against Flores and the Dolphins.

 

I mean we saw Matt Patricia and his Lions come in and really bring it against the Bills last season when that didn't appear to be coming.  

 

The inability to handle BB and his protege might be a big enough concern for The Pegs to pull the trigger even if the team is 6-10...........especially if Gase and his team continues to be more competitive against BB.

Edited June 8, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

This is the pitchforks and torches I was taking about in an earlier post.

 

The majority of this board saw and knew that the 2018 offensive line was in real trouble without Woods, Incognito. We knew the replacements weren't very good. We also already knew that run game coordinator/O line coach Juan Castillo was the wrong guy for the job. Although, some were in a wait and see mode for the line.

Most of us also knew starting Peterman against the Ravens in the season opener was going to be a mistake. That not having a seasoned, veteran NFL QB coach was going to be a big problem with such young, inexperienced QBs at the starter and backup positions after the team traded AJ McCarron. 

 

What I'm saying is, a lot of us were expecting the results we saw for the 2018 season and trust me a lot of us also were complaining as the season progressed. So no, I don't consider the 2018 season a failure considering that the GM's hands were tied to bringing in top quality free agent replacements for Wood, Incognito due to cap space restrictions. Same thing goes for the receiving corps.

 

So much that was wrong with the 2018 season that this GM/ HC has addressed and corrected, ie, players, coaches. 

 

Bottom line is that this team is going to field a second year QB still learning his craft as an NFL pocket passer.  And let's face it, Josh Allen doesn't have Andy Reid coaching him, nor does he have a trio of stars at RB, WR, TE like Patrick Mahomes had last season. He doesn't have a Sean McVay or a Matt Nagy either.

 

What he does have is a defensive minded HC with an OC who in his five seasons as an NFL OC has never had a passing offense better than #23rd in passing yards and 3 of 5 of those seasons were worse than 30th. Brian Daboll does have a back ground with some good coaching staffs (Patriots) so there is hope that he can do a better job. We can expect the 2019 Bills defense to be in the top ten or better and hopefully the offense will take a big step up with the upgrades on the O line and at WR. 

 

Should the offense fail this season I can see changes made with the OC and not the HC/GM. 

 

The last time I looked, HCs are responsible for the performance of the defense, offense, and special teams.   If the 2019 offense is again poor with a healthy Josh Allen, the buck does NOT stop with Brian Daboll.  McDermott will have struck out with 2 OCs as well as most of his offensive assistants in just 3 seasons.   How does this suggest in any way that McDermott is going to get any better at it if he gets more time???

 

As for Beane, if Allen does not show significant progress towards becoming a competent NFL starting QB -- if he's making the same mistakes, if he continues to run too much, if he doesn't improve his short passing game and decision making etc -- that seriously suggests he's going to be a bust.  Surrounding a bust with all the talent in world cannot make him a good QB.  Mahomes would have shown himself a good QB in 2018 if he'd had had half the offensive talent around him.   Mark Sanchez and Christian Ponder played for very talented teams that actually made the playoffs despite their poor QBs.   Spending a fortune in draft capital to draft a bust can get any GM fired.

 

20 hours ago, eball said:

 

I think this is a reasonable statement -- I'll only disagree that they "bungled" the OL.  They couldn't predict Wood's injury/retirement, and I guess they didn't need to ask Richie to take a pay cut but they certainly didn't expect him to flip out the way he did.  If both of those guys had returned last year we could have seen some much different results.

 

They DID ask Incognito to take a pay cut, however, which may or may not have contributed to his psych problems.  They also traded away Cordy Glenn -- and don't give me this "he was injury prone" excuse because they went out and signed Morse who also is allegedly "injury prone".   They also might have addressed the OL in the 2018 draft before the end of the fifth round when they finally got around to drafting Wyatt Teller.   How can NFL professionals NOT realize the importance of having a good OL, especially when they've sunk a fortune in a rookie QB????

