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Southern Bills Fan

Bills are 2013 Houston Astros.

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You're never rebuilt until you have the QB.   this franchise has been rebuilding for 20+ years.   If Allen doesn't work out, they'll tear everything down and try again. 

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1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

What young good Bills players/prospects do the Bills have?

 

With the exception of White and maybe Edmunds.

 

I like Allen and I HOPE he will be great one day, but I remain skeptical.

 

White. Edmunds. Phillips. Johnson. Milano. Dawkins. Allen. 

 

Allen is still a great young prospect. Note the word prospect. It’s too early to say which way it will go. That’s kind of the point of the OP. 

 

The four our most important pieces to building a team are LT, Pass Rusher, CB, and QB. We have young prospects who have shown some promise in 3 out of 4. 

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9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Clay and McCoy as staples of the offense should be over. 

 

They're old. Clay is 29, McCoy is 30. 

 

Those two are slowing down and our offense should not be built around them. 

 

Both of them need to be replaced with better players. 

 

 

 

I didn't say build around them.   I was simply counting the NFL caliber talent on offense currently with the Bills.  Personnally, I hope that McCoy ends up back in Philly, and I bet that Clay finds a good landing spot as well.  Both deserve better than this crap that McDermott and Beane have put on the field.

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3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I didn't say build around them.   I was simply counting the NFL caliber talent on offense currently with the Bills.  Personnally, I hope that McCoy ends up back in Philly, and I bet that Clay finds a good landing spot as well.  Both deserve better than this crap that McDermott and Beane have put on the field.

No problem. 

 

Besides, they are hold overs from Whaley. 

 

Whaley gets the credit for them. 

 

This regime has done nothing to show they can find and sign top flight offensive talent. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

I believe that they have decided to follow the Astros model of rebuilding, which is a total tear down from top to bottom. They are getting the pieces in place while suffering big losses to build a consistent winner for the future. Consistently putting a band aid on the problems by handing out bad contracts to remain 8-8 or 7-9 isn’t going to build a winner. Building through the draft and when you’re ready to win, adding the needed veterans is the proper way to rebuild. The Astros had Altuve, Springer and drafted Correa and Bregman. When they were ready, they got Verlander. They lost over 100 games for several years in a row but set themselves up for long term success. I believe that’s the model they are following. We have excellent pieces on defense and hopefully our QB. 

As a fan of both teams, I agree. I used to go to games, and Altuve would hit a lead of single. Steal second, steal 3rd, and every single time get stranded. I was hopeful that it would work, but doubted. I think if The Bills had kept Tyrod Taylor, we'd probably have another shot this year at sneaking into the playoffs. But we're not getting any further than that. We're taking the short term loss for the long term gain. 

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1 hour ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

I believe that they have decided to follow the Astros model of rebuilding, which is a total tear down from top to bottom. They are getting the pieces in place while suffering big losses to build a consistent winner for the future. Consistently putting a band aid on the problems by handing out bad contracts to remain 8-8 or 7-9 isn’t going to build a winner. Building through the draft and when you’re ready to win, adding the needed veterans is the proper way to rebuild. The Astros had Altuve, Springer and drafted Correa and Bregman. When they were ready, they got Verlander. They lost over 100 games for several years in a row but set themselves up for long term success. I believe that’s the model they are following. We have excellent pieces on defense and hopefully our QB. 

 

I've thought this was the plan all along when they started trading Watkins/Dareus/Ragland and Darby last season. Those who say they don't believe this regime can draft the correct players I'd say Tre'Davious White looks pretty darn good, Milano, Dawkins as well and Allen/ Edmunds show promise so far. It's just hard watching another season of the same we've been watching for so many years but I'm excited for 2019 with all that cap space plus the draft picks. I like how we've drafted so far and we already have some decent free agents on the roster. The OL/WR and secondary will mostly look completely different next year which is a great thing imo.

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1 hour ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

I believe that they have decided to follow the Astros model of rebuilding, which is a total tear down from top to bottom. They are getting the pieces in place while suffering big losses to build a consistent winner for the future. Consistently putting a band aid on the problems by handing out bad contracts to remain 8-8 or 7-9 isn’t going to build a winner. Building through the draft and when you’re ready to win, adding the needed veterans is the proper way to rebuild. The Astros had Altuve, Springer and drafted Correa and Bregman. When they were ready, they got Verlander. They lost over 100 games for several years in a row but set themselves up for long term success. I believe that’s the model they are following. We have excellent pieces on defense and hopefully our QB. 

