racketmaster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bill Murray said: as a fan of the league, the one thing that is AMAZING is that between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, and then throw in Mahomes and Deshaun Watson, all these QBs are in the AFC. Years and years to come of marquee QB matchups reminiscent of Kelly, Marino, Elway, Moon, Kosar, Esiason etc. Unfortunately for us Bills fans, it makes the road to the super bowl more difficult for years to come, but at least should be a treat to watch. We have had Big Ben, Peyton Manning, Rivers and of course Brady over the past decade and a half. Manning is retired and the others have a few years left at best. The good thing is that the Bills look to have one of the good young quarterbacks and that will make things a whole lot more interesting for us as opposed to trying to beat the elite guys with average to below average quarterbacking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bill Murray said: as a fan of the league, the one thing that is AMAZING is that between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, and then throw in Mahomes and Deshaun Watson, all these QBs are in the AFC. Years and years to come of marquee QB matchups reminiscent of Kelly, Marino, Elway, Moon, Kosar, Esiason etc. Unfortunately for us Bills fans, it makes the road to the super bowl more difficult for years to come, but at least should be a treat to watch. Right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Haha, I’m guessing you don’t like Rosen. How anyone can try to project this guys at this point is crazy. The only one I can say 100% I feel like is a definite franchise guy at this point is Mayfield, and I won’t be shocked if he did something dumb and get in a bunch of trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Josh Allen - hall of fame Sam Darnold - hall of very good Rosen - Hall of Ryan Leaf Jackson - Hall of RG3/Tim Tebow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Haha, I’m guessing you don’t like Rosen. How anyone can try to project this guys at this point is crazy. The only one I can say 100% I feel like is a definite franchise guy at this point is Mayfield, and I won’t be shocked if he did something dumb and get in a bunch of trouble. I wanted him on draft night and was visibly upset with my friends when we drafted Allen. Rosen was my guy and frankly I want him to do well. But as I said above his issues are not self inflicted and go right to his front office/coaching. No QB would survive that firing line of an OL and historically QB's hit this much and bad do not succeed. Plus Arizona in general is very directionless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Josh Allen - Josh Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Josh Allen - John Skelton ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: I agree with the point of your post, however I would argue 90% or more of Bills fans wanted Rosen. The we there I was referring to was the team, not we the fans. I think any guy team management didn't want we as fans will hope our guy is better than & are rooting for management's decision to have been the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 7 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: We need our version of Moss (who I doubt will be as good, certainly can't expect that) to help Allen out. Ideally we hit on someone big in the draft! maybe we already have him, in Robert Foster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Some good points on this thread so I'll just throw out some random thoughts on the topic: * Way to early to write off Rosen but the Cards are now close to doing permanent damage to their rookie. What has surprised me the most is that if you had asked me in preseason which QB is most in danger of being mishandled and ruined I would have answered Allen. I'm happy that I was wrong. * While I think the Bills screwed up Allen's preseason by not giving him more reps with the 1st team, IMO Dabold has done a terrific job with the rookie. Let's not forget that while we chastise the Cards for throwing Rosen to the wolves the Bills threw Allen to the wolves at the start of this season. We had just lost to Baltimore 40 - 3 with an offense that didn't gain a 1st down in the first half and now we were starting our project rookie QB in week 2 against a Super Bowl contender. Even worse there was no veteran QB on the roster to work with Allen. Given that during the off season Dabold did not develop our offense for Allen, our current situation is quite good and our rookie QB has survived his first test by fire. I hope we have Dabold next year. * Mayfield is heads & tails above the other rookie QB's but I have a sneaking suspicion that he's also a lot closer to his ceiling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, corta765 said: With two weeks to go in the season we have a pretty good sample for all of the QB's in the big 5 of Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, & Jackson. So after year 1 this is where I see each of these QB's pacing/turning into. Mind you things change