Accountability

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, row_33 said:

takes until the really cold weather for a bad Bills team to be down to 1/3 filled stadium by the start of the 4th quarter

 

those were the days....

I understand. This is me being accountable for the quality level I am willing to tolerate.

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I understand. This is me being accountable for the quality level I am willing to tolerate.

 

been around since 1973, too jaded to throw stuff by now

 

i thought it would be a hard loss yesterday (hoped for a back door cover) and that was beyond the pale in the first half, using the last 5 seconds to try and eke out a first down says it all

 

the worst team performance I've ever seen was the Redskins playing in Toronto, they weren't remotely staffed or ready to take the field for that fiasco

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

34 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Can Taron Johnson play the outside?  

I don’t know. He can’t be worse. Bashaud Breeland was the guy that I had in mind.

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Of all the things that bother me, this would have to be way way down my personal list.

 

I can never blame a boss for wanting to take a deep breath, look at the facts, and reflect a moment before throwing folks under a bus.  It's all too easy to have a knee-jerk public reaction, and all too hard to walk it back if it proves to be off-base.

 

Peterman was a disaster, but so were the WR and the OL, the D was letting the Ravens fly up and down the field, and ST screwed the pooch twice.

 

"Insulting the fan base" should not be on McDermott's radar right now, and refusing to throw his players publically under the bus without time to review/reflect did not lose him this fan's respect.

 

Again, I wasn’t looking for him to single out anyone. I might not have communicated that clearly. I just wanted something like “it starts with me” as someone else mentioned. I would have been fine with “we were thoroughly outplayed and need to get it fixed.”  When you are embarrassed like that don’t patronize us. It is like when he said after the 5 INT game “Nate did some things well.” Just be honest and move on.

 

I guess that I just lose trust and respect for someone that is willing to lie to us. I was not looking for him to throw anyone under the bus but I also wasn’t looking for him to withhold the truth. Say it was bad or embarrassing and we need to work to fix it.

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't mind that straight after the game yesterday. Having done those in my time as a soccer coach (normally with one local newspaper, one local radio man and the team's own web/media guy) quite often you try and avoid emotional reactions that you later come to regret so you play a straight bat. When he speaks to the press today however I expect him to say something more and be a bit more honest. If he says something such as "we are still working through that" which he does a lot then I think it absolutely looks like a head in the sand mentality and a refusal to front up. 

Fair

[smuvtalker]

52 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

No, not really. Belichick doesn't give two poops what the public thinks, he coaches and manages the way he sees fit and that's it. Doesn't care one iota what is written about him, what fans think of him or anyone else for that matter. Now, it comes with the resume of winning, but he didn't always have that same resume and he was the same person. Please see his resignation to the Jets on a napkin for exhibit A in the evidence bag. Point being....we all want reassurance during the time of anxiety and doubt, but that's not his job at this point. His job is to course correct this team and he can't do that effectively if he loses the locker room due to being vocal about his displeasure with any one particular player unless it's off the field issues. 

Respectfully speaking,  I don't think it's a very fair comparison, for the simple facts that BB is considered by many to be the greatest HC of all time, has more super bowl trophies than any other coach, and is a surefire lock 1st ballot HOFer.  But to be honest, as dry of a human being Bellicheck is, and as vague and unhelpful he is to the media, I would be extremely surprised if the Pats got blown out 47-3 and he didn't shoulder some blame.  McDermott isn't even in the same galaxy coachwise that Bellicheck is in, but watching his postgame yesterday,  one might assume he was.  I mean not even one hint of accountability from him really made me view him in a way I hadn't done prior to yesterday.   Again this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if he rubbed some of his own players the wrong way with that presser.   This is twice now that he has gone with a QB that was clearly not qualified to run this offense.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think it's too simplistic to lay 100% of yesterday's debacle at the feet of the players.  I think the coaching is the far bigger problem - especially the unit coaches.   

 

There's a Mark Gaughn article behind the TBN paywall that quotes Flacco and some Ravens players and supports just that point.  Says stuff like"

 

"The opening script was masterful. The personnel groupings and formations were constantly shifting.The play-action run fakes were creating gaps in the defense. The matchups were being exploited. All the things Buffalo Bills fans were hoping to see from their team’s offense were on display Sunday at M&T Bank Stadium.Unfortunately for the Bills, it was Ravens offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg who was masterfully pulling the strings, not new Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll."

 

and (about the throwback play to Brown that dug the Ravens out of 2-and-26)

 

" “That was schemed up,” Brown said. “We practiced it a lot, and we got our defense on it pretty good, so we just knew that it was coming. The offensive linemen did a great job and held their blocks.”

