Bills have only 5 players left from before McDermott arrived

[eball]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The 2017 offense thru 15 games was 7th in the NFL in scoring and had recorded the fewest amount of turnovers ever since the NFL merger(prior to going with EJ/Cardale vs. Jets).

 

The 2017 defense was a mess.........but very talented.

 

There was no discussion of this group being a bunch of bad apples that needed to be thrown out.............it was pretty well understood that the coaching was the problem.

 

They were setup nicely for a big upswing year........a lot of young vets coming of age....... and if they keep that group together.........and add Mahomes.........and say Dawkins and Milano.........that's how mediocre teams get out of their rut.

 

 

Clearly, McD and Beane didn't share your sentiment that those Bills were a couple of players away from becoming legitimate and sustainable competitors.  Even the optimists among us didn't expect immediate success.

 

As for your current nonsense about Vegas' expectations...I don't know what sports book you frequent but the Jets, Raiders, Dolphins, and Lions have longer Super Bowl odds.  The Bills tied for the 8th worst record in the league last year -- you expected Vegas to project them higher?

 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Not really, if he had 100% turnover it would be his decisions but not "his guys". There is only so much money and draft picks you can use every year, thinking he could get all players he wanted in just two years is ridiculous.

 

 

There are also only so many NFL HC jobs and so many chances to win before you get fired............so you probably shouldn't take a job where you need 100% turnover.

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

There’s a good reason for you’re handle.  Well said.  I’m getting sick of people pulling the trigger too fast on Beane or McDermitt when they inherited a mess both in cap space, problem children and lack of talent.

 

This year and next year will tell whether not only do we have our franchise QB, but also our franchise administration, and coaches.  I know the soap opera will weaken this argument with Bell and AB, but the Steelers have had a ton of success hiring the right people, staying out of football decisions, and maintain continuity.  You can bash Marvin Lewis, but does everyone remember the Bengals were a mess before he came there, and maybe they didn’t win in the playoffs, but they went from perpetual losing seasons for 15 years to six consecutive playoff appearances.  His message got old, but is another example of success through continuity.

It is accurate to say it is too soon to pull the trigger on Beane Or McDermott. However you and everyone else that said they inherited a mess is just factually inaccurate.  McD made the playoffs with many of Whaley's players and some very good free agent signings in the defensive backfield. Kudos to McD. McD and Beane then created the cap issue, traded for a terrible WR, and then started Peterman. Those are real facts. Add passing on Mahomes and you can make an argument they bothced year 1 too. I liked the trade down and drafting of White then and I still do now. I won't go back in time and criticize that move. However I hated the Watkins, KB, Dareus trades and still do. I was lukewarm on the Darby trade as I mistakenly thought he was a one year wonder.

McD and Beane will get this year to prove themselves. They must be in the playoff picture until at least week 16 or they should both be gone, barring injuries of course. 

They are nothing special and three years is plenty of time. 

Remember every time you defend McD he started Peterman multiple times, and played for a tie in OT with the playoffs on the line.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Clearly, McD and Beane didn't share your sentiment that those Bills were a couple of players away from becoming legitimate and sustainable competitors.  Even the optimists among us didn't expect immediate success.

 

As for your current nonsense about Vegas' expectations...I don't know what sports book you frequent but the Jets, Raiders, Dolphins, and Lions have longer Super Bowl odds.  The Bills tied for the 8th worst record in the league last year -- you expected Vegas to project them higher?

 

 

 

My bad it was Fanduel who has them at the worst odds to win the SB next year..........per a report in Democrat and Chronicle last week.

 

5th is bad enough though...........3 of those teams have new HC's and one doesn't even have a place to play their games yet.

 

For a team with a returning HC and QB and basically no free agents(rotational DT Jordan Phillips?) and 10 draft picks and the third most available cap space?

 

That's a decided vote of no confidence.

 

 

 

[njbuff]

Jerry Hughes is a FA after 2019

 

Shady is a FA after 2019

 

Lawson is still up in the air after 2019

 

Alexander will retire after 2019

 

 

Yikes, it is astounding that the only person left from the Rex Ryan mess is 2020........................ IS A LONG SNAPPER.

 

Yikes.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The Bills could've kept Gilmore and Watkins and simply drafted a Mahomes or Watson and they'd easily already be winning. 

8 teams passed on Mahomes.  Two traded up but still didn't take him.  One drafted a different QB.

