Josh Allen's progress

[billspro]

2 hours ago, zonabb said:

Honestly want this kid to be the franchise. Love the attitude. Love competitiveness and fire. Love the leadership. Everything a team wants as far as the intangibles. 

 

But with that, I see zero progress, which pains me to say. Still horribly inaccurate. Can't overcome bad OL and WR play when you're at fault a lot for bad passes. Sorry but too much blame being paid to drops and too many "but his adjusted completion percentage..." homers who refuse to let their eyes and not their hearts judge. He's not improved here one bit. Part of that is likely because his footwork is still horrible. Today he threw many bad passes off his back foot, relying on his arm strength but that can't overcome bad mechanics. And I think he's slow to process the game, both pre-snap reads and progressions. 

 

7 TDs in 11 starts is a joke in this league. Part of it is a bad supporting cast but we've seen soooo many QBs with bad players around them at least overcome some of that and show promise. He's been outplayed by Mayfield and Darnold (queue the "they were drafted ahead of him so it's not the Bills fault... not a legit counter when they had draft capital and by all accounts were in love with this guy). And he's not looking better than Rosen. 

 

I'm not saying this because I want him to suck. I just spent about 20 minutes looking up the first few years of some great QBs since 2004, looking for bad rookie years followed by improvement. They exist. I want this guy to be it. But I never wanted him because he was the prototype I hate and rarely every succeeds...physical freak with years of embedded bad habits that are hard to overcome. We're see this now. 

 

If he comes out next week and plays like this again, we go into the offseason wondering what this guy is. Been watching every second of every game because of him and I'm not seeing the progress I had hoped and we're running out of season. If this week's performance is the same next week.... I'm wondering if anyone can honestly say there's improvement?

 

 

Everyone has a different opinion. I have seen way more progress than I expected when we drafted him. I am optimistic he is the franchise.

[34-78-83]

Just now, Looper said:

 

No, I'm in the Allen is a rookie and expect some mistakes brigade. The title in the R-1st article implies he's been making excuses.

I think they meant that in their minds, a developing QB gets one year of excuses then is on the hook 100% for results in year 2....which is not how the teams necessarily look at it at all.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Whatever bud - I'm sure there are others who would read the title and feel the same way.

 

We all know that's not the case as does the writer who covers the team for the Rochester market. 

 

2 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I think they meant that in their minds, a developing QB gets one year of excuses then is on the hook 100% for results in year 2....which is not how the teams necessarily look at it at all.

 

Exactly and he also mentioned Darnold and Rosen moving forward. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

We all know that's not the case as does the writer who' covers the team for the Rochester market. 

 

I knew that was the case before reading the title. 

[Andy1]

3 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

No, I'm in the Allen is a rookie and expect some mistakes brigade. The title in the R-1st article implies he's been making excuses.

It is a stupid title for their little clip. It could just as easily been titled “Allen’s rookie year of learning is almost over”. It is also presumptive that the lack of talent on offense will be fixed in the timeline that they decide. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Looper said:

 

I knew that was the case before reading the title. 

 

You also took it out of context without reading the piece or listening to the embedded video. 

[CincyBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What a complete crock from Thad Brown.  It's not about excuses with most of us.  We're more then willing to admit that Allen has plenty of room to improve.  We also freely accept that today was an average day for him.  The problem is that this sports writer IGNORES all the big plays left on the field by our under-performing WR's & TE's. 

 

He calls out the McKenzie drop as the only mistake by these guys that can't be argued?  Are you kidding me!  The long pass to Foster wasn't a "good deep throw" it was a great read followed by an EXCELLENT deep throw.  What does an 82 yard TD pass there do for the offenses & Allen's confidence and the the outcome of this game?  82 dropped a "tough catch"?  BS - that was a very catchable ball in the NFL.

 

Sure even had his WR's & TE's made the plays today that they should have Allen would still have thrown some bad balls and he would still have a lot of work to do.  He's a rookie for crying out loud.  But if his skill players actually made plays today we would have had an exciting game to watch, Allen's stats would have looked a lot better and most importantly we may have beat the Pats! 