 

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is a case of not being able to see the big picture.

 

 

I see the big picture just fine.  I see that the Bills under McDermott and Beane bear a depressing resemblance to previous failed Bills regimes despite a change at the ownership level.  I see a team that three years into a new regime isn't significantly more talented than it was in 2016 and probably even be less so, and which remains uncompetitive with the elite teams in the NFL.  IOW, I don't see much progress at this point.  Maybe the 2019 season changes that with the development of young players from the last three drafts along with the addition of key FAs, but it's time for the current regime to produce results not promises. 

 

 

[Shaw66]

42 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

I see the big picture just fine.  I see that the Bills under McDermott and Beane bear a depressing resemblance to previous failed Bills regimes despite a change at the ownership level.  I see a team that three years into a new regime isn't significantly more talented than it was in 2016 and probably even be less so, and which remains uncompetitive with the elite teams in the NFL.  IOW, I don't see much progress at this point.  Maybe the 2019 season changes that with the development of young players from the last three drafts along with the addition of key FAs, but it's time for the current regime to produce results not promises. 

 

 

Tier

 

I didn't quote your entire post, but this addresses all of it.  I think all of the optimists around here, including me, should read it and think about it.  I don't agree with it, but you express a valid way to look at where the Bills are right now.  

 

Where I really disagree is on the big picture.  The big picture is that McBeane are putting together a cohesive group with a team focus and a commitment to winning that is different from the precious regime, for sure. 

 

It's true that the team today isn't significantly more talented on an individual basis than three years ago, but the mix of talent is much better.  Oliver can't possibly have a worse attitude than Dareus, the Bills have a much more talented MLB and QB than they had three years ago, they still have a star cornerback.  The difference is that the guys they have now are all on the same page, rather than having. Guys like Richie, who was fine until he wasn't and Watkins, who never really worked at his job.   There's a head coach with focus and a plan instead of a guy who's system was to fly by the seat of his pants. 

 

Th current Bills present an image of things coming together according to a plan.  Three years ago there was none of that. At the end of 2016, the Buffalo News and much of the national media was treating the Whaley-Ryan Bills as a dumpster fire.  No one is saying that now.  

 

Coaching and management is more important that anything else in the NFL, and the Bills are way ahead of three years ago in that department. 

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

With former Pats DC Flores going to Miami I can envision a scenario where the Bills get beaten soundly twice by Belichick and then unexpectedly struggle against Flores and the Dolphins.

 

I mean we saw Matt Patricia and his Lions come in and really bring it against the Bills last season when that didn't appear to be coming.  

 

The inability to handle BB and his protege might be a big enough concern for The Pegs to pull the trigger even if the team is 6-10...........especially if Gase and his team continues to be more competitive against BB.

This is the kind of statement that kills your credibility.  You can envision it, sure, but that doesn't mean it's likely.  I can envision Sean McDermott running off to Tijuana with Kim Pegula.  Doesn't mean your vision or mine is worth talking about.  

 

If you can envision some Belichick protégé emerging, why don't you image Daboll emerging?  

Edited June 8, 2019 by Shaw66

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

The last time I looked, HCs are responsible for the performance of the defense, offense, and special teams.   If the 2019 offense is again poor with a healthy Josh Allen, the buck does NOT stop with Brian Daboll.  McDermott will have struck out with 2 OCs as well as most of his offensive assistants in just 3 seasons.   How does this suggest in any way that McDermott is going to get any better at it if he gets more time???

 

As for Beane, if Allen does not show significant progress towards becoming a competent NFL starting QB -- if he's making the same mistakes, if he continues to run too much, if he doesn't improve his short passing game and decision making etc -- that seriously suggests he's going to be a bust.  Surrounding a bust with all the talent in world cannot make him a good QB.  Mahomes would have shown himself a good QB in 2018 if he'd had had half the offensive talent around him.   Mark Sanchez and Christian Ponder played for very talented teams that actually made the playoffs despite their poor QBs.   Spending a fortune in draft capital to draft a bust can get any GM fired.