 

This office has shown zero ability to choose decent offensive talent, much less good offensive talent. They passed on a QB who is next level good for a guy who struggles to simply throw the ball.  

 

This is not so much the Astro's as the 78 Buccaneers 

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Somebody wake me up when the Bills have the  home grown talent-wise equivalent of Springer, Altuve, Correa, Kuechel & Bregman....and they then have a GM shrewd enough to acquire talent like Verlander, Cole & Morton.

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17 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Somebody wake me up when the Bills have the  home grown talent-wise equivalent of Springer, Altuve, Correa, Kuechel & Bregman....and they then have a GM shrewd enough to acquire talent like Verlander, Cole & Morton.

 

 

I read Connor McGregor just donated WS tickets to each of those dudes..

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Even the LAstros won 51 games that year (a .315 winning %).

With only 16 games (vs 162) each NFL game is like 10 baseball games (in terms of importance).

Going 5-11 is a .313 winning %

Not sure we'll even hit Astros 2013 level this year.

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5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I read Connor McGregor just donated WS tickets to each of those dudes..

I get it...because after winning the World Series last season they lost in the ALCS this year.....I see what you did there...clever

Edited by nucci
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2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

White. Edmunds. Phillips. Johnson. Milano. Dawkins. Allen. 

 

Allen is still a great young prospect. Note the word prospect. It’s too early to say which way it will go. That’s kind of the point of the OP. 

 

The four our most important pieces to building a team are LT, Pass Rusher, CB, and QB. We have young prospects who have shown some promise in 3 out of 4. 

I personally wouldn’t say Phillips, Johnson, Milano and Dawkins are “high end” talent.

 

They are mostly mid round picks. They are playing well for the most part I will give them that. But they aren’t high first round talent/potential like the Astros had, as that was the comparison in this thread.

Edited by billsfan11
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Even if the astros had to replace/rebuild the entire team that’s only 9-12 players. The bills are more than that away from contending right now including the most important position qb. How many years did it take Houston?

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11 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I personally wouldn’t say Phillips, Johnson, Milano and Dawkins are “high end” talent.

 

They are mostly mid round picks. They are playing well for the most part I will give them that. But they aren’t high first round talent/potential like the Astros had, as that was the comparison in this thread.

 

Round of selection means nothing, what they show on the field means everything. So far they have shown to be decent players with bright futures. They could become the core of this team going forward, they could not. 

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5 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Round of selection means nothing, what they show on the field means everything. So far they have shown to be decent players with bright futures. They could become the core of this team going forward, they could not. 

In this comparison it does mean something though.

 

The Astros had elite level young talent. They were Can’t miss players that were drafted top 3 in consecutive drafts.

 

A mid 3rd round pick that looks “descent “ does not compare to the elite young talent the astros had.

 

Most teams have 2nd and 3rd round picks that are descent players who could have promising futures.

 

 

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1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

In this comparison it does mean something though.

 

The Astros had elite level young talent. They were Can’t miss players that were drafted top 3 in consecutive drafts.

 

A mid 3rd round pick that looks “descent “ does not compare to the elite young talent the astros had.

 

Most teams have 2nd and 3rd round picks that are descent players who could have promising futures.

 

 

 

Not really. There is no such thing as cant miss players and draft status does not indicate success in rebuild. The OP is making that point that we are stockpiling young players who fit our mold and will then be the core of the team. All of the players that I mentioned seem to fit that billing so far to some level or another. 

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2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

White. Edmunds. Phillips. Johnson. Milano. Dawkins. Allen. 

 

Allen is still a great young prospect. Note the word prospect. It’s too early to say which way it will go. That’s kind of the point of the OP. 

 

The four our most important pieces to building a team are LT, Pass Rusher, CB, and QB. We have young prospects who have shown some promise in 3 out of 4. 

 

Come on. 

 

This is an example of Bills fans pointing out average things as extraordinary. 

 

White is genuinely an impact player. 

 

Past that, there is nothing of note on this Bills team. 

 

Allen was not impressive in college, not impressive in 5 starts, and is hurt right now. The shine is off that pick until further notice. 