 

and

 

“The one thing you notice is that the style of their defense,” said Flacco, “those linebackers are just so free to attack the line of scrimmage, at least for two steps forward before they actually do get back in the pass coverage. So we really felt like we could get them sucked up and hit them in that intermediate, 10 to 15 yard range over the top of their head.”

 

It's pretty clear the Bills got outcoached on both sides of the ball, and that realization may have been one factor in the whole team looking as though it gave up by midway through the 2nd quarter.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

It’s insulting to say he has to look at the tape after his team lost 47-3. 

 

Disagree- he needs to watch it repeatedly. Every painful minute- like Chinese water torture 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

The coach works with players every day. He doesn’t know you or work with you. You have no idea what kind of a tongue lashing the team will get this morning. Throwing them under the bus from a microphone after being embarrassed like that in the pouring rain for three hours will serve zero purpose except to make YOU feel better....I guess.

So very true. The entire team knows they played absolutely terrible. You want a scathing soundbite just so "Joe fan" feels better.  Give me a break. He will evaluate players and make changes. If he doesn't he'll get fired. It's as simple as that.

Edited September 10, 2018 by LABILLBACKER

[Buddo]

Imho McDermott needs to come out today, and own yesterday's debacle. I understand people expecting that sort of accountability sooner, but I also understand the need to take a few deep breaths, before getting into it.

 

It starts with the coaches and a poor game plan(s) and continues through to the players for an appalling lack of execution of those plans. There were far too many breakdowns all over the place, in all three phases.

 

Fwiw, it's also my opinion, that it's actually not that difficult to criticize a performance in general terms, without throwing individuals under a bus.

 

e.g. We couldn't get any offense going at all. While the D did some good things, we had too many communication breakdowns to keep the Ravens at bay. Same thing for the kicking units, where we both had opportunities and missed them, but also gave opportunities, that were taken.

[smuvtalker]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@Kirby Jackson

 

How many changes do you potentially see for next week?

 

I think for sure you have to start Allen.

Vontae has lost a step but Gaines looked as bad as Chris Watson.

I also think we could get some OLine shuffling.  Maybe Bodine goes to center and Groy goes to one of the guard spots?  

Agree with you on all 3 of those.  I didn't think it was possible for Ducasse to regress from last season's play, but he worked his TAIL off yesterday........to prove me wrong.

Seriously he shouldn't be starting.  Hell I'm not even sure I want him as a backup, but do we have any other options right now?  I'm definitely not opposed to giving Teller his baptism by fire....how much worse could he be?

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, smuvtalker said:

Agree with you on all 3 of those.  I didn't think it was possible for Ducasse to regress from last season's play, but he worked his TAIL off yesterday........to prove me wrong.

Seriously he shouldn't be starting.  Hell I'm not even sure I want him as a backup, but do we have any other options right now?  I'm definitely not opposed to giving Teller his baptism by fire....how much worse could he be?

 

I've said "it can't be worse" before....and with the Bills...it can.

But I do agree with you.  You're getting nothing out of Ducasse.  If you don't get much out of Teller, at least we can hope that his potential kicks in. 

[Gray Beard]

If one unit plays poorly, then it’s not too hard to identify the problem.  The coach may not call out the bad unit publicly, but he knows what went wrong. 

 

When almost every unit plays poorly, the head coach should stand up and take the blame. 

 

In fact, I think sticking with the hurry up offense was dumb once the score got lopsided. Again, that’s on the coach. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

26 minutes ago, row_33 said:

been around since 1973, too jaded to throw stuff by now

 

i thought it would be a hard loss yesterday (hoped for a back door cover) and that was beyond the pale in the first half, using the last 5 seconds to try and eke out a first down says it all

 

the worst team performance I've ever seen was the Redskins playing in Toronto, they weren't remotely staffed or ready to take the field for that fiasco

I respect that. I'm a bit younger. I was too young to really grasp the Super Bowl years. Most of my legitimate fandom has been encompassed by the drought. Even so, this is the least optimistic I have ever felt coming into a season and that was compounded by the announcement of the starting QB - a player evaluation that I thought the staff got completely and totally wrong. Unfortunately, this came to light in week 1. Now it is time for the professionals to be professionals, own their mistakes, and make the correct moves to get past it. If they cannot, then I cannot support them.

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't know. What I saw was a complete team failure, not one player. The O-line was a total disaster. When either NP or Allen got the ball to a receiver, they dropped it. Even the TV guys pulled out the tele-strator showing how not one receiver got open on pass plays. Maybe McDermott should have been more angry with his players, but maybe he should be mad at himself and Beane?