[Seventeen]

Just now, Andy1 said:

It is a stupid title for their little clip. It could just as easily been titled “Allen’s rookie year of learning is almost over”. It is also presumptive that the lack of talent on offense will be fixed in the timeline that they decide. 

 

Exactly 

[billspro]

27 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Anyone that didn't see today's performance coming doesn't watch much football aside from Bills' games.

 

NE was always going to play Man-Spy against us and force out pass catchers to make plays down the field.

 

They failed in spectacular fashion, and so Allen did what Allen does: try way too hard to make things happen.

 

Because, like it or not, he's the team's ENTIRE offense. He once again accounted for 86% of the team's offensive yardage and was victimized by brutal drops.

 

Does that excuse his critical mistakes? Of course not. He had 2 bad INTs and a few bad misses. He bailed at least 3 clean pockets as well. Rookies gonna rookie yo.

 

But anyone that doesn't see a difference between week 1 Josh Allen and Week 16 Josh Allen is blind.

 

Glad to have a voice of reason on here.

[Seventeen]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You also took it out of context without reading the piece or listening to the embedded video. 

 

Why don't you drop it ? Are you the interpretation police ? 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Looper said:

 

Why don't you drop it ? Are you the interpretation police ? 

 

You are apparently since you took offense to it without actually reading it.  Josh can withstand criticism, so maybe you can too. 

[billspro]

10 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Whatever bud - I'm sure there are others who would read the title and feel the same way.

 

It’s a completely bias title.

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You are apparently since you took offense to it without actually reading it.  Josh can withstand criticism, so maybe you can too. 

 

Actually now I remember why I had you blocked before. Thanks.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Looper said:

 

Actually now I remember why I had you blocked before. Thanks.

 

Keep it that way this time. 

[billspro]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

If they had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss then he might have even completed more than 50% of his passes today.

 

Also would have had 100 more yards, 3 more TDs, and a W.

 

Unfortunately, we arguably the worst WR core over the last five years.

[CincyBillsFan]

37 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Anyone that didn't see today's performance coming doesn't watch much football aside from Bills' games.

 

NE was always going to play Man-Spy against us and force out pass catchers to make plays down the field.

 

They failed in spectacular fashion, and so Allen did what Allen does: try way too hard to make things happen.

 

Because, like it or not, he's the team's ENTIRE offense. He once again accounted for 86% of the team's offensive yardage and was victimized by brutal drops.

 

Does that excuse his critical mistakes? Of course not. He had 2 bad INTs and a few bad misses. He bailed at least 3 clean pockets as well. Rookies gonna rookie yo.

 

But anyone that doesn't see a difference between week 1 Josh Allen and Week 16 Josh Allen is blind.

 

This is such a true comment.  Facing press coverage the WR's did not make the plays they needed to downfield.  And yes, the more Allen presses the riskier his passes become.  And why take the check down pass to a stable of RB's who can't break a tackle or make a defender miss?  

 

And they were BRUTAL drops.  Because they occurred at critical times in the game.  The McKenzie drop and Foster not finding that deep pass happened early in the game when the Bills had a chance to get out front and establish some momentum.  Then at several points in the games after the D got a TO and we were moving the ball drops kept us from making it a game and recapturing momentum. 

 

Allen has improved since week 1.  Sure it's an uneven process but the trajectory is clearly in the right direction.  

Edited December 24, 2018 by CincyBillsFan

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This is such a true comment.  Facing press coverage the WR's did not make the plays they needed to downfield.  And yes, the more Allen presses the riskier his passes become.  And why take the check down pass to a stable of RB's who can't break a tackle or make a defender miss?  

 

And they were BRUTAL drops.  Because they occurred at critical times in the game.  The McKenzie drop and Foster not finding deep pass happened early in the game when the Bills had a chance to get out front early and establish some momentum.  Then at several points in the games after the D got a TO and we were moving the ball drops kept us from making it a game and recapturing momentum. 

 

Allen has improved since week 1.  Sure it's an uneven process but the trajectory is clearly in the right direction.  

 

Not today.  Hopefully back on track next week as head into the offseason. 

[Seventeen]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Keep it that way this time. 

 

No prob - all of the threads load much faster.

