Allen vs. Darnold: Analysts Evaluate the Present and Predict the Future

[RosenNOTchosen1]

Darnold is much better than Allen.

 

Those two big passing plays Darnold had in the 4th quarter were just phenomenal. Both were completed with perfect pin point accuracy (something Allen can't do).

 

Jets fans must be feeling good knowing they have the better overall QB.

Edited December 11, 2018 by RosenNOTchosen1

[jlgarsh]

17 hours ago, billspro said:

 

We will just have to disagree, The stats are the stats. They need to improve. I know they will next year. 

 

Allen had at least six drops yesterday, 3 that cost the Bills on third downs. Allen was 6 of 9 on third down throws, with three drops. Let that sink in for a minute. When was the last time the Bills had a QB that could convert third downs? Probably Kelly. 

 

6 drops and 3 throw away we’re the reason for 9 of his incompletions.   

 

Im not saying there were no flaws. Both INTs were bad and probably should have been throw aways. He had three throws which he threw in the dirt. Those plays need to improve next year.

 

This oline is one of the worst units in Bills history. They allowed pressure on 50% of drop backs yesterday and Josh seemed to be hit on most of his completions. His best WR is a WR4 on every other team in the league and only has backup quality TEs. He basically carried the offence on his back, this is still the same group that had one of the worst DVOAs in league history, they just have a good QB now. I doubt there is a QB in the league that could have good stats with this group.

 

I agree with all of this except Foster has a higher ceiling.  Wasn't he one of the top WRs in high school prior to college? The talent's always been there, just not the results.

[liverpoolkev]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:21 PM, Bob in STL said:

Ok, without Allen the Bills lose by a lot and never even have a lead.  Allen did a lot with his feet.  His passing was ok, but the fumble, the INTs are  big negative.  He had a few good throws and a few bad ones. 

 

Darnold won on the road.  He had two great drives in the 4th quarter for TDs to come from behind.  Sure he had good field position most of the game.  Sure He had time to throw and he took what was there.  He looked poised and made fewer bad plays than Allen.

 

Buffalo was supposed to have a strong defense and a loud home crowd.  Darnold had no pressure and the crowd was not a factor. 

 

Round 1 to Darnold. 

 

 

"Ok, without Allen the Bills lose by a lot and never even have a lead.  Allen did a lot with his feet.  His passing was ok, but the fumble, the INTs are  big negative.  He had a few good throws and a few bad ones"    really ---  Matt Barkly would disagree;  all Josh has to do is pass the ball more efficiently . I don't need a running QB I need an accurate QB someone who don't run because he cant make his second read; someone that can accurately throw a simple flare out 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Darnold is much better than Allen.

 

Those two big passing plays Darnold had in the 4th quarter were just phenomenal. Both were completed with perfect pin point accuracy (something Allen can't do).

 

Jets fans must be feeling good knowing they have the better overall QB.

No, no he's not.  Hes a blockhead.   

 

Based on your name  ...   If you weren't so biased  you'd see that.   

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[PearlHowardman]

On 12/11/2018 at 4:26 AM, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Darnold is much better than Allen.

 

Those two big passing plays Darnold had in the 4th quarter were just phenomenal. Both were completed with perfect pin point accuracy (something Allen can't do).

 

Jets fans must be feeling good knowing they have the better overall QB.

 

This^

 

[Roundybout]

On 12/11/2018 at 4:26 AM, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Darnold is much better than Allen.

 

Those two big passing plays Darnold had in the 4th quarter were just phenomenal. Both were completed with perfect pin point accuracy (something Allen can't do).

 

Jets fans must be feeling good knowing they have the better overall QB.

 

Couldn't do it today oh well

[Phil The Thrill]

9 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Couldn't do it today oh well

 

Exactly.... some Bills fans.  I tell ya ?

[Bleedingreennc]

On 12/11/2018 at 12:12 PM, ShadyBillsFan said:

No, no he's not.  Hes a blockhead.   

 

Based on your name  ...   If you weren't so biased  you'd see that.   

 

Blockhead? Very intelligent comment. He did what he had to do to win the game. Field position didn’t matter, he took what was given to him.

1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Couldn't do it today oh well

True, but he showed much poise. Let’s see Allen’s stats tomorrow.

[John from Riverside]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:26 AM, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Darnold is much better than Allen.

 

Those two big passing plays Darnold had in the 4th quarter were just phenomenal. Both were completed with perfect pin point accuracy (something Allen can't do).