 McD did say he would look at every position and look at himself to see who is doing their job. Are his coaches putting the players in position to succeed and are they doing their jobs. 

 

I honestly don't know what he was supposed to say to appease everyone. Clearly, he can't be happy with anyone's performance save Edmunds, Allen, Murphy and perhaps a few others. The game got out of hand early and it was obvious Peterman wasn't leading a comeback after that second interception.

 

It was a team loss and not many played well at all, penalties, players couldn't catch balls thrown right to them, couldn't block, couldn't tackle. The entire concept of the offensive game plan was ineffective and the defense couldn't stop or get to Flacco.

 

McD isn't the type of coach who is going to melt down/blow up like Denny Green, Herm Edwards or Jim Mora. The guy is probably thinking to himself WTF happened out there to my offense, defense, special teams. When it rains, it pours. 

 

Looking at how poorly the offensive supporting cast played with the receivers not getting open and when they do get the ball to them they drop it. The line actually pass blocked better then they run blocked but with the penalties, they kept shooting themselves in the foot. I don't know if I'd want to start Josh Allen start with that mess of misfits and see him get injured. I'd almost rather throw Peterman to the wolves again for a few weeks. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 McD did say he would look at every position and look at himself to see who is doing their job. Are his coaches putting the players in position to succeed and are they doing their jobs. 

 

I honestly don't know what he was supposed to say to appease everyone. Clearly, he can't be happy with anyone's performance save Edmunds, Allen, Murphy and perhaps a few others. The game got out of hand early and it was obvious Peterman wasn't leading a comeback after that second interception.

 

It was a team loss and not many played well at all, penalties, players couldn't catch balls thrown right to them, couldn't block, couldn't tackle. The entire concept of the offensive game plan was ineffective and the defense couldn't stop or get to Flacco.

 

McD isn't the type of coach who is going to melt down/blow up like Denny Green, Herm Edwards or Jim Mora. The guy is probably thinking to himself WTF happened out there to my offense, defense, special teams. When it rains, it pours. 

 

Looking at how poorly the offensive supporting cast played with the receivers not getting open and when they do get the ball to them they drop it. The line actually pass blocked better then they run blocked but with the penalties, they kept shooting themselves in the foot. I don't know if I'd want to start Josh Allen start with that mess of misfits and see him get injured. I'd almost rather throw Peterman to the wolves again for a few weeks. 

 

If Allen plays Sunday we'll be having this same conversation, except we'll be calling Allen the bust. In the end, the QB gets all the blame.

Edited September 10, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Nihilarian]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a Mark Gaughn article behind the TBN paywall that quotes Flacco and some Ravens players and supports just that point.  Says stuff like"

 

"The opening script was masterful. The personnel groupings and formations were constantly shifting.The play-action run fakes were creating gaps in the defense. The matchups were being exploited. All the things Buffalo Bills fans were hoping to see from their team’s offense were on display Sunday at M&T Bank Stadium.Unfortunately for the Bills, it was Ravens offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg who was masterfully pulling the strings, not new Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll."

 

and (about the throwback play to Brown that dug the Ravens out of 2-and-26)

 

" “That was schemed up,” Brown said. “We practiced it a lot, and we got our defense on it pretty good, so we just knew that it was coming. The offensive linemen did a great job and held their blocks.”

 

and

 

“The one thing you notice is that the style of their defense,” said Flacco, “those linebackers are just so free to attack the line of scrimmage, at least for two steps forward before they actually do get back in the pass coverage. So we really felt like we could get them sucked up and hit them in that intermediate, 10 to 15 yard range over the top of their head.”

 

It's pretty clear the Bills got outcoached on both sides of the ball, and that realization may have been one factor in the whole team looking as though it gave up by midway through the 2nd quarter.

3

This is exactly it and now McD is probably wondering if he can trust his coaches to do their jobs.

 

Frazier and Daboll stunk it up big time. Have they been taking lessons from Rex Ryan? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I respect that. I'm a bit younger. I was too young to really grasp the Super Bowl years. Most of my legitimate fandom has been encompassed by the drought. Even so, this is the least optimistic I have ever felt coming into a season and that was compounded by the announcement of the starting QB - a player evaluation that I thought the staff got completely and totally wrong. Unfortunately, this came to light in week 1. Now it is time for the professionals to be professionals, own their mistakes, and make the correct moves to get past it. If they cannot, then I cannot support them.