 

 

They DID ask Incognito to take a pay cut, however, which may or may not have contributed to his psych problems.  They also traded away Cordy Glenn -- and don't give me this "he was injury prone" excuse because they went out and signed Morse who also is allegedly "injury prone".   They also might have addressed the OL in the 2018 draft before the end of the fifth round when they finally got around to drafting Wyatt Teller.   How can NFL professionals NOT realize the importance of having a good OL, especially when they've sunk a fortune in a rookie QB????

 

 

I see the big picture just fine.  I see that the Bills under McDermott and Beane bear a depressing resemblance to previous failed Bills regimes despite a change at the ownership level.  I see a team that three years into a new regime isn't significantly more talented than it was in 2016 and probably even be less so, and which remains uncompetitive with the elite teams in the NFL.  IOW, I don't see much progress at this point.  Maybe the 2019 season changes that with the development of young players from the last three drafts along with the addition of key FAs, but it's time for the current regime to produce results not promises. 

 

 

 

You are not seeing the big picture at all.  Comments about being worse last year is a fail than 2017 indicates that.

 

I don’t see a resemblance at all with this regime with previous ones.  I think you want to see the resemblance so you can have another gripe.

[Royale with Cheese]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

With former Pats DC Flores going to Miami I can envision a scenario where the Bills get beaten soundly twice by Belichick and then unexpectedly struggle against Flores and the Dolphins.

 

I mean we saw Matt Patricia and his Lions come in and really bring it against the Bills last season when that didn't appear to be coming.  

 

The inability to handle BB and his protege might be a big enough concern for The Pegs to pull the trigger even if the team is 6-10...........especially if Gase and his team continues to be more competitive against BB.

 

How did the Lions bring it?  They scored 13 points and had a total of 14 first downs.  

 

Stafford barely eclipsed 200 yards passing.

Their leading rusher had 47 yards.

They only scored in the second quarter and offense didn’t do anything most of the game...they punted 7 times in fact.

 

One player on the Lions brought it and that was Galladay.

 

I also don’t understand why you’re envisioning that.  Just because he came from the Pats?  

Edited June 8, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[K-9]

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How did the Lions bring it?  They scored 13 points and had a total of 14 first downs.  

 

Stafford barely eclipsed 200 yards passing.

Their leading rusher had 47 yards.

They only scored in the second quarter and offense didn’t do anything most of the game...they punted 7 times in fact.

 

One player on the Lions brought it and that was Galladay.

 

I also don’t understand why you’re envisioning that.  Just because he came from the Pats?  

I think it’s because every ex-Patriot*** coach who worked under Belichick has gone on to great success as a head coach. 

 

When the push back about Patricia “bringing it”against us last season turns into he meant bringing it defensively, well, that is not true, either. Sure, it was a defensive battle, but ours was every bit as good that day. And I guess Patricia didn’t “bring it” when it mattered most in the 4th quarter when Allen torched him with a 42 yarder to Foster. I’m sure that made Belichick proud.

Edited June 8, 2019 by K-9

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How did the Lions bring it?  They scored 13 points and had a total of 14 first downs.  

 

Stafford barely eclipsed 200 yards passing.

Their leading rusher had 47 yards.

They only scored in the second quarter and offense didn’t do anything most of the game...they punted 7 times in fact.

 

One player on the Lions brought it and that was Galladay.

 

I also don’t understand why you’re envisioning that.  Just because he came from the Pats?  

 

 

Defensively.

 

In the 3 games prior to Detroit Josh Allen had rushed for 99, 135 and 101 yards.........against Detroit he ran 9 times for just 16 yards..........the following week against NE he ran 5 times for 30 yards.........then in the finale back to 95 yards rushing against Miami.

