Please name Josh Allen the starter

[PlayoffsPlease]

There remains no comparison in the level of QB talent. Allen is superior to Peterman in every facet of the game.  People who support starting Peterson and the people who support starting Allen all agree on one thing : the Oline sucks. 
 

But it is very weird to start a lesser talented QB, because your oline sucks.   Starting Peterman just delays Allen's development. 

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

There remains no comparison in the level of QB talent. Allen is superior to Peterman in every facet of the game.  People who support starting Peterson and the people who support starting Allen all agree on one thing : the Oline sucks. 
 

But it is very weird to start a lesser talented QB, because your oline sucks.   Starting Peterman just delays Allen's development. 

 

Allen is more talented that pretty much every QB in the NFL. He's bigger, stronger, more mobile and has a bigger arm that essentially every QB in the league.

 

Reality is there's a lot more that goes into playing QB successfully in the NFL than just talent. You need to read a defense, throw on time, know to take what a defense gives you and find ways to keep the chains moving by avoiding mistakes. 

 

Allen still has a ton to learn before he's ready to contribute at this level. Talent alone isn't enough in the NFL when talking about QBs. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen is more talented that pretty much every QB in the NFL. He's bigger, stronger, more mobile and has a bigger arm that essentially every QB in the league.

 

Reality is there's a lot more that goes into playing QB successfully in the NFL than just talent. You need to read a defense, throw on time, know to take what a defense gives you and find ways to keep the chains moving by avoiding mistakes. 

 

Allen still has a ton to learn before he's ready to contribute at this level. Talent alone isn't enough in the NFL when talking about QBs. 

Allen is better than Peterman on all of the bolded parts in your post as well.  Peterman, if he is the starter, will be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL by every objective observer.  There is no purpose to starting him whatsoever. 

[jrober38]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

Allen is better than Peterman on all of the bolded parts in your post as well.  Peterman, if he is the starter, will be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL by every objective observer.  There is no purpose to starting him whatsoever. 

 

That's just not true.

 

It doesn't matter which QB the Bills start - they'll be considered the worst starter in the league. 

 

Allen showed today he's not ready to start against he Ravens in 14 days. 

[GoodHands15]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen showed today he's not ready to start against he Ravens in 14 days. 

 

Allen showed today that Daboll is going to have to have him throwing a bunch of 5-7 yard routes and bubbles week 1....and he can go ahead and keep the out routes too since is not Nate.

Edited August 27, 2018 by GoodHands15

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

Allen showed today that Daboll is going to have to have him throwing a bunch of 5-7 yard routes and bubbles week 1....and he can go ahead and keep the out routes too since is not Nate.

 

Allen showed today he doesn't get the ball out quickly.

 

I don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to forget that he was a major project coming out of Wyoming. 

[Roundybout]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Allen showed today he doesn't get the ball out quickly.

 

I don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to forget that he was a major project coming out of Wyoming. 

 

But who is he throwing to? Was there a checkdown option? A running back in the flat? We need to see the tape to see if he really was hesitating or if there legitimately was no one to throw to. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, MarkAF43 said:

 

Yeah it was 100% on him. No dropped passes, no offensive lineman acting like turnstiles. All on the kid right? 

Yeah because that's exactly what I said. Way to try to put words in my mouth. Would you like to write my reply for me? 

 

No because this line sucks. No because he needs time. No because we need better receivers. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen showed today he doesn't get the ball out quickly.

 

I don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to forget that he was a major project coming out of Wyoming. 

This is wrong.  What was shown is that the line didn't play well enough to let the plays called by the OC to develop properly.   We also learned that Allen doesn't commit turnovers in those situations. 

 

[GoodHands15]

38 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen showed today he doesn't get the ball out quickly.

 

I don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to forget that he was a major project coming out of Wyoming. 

 

 

Nate was a pretty big project coming out of Los Angles.

 

Im not saying that Nate hasn’t earned the right to start by every statisticians calculations.

 

But we all watched the kid make a fair amount of quick timely throws running the same 2nd offense late week. Which, really does seem to be designed for the 1-3 step grip and rip. He did that very very well last week if I do recall.

 

I still believe, especially since they’re with the guy on a day to day basis, the entire Bills lockeroom, knows that Josh possesses too much talent and is “ready enough” to even sacrifice a single game to NP’s quick noodle.

 

IMO of course

Edited August 27, 2018 by GoodHands15

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

But who is he throwing to? Was there a checkdown option? A running back in the flat? We need to see the tape to see if he really was hesitating or if there legitimately was no one to throw to. 