[SCBills]

Since so many here have a hard on for Mahomes, I’ve already seen like 5 catches his guys have made to extend drives that nobody on our team does.  

 

Give Allen legitimate weapons and you can easily add another 100 yards passing, and probably 2 TD’s to his ledger, in a game where he admittedly struggled to overcome the OL/RB/WR/TE issues. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not today.  Hopefully back on track next week as head into the offseason. 

I really do believe that even today we saw more good things from Allen then bad things.  Some folks have compared this game to the GB game.  But I don't see it.  Allen was much more composed in the pocket and while his 2 INT's were bad they were no where near as bad as the picks he had against the Packers.

 

And when the Packers game ended I don't recall a half dozen big plays/TD plays being left on the field by our WR's & TE's.  Unlike in GB, Allen was getting the ball to his play makers.  the problem is they wern't making any plays.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

If they had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss then he might have even completed more than 50% of his passes today.

 

Surely, but watching other games today I couldn’t help but be struck at the number of teams who have several guys who make those.

Some may become all time greats like Moss and Rice someday, others are just good NFL quality WR and TE

[SCBills]

Oh, there’s Doug Baldwin making a great catch that goes down in the books as a completion, 50 yards and a TD for Russell Wilson.   

 

Lets put that play into the 2018 Josh Allen translator - Beep, Boop, Beep... Result: Incomplete Pass. 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

I really do believe that even today we saw more good things from Allen then bad things.  Some folks have compared this game to the GB game.  But I don't see it.  Allen was much more composed in the pocket and while his 2 INT's were bad they were no where near as bad as the picks he had against the Packers.

 

And when the Packers game ended I don't recall a half dozen big plays/TD plays being left on the field by our WR's & TE's.  Unlike in GB, Allen was getting the ball to his play makers.  the problem is they wern't making any plays.

 

I'd put this game on the negative side of the ledger and just chalk it up to being part of the learning experience.  Not much help from his teammates today, but he was clearly off. 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Oh, there’s Doug Baldwin making a great catch that goes down in the books as a completion, 50 yards and a TD for Russell Wilson.   

 

Lets put that play into the 2018 Josh Allen translator - Beep, Boop, Beep... Result: Incomplete Pass. 

 

With the default repsonse “the receiver dropped it BUT Allen should have made a better pass” AKA Allen needs to lodge it in between a couple of ribs and make it stick because our wr’s suck, but let’s blame the qb..... ?

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'd put this game on the negative side of the ledger and just chalk it up to being part of the learning experience.  Not much help from his teammates today, but he was clearly off. 

 

I would say his game was bi-polar today which is what you see a lot from rookie QB's.  On the one hand he had some poor throws and the INT's were bad throws & decisions.  But on the other hand he made some terrific throws and he showed decent pocket awareness & good escapability.

 

And while I may be beating a dead horse to death here I think the issues with his WR's & TE's go way beyond not helping him out today.  The impact on a game of leaving a couple of TD's on the field and fumbling at the Pats 5 yard line were huge.  Just imagine the confidence & momentum that were squandered here.  how is this game different if Foster snags that pass for an 82 yard TD?  Allen had an average game IMO yet with a little help from his WR's & TE's the Bills may have won this game and Allen might have busted through 300 yards and had 2 - 3 TD passes.  I know it's coulda/woulda/shoulda but I'm watching all these other NFL games where TE's & WR's routinely make the plays that the Bill's guys didn't. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I would say his game was bi-polar today which is what you see a lot from rookie QB's.  On the one hand he had some poor throws and the INT's were bad throws & decisions.  But on the other hand he made some terrific throws and he showed decent pocket awareness & good escapability.

 

And while I may be beating a dead horse to death here I think the issues with his WR's & TE's go way beyond not helping him out today.  The impact on a game of leaving a couple of TD's on the field and fumbling at the Pats 5 yard line were huge.  Just imagine the confidence & momentum that were squandered here.  how is this game different if Foster snags that pass for an 82 yard TD?  Allen had an average game IMO yet with a little help from his WR's & TE's the Bills may have won this game and Allen might have busted through 300 yards and had 2 - 3 TD passes.  I know it's coulda/woulda/shoulda but I'm watching all these other NFL games where TE's & WR's routinely make the plays that the Bill's guys didn't. 