 

Patricia created the gameplan to stop Allen from running wild and nearly pulled off an upset...........then Belichick used it against Allen in that utter domination by the Pats when NE was looking very vulnerable.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

48 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is the kind of statement that kills your credibility.  You can envision it, sure, but that doesn't mean it's likely.  I can envision Sean McDermott running off to Tijuana with Kim Pegula.  Doesn't mean your vision or mine is worth talking about.  

 

If you can envision some Belichick protégé emerging, why don't you image Daboll emerging?  

 

 

Who said anything about Flores "emerging".    Patricia was just 6-10 last year when he nearly engineered a surprise win in Buffalo. .

 

I don't expect anything special from Flores and I don't of Patricia either..............but I know that Belichick has OWNED McDermott...........OWNED..........make all the excuses you want for Sean but no Bills HC has been less competitive against Belichick in his first 4 games against him.........and that's saying A LOT considering the lack of success they've had against him in the past 2 decades.    Flores and Patricia have made a killing the past two years bringing out the worst in McDermott's woeful offense's.    

 

Now the other point here is you have said you don't like speculation..........well that's what we are doing here.........so why read it if it makes you upset?   Put me on ignore if you don't like us discussing the topic.   I'm not here to cater to your very specific wishes about what should be discussed.   

 

[thebandit27]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Defensively.

 

In the 3 games prior to Detroit Josh Allen had rushed for 99, 135 and 101 yards.........against Detroit he ran 9 times for just 16 yards..........the following week against NE he ran 5 times for 30 yards.........then in the finale back to 95 yards rushing against Miami.

 

Patricia created the gameplan to stop Allen from running wild and nearly pulled off an upset...........then Belichick used it against Allen in that utter domination by the Pats when NE was looking very vulnerable.

 

 

I think it's natural that a new HC would be most successful against the teams he's seen the most often...probably why Detroit pulled off an upset against NE in week 3. 

 

Plus--as you know--it's a matchup league more than ever. Teams like Miami and the Jets, with slow-to-react LBs and undisciplined EDGE defenders, are far more likely to give up big rushing numbers to a QB than your more disciplined teams like NE.

 

That said, it'll be interesting to see the direction of the AFC East over the next 2 seasons. You've got several dynamics at play between the 2018 QB class playing out, how NE handles Brady's continued decline and succession plan, and the Belichick coaching tree vs the outsiders.

Edited June 8, 2019 by thebandit27

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I think it's natural that a new HC would be most successful against the teams he's seen the most often...probably why Detroit pulled off an upset against NE in week 3. 

 

Plus--as you know--it's a matchup league more than ever. Teams like Miami and the Jets, with slow-to-react LBs and undisciplined EDGE defenders, are far more likely to give up big rushing numbers to a QB than your more disciplined teams like NE.

 

That said, it'll be interesting to see the direction of the AFC East over the next 2 seasons. You've got several dynamics at play between the 2018 QB class playing out, how NE handles Brady's continued decline and succession plan, and the Belichick coaching tree vs the outsiders.

I’m sorry,  but I can’t tip my hat to Patricia for stopping Allen from running wild on them. 99% of Allen’s rushing yardage during his three game hot rushing streak were from breaking pocket containment and taking off at the drop of a hat as the pocket collapsed around him. Football 101 says maintain your rush discipline and keep a good running QB in the pocket, so Patricia gets no points from me for on that score. And giving him credit for that like it was something extraordinary is absurd. 

 

Allen certainly burned him from the pocket when it mattered though. Was the difference in the game as it turned out. 

[Royale with Cheese]

39 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Defensively.

 

In the 3 games prior to Detroit Josh Allen had rushed for 99, 135 and 101 yards.........against Detroit he ran 9 times for just 16 yards..........the following week against NE he ran 5 times for 30 yards.........then in the finale back to 95 yards rushing against Miami.

 

Patricia created the gameplan to stop Allen from running wild and nearly pulled off an upset...........then Belichick used it against Allen in that utter domination by the Pats when NE was looking very vulnerable.