 

[Hapless presses mute button while cussing]

I mean, doesn't it suck that here we are as fans, the day after the season begins, debating whether and which season had us least optimistic?

I get it.  I'm there.

But it sucks wet dishrag donkeybutts that it's so.

 

I was expecting a loss.  I was expecting a lot of losses this season.  But I was expecting competent losses, losses where we played well in streaks and just got outplayed a handful of times or had breaks not go our way.  The fumble we didn't recover, the single INT in the red zone, that kind of thing.

 

I was even cautiously optimistic about Peterman.  I looked at last preseason and this, and said OK, he worked hard, he's improved, maybe he can show regular-season competence with good scheming from Daboll.  I gave the benefit of the doubt to them both.

 

The most benefit of the doubt I ever gave was to Rex Ryan coming into 2015.  I didn't like the hire, but I was like OK, benefit of the doubt.  Then we got to the 2nd game of the season debacle against the Patriots, where the game was not nearly so close as the 40-32 score would indicate.  We looked sloppy, outcoached, and unprepared.  That was when I changed my screen name from "Hopeful" to "Hapless".

 

I'm just unsure what moves the coaches and players can make to get past it.  The Ravens laid down a blueprint for the league "how to macerate the Bills". The Ravens may or may not be as good as they looked yesterday, the Bills may or may not be as bad as they looked yesterday, but Everyone be watching until the Bills prove they got answers.

 

 

[transient]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh this is fun!!

 

I think that you are on:

- Allen starts

- Bodine to C, Groy to LG, Vlad to the unemployment line

- I predict that NEITHER Davis nor Gaines starts at CB. My bold prediction is that a CB not currently on the roster is playing that spot. 

 

I would also fire Castillo but it won’t happen. His unit is a mess.

 

Actually, the unemployment office assured me they have enough turnstiles already, but if he’s still interested in keeping with a “line” position, after reviewing his body of work, they suggested maybe he consider a career as a dotted line, invisible line, or imaginary line... all technically lines but with the same ease of penetrability that Vlad possesses in spades. 

[BigBuff423]

8 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

Respectfully speaking,  I don't think it's a very fair comparison, for the simple facts that BB is considered by many to be the greatest HC of all time, has more super bowl trophies than any other coach, and is a surefire lock 1st ballot HOFer.  But to be honest, as dry of a human being Bellicheck is, and as vague and unhelpful he is to the media, I would be extremely surprised if the Pats got blown out 47-3 and he didn't shoulder some blame.  McDermott isn't even in the same galaxy coachwise that Bellicheck is in, but watching his postgame yesterday,  one might assume he was.  I mean not even one hint of accountability from him really made me view him in a way I hadn't done prior to yesterday.   Again this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if he rubbed some of his own players the wrong way with that presser.   This is twice now that he has gone with a QB that was clearly not qualified to run this offense.  

 

Again, it wasn't comparing resumes it was more a matter of even one of the best of all time had his first 5-11 season. Additionally, do you remember the post-game presser after the 41-14 drubbing the Pats took against the Chiefs? The simple line, "We're on to Cincinnatti" was used over and over....he did say the coaching and playing were both bad, but that's about it. "We're on to Cincinnatti"....again, the point is that people want a sacrificial lamb on the alter after a game like that but refuse to acknowledge that's just to make themselves feel better, it's not because it truly accomplishes anything for the team. 

 

The larger point is that by McD remaining silent or stoic when the easy choice is to say what he's truly feeling is exactly what the players need. They don't need to be hung out to dry with the media, they know they played terribly. What they need is for a HC and staff to take the heat and then come together in the locker room on Tuesday and say, "F this, we're not playing like that anymore!".....and for the coaches to speak directly to them, not the media. 

 

As for Peterman, I'm not a fan and I think the change to Allen is a no-brainer. But, McD said Allen would have to earn it and that Peterman did earn it by showing well in Pre-Season. It's obvious for all of Peterman's hard work, he didn't progress - so now, it's Allen time. McD was true to his word, Peterman played himself out of a job - let the Allen era begin. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by BigBuff423

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m sure you people have tons of experience running winning corporations and professional sports teams. ?

 

I know these threads always make me laugh, like one poster said what good does a public meltdown do for this team? They know they were dumpster fire, the score was 47-3, do you really think they were sipping champagne and playing pool in the back room?

[row_33]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I know these threads always make me laugh, like one poster said what good does a public meltdown do for this team? They know they were dumpster fire, the score was 47-3, do you really think they were sipping champagne and playing pool in the back room?

 

who got game balls for the Bills yesterday?