 

This x 1000

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I would say his game was bi-polar today which is what you see a lot from rookie QB's.  On the one hand he had some poor throws and the INT's were bad throws & decisions.  But on the other hand he made some terrific throws and he showed decent pocket awareness & good escapability.

 

And while I may be beating a dead horse to death here I think the issues with his WR's & TE's go way beyond not helping him out today.  The impact on a game of leaving a couple of TD's on the field and fumbling at the Pats 5 yard line were huge.  Just imagine the confidence & momentum that were squandered here.  how is this game different if Foster snags that pass for an 82 yard TD?  Allen had an average game IMO yet with a little help from his WR's & TE's the Bills may have won this game and Allen might have busted through 300 yards and had 2 - 3 TD passes.  I know it's coulda/woulda/shoulda but I'm watching all these other NFL games where TE's & WR's routinely make the plays that the Bill's guys didn't. 

 

One thing he does that I do not like is passing up easier throws that are available to him on early downs where he instead holds the ball looking for a big play.  He has got to stop that in order to become a higher percentage QB who sustains drives. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

With the default repsonse “the receiver dropped it BUT Allen should have made a better pass” AKA Allen needs to lodge it in between a couple of ribs and make it stick because our wr’s suck, but let’s blame the qb..... ?

 

Just saw KB drop a goal line pass from Boy Wonder Mahomes that hit him in the hands and the left side of his numbers.

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

One thing he does that I do not like is passing up easier throws that are available to him on early downs where he instead holds the ball looking for a big play.  He has got to stop that in order to become a higher percentage QB who sustains drives. 

 

True, Dat.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

One thing he does that I do not like is passing up easier throws that are available to him on early downs where he instead holds the ball looking for a big play.  He has got to stop that in order to become a higher percentage QB who sustains drives. 

Makes you wonder about the coaching.  

[billspro]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

One thing he does that I do not like is passing up easier throws that are available to him on early downs where he instead holds the ball looking for a big play.  He has got to stop that in order to become a higher percentage QB who sustains drives. 

 

That is definitely something he needs to work on in the offseason. If the defence is giving you short passes and you don’t take them you will have a short career in this league. Probably the number 1 thing Allen needs to develop in order to become a franchise QB. You have to have patience and know when to take your shots in this league.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

One thing he does that I do not like is passing up easier throws that are available to him on early downs where he instead holds the ball looking for a big play.  He has got to stop that in order to become a higher percentage QB who sustains drives. 

I agree with you with one caveat - he doesn't have the check down players that can make that a profitable play over the course of a game.  But yea, Arian's was actually pretty funny talking about how Allen was being hard headed in passing up the dump offs and trying to force it downfield.  He kept comparing Allen's stubbornness with Andrew Luck's when he first entered the league.  

 

But I think this is a relatively easy fix.  Allen is a smart guy and the Bill's staff will walk him through EVERY pass play this season and show him how many times he could have dumped it off for 5 yards on 1st or 2nd down and had a much easier 3rd down conversions to make.  The other thing is we need to upgrade the TE & RB positions so that the dump offs can be big plays with the right guys getting the ball.  Oh what I wouldn't give for a Komarra or McCaffrey type RB! 

 

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just saw KB drop a goal line pass from Boy Wonder Mahomes that hit him in the hands and the left side of his numbers.

 

True, Dat.

 

Luckily for Mahomes, that TD catch by Robinson makes up for it.  Kelce also had a great catch on their previous TD drive to allow them to get 7, instead of settling for a FG. 

[Andy1]

Another crazy catch by a receiver for Seattle. Bills receivers don’t make that play.

[HappyDays]

24 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

That is definitely something he needs to work on in the offseason. If the defence is giving you short passes and you don’t take them you will have a short career in this league. Probably the number 1 thing Allen needs to develop in order to become a franchise QB. You have to have patience and know when to take your shots in this league.