 

 

This  is a perfect example of cherry picking.  

Holding a QB from keeping his historic pace doesn't mean the defense "brought it".  

Both the Bills and Lions were a 6-10 team.  The Bills were favored by 2.5 at home.  It's not much of an upset if it did happen.

Did the Bills bring it defensively?  The Lions outside of one person did nothing.

 

Here's the Bills season average and what we did against the Lions.

• 16.8 ppg - 14 against the Lions.
• 298.6 yards per game - 312 against the Lions
• 17 first downs per game - 20 against the Lions
• 174 passing yards per game - 204 yards against the Lions
• 124 rushing yards per game - 117 yards against the lions.

So Belicheck stopped a rookie QB?  https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/patriots-dominance-vs-rookie-nfl-quarterbacks-one-crazy-stat

There's no harder exam for rookie NFL quarterbacks to pass than a Bill Belichick defense on the road.

The New England Patriots head coach improved his record against rookie QBs in Foxboro to 11-0 on Sunday with his team's 38-3 win over Sam Darnold and the New York Jets at Gillette Stadium.

 

So the Bills got it handed it to them by the 6 time Super Bowl Champs?  Look at what Belichick did against the Rams offense.

 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I think it's natural that a new HC would be most successful against the teams he's seen the most often...probably why Detroit pulled off an upset against NE in week 3. 

 

Plus--as you know--it's a matchup league more than ever. Teams like Miami and the Jets, with slow LBs and undisciplined EDGE defenders, are far more likely to give up big rushing numbers to a QB than your more disciplined teams like NE.

 

That said, it'll be interesting to see the direction of the AFC East over the next 2 seasons. You've got several dynamics at play between the 2018 QB class playing out, how NE handles Brady's continued decline and succession plan, and the Belichick coaching tree vs the outsiders.

 

 

Exactly and it's a double concern when the team that the new HC knows so well is one he has dominated.

 

If Flores is able to get the best of McDermott that will be a bad look to ownership..........and we are just discussing it here because that's the topic.

 

And we've been there before...........after the Dolphins and Jets won 1 and 4 games respectively in 2007 the Bills appeared to be the only possible WC contender from the AFC East going into 2008............we were understandably chalking up another easy 4-0 record against those scrubs.......in a stroke of good fortune for the Bills Brady got KO'd on opening day........but the Bills ended up going 0-6 in the division,  the Dolphins won it and the Bills finished last.

 

Stranger things have indeed happened.

 

 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I mean we saw Matt Patricia and his Lions come in and really bring it against the Bills last season when that didn't appear to be coming.  

 

Who was it that said you've forgotten more football than other people have learned? I'm beginning to think they were right.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This  is a perfect example of cherry picking.  

Holding a QB from keeping his historic pace doesn't mean the defense "brought it".  

Both the Bills and Lions were a 6-10 team.  The Bills were favored by 2.5 at home.  It's not much of an upset if it did happen.

Did the Bills bring it defensively?  The Lions outside of one person did nothing.

 

Here's the Bills season average and what we did against the Lions.

• 16.8 ppg - 14 against the Lions.
• 298.6 yards per game - 312 against the Lions
• 17 first downs per game - 20 against the Lions
• 174 passing yards per game - 204 yards against the Lions
• 124 rushing yards per game - 117 yards against the lions.

So Belicheck stopped a rookie QB?  https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/patriots-dominance-vs-rookie-nfl-quarterbacks-one-crazy-stat

There's no harder exam for rookie NFL quarterbacks to pass than a Bill Belichick defense on the road.

The New England Patriots head coach improved his record against rookie QBs in Foxboro to 11-0 on Sunday with his team's 38-3 win over Sam Darnold and the New York Jets at Gillette Stadium.