 

This is the NFL. The defenders are bigger, stronger and faster than anything he faced in college. There's more pressure up front and the throwing windows are much smaller than the ones he saw at Wyoming. The game tape is going to be awful and it's going to be the same supporting cast all season. 

 

All today showed was that he's not ready for the Ravens in 2 weeks. Put this guy on the bench for as long as possible. He's talented, but it doesn't amount for enough yet. 

[GoodHands15]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

This is wrong.  What was shown is that the line didn't play well enough to let the plays called by the OC to develop properly.   We also learned that Allen doesn't commit turnovers in those situations. 

 

 

THIS

[Lfod]

22 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Allen is better than Peterman on all of the bolded parts in your post as well.  Peterman, if he is the starter, will be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL by every objective observer.  There is no purpose to starting him whatsoever. 

Then why didn't Josh go 9/10 for a TD?  If he's better then Peterman it should have shown in preseason. Josh has a better arm. Not the better preseason. Josh isn't better than Nate Peterman in preseason change my mind. 

 

I kept my mouth shut while everyone over hyped themselves.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Lfod

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

This is wrong.  What was shown is that the line didn't play well enough to let the plays called by the OC to develop properly.   We also learned that Allen doesn't commit turnovers in those situations. 

 

 

The underthrown ball to Clay should have been a pick. So this isn't exactly right. I thought Allen and Peterman both threw 1 interceptable ball. But Peterman had a lot more good throws. One thing I'd like to see from Allen is sometimes he just needs to go down. He can't always back away from pressure and escape it. A single edge rusher, sure he can sidestep him and make a throw. If the interior collapses he needs to just go down. That's something Peterman had to learn too and I think he has.

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This is the NFL. The defenders are bigger, stronger and faster than anything he faced in college. There's more pressure up front and the throwing windows are much smaller than the ones he saw at Wyoming. The game tape is going to be awful and it's going to be the same supporting cast all season. 

 

All today showed was that he's not ready for the Ravens in 2 weeks. Put this guy on the bench for as long as possible. He's talented, but it doesn't amount for enough yet. 

 

College or not, he can't throw to non-existent receivers. 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

College or not, he can't throw to non-existent receivers. 

 

So what's the solution? Play him and listening to people make excuses for how bad his supporting cast is all season?

 

That'll grow tiring pretty quickly. 

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

So what's the solution? Play him and listening to people make excuses for how bad his supporting cast is all season?

 

That'll grow tiring pretty quickly. 

 

I'd prefer to get the man some better help. That goes for Pete too if he ends up starting. 

[Trogdor]

19 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

 

Nate was a pretty big project coming out of San Diego.

 

Im not saying that Nate hasn’t earned the right to start by every statisticians calculations.

 

But we all watched the kid make a fair amount of quick timely throws running the same 2nd offense late week. Which, really does seem to be designed for the 1-3 step grip and rip. He did that very very well last week if I do recall.

 

I still believe, especially since they’re with the guy on a day to day basis, the entire Bills lockeroom, knows that Josh possesses too much talent and is “ready enough” to even sacrifice a single game to NP’s quick noodle.

 

IMO of course

Mistake or thinking of someone else? I think you're way off on the locker room. You don't think those guys have seen talent underperform before? Sometimes guys just need more time, and those first 6 games are not the time for it. Good chance he reverts back to bad habits if he faces pressure like that regularly.

[BarleyNY]

24 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

 

Nate was a pretty big project coming out of San Diego.

 

Im not saying that Nate hasn’t earned the right to start by every statisticians calculations.

 

But we all watched the kid make a fair amount of quick timely throws running the same 2nd offense late week. Which, really does seem to be designed for the 1-3 step grip and rip. He did that very very well last week if I do recall.

 

I still believe, especially since they’re with the guy on a day to day basis, the entire Bills lockeroom, knows that Josh possesses too much talent and is “ready enough” to even sacrifice a single game to NP’s quick noodle.

 

IMO of course

 

Not to nitpick but NP played college ball at Tennessee before transferring to Pitt. 

[Green Lightning]

47 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Allen is better than Peterman on all of the bolded parts in your post as well.  Peterman, if he is the starter, will be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL by every objective observer.  There is no purpose to starting him whatsoever. 

