Josh Allen has been working with Jordan Palmer with McDermott's blessing

[LSHMEAB]

9 minutes ago, dakrider said:

 

I think Allen's touch on short throws is fine.

Well then, we just fundamentally disagree. He doesn't need to throw every ball 100 MPH. My hunch is that this is something that he'll work hard to improve whether it be with Palmer or Culley.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, dakrider said:

 

I think Allen's touch on short throws is fine.  I think he needs to work on his timing for the quick slant passes, but not sure if thats something he would be doing with Palmer.  

 

This I agree with.

 

Allen's bigest problem isn't accuracy, it's consistently throwing it on time in the context of the offensive plays. He isn't choosing to hold onto the ball completely and not throw it, but he definitely hesitates. And not all the time, but enough where it's something he should be consciously working on this offseason.

 

And I wonder if McDermott's comments on terminology and everything is an indication that maybe the Bills brass truly is kinda working under the table with a wink and a nod to work on subtle things like that.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Well then, we just fundamentally disagree. He doesn't need to throw every ball 100 MPH. My hunch is that this is something that he'll work hard to improve whether it be with Palmer or Culley.

 

Allen doesn't throw every ball 100 MPH, and disregarding the obvious hyperbole, he doesn't even throw every ball crazy fast.

 

He could use more touch on occasion.

 

That's all you need to say.

[LSHMEAB]

13 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Allen doesn't throw every ball 100 MPH, and disregarding the obvious hyperbole, he doesn't even throw every ball crazy fast.

 

He could use more touch on occasion.

 

That's all you need to say.

Truthful hyperbole is all the rage these days. No. He does not throw every ball 100 MPH, but his greatest opportunity for improvement is touch on the gimmies. I think it's reasonable to assume that's something he'll focus on.

[Prickly Pete]

I hope they work on pump fakes.

 

I can't recall Allen using any "planned" pump fakes (only when he was about to take off and run), and I think it would be an effective tool to stutter up a CB and get the WR some steps downfield for a deep throw.

 

Ben Rothelisberger uses them quite a bit, as do Brady and Brees. I realize it takes a bit more pocket time, and line play is a factor, but it's something I would like to see incorporated.

Edited January 26, 2019 by OJ Tom

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Truthful hyperbole is all the rage these days. No. He does not throw every ball 100 MPH, but his greatest opportunity for improvement is touch on the gimmies. I think it's reasonable to assume that's something he'll focus on.

 

I disagree strongly.

 

Allen's greatest opportunity for improvement is a mastery of Daboll's offense, particularly in the short to intermediate passing game so he can make quick, decisive throws.

 

Frankly the RBs, WRs and TEs just need to be able to catch the damn catchable passes that come to them.

[#34fan]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 3:10 PM, Herc11 said:

 

So how was Belicheks pro football career as a player? Oh that's right he never played pro football cause he wasn't any good in college. Being a good player has nothing to do with coaching ability.

 

 

Belichick:

Coached 42 years, for 7 pro teams, won 2 superbowls as a coordinator, and 5 superbowls as head coach.

 

Jordan Palmer:

7-year NFL QB who started 0 games, and racked up 11 career completions.

 

Hint:  One's a real coach, the other's just a failed QB looking for work.

 

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 1:39 AM, oldmanfan said:

Define what a coach is in your mind.

 

JMO, but teachers provide information, and instruction with no real plan for you to be ultimately successful. 

 

Er go,  you might still fail.  A good coach actively prevents your failure with a plan for you to succeed.  His money is in guaranteed results.

 

-Or should be.  

 

[FearLess Price]

This is good news. Sometimes people jus like to be all rainy and *****.

[Philly’sFinest]

This is good news.

 

One because he’s sticking with the guy from last off season. And secondly, because he clearly made some improvement in his mechanics under Palmer’s guidance.

 

Stick with the guys that know you and that have clearly helped you. 

 

Familiarity with the coaches and Palmer equals more improvement and better results IMO

[Doc]

9 hours ago, OJ Tom said:

I hope they work on pump fakes.

 

I can't recall Allen using any "planned" pump fakes (only when he was about to take off and run), and I think it would be an effective tool to stutter up a CB and get the WR some steps downfield for a deep throw.

 

Ben Rothelisberger uses them quite a bit, as do Brady and Brees. I realize it takes a bit more pocket time, and line play is a factor, but it's something I would like to see incorporated.

 

I recall several planned pump fakes during the season.  I was impressed and took note because he was a rookie.