rapidly so if Mayfield collapses into a black hole of awful play it can happen, this is just off the first season. Baker Mayfield- John Elway/Steve Young hybrid. With all due respect for Allen who is incredibly fun to watch, Mayfield is something else to watch at QB. From the moment he has taken over as the QB the Browns are 6-6 and he his been amazing to see make plays all over. His growth is certainly evident and his mobility strikes me as watching Young or Elway with his eyes always looking downfield to beat you along with a competitive fire that is infectious as all hell. Good for the long suffering fans of Cleveland and I hope he turns into a great like these two (just not at the expense of the Bills SB chances lol). Of any of these QB's becoming an all timer Baker after year 1 would be the easy bet. Sam Darnold- Tony Romo. Like Allen who had to miss time and comeback stronger Darnold has done exactly that. Rival or not Darnold certainly has had his moments and the last few games really has shown some great play. His propensity to make big plays but turn the ball over reminds me of Tony Romo who could do a ton and really had a good feel for the offense. He isn't a fiery leader like Mayfield/Allen but with some more talent around him he could make the Jets a contender for a decade. Josh Allen- Cam Newton + Brett Farve lite. The kid can ball, I was a Rosen guy admittedly but even I am have been impressed with his growth and talent. He has Cam's size and playmaking mixed with Farve's fire, arm, and just general ability to make you go are you kidding me. I don't think Allen will ever be the most accurate QB but he will improve enough to be a mix of these two. Farve is an all time great I don't know if Allen can hit that stratosphere at this point, but I think he will be really good like Newton who is successful and Farve was a QB you had to watch because of his ability to say holy sh*t how did he do that for both good and some bad. Josh Rosen- David Carr/Joey Harrington. The list of QB's who have succeeded after getting beat up the way he has and with such instability at coach/FO is not long. Situation matters big time for a QB and watching Rosen it just feels like a guy being thrown to the wolves and it's up to him to figure it out. What is most worrisome with Rosen is the fact his play has actually declined from the start of the season. He was never said to be the leader the previous three were and his best talents being quick release and accuracy are being wasted in this offense. Outside of a coach like Bruce Arains coming back or some other QB whisperer coming in with a fast west coast style attack I just do not see him making it. Lamar Jackson- Taller Doug Flutie + Steve McNair lite. He certainly is fun to watch and Baltimore is managing his first season perfectly so he can make plays but is not put in a bad situation. Watching him makes me think of what Doug Flutie could've been like if he was taller and I think his ceiling could be close to McNair who was a superb QB who could move but tear you up passing wise. I am not sure Jackson will be as accurate as a McNair but like Allen I think he can do enough where it doesn't really matter and your winning with a good QB. My major question with Jackson is what happens when he spied regularly and asked to throw more then 25 times in a game? Allen was faced with this question and did well against the Lions and against the Dolphins where he basically willed the team solo while throwing for 33 times. I would be very intrigued to see what a coach like Sean McVay or possible future coach like Lincoln Riley would do with a player like Jackson. Mayfield/Steve Young or Brees I can see hes nothing like Elway. There is a reason Allen is compared to Elway. Lamar Jackson-Randle Cunningham maybe. What your basically doing saying is Steve Kerr is the same player as Michael Jordan and The Jolley Green Giant is a similar character to the Leoprocan for Lucky charms. Edited December 20, 2018 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 12 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Pretty good analysis, especially on Josh Rosen, i can see the David Carr analogy and him being ruined by the Cardinals. His mental toughness and emotional stability were somewhat of a pre-existing issue. On Allen, I would say that he might be the most naturally gifted athlete to every play the position, arguably the strongest arm to ever play. His running ability, at least for the scheme he is in is undeniable and record breaking. He effectively had three 100 yard plus games in a row. Allen is a great leader, willing to work hard, he not only can but i think he should be something special. Give him so receivers that get separation and make circus catches routinely instead of dropping balls and watch how much more "accurate" he gets. His ceiling is as high as any QB i can recall. He "star" WR is a rookie UDFA that we cut once this year, his TE is no longer any good and his O Line is abysmall. Your Allen analysis sounds kinda like Elway. Allen has the highest ceiling I have ever seen as well. It is insane for a QB to have that kind