Nonsense. I get it you're a fanboy but that's not the case. With a terrible o-line you have to get the ball out fast. Peterman is superior at that and makes decisions faster at this point in his career. Allen is the long-term answer but Peterman is better for now.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

This is all very simple. Allen and Peterman both had a chance with the 1s 2s and 3s. Who did the best at each level. Peterman. Whatever the reason is, he gives us the best chance to win now....I say we give it to him.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[GoodHands15]

2 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said:

This is all very simple. Allen and Peterman both had a chance with the 1s 2s and 3s. Who did the best at each level. Peterman. Whatever the reason is, he gives us the best chance to win now....I say we give it to him.

 

Daboll ran the same offense for NP in each game. Yes, he made some good throws. But overall it’s little high % throws and his TDs haven’t really been red zone TD’s. Nate Peterman = Redzone FGs = statistical domination and 4 point leads at half.

 

JA = red zone rifle potential. I’ll take 1 TD over 2 field goals all day

[Bills4Ever4Life]

7 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

Daboll ran the same offense for NP in each game. Yes, he made some good throws. But overall it’s little high % throws and his TDs haven’t really been red zone TD’s. Nate Peterman = Redzone FGs = statistical domination and 4 point leads at half.

 

JA = red zone rifle potential. I’ll take 1 TD over 2 field goals all day

Peterman was 9 / 10, 118 yards 1td 1int not his fault behind the same oline and the same play calling. Peterman had touchdown scoring drives EVERY DRIVE, no matter what string he played with. Every time her was on the field her kept drives alive and made plays. Every time Allen was on the field he did the same thing. Till tonight. He played with the same players, in the same scheme and floundered. Peterman got rid of the ball on average less than 2 seconds. Allen has 5 seconds at one point and still didn't get it out. Maybe Cincinnati is just that good, but I don't think so.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[GoodHands15]

5 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said:

Peterman was 9 / 10, 118 yards 1td 1int not his fault behind the same oline and the same play calling. Peterman had touchdown scoring drives EVERY DRIVE, no matter what string he played with. Every time her was on the field her kept drives alive and made plays. Every time Allen was on the field he did the same thing. Till tonight. He played with the same players, in the same scheme and floundered. Peterman got rid of the ball on average less than 2 seconds. Allen has 5 seconds at one point and still didn't get it out. Maybe Cincinnati is just that good, but I don't think so.

 

Wasnt the same scheme. That’s the point. Don’t get me wrong. Nate has made throws this year I didn’t know he had in him. He also has made about 3-4+ throws that should’ve been pick 6s. In a span of about what 4q of football?

 

Daboll does not have Nate sitting on downfield developing routes. Hence the quick release.

 

One of Allen’s sacks tonight he had a 5 yard out wide open. But it seemed he wanted to wait an extra second to see if he could hit KB I believe on the seam/post. These are easy corrections to fix.

[Trogdor]

8 hours ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

Wasnt the same scheme. That’s the point. Don’t get me wrong. Nate has made throws this year I didn’t know he had in him. He also has made about 3-4+ throws that should’ve been pick 6s. In a span of about what 4q of football?

 

Daboll does not have Nate sitting on downfield developing routes. Hence the quick release.

 

One of Allen’s sacks tonight he had a 5 yard out wide open. But it seemed he wanted to wait an extra second to see if he could hit KB I believe on the seam/post. These are easy corrections to fix.

Not judging, but are you one of those Wyoming fans who are now Bills fans? 

[PlayoffsPlease]

9 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Nonsense. I get it you're a fanboy but that's not the case. With a terrible o-line you have to get the ball out fast. Peterman is superior at that and makes decisions faster at this point in his career. Allen is the long-term answer but Peterman is better for now.

It is not nonsense. Allen is better. Is the plan going to be to bench our best QB every time LeSean McCoy can't play, Benjamin drops passes and the o-line craps the bed.  Because that is not a good formula. 

[Bills4Ever4Life]

On 8/27/2018 at 7:53 AM, PlayoffsPlease said:

It is not nonsense. Allen is better. Is the plan going to be to bench our best QB every time LeSean McCoy can't play, Benjamin drops passes and the o-line craps the bed.  Because that is not a good formula. 

To be honest, I just don't see how you can think that Allen is better. I wholeheartedly believe that Allen's CEILING is better. I believe the kid has shown some signs of why we picked him where we did. In no way shape or form did he outplay Peterman this offseason. This coming from a guy who was NOT a Peterman fan and REALLY wanted Allen to light it up tonight and earn his starting position outright. He didn't and once again Peterman did well. Peterman played with the 3's....100+ yards 1TD.....he played with the 2's tonight and was 16 for 21 / 200 yards 1TD and ran another drive that led to a run TD. When he played with the 1's he was 9/10 118 yards 1TD / 1 "not his fault" INT. I'm sorry but Peterman outplayed Allen and trust me I REALLY wanted it the other way around. 