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Mahomes has a synergy with his coaching,  and surrounding players. Like Tom Brady

If we had 'em, we might've ruined him. ☺️

Lot of folks think greatness overcomes impediments or they say, "Well, maybe not as great numbers, but he'd still be terrific." And because you can't disprove (or prove) a counter-factual, it's impossible to refute. I think fortune plays a large role in destiny. No one can anticipate exactly how an individual will react in different circumstances or project a freak injury. I am not convinced Mahomes would have experienced success here, though I lobbied for us to draft him. What we know: Mahomes was given a red-shirt year to learn, surrounded by excellent coaching and offensive personnel. We also know Allen was thought to need a redshirt year, was thrown into the fire with not much surrounding help. I think his performance was clearly improved after returning from injury. There's reason to be hopeful Allen will be a genuine franchise qb. Everything else is guesswork. 

 

 

[Elite Poster]

Nothing but good. 

[Punching Bag]

On 1/23/2019 at 6:10 AM, CSBill said:

Tyree Jackson = 6-foot-7, 245-pound ... our next TE?

This is a good idea with giving him reps with QBs as well so he could do some option plays especially on short yardage situations.

On 1/23/2019 at 9:33 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It seemed like Allen took steps between the Wyoming season and the Sr Bowl/regular season so hopefully it will continue to help!  The only thing I would like better would be the news if he had some of our WR with him, Foster and Zay.

 

Since Foster was an UDFA Allen could offer to pay for his airfare to help him bind.

[Punching Bag]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:40 AM, PaattMaann said:

Love hearing about all players working their butts off to improve all the time. Not surprised by this as Josh has already proven he is DRIVEN to get better at his craft. Great and expected. 

 

Jerry Rice was a big advocate of working out during offseason and look how he turned out.

https://jamesclear.com/jerry-rice

 

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

 

Belichick:

Coached 42 years, for 7 pro teams, won 2 superbowls as a coordinator, and 5 superbowls as head coach.

 

Jordan Palmer:

7-year NFL QB who started 0 games, and racked up 11 career completions.

 

Hint:  One's a real coach, the other's just a failed QB looking for work.

 

 

JMO, but teachers provide information, and instruction with no real plan for you to be ultimately successful. 

 

Er go,  you might still fail.  A good coach actively prevents your failure with a plan for you to succeed.  His money is in guaranteed results.

 

-Or should be.  

 

The Bills HC has seemingly given his approval to Allen working with him. Also last year after working with him there did seem to be a visible improvement to his mechanics.

 

So is your logic that Jordan Palmer can't be successful at teaching/training QBs because he hasn't already been successful at it? How does anyone start to do anything in your world?

[Punching Bag]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:51 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not 100% on the NFL rules here - for rookie minicamp, do we pretty much have to bring in a couple camp arms, or is it allowed to have one or more of the QB on the roster be there?

 

Jordan Palmer, someone we have been discussing in thread, got signed in just one of those mini-camps.

 

 

Teams can have their drafted rookies, undrafted rookies and players who weren't on the roster long enough last year to gain one year of vesting participate. To make the camps work, though, teams bring in a dozen to two dozen tryout players to fill out positions.

On 1/23/2019 at 11:07 AM, The Red King said:

 

He had receivers that dropped an inordinate amount of catches, never fought for the ball, and tripped over the goal line coming out of the endzone at Wyoming as well? ?

 

He did carry team when at Wyoming. Where he was out game winds went down.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

 

Belichick:

Coached 42 years, for 7 pro teams, won 2 superbowls as a coordinator, and 5 superbowls as head coach.

 

Jordan Palmer:

7-year NFL QB who started 0 games, and racked up 11 career completions.

 

Hint:  One's a real coach, the other's just a failed QB looking for work.

 

 

JMO, but teachers provide information, and instruction with no real plan for you to be ultimately successful. 

 

Er go,  you might still fail.  A good coach actively prevents your failure with a plan for you to succeed.  His money is in guaranteed results.

 

-Or should be.  

 

so Josh must be just wasting his time then according to this cold take

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJB]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

 

Belichick:

Coached 42 years, for 7 pro teams, won 2 superbowls as a coordinator, and 5 superbowls as head coach.

 

Jordan Palmer:

7-year NFL QB who started 0 games, and racked up 11 career completions.

 

Hint:  One's a real coach, the other's just a failed QB looking for work.

 

 

JMO, but teachers provide information, and instruction with no real plan for you to be ultimately successful. 

 

Er go,  you might still fail.  A good coach actively prevents your failure with a plan for you to succeed.  His money is in guaranteed results.

 

-Or should be.  

 

 

Wait so because  Palmer never started any games that's  a negative ,  but Belichek  never even attempting  a pass isn't a negative ? 

 

Come on dude. 