 

Jets fans must be feeling good knowing they have the better overall QB.

No he isnt

[Patriot Killa]

Darnold just spread the ball to 9 different targets and 7 of them were back up players. He showed the ability to elevate the play of the trash around him. That’s the mark of a franchise QB

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, Bleedingreennc said:

Blockhead? Very intelligent comment. He did what he had to do to win the game. Field position didn’t matter, he took what was given to him.

True, but he showed much poise. Let’s see Allen’s stats tomorrow.

"Poise"

 

Oh boy

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Darnold just spread the ball to 9 different targets and 7 of them were back up players. He showed the ability to elevate the play of the trash around him. That’s the mark of a franchise QB

"Trash around him"

 

That Robbie guy really sucks......could you put in a word that the jets dont really need him and low tender him?  I promise will talk to the bills and not offer him a contract.

[Patriot Killa]

17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

"Poise"

 

Oh boy

"Trash around him"

 

That Robbie guy really sucks......could you put in a word that the jets dont really need him and low tender him?  I promise will talk to the bills and not offer him a contract.

Robby is literally the only player that is any good and he wasn’t even linking up with Darnold until a few weeks ago. He is one of 2 starters out of 9 that caught passes from Darnold today.

 

Andre Roberts is our KR/PR and he’s a terrible WR

 

Kearse has been god awful all year.

 

Enunwa was inactive

 

Herndon is a 4th round rookie TE(the only other starter)

 

Leggett is a back up TE

 

Rashird Mathews was signed two weeks ago and has been nonexistent.

 

Tomlinson is a back up blocking TE

 

McGuire is a 3rd string RB before injuries to Powell and Crowell.

 

Cannon is a 4th string RB

 

So spare me on the BS notion that he had talent around him. He did this all while being forced to play one dimensional because the run game was nonexistent today.

 

The kid just got to where the center wasn’t botching snaps and making him chase the ball every play. His Right Tackle just tore his ACL and the rest of the OL ranks nearly first in pressures and the WR’s are 10th in drops.

 

Darnold grinded out some beautiful plays with, yes, trash around him. Stop being insecure about Allen. He’s good too.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Patriot Killa

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Robby is literally the only player that is any good and he wasn’t even linking up with Darnold until a few weeks ago. He is one of 2 starters out of 9 that caught passes from Darnold today.

 

Andre Roberts is our KR/PR and he’s a terrible WR

 

Kearse has been god awful all year.

 

Enunwa was inactive

 

Herndon is a 4th round rookie TE(the only other starter)

 

Leggett is a back up TE

 

Rashird Mathews was signed two weeks ago and has been nonexistent.

 

Tomlinson is a back up blocking TE

 

McGuire is a 3rd string RB before injuries to Powell and Crowell.

 

Cannon is a 4th string RB

 

So spare me on the BS notion that he had talent around him. He did this all while being forced to play one dimensional because the run game was nonexistent today.

 

The kid just got to where the center wasn’t botching snaps and making him chase the ball every play. His Right Tackle just tore his ACL and the rest of the OL ranks nearly first in pressures and the WR’s are 10th in drops.

Waaa Waaa Waaa.....where the ***** is my violin

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Waaa Waaa Waaa.....where the ***** is my violin

What do I have cry about? My team’s QB was balling tonight. ::shrug:::

[Buffalo716]

On 12/10/2018 at 4:44 PM, Bob in STL said:

 

I don't know who I would of taken if given the choice between Allen or Darnold.  I don't follow college close enough.  I like Allen and I think there is hope for him if we can get him some help. 

 

Darnold looked great when it counted. 

Allen also made a lot of big time throws and gave us the lead... you cannot discount that...

 

He gave the lead to our defense who has to protect a lead.

 

that 61 second 0 TO drive literally means nothing... there was about a 5% chance that could pulled off with 1 Time out and a rookie let alone 0 timeouts ... that needed a miracle 

 

the drive before that Allen was sharp as ever. 

 

I have no biases and he is Playing 100% better than I expected. He should be sitting but he is getting invaluable experience this season which will benefit him in the long run 

 

Put him on KC or LA and people would be calling him a budding superstar... we need to keep him upright and get him weapons. That should be priority #1

[VW82]

I like Dwayne Haskins better than both. That guy is going to be a really good pro. 

