David Carr: Vikings Made a Mistake Paying Cousins $84M

[Tcali]

17 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said:

Rivers will be in the hall of fame.

I hope not--but you may be right.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:23 AM, Chicken Boo said:

 

Since when has that mattered?

 

Stafford, Ryan, Flacco, Cousins.  None are worth $30 mill per season.

 

...wonder how Carr feels about his brother CERTAINLY earning his $70.2 mil guaranteed?....

[IDBillzFan]

On 12/10/2018 at 8:16 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

Not paying off thus far. 

 

It will be interesting to see if the firing of DeFilippo isn't addition by subtraction.

 

Even as a fan who has essentially no rooting interest in Minnesota, I groaned every time they had a 3rd and short vs. Seattle and DeFilippo kept calling a passing play, none of which worked because Seattle just went after Cousins like a bat out of hell. 

 

It was some of the worst play calling I've seen in years, and that cost them the game far more than Cousins, in my little opinion.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, LABillzFan said:

 

It will be interesting to see if the firing of DeFilippo isn't addition by subtraction.

 

Even as a fan who has essentially no rooting interest in Minnesota, I groaned every time they had a 3rd and short vs. Seattle and DeFilippo kept calling a passing play, none of which worked because Seattle just went after Cousins like a bat out of hell. 

 

It was some of the worst play calling I've seen in years, and that cost them the game far more than Cousins, in my little opinion.

 

He and Zimmer were a bad mix.  DeFilippo didn't have any faith in the OL to get the necessary push in short yardage situations. Regardless he was far too predictable.  The OL still won't get better with the new OC. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Cousins is ok but he is a dork and doesn’t come up big in big games.  I get the Vikes had to go for it but this deal is going to be awful unless they win a SB.  Cousins always gave me a slightly better Tannehill vibe.

[BillsMafia13]

Yup, ill admit it now.  I was very wrong about Cousins, still cant believe McDermott never emailed me back though

 

 

Aaron Rodgers	Packers	$134,000,000	$33,500,000	$78,700,000	$19,675,000	58.7%	2024 UFA
Matt Ryan	Falcons	$150,000,000	$30,000,000	$94,500,000	$18,900,000	63.0%	2024 UFA
Kirk Cousins	Vikings	$84,000,000	$28,000,000	$84,000,000	$28,000,000	100.0%	2021 UFA
Jimmy Garoppolo	49ers	$137,500,000	$27,500,000	$48,700,000	$9,740,000	35.4%	2023 UFA
Matt Stafford	Lions	$135,000,000	$27,000,000	$60,500,000	$12,100,000	44.8%	2023 UFA
Derek Carr	Raiders	$125,025,000	$25,005,000	$40,000,000	$8,000,000	32.0%	2023 UFA

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Cousins is ok but he is a dork and doesn’t come up big in big games.  I get the Vikes had to go for it but this deal is going to be awful unless they win a SB.  Cousins always gave me a slightly better Tannehill vibe.

I could actually see that comparison now that you mention it

[GoBills808]

I am a Cousins fan but he's not having a great year. That said, in an offense with Diggs and Thielen AND Dalvin Cook, not being able to move the ball effectively (even with Thielen getting essentially doubled)...that's two games in a row they've struggled. Seahawks and Pats are not great defenses by any stretch. 

[ctk232]

On 12/11/2018 at 8:23 AM, Chicken Boo said:

 

Since when has that mattered?

 

Stafford, Ryan, Flacco, Cousins.  None are worth $30 mill per season.

It's the emphasis the league has placed on the QB position. While good QBs have always had some advantage in contract negotiations by virtue of their position, in a passing/offense driven league, it's easier to overpay or overextend for guys who are, by all measure, good or average QBs in the NFL. While I'm not sure I'd include Cousins or Stafford in conversation with Ryan and Flacco, I was never convinced any of the four were worth the contracts they were given, but especially with Cousins. The overhype on the Cousins sweepstakes made me so happy we didn't land him as it seems Cousins is no better than an 8-8/.500 QB.  To me, he never did, and still hasn't turned the page in his development to establish himself as a top QB, but again, people seem to think otherwise so time will tell.

[billsfan89]

Cousins did what he was supposed to do with the Vikings but the Vikings regressed defensively and along the O-line. Cousins is a pocket passer with some mobility, he needs at the very least a decent O-line to protect him. The Vikings O-line in 2017 wasn't special but they were decent, they didn't do too much to improve it in 2018 other than add a 2nd round pick to it. Now the Vikings have the worst O-line in football and their defense went from top 2 to 11. 

 

The Vikings overpaid for Cousins because they were so desperate for a QB to go with a roster they thought boasted elite receivers (It does), a solid running back combo (It does), a decent O-line (turned out to be a disaster of an O-line), and a dominant defense (defense turned out to be good but far from great.) Without those other elite components the Vikings regress to where the Lions were last year. 

 

The Vikings in 2019 are going to have to make some hard choices with their cap. They probably are going to have to let defensive starters Sheldon Richardson and Anthony Barr go in free agency and they might have to let go of one of their bigger defensive contracts too. They do have a little fat to cut but mostly they would be lucky to only have to cut marginal talent and maybe retain Barr. The Vikings are going to have to have a big impact draft class in 2019 (Probably need 2 O-line starters) and pull some cap magic to retain Barr and maybe get lucky signing a low cost vet or two. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Cousins: I take ownership of Vikes' offensive woes

 

Kirk Cousins' struggles helped lead to his offensive coordinator getting canned.