[Punching Bag]

On 1/24/2019 at 4:36 PM, oldmanfan said:

You are acting like someone who claims the sky is purple.  Countless numbers of people give you solid explanations as to why the sky is blue, and you just keep saying the sky is purple no matter what.

 

I'll give you the same data I've given you before.  You throw thirty passes in a game  about two completions change you from 52% to 60%.  So take away one throwaway and one drop and there you are.

 

Doesn't matter if other QBs have these as well.  Doesn't matter at all what other QBs do past or present.  All that matters to you is Allen increasing his percent.  If you're going to continue to cling to this completion percentage thing, and continue to ignore that accuracy and completion percentage are not equivalent, all that matters is two passes a game.  Give him a couple receivers that don't drop easy catches or make tough ones, and voila- you have your magic number. 

 

Yes Allen can get better.  Yes he is already working to do so.  But drop this nonsense about completion percentage.  Enough already.

 

Evidently there is a hurricane in his area.

The Reason Behind the Purple Skies That Appeared After Hurricane Michael

https://interestingengineering.com/the-reason-behind-the-purple-skies-that-appeared-after-hurricane-michael

On 1/24/2019 at 4:46 PM, LSHMEAB said:

Like you, I don't understand why this is even a debate. I think we all know he needs to work on his short game. Or at least I thought we did.

 

Yes he had issue with short passes especially touch ones requiring less velocity.  I think this is partially why Bills game plans had a lot more longer balls which themselves have higher difficulty and more likely to completion to fail.

[Punching Bag]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:07 AM, oldmanfan said:

A classic example is that there is a correlation between high school test scores and the amount of ice cream that students eat in a given year.  Pretty strong positive correlation, with a correlation coefficient of around 0.6.

 

I ate a lot of ice cream and got high marks including highest SAT score in school (math).  I see the correlation.

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I recall several planned pump fakes during the season.  I was impressed and took note because he was a rookie.

 

He also looked off several DBs getting them to bite wrong way.  It is something you do not see a lot in rookies.

[Bangarang]

How does this thread have so many pages!? How much discussion could this topic possibly bring?

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

JMO, but teachers provide information, and instruction with no real plan for you to be ultimately successful. 

 

Er go,  you might still fail.  A good coach actively prevents your failure with a plan for you to succeed.  His money is in guaranteed results.

 

-Or should be.  

 

 

So you seem to acknowledge here that Palmer is a good teacher, but not a coach.

 

Well, lucky for us he's actually coordinating with Allen's coach

[#34fan]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The Bills HC has seemingly given his approval to Allen working with him.

 

The happy-clapper has gotten a few other things wrong as well.

 

28 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

there did seem to be a visible improvement to his mechanics.

 

Where?  -In his legs?

 

29 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

So is your logic that Jordan Palmer can't be successful at teaching/training QBs because he hasn't already been successful at it? How does anyone start to do anything in your world?

 

Start where everyone starts...  Assistant, Assistant coordinator, Coordinator, etc. -NOT with the future of my franchise who I traded two whole rounds to get.

 

Sadly. that means actual accountability to management, and Palmer hasn't grown those kind of balls yet.

  

Better to declare yourself a guru, then watch the rubes line up.

39 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

Wait so because  Palmer never started any games that's  a negative ,  but Belichek  never even attempting  a pass isn't a negative ? 

 

 

  The 9 AFC championships mitigate the 0 passing attempt thing.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, #34fan said:

The happy-clapper has gotten a few other things wrong as well.

Conversely he's also gotten things right.

3 minutes ago, #34fan said:

Where?  -In his legs?

You mean that area he's been known to need work in...yeah...did I miss something were there complaints about his upper body mechanics because I've missed those.

 

4 minutes ago, #34fan said:

Start where everyone starts...  Assistant, Assistant coordinator, Coordinator, etc. -NOT with the future of my franchise who I traded two whole rounds to get.

 

Sadly. that means actual accountability to management, and Palmer hasn't grown those kind of balls yet.

  

Better to declare yourself a guru, then watch the rubes line up.

There was a niche where college QBs wanted to get ready for draft/NFL that he's filling I don't see why I should count that against him.

[Punching Bag]

11 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

How does this thread have so many pages!? How much discussion could this topic possibly bring?

 

Posters adding useless comments?

[#34fan]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

There was a niche where college QBs wanted to get ready for draft/NFL that he's filling I don't see why I should count that against him.

 

And I don't see why a failed QB who's never held a 'coaching' job with any pro team should be molding my franchise QB.

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

so Josh must be just wasting his time then according to this cold take.

 

Yah... Possibly even getting worse.