Edit after game 1:

Welp, I am eating crow now. Looks like Peterman is nothing but a pre-season star. Here is to hoping that Allen looks better than he did in pre-season as much as Peterman looks worse than he did.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[Chuck Wagon]

I've been all on the "start Allen' train, but after seeing this oline operate the last couple of weeks, go with Peterman.

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, Bills4Ever4Life said:

To be honest, I just don't see how you can think that Allen is better. I wholeheartedly believe that Allen's CEILING is better. I believe the kid has shown some signs of why we picked him where we did. In no way shape or form did he outplay Peterman this offseason. This coming from a guy who was NOT a Peterman fan and REALLY wanted Allen to light it up tonight and earn his starting position outright. He didn't and once again Peterman did well. Peterman played with the 3's....100+ yards 1TD.....he played with the 2's tonight and was 16 for 21 / 200 yards 1TD and ran another drive that led to a run TD. When he played with the 1's he was 9/10 118 yards 1TD / 1 "not his fault" INT. I'm sorry but Peterman outplayed Allen and trust me I REALLY wanted it the other way around. 

I honestly don't care about the statistical results of a couple of off-season games.  Any sighted person can see that Peterman will unquestionably be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL week 1, if he is the starter.  Allen might be as well.  The difference is by week  8 Peterman likely will still be the 32nd ranked starting NFL QB (barring injuries to others).  Allen MAY not be. 

People are acting like Peterman is some grizzled savvy veteran who has been in the league for years like a Chase Daniels, or Case Keenum.  He is not. He is a young player with one more NFL start that Allen. 

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I've been all on the "start Allen' train, but after seeing this oline operate the last couple of weeks, go with Peterman.

 

Same, sadly.  I was firmly in support of starting Allen, even behind a meh offensive line.  Let him learn, let him get his lumps.  I didn't buy into the whole "poor line play and pressure will ruin him" argument.  But honestly, this line went beyond meh, and will get him killed.  Allen is a rookie, and behind a decent or even meh line I still say start him.  But he can't learn under conditions like yesterday.  The game with starters is a lot faster, Allen himself admitted it.

 

Start Nate, let Allen learn a little on the sideline.  When the offensive line shows it can provide at least decent protection, put the kid in.  And yes, that sentence was hard to type.  I dislike the idea that our offensive line is actually going to stunt/delay Allen's development.  From what I've seen, he's ready to at least start and go through his growing pains.  But that line is abysmal.  Peterman has a little experience and can get the ball out quicker.  Behind this sad mockery of an o-line, that will be almost mandatory.

 

Allen cannot learn behind, and may not even survive behind a line that looked like this...

 

[Bills4Ever4Life]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I honestly don't care about the statistical results of a couple of off-season games. 

I'm fine with you wanting to ignore pre-season statistics. That's your prerogative. I choose NOT to ignore them. I am also concerned that you choose to both ignore good statistics put up by Peterman and poor statistics put up by Allen.

Quote

Any sighted person can see that Peterman will unquestionably be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL week 1, if he is the starter.  Allen might be as well.  The difference is by week  8 Peterman likely will still be the 32nd ranked starting NFL QB (barring injuries to others).  Allen MAY not be. 

Actually, last time I checked I was 20/20 vision AND I was AT two of the games. I have watched the ALL 22 film after the first two games over and over. My "sighted self" can see a QB that is getting the ball out fast / accurate and consistently. I see a QB who can run if he needs to and is playing smart.  I also see a young rookie QB that had a chance to show that he was better under the SAME o-line with the SAME WR's as the first QB but instead sat in the pocket an average of 4 seconds .....that is a LONG time. You can blame the play calling but the SAME person was playcalling for both so you are either saying that the offensive coordinator is screwing Allen over and giving Peterman all the "good" plays, or, more likely, they are given the same plays but Peterman is simply disecting the defense / field quicker. I'm not sure how ANY of this leads Peterman to be "THE WORST" QB in the NFL. I think your still jaded by his ONE game. 

 

Quote

People are acting like Peterman is some grizzled savvy veteran who has been in the league for years like a Chase Daniels, or Case Keenum.  He is not. He is a young player with one more NFL start that Allen. 

Where did I EVER say that Peterman was some sort of "grizzled savvy veteran." Keep It Simple Stupid....Peterman played better at all levels of competition. Every time he goes in there the momentum pushes forward. He earned a spot as a starter and i'd be