 

I don't mind that he pushes the ball down the field. His completion percentage will suffer for it but he throws accurately enough that it opens up the whole field. On 3rd and long never once have I expected him to throw it short of the sticks. That's his style for better and worse. We need receivers that can track the ball, separate, and make normal catch adjustments. That will be much more important to our offense progressing than Allen learning to throw 3 yard passes. Having any kind of run game at all will open things up downfield too. Allen's skill set can win in this league but we're not even close to having the right personnel around him to make it work.

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't mind that he pushes the ball down the field. His completion percentage will suffer for it but he throws accurately enough that it opens up the whole field. On 3rd and long never once have I expected him to throw it short of the sticks. That's his style for better and worse. We need receivers that can track the ball, separate, and make normal catch adjustments. That will be much more important to our offense progressing than Allen learning to throw 3 yard passes. Having any kind of run game at all will open things up downfield too. Allen's skill set can win in this league but we're not even close to having the right personnel around him to make it work.

if his receivers just came through on some of the dimes he dropped we could have won  The kid gives guys a shot to make big plays, Bills need to go out and get the guys to make those plays

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

if his receivers just came through on some of the dimes he dropped we could have won  The kid gives guys a shot to make big plays, Bills need to go out and get the guys to make those plays

 

Right it's just not what we're used to seeing. His arm and mobility allow him to make plays only a couple people in the league can make. Why are we going to teach him to run a short yardage checkdown offense? Let him play his game. Just get some receivers that have a clue and build around his skill set.

[CincyBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

if his receivers just came through on some of the dimes he dropped we could have won  The kid gives guys a shot to make big plays, Bills need to go out and get the guys to make those plays

That's how I saw today's game to.  In spite of Allen running hot & cold and having some poor throws he put the ball in or near the hands of his play makers and they didn't make plays.  Saying this is not letting Allen off the hook for his poor throws.  But damn his stats simply don't reflect all the good throws he makes that end up on the turf because his guys are not making plays. 

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

The Allen Bunker Brigade is on the scene acting as if he has no room for growth and improvement in a number of aspects. It's all on the receiving corps. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

The Allen Bunker Brigade is on the scene acting as if he has no room for growth and improvement in a number of aspects. It's all on the receiving corps. 

That's not fair 26CornerBlitz.  There have been plenty of posts from the Allen Bunker Brigade indicating that Allen needs to improve his game and that he made some bad throws today.  But when certain posters focus only on those bad throws to claim he's a bust while ignoring the poor WR & TE play what do you expect?

 

I think the Allen Bunker Brigade has a lot more balanced take on the rookie QB then the Hate Allen Army!  We fully acknowledge what he's doing poorly while pointing out the good stuff.  All I know is that when I watch the NFL's better QB's in action there are times when I think I wish Allen was that smooth or I wish Allen would make that kind of a decision or had that exquisite touch on his passes.  But I find that it's not all that often that I feel this way.  In contrast I'm constantly thinking "why can't our WR's & TE's get open like that" or "why can't our skill players make tough catches look routine" or "why can't our RB's take that dump off pass and turn a 5 yard gain into a 15 yard gain"?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

That's not fair 26CornerBlitz.  There have been plenty of posts from the Allen Bunker Brigade indicating that Allen needs to improve his game and that he made some bad throws today.  But when certain posters focus only on those bad throws to claim he's a bust while ignoring the poor WR & TE play what do you expect?

 

I think the Allen Bunker Brigade has a lot more balanced take on the rookie QB then the Hate Allen Army!  We fully acknowledge what he's doing poorly while pointing out the good stuff.  All I know is that when I watch the NFL's better QB's in action there are times when I think I wish Allen was that smooth or I wish Allen would make that kind of a decision or had that exquisite touch on his passes.  But I find that it's not all that often that I feel this way.  In contrast I'm constantly thinking "why can't our WR's & TE's get open like that" or "why can't our skill players make tough catches look routine" or "why can't our RB's take that dump off pass and turn a 5 yard gain into a 15 yard gain"?

 

Both sides are over the top. It is fair when people try to excuse away Allen's obvious need for improvement regarless of how talented as he is. The skill players aren't that good and we already know that.  Too many act as if they are the only problem and try to absolve Allen of blame when he clearly has room to grow and improve.  Then we have these kind of threads.