 

No one knew.  KC took a chance and rolled 7s.

 

 

5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Then guess what? 

 

The Culture excuse is long gone. 

 

McDermott has his culture. 

 

Now get some results. 

playoffs are results.

 

got there.  first time in 17 years.

 

winning more than 3 games with this years roster was also results.

 

next year culture + roster = playoff win.

[eball]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

My bad it was Fanduel who has them at the worst odds to win the SB next year..........per a report in Democrat and Chronicle last week.

 

5th is bad enough though...........3 of those teams have new HC's and one doesn't even have a place to play their games yet.

 

For a team with a returning HC and QB and basically no free agents(rotational DT Jordan Phillips?) and 10 draft picks and the third most available cap space?

 

That's a decided vote of no confidence.

 

 

 

 

Surely you understand that Vegas odds are not predictors at all, right? They are an assessment of what oddsmakers believe is the public perception. Futures bets are not for the “sharps.”

 

So tell me, are you honestly surprised the public perception of the Bills is not strong?

 

Come on, man, I thought you were smarter than this. 

[BillsSB2020]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’m starting to think that may help! We should just get the best HC and QB ever and fix this! Why didn’t we see that sooner???  ?

 

I don’t love everything they do, but despite some errors I like the general direction. They make mistakes, like any team does, but I think they do a lot more right than wrong. I’d love to be in the playoffs this year, but you never know from season to season. If we fall short it doesn’t mean we suck and we aren’t making progress. I hope we are one of the pleasant surprises and keep building upon that. 

 

If others want to point out what they perceive as blunders and focus more on that, that’s perfectly fine. I don’t worry much about things I can’t control, so I don’t get too worked up about this stuff. We are all seeing the same “reality”, but everybody gets to decide what slant they want to put on football and life. 

 

If we all agreed 100% on everything it would be pretty boring. In the end, we’ll all have to wait and see how it turns out. Then we can disagree over what to do about it. 

 

I hear ya my man but my expectations are a bit higher. We've got our coach going into his third year who's already made the playoffs. We've got our QB going into his second year which has been money for QB's as of late. We've got the cap space to sign vets and the draft picks to bring talent aboard. We won 6 games last season. There's really no reason this team shouldn't be at minimum a serious contender for the playoffs.

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, BillsSB2020 said:

I hear ya my man but my expectations are a bit higher. We've got our coach going into his third year who's already made the playoffs. We've got our QB going into his second year which has been money for QB's as of late. We've got the cap space to sign vets and the draft picks to bring talent aboard. We won 6 games last season. There's really no reason this team shouldn't be at minimum a serious contender for the playoffs.

 

No, I think we’re in the same place. My HOPES are higher, but my expectations are fighting for and hopefully getting at least a wild card. I won’t expect a division until the Cheaters finally show they went off the cliff. It’s hard to discount them until the little weasels  officially crash and burn. 

[Doc Brown]

The large roster turnover has definitely showed considering we were 15-17 the two years before McDermott got here and 15-17 the two years since McDermott got here (with a playoff birth). 

 

Our defense statistically is much better than it was before McDermott got here with the additions of T. White, Milano, Poyer, Hyde, Edmunds, Star, Trent Murphy, T. Johnson, and Levi Wallace.  Good enough to become the number two ranked defense in terms of yards allowed in the league.  The loss of Darby, Gilmore, Z. Brown, P. Brown, Dareus, and Gaines hasn't shown much on the field  Our rushing defense was still middle of the pack but I expect it to improve as Edmunds and Phillips develop.

 

Offensively (like Whaley), it's been a mixed bag as we've taken a step back.  We've had bad luck with Wood and Incognito retiring unexpectedly.  Also, the Boldin situation was weird and Matthews was a waste as part of that Darby trade.  The loss of Woods and Glenn showed last year as those were our two weakest units.  Zay Jones looks like a bad pick and we'll need to see drastic improvement to justify  moving up for him.  Josh Allen had encouraging signs last year, but it's going to be another year or two to see if he was the right pick.  Reuben Foster could be a diamond in the rough if he continues to improve and Dawkins seems like a solid pick who I'd like to be seen moved to guard.  How they do both in adding talent the next two offseasons and how the young players develop will decide McBeane's fate.

[GreggTX]

The rest are negotiable, but please extend Jerry Hughes and draft a beast to replace Kyle or sign one of the top 2 FA DT's.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 2/16/2019 at 10:58 PM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I have a feeling even with an upgraded O-Line Shady is going to be really bad.