 

The Minnesota Vikings quarterback acknowledged his role in the Vikings' struggles.

 

"Myself, I'd be the first one to say, if I had played at a higher level, we're probably not talking about the things we're talking about," Cousins said Wednesday, via the Pioneer Press. "So I take ownership as well."

 

Cousins noted playing at Chicago, New England and Seattle -- Minnesota's last three losses -- exacerbated the offense's problems.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Bing Bong]

On 12/12/2018 at 1:22 PM, billsfan89 said:

Cousins did what he was supposed to do with the Vikings but the Vikings regressed defensively and along the O-line. Cousins is a pocket passer with some mobility, he needs at the very least a decent O-line to protect him. The Vikings O-line in 2017 wasn't special but they were decent, they didn't do too much to improve it in 2018 other than add a 2nd round pick to it. Now the Vikings have the worst O-line in football and their defense went from top 2 to 11. 

yeah the whole team simply isn't as good. And they've had virtually no running game either. Dalvin's been out or banged up all year.. hasn't put up ANY numbers.

 

And he's not worth his contract no.. but it's silly to knock him by comparing his stats to Case Keenum's last year. Keenum had a damn good year, and maybe it was a flash in the pan. Expecting ANY quarterback to replicate that season every darn year is expecting Peyton Manning consistency. Hard to judge Cousins if he has to constantly meet another quarterbacks career best season success as Cousin's lowest bar he's allowed to go. 

[SinceThe70s]

Just came across this great line in the NY Post this morning:

 

"It kind of feels like fate was sleeping on the job when she didn’t steer Kirk Cousins to the Jets, you know?"

 

https://nypost.com/2018/12/15/what-van-wagenen-will-never-understand-about-trading-syndergaard/

[Beast]

He was never that good.

 

This league is hurting so bad at talent behind center that sometimes the myth far outweighs the legend and leads to 80 something million guaranteed.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Binghamton Beast said:

He was never that good.

 

This league is hurting so bad at talent behind center that sometimes the myth far outweighs the legend and leads to 80 something million guaranteed.

 

Too many people were guilty of boxscore scouting with regard to Cousins.

[BringBackOrton]

17 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Too many people were guilty of boxscore scouting with regard to Cousins.

I mean, Kirk is still a good QB compared to the league at large. Lots of peanut gallery dopes chirping about the signing without an alternative.  I guess they could have paid Case Keemun who has been awesome this year.

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

He was never that good.

 

This league is hurting so bad at talent behind center that sometimes the myth far outweighs the legend and leads to 80 something million guaranteed.

He was never that good.  Agreed.

 

regardinng the QB position, I don’t think it’s currently hurting so bad.  I count 15 QBs in the range of stud to good franchise starters in any era.  Not included are the 5 starting rookies, who could all be solid.  Not included cousins, trubisky, dak, mariota, Dalton, carr, Alex Smith, Winston.  That’s 8 guys that are solid starters.  Maybe not the best QBs, but going back in NFL history, they are on par if not better than the 18th-26th best QBs of their time.  

 

The % may change when brady, Rodgers, Brees, ben and rivers retire, but by then I expected 5 QBs to step up and into the top 15.  Time will tell obviously, but I just don’t think The QB position is lacking so much compared to league history.  There may be more pressure on NFL teams to get a star qb, but I think the qb talent in the league isn’t any worse than previous eras.  

[The Frankish Reich]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He was never that good.  Agreed.

 

regardinng the QB position, I don’t think it’s currently hurting so bad.  I count 15 QBs in the range of stud to good franchise starters in any era.  Not included are the 5 starting rookies, who could all be solid.  Not included cousins, trubisky, dak, mariota, Dalton, carr, Alex Smith, Winston.  That’s 8 guys that are solid starters.  Maybe not the best QBs, but going back in NFL history, they are on par if not better than the 18th-26th best QBs of their time.  

 

The % may change when brady, Rodgers, Brees, ben and rivers retire, but by then I expected 5 QBs to step up and into the top 15.  Time will tell obviously, but I just don’t think The QB position is lacking so much compared to league history.  There may be more pressure on NFL teams to get a star qb, but I think the qb talent in the league isn’t any worse than previous eras.  

The median NFL starting QB this year is at a 97.0 passer rating (Newton/Carr).  Cousins is a tick better (98.4). Career mediocrities like Ryan Fitzpatrick are over 100. This season can't be compared to previous seasons! It's been a whole new world for offenses, particularly in the passing game. Earlier in this thread I mentioned that the Broncos would be better off with Tyrod. It's easy to look at Keenum and say he's been adequate; he hasn't. He's at an 82.1 passer rating - only Bortles and Darnold/Rosen/Allen have been worse. 

EDIT: more on that (maybe I'm the only one who cares, but whatever) - this year 10 qualifying QBs have ratings of 100 or better. Last season? Five. Last season's median QB rating: 91. It's fair to assume that a guy like Tyrod (89.2 last year) would find himself in the mid-90s this year if he were playing. That's how bad Case Keenum has been (and I don't need to tell folks how bad the non-Mayfield rookies have been, even though I still think they've all shown talent and promise).

Edited December 16, 2018 by The Frankish Reich