of arm talent and be that mobile. Every team in the AFC is praying he never reaches his potential. Not a playing style comparison or anything but Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield and Trebinsky may be the new Brady, Manning, Brees and Roethlesburger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) I like the comparison of Mayfield to Steve Young. I don't see Elway in him though. I think a better comparison is Allen to Elway. I think their approaches to the position are quite similar. Edited December 20, 2018 by Andy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 18 hours ago, corta765 said: Oh I am not disagreeing with you. Alex Smith for years was incredibly accurate yet he was a fringe Top 12 guy. Chad Pennington was accurate yet didn't have the arm especially after injury so accuracy is not everything. But Allen does miss 5-6 throws a game give or take, I want that down to 2-3 because it makes him more deadly. His floor already feels Taylor esq in terms of offensive production so that's good, but we are in it for his growth and potential. i'm not worried one bit about his %. i'd rather compare him to a cross between elway and kelly. elway / athleticism....kelly / competitive, leadership. anyway, once we get a good line and he gets more time in the pocket, i'm confident he will use it. when we have a good stable of wrs, that will also help. i see no reason why he won't easily go north of 60%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I donno. Let it play out. Goff looked like a joke his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 For me Josh Allen = Big Ben Lite...,He is just hard to bring down like Ben and he can make both great and dumb plays in the same game! 7 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Your Allen analysis sounds kinda like Elway. Allen has the highest ceiling I have ever seen as well. It is insane for a QB to have that kind of arm talent and be that mobile. Every team in the AFC is praying he never reaches his potential. Not a playing style comparison or anything but Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield and Trebinsky may be the new Brady, Manning, Brees and Roethlesburger Rosen will be in that discussion in the long run. He is a very accurate QB who can make you pay once he has the OL to protect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, ganesh said: For me Josh Allen = Big Ben Lite...,He is just hard to bring down like Ben and he can make both great and dumb plays in the same game! Lets hope he doesn't get stupid on motorcycles or start organizing rape parades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 9 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Your Allen analysis sounds kinda like Elway. Allen has the highest ceiling I have ever seen as well. It is insane for a QB to have that kind of arm talent and be that mobile. Every team in the AFC is praying he never reaches his potential. Not a playing style comparison or anything but Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield and Trebinsky may be the new Brady, Manning, Brees and Roethlesburger I saw Elway and Farve play, Allen seems more reckless because he is a gunslinger and feels he can make every throw. I see more Farve in that relation then Elway who was a bit more surgeical and careful with his attack. That's why I said that although I could absolutely see a mix of Elway or Kelly because of his competitive nature and leadership. Only Baker I think matches that type of fire the rest are far more quiet leaders by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, ganesh said: For me Josh Allen = Big Ben Lite...,He is just hard to bring down like Ben and he can make both great and dumb plays in the same game! Rosen will be in that discussion in the long run. He is a very accurate QB who can make you pay once he has the OL to protect him. 45 minutes ago, corta765 said: I saw Elway and Farve play, Allen seems more reckless because he is a gunslinger and feels he can make every throw. I see more Farve in that relation then Elway who was a bit more surgeical and careful with his attack. That's why I said that although I could absolutely see a mix of Elway or Kelly because of his competitive nature and leadership. Only Baker I think matches that type of fire the rest are far more quiet leaders by comparison. Elway had a cannon for an arm and was a bigger QB that was exstremely mobile for his size. Baker is exstremely accurate and does have a strong arm but cant make the throws that Elway could make. Allen can and has made those throws. Dont get me wrong, Mayfield is destined for greatness but he reminds me more of a Steve Young type. Maybe Montana. He is missing the Howitzer on his shoulder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 23 hours ago, Antonio said: Oh boy I hope you are wrong, but I can see them like that as well. I would not mind McNair, but I was never a fan of big Daunte, Moss helped him a loooot. Tiny hands. Fumbled all the damn time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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