May the fleas of 1000 camels infest your armpits 

 

This is what happens in a rebuild.   

 

Get R Done Beane !!!! 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

26 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

May the fleas of 1000 camels make their nest in your crotch

 

ftfy.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

19 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

ftfy.

 

Well, I guess that's what a generation removed gets you

 

Botched insults   

 

"May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits" - Johnny Carson

[freddyjj]

On 2/16/2019 at 10:39 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And it seems each and every one of the remaining players is/has been integral to McBeane's plans.

 

Claims Shady will stay.

 

Lorax & Ferguson extension.

 

Talking Shaq up.

 

Hughes is a wrecking ball and better be extended.

 

Crazy.

Wow that is amazing!

Shady and Hughes were best trades made by each respective prior regime (Nix and Whaley).  

Lorax was best FA signed by Whaley in Rex tenure.

Shaq was most questionable 1st Rd pick by Rex regime.

Ferguson was signed/waived/re-signed to PS in Rex's last year.

 

The 2013-2015 draft choices should be the core of today's Bills.  Sadly they are not.  So the new regime is trying to assemble a strong young core that will develop together.  This year's FA period and draft will be telling.

[oldmanfan]

The coach and GM felt the players that were her when they got here were not the guys that could eventually win.  So they got rid of them.  Some I agree with, such as Dareus - how anyone can disagree that getting rid of a big tub of goo that did not want to play hard and was pulling down top dollar is beyond me.  Some I did not agree with and still don't - prime example being Watkins although the money he's now getting to be an essential 3rd or 4th option in KC's offense is mind numbing. 

 

But this is what coaches and GM's do - when they are interviewed for these jobs they have ideas and plans for how they want to build a championship team, and then once hired execute their plan.  McD and Beane have a clear idea of what they want in a team.  They want guys dedicated to the game, and that will give maximum effort toward that goal.  In that respect it is similar to Belichick's model - just do your job.  They have started to put pieces together, they have the young QBs for both sides of the ball in Allen and Edmunds, some nice parts on defense, and they have work to do on the offensive side.  They will use this offseason to address those. How successfully, we'll see.  So they now have cleared away cap space as well as guys they didn't want, and their job now is to show they can get the guys they want, and to coach them in a way that leads to success.  Whether they do so or not will dictate whether they are viewed as heroes in WNY, or whether they are bounced out a couple years from now.

 

That's the way the NFL and really any professional (and for that matter college) team works.

[BillsVet]

It's setting in for a lot of people that, even with all that cap room and their usual complement of higher picks, they're not going to suddenly go from 6 to 11 wins this season. And, that building an offense in one off-season isn't realistic.

 

I'm interested to see what ownership thinks if this team is .500 next year and misses the playoffs.  Homers can sit here and bang the patience drum as they have for a decade plus, but ownership isn't so kind. I doubt the Pegula's listened gleefully as McBeane told them after 2017 that it was a 4 year rebuild. 

 

[eball]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

It's setting in for a lot of people that, even with all that cap room and their usual complement of higher picks, they're not going to suddenly go from 6 to 11 wins this season. And, that building an offense in one off-season isn't realistic.

 

I'm interested to see what ownership thinks if this team is .500 next year and misses the playoffs.  Homers can sit here and bang the patience drum as they have for a decade plus, but ownership isn't so kind. I doubt the Pegula's listened gleefully as McBeane told them after 2017 that it was a 4 year rebuild. 

 

 

Just because you keep saying it, Trumpian-style, doesn't make it true.

[teef]

13 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

It's setting in for a lot of people that, even with all that cap room and their usual complement of higher picks, they're not going to suddenly go from 6 to 11 wins this season. And, that building an offense in one off-season isn't realistic.

 

I'm interested to see what ownership thinks if this team is .500 next year and misses the playoffs.  Homers can sit here and bang the patience drum as they have for a decade plus, but ownership isn't so kind. I doubt the Pegula's listened gleefully as McBeane told them after 2017 that it was a 4 year rebuild. 

 

this seems a bit over the top and bitter.  it's a game people.  have fun with it.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

this seems a bit over the top and bitter.  it's a game people.  have fun with it.

 

For some, apparently, "fun" means telling everyone things suck and doing so under the guise of "unbiased reality."

 

I bet they're a hoot at parties.