 

Pointing out starters on a 2-5 team doesn't do a whole lot. Every team has some younger draft picks playing. 

 

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3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Not really. There is no such thing as cant miss players and draft status does not indicate success in rebuild. The OP is making that point that we are stockpiling young players who fit our mold and will then be the core of the team. All of the players that I mentioned seem to fit that billing so far to some level or another. 

If you think the Bills have the young talent of players such as Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman etc. I don’t know what to tell you. Not even in the same ball park as the Astros. Literally and figuratively

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Better comp, I think, would be Eagles, Rams and Bears. 

 

Also, as far as why would free agents want to come here? Money and culture. I think people are way underestimating the number of players who don't care about winning, because they stopped having fun playing football a long time ago.

 

Imagine if you had to do the same thing for 20 years, and the only real reason you are able to do it is you were randomly born gifted enough. Sure, hard work counts for something, but you can't develop nfl talent if you don't have the skill set, it's too competitive. It's not like college, you have to be born with it.

 

And it hurts, a lot, and it's not ever going to stop hurting even after you finish playing. And fans are total jerks in aggregate, and don't appreciate you or your worth as a human, or your future life.

 

Do you really think you would have a driving passion to do something that 12 year olds love more than anything for 20 years of your life? I wouldn't. I want to grow, learn, become a better person and improve myself, my whole self, not just a sliver that people don't appreciate outside of a select few teammates. I would want coaches that care about my full self, and teammates as well. Winning is at best secondary for a huge number of players, if not the vast majority.

 

I'd love to say I'd care the most about winning, but it has to get old, and they have families, and dreams outside of football.

 

So the roster situation and lack of winning, I don't think that keeps them away, it's about the money, and I'm cool with that. That said, these contacts aren't guaranteed, so it's going to take a lot of upfront money because losing teams cut players.  Also, you're probably targeting older free agents that aren't worried about a second big free agency contract, because losing can hurt your perceived worth.

Edited by HardyBoy

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2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

If you think the Bills have the young talent of players such as Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman etc. I don’t know what to tell you. Not even in the same ball park as the Astros. Literally and figuratively

 

I'm not saying that. (I also don't know who they are, as I don't follow much Baseball) I am saying that in 2013 they had a lot of unproven potential, and in 2018 we do as well. That's the point of the OP. Nobody thought the Seahawks would have a great football team with their mid to late round picks who were nobodies. 

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8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Come on. 

 

This is an example of Bills fans pointing out average things as extraordinary. 

 

White is genuinely an impact player. 

 

Past that, there is nothing of note on this Bills team. 

 

Allen was not impressive in college, not impressive in 5 starts, and is hurt right now. The shine is off that pick until further notice. 

 

Pointing out starters on a 2-5 team doesn't do a whole lot. Every team has some younger draft picks playing. 

 

 

Dude. They're prospects. They're young. All the guys I mentioned are in their first or second year. If you're really judging them and positive that they won't turn out to be a good nucleus then good for you, but that's stupid. 

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1 hour ago, nucci said:

I get it...because after winning the World Series last season they lost in the ALCS this year.....I see what you did there...clever

 

 

Maybe he'll toss a few dozen Super Bowl tickets at the Eagles in February too.

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1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

I'm not saying that. (I also don't know who they are, as I don't follow much Baseball) I am saying that in 2013 they had a lot of unproven potential, and in 2018 we do as well. That's the point of the OP. Nobody thought the Seahawks would have a great football team with their mid to late round picks who were nobodies. 

Haha fair enough. If you don’t follow baseball though, I would highly recommend you don’t agree with the OPs comparison with the Astros then because it really isn’t close lol.

 

But I see what you’re saying and I understand your point.

 

 

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1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Haha fair enough. If you don’t follow baseball though, I would highly recommend you don’t agree with the OPs comparison with the Astros then because it really isn’t close lol.

 

But I see what you’re saying and I understand your point.

 

 

 

But that's from the optic of 2018. If in 2022 we have a superbowl winning team stacked with all this young talent that turned into studs (not saying, or even dreaming that it could happen) then we'd be just like the example- or at least how the OP explained it. Now, I do admit that since I don't know the backstory of the Astro team, that it is possible his explanation was off, I don't know. I was only responding to his initial comparison. 

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