 

So the Bills got it handed it to them by the 6 time Super Bowl Champs?  Look at what Belichick did against the Rams offense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

C'mon Royale.........what you are doing is the OPPOSITE of Cherry picking.    It's like the George Washington version of cherry picking.   Not good for the tree.

 

Who cares about the "season averages".........the Bills season breaks down into before Allen returned from injury and after.

 

The highlighted is the issue.

 

By limiting Allen's running the Lions limited the Bills scoring............they had averaged just over 21 points in his first 3 games back from injury and that should have been more like 24 if not for the unfortunate ending in Miami.

 

But they put up just 14 at home against a poor Detroit team and needed a huge pass play late to even get that.

 

Same thing happened the next week in NE when they were KEPT OUT OF THE ENDZONE until the closing moments in garbage time.

 

Scores are what it's all about and the defenses employed by Patricia and Flores limited the Bills ability to score in both weeks.

 

 

[thebandit27]

31 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m sorry,  but I can’t tip my hat to Patricia for stopping Allen from running wild on them. 99% of Allen’s rushing yardage during his three game hot rushing streak were from breaking pocket containment and taking off at the drop of a hat as the pocket collapsed around him. Football 101 says maintain your rush discipline and keep a good running QB in the pocket, so Patricia gets no points from me for on that score. And giving him credit for that like it was something extraordinary is absurd. 

 

Allen certainly burned him from the pocket when it mattered though. Was the difference in the game as it turned out. 

 

I was more speaking to the lack of EDGE discipline and LB play recognition from Miami and NYJ in contrast to NE than propping up Detroit.

 

My comments about Detroit were geared more toward their surprising victory over NE than anything else.

[BADOLBILZ]

40 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m sorry,  but I can’t tip my hat to Patricia for stopping Allen from running wild on them. 99% of Allen’s rushing yardage during his three game hot rushing streak were from breaking pocket containment and taking off at the drop of a hat as the pocket collapsed around him. Football 101 says maintain your rush discipline and keep a good running QB in the pocket, so Patricia gets no points from me for on that score. And giving him credit for that like it was something extraordinary is absurd. 

 

Allen certainly burned him from the pocket when it mattered though. Was the difference in the game as it turned out. 

 

 

Josh Allen ran for 95 yards in the finale as well so it was more like a 4 out of 6 game hot rushing streak............but don't let that interrupt your "it's just football 101" narrative.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

C'mon Royale.........what you are doing is the OPPOSITE of Cherry picking.    It's like the George Washington version of cherry picking.   Not good for the tree.

 

Who cares about the "season averages".........the Bills season breaks down into before Allen returned from injury and after.

 

The highlighted is the issue.

 

By limiting Allen's running the Lions limited the Bills scoring............they had averaged just over 21 points in his first 3 games back from injury and that should have been more like 24 if not for the unfortunate ending in Miami.

 

But they put up just 14 at home against a poor Detroit team and needed a huge pass play late to even get that.

 

Same thing happened the next week in NE when they were KEPT OUT OF THE ENDZONE until the closing moments in garbage time.

 

Scores are what it's all about and the defenses employed by Patricia and Flores limited the Bills ability to score in both weeks.

 

 

 

C'mon Baldo....you're the one who specifically brought up one stat which was Josh's running yards.  That was in your first reply to me.

Well yes, the opposite of cherry picking is not cherry picking.  

 

Okay if scores are what it's all about then we only gave up 13.  Our defense brought it that day.  So in a game where both offenses didn't play well, our defense was better.

75% of Detroit's passing  yards came to one guy.  

 

Belichick has dominated rookie QB's at home.  He's 11-0.  I showed you the link.  It's not Flores game plan that did it....it's Belichick.  He's the constant.

 

The defenses employed by Flores also held the 2nd highest scoring team in the league led by McVay to one first down in the first half of the Super Bowl and 3 total points.  You're being especially hard on Allen, a rookie among several rookies that have been held completely in check by Belicheck.  Belicheck has done it to everyone....