[John from Riverside]

35 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

What do I have cry about? My team’s QB was balling tonight. ::shrug:::

Enjoy the loss

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

This^

 

The fact that you agree with him makes his post look even worse

[Patriot Killa]

29 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Enjoy the loss

A loss isn’t something I’m worried about in an already lost season sitting at 4-9. The season is about the rookie QB’s progression and he played fantastic.

 

your team’s season is suppose to be about the same at this point. I guess you didn’t get the memo. 

 

Again, I’m not pressed, Sam balled.

[BigDingus]

On 12/10/2018 at 5:39 AM, Patriot Killa said:

I feel like when I look at a QB with success with such a strong arm, who’s mobile, who doesn’t have the best accuracy..I think of Cam Newton. 

 

Cam Newton has been to a super bowl before. Cam has had success. I think Allen has a very similar playing style/traits and that’s how it could work out for him. 58-59% would be bar minimum. 

But there's so much beyond looks & below 60% accuracy to compare them on that shows the worlds of difference between the two.

Cam in College - Played in the SEC at Auburn, won a national championship, won the Heisman Trophy, was AP college football player of the year, first team All-American, and averaged a 62.9% completion rating through his 4 years. 

Allen in College - Played in the Mountain West, was 2nd team all-Mountain West, never dominated anyone on the field, had no signature wins, played miserably as an individual against any power 5 school, averaged 56.2% completion rating through 3 seasons, regressed his final year at Wyoming, and had a mediocre year overall.

 

Cam in the NFL as a rookie - Won Offensive Rookie of the Year, had a 60% completion rating, threw for over 4,000 yards, and had a positive TD/INT ratio, had an 84.5% Passer Rating and finished 40th on NFL's top 100 list (voted by players). 

 

Allen in the NFL as a rookie - Even more inaccurate, completing just 52.4% of his passes, has the lowest passer rating of all qualifying QB's/lowest QBR on pass attempts, and is the dead-last, worst down field passer in the league by a wide margin (according to ESPN, on passes 16 yards or deeper his passer rating is 36.2 - almost 20 points lower than the next lowest QB). He has more INT's than passing TD's, has as many games with 0 TD passes as he does total TD passes, and is #1 of all QB's this year for Time-to-Throw in the league (average time holding onto the ball before throwing) at 3.28 seconds. Only 2 other Qb's average 3 seconds or more - DeShaun Watson at 3.03 & Russell Wilson at 3.00.

Then you simply just watch with your own eyes, both in college or in the pros, and see worlds of differences between the two. Outside of size & athleticism, there's a huge understanding & skill gap that is difficult to just brush aside.

 

One had all the makings of a great QB in college & the NFL, and played at a high level at both (College - Won Heisman & National Championship; NFL - Offensive Rookie of the Year)

 

The other looks the part & has the physical tools, but has been getting by on "potential," and what he "could" be if only the right coaches could develop him right. So far though, there's no on-field play to suggest he's ever going to meet that potential, only glimpses of what he could do if he had a grasp of the game that equaled his passion for it.

[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

But there's so much beyond looks & below 60% accuracy to compare them on that shows the worlds of difference between the two.

Cam in College - Played in the SEC at Auburn, won a national championship, won the Heisman Trophy, was AP college football player of the year, first team All-American, and averaged a 62.9% completion rating through his 4 years. 

Allen in College - Played in the Mountain West, was 2nd team all-Mountain West, never dominated anyone on the field, had no signature wins, played miserably as an individual against any power 5 school, averaged 56.2% completion rating through 3 seasons, regressed his final year at Wyoming, and had a mediocre year overall.

 

Cam in the NFL as a rookie - Won Offensive Rookie of the Year, had a 60% completion rating, threw for over 4,000 yards, and had a positive TD/INT ratio, had an 84.5% Passer Rating and finished 40th on NFL's top 100 list (voted by players). 

 

Allen in the NFL as a rookie - Even more inaccurate, completing just 52.4% of his passes, has the lowest passer rating of all qualifying QB's/lowest QBR on pass attempts, and is the dead-last, worst down field passer in the league by a wide margin (according to ESPN, on passes 16 yards or deeper his passer rating is 36.2 - almost 20 points lower than the next lowest QB). He has more INT's than passing TD's, has as many games with 0 TD passes as he does total TD passes, and is #1 of all QB's this year for Time-to-Throw in the league (average time holding onto the ball before throwing) at 3.28 seconds. Only 2 other Qb's average 3 seconds or more - DeShaun Watson at 3.03 & Russell Wilson at 3.00.

Then you simply just watch with your own eyes, both in college or in the pros, and see worlds of differences between the two. Outside of size & athleticism, there's a huge understanding & skill gap that is difficult to just brush aside.