[Buffalo716]

I expected this and it should continue the proper development of Joshs game...

 

I don’t expect to draft Tyree Jackson, even in the 5th-6th round 

 

we have 2 backups signed already who will be better prepared than Jackson next year. That leaves him 4th on the DC... we aren’t keeping 4 QBs

 

he would have to be added to the PS and at that point he would be scooped probably...I see him going mid round 5

[Warcodered]

25 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

And I don't see why a failed QB who's never held a 'coaching' job with any pro team should be molding my franchise QB.

 

Yah... Possibly even getting worse.

because he seems to of been able to help him improve his mechanics in the past.

[bg17]

45 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

And I don't see why a failed QB who's never held a 'coaching' job with any pro team should be molding my franchise QB.

 

Yah... Possibly even getting worse.

Exactly. I don’t know how Tom House stays in business. He was a pitcher for crying out loud!

 

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-explains-why-he-worked-throwing-coach-tom-house-last-week

[oldmanfan]

51 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

And I don't see why a failed QB who's never held a 'coaching' job with any pro team should be molding my franchise QB.

 

Yah... Possibly even getting worse.

I don't think you have any concept of coaching.  Or teaching.

[#34fan]

14 minutes ago, bg17 said:

Exactly. I don’t know how Tom House stays in business. He was a pitcher for crying out loud!

 

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-explains-why-he-worked-throwing-coach-tom-house-last-week

 

Tom House. -The successful pitcher turned Phd. who actually coached for a half-dozen professional organizations.

 

 Keep comparing apples to kumquats.

 

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I don't think you have any concept of coaching.  Or teaching.

 

Maybe I should be working with Allen.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by #34fan

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, #34fan said:

Tom House. -The successful pitcher turned Phd. who actually coached for a half-dozen professional organizations.

 

 Keep comparing apples to kumquats.

 

 

Maybe I should be working with Allen.

 

Jamarcus Russell wouldn't even work with you.

[#34fan]

35 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

because he seems to of been able to help him improve his mechanics in the past.

 

A homeless guy turned me on to a great cold remedy once. -Should he be my doctor?

Just now, Doc said:

 

Jamarcus Russell wouldn't even work with you.

 

Jamarcus Russell?  -The QB coach?

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

A homeless guy turned me on to a great cold remedy once. -Should he be my doctor?

That's a terrible analogy. Was he a failed Doctor no wait was he a Doctor that failed to be one of the top 100 doctors in the world because that's about the only way to make that analogy work.

[#34fan]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

That's a terrible analogy.

 

 Says the guy who compared Jordan palmer to Bill Belichick!

[Boca BIlls]

1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

The happy-clapper has gotten a few other things wrong as well.

 

 

Where?  -In his legs?

 

 

Start where everyone starts...  Assistant, Assistant coordinator, Coordinator, etc. -NOT with the future of my franchise who I traded two whole rounds to get.

 

Sadly. that means actual accountability to management, and Palmer hasn't grown those kind of balls yet.

  

Better to declare yourself a guru, then watch the rubes line up.

 

  The 9 AFC championships mitigate the 0 passing attempt thing.

BB got the opportunity before he won 9 AFC Championships... so before he did all of that he was garbage right?

[oldmanfan]

43 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

Tom House. -The successful pitcher turned Phd. who actually coached for a half-dozen professional organizations.

 

 Keep comparing apples to kumquats.

 

 

Maybe I should be working with Allen.

 

 

 

If your definition of a coach is that he or she has to work or have worked for a professional team, then you need to lay off the weed for a while.

[foreboding]

On 1/23/2019 at 3:13 PM, mattynh said:

Allen struggle to complete 50% and it was not because of the WR's.    He needs a lot of work on consistency/accuracy.   And he needs a lot of work in the short passing game also.

Lol

 Right cause our wr only dropped 3 to 4 balls per game, drive enders. Did you watch the games??

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

 Says the guy who compared Jordan palmer to Bill Belichick!

I'm not sure you're paying attention because I never did that.

 

Also I'm pretty sure their point was that Bill Belichick has never played in the NFL and yet is still a good coach.

So just because Jordan Palmer wasn't a successful QB in the NFL doesn't mean he isn't a good QB coach.

[#34fan]

12 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

BB got the opportunity before he won 9 AFC Championships... so before he did all of that he was garbage right?

 

BB started by getting a real  Job for an NFL team.  -He wasn't some hack peddling his meager position knowledge as a 'side hustle'.  

 

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If your definition of a coach is that he or she has to work or have worked for a professional team, then you need to lay off the weed for a while.

 

I also prefer lawyers who've been in front of judges before.  Shocking, I know.