 

One had all the makings of a great QB in college & the NFL, and played at a high level at both (College - Won Heisman & National Championship; NFL - Offensive Rookie of the Year)

 

The other looks the part & has the physical tools, but has been getting by on "potential," and what he "could" be if only the right coaches could develop him right. So far though, there's no on-field play to suggest he's ever going to meet that potential, only glimpses of what he could do if he had a grasp of the game that equaled his passion for it.

Are you saying you don’t really fancy the Allen pick and/or don’t really believe he can reach a Cam Newton level?

[Bleedingreennc]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Waaa Waaa Waaa.....where the ***** is my violin

Wow, you really have nothing to add but that?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Are you saying you don’t really fancy the Allen pick and/or don’t really believe he can reach a Cam Newton level?

 

He's a "wrong josh" guy.

 

One of a battalion of them on this board, loud and aggravating.

 

[Roundybout]

14 hours ago, Bleedingreennc said:

Blockhead? Very intelligent comment. He did what he had to do to win the game. Field position didn’t matter, he took what was given to him.

True, but he showed much poise. Let’s see Allen’s stats tomorrow.

 

All I want is for both of our teams to have a damn quarterback. I'm sick of the Pats and ***** the dolphins and Tannehill. 

[Patriot Killa]

36 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

All I want is for both of our teams to have a damn quarterback. I'm sick of the Pats and ***** the dolphins and Tannehill. 

I agree, it’s time to knock them off their throne. Their fan base is filled with smug losers and they deserve a few losing seasons to humble them.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Patriot Killa

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[RocCityRoller]

On 12/16/2018 at 12:48 PM, Patriot Killa said:

I agree, it’s time to knock them off their throne. Their fan base is filled with smug losers and they deserve a few losing seasons to humble them.

 

now this I can agree with

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BillsSB2020]

I could be in the minority here, but I love the moxie our QB shows compared to Sam Darneld. Darnold seems like a bright guy and all but he doesn't have the outstanding physical traits that Josh Allen demonstrates on a weekly basis. Darnold is a heady ballplayer with a lower floor, but the sky is the limit with Josh the rocket Allen.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

Right now Darnold has a better o line and a better receiver core. I'm more worried about them getting talent around Allen. Bills have allot of holes to fill, especially on the o line. You rarely can fill holes on the o line and get a whole new receiving core in one season. I think it's going to take alot longer to build around Allen than darnold.

[PearlHowardman]

9 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I think it's going to take alot longer to build around Allen than darnold.

 

By the looks of things, Darnold doesn't need a whole lot of building around him.  Darnold is THAT good.  JA isn't.

 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

One has the potential to be a scalpel

One has the potential to be a hammer

[Success]

I was hoping for more hot takes...

[26CornerBlitz]

Good game for Darnold today against the Pack.  Let's see how he does in Foxboro next week with the Patriots needing a win for the 2nd seed and a bye. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Good game for Darnold today against the Pack.  Let's see how he does in Foxboro next week with the Patriots needing a win for the 2nd seed and a bye. 

 

Why do you keep posting things that make sense?

 

staaaaahp

 

seriously, I’d also kill for a Robby Anderson right about now 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[CincyBillsFan]

Look other then the fact that Darnold is going to be a thorn in the sides of the Bills for years to come I don't give a damn about him.  I'm glad we have Allen and it's Allen who we need to surround with talent.  Darnold is going to be a very good NFL QB because in addition to his natural talent he will be given the tools to succeed.  I also think Allen will be every bit his equal but I don't have the confidence that this organization will surround him with the necessary talent. 

 

I hope I'm wrong here but this is a staff that thought KB still had gas in the tank.  I really worry that we'll spend a boat load of money on players who are not up to the task.  For sure this current organization has not shown they are a good judge of free agent offensive talent.  Again I hope with a big budget and clear needs they can step up and do the right thing in the draft & free agency.  But I've got a sinking suspicion that they'll sign an over rated WR (don't you dare take Carolina's David Funchess who is one buffet line from being KB) and then draft that LSU corner back with a top 10 pick. 

 

Like I no longer compare our Josh to the other Josh I no longer compare Allen to Darnold.  I've seen enough of Allen to believe he is our guy at QB so all that matters now is that the Bills get him the offensive help he needs.  As for Darnold, I hope he goes into Gillette stadium and throws 4 TD's and 400 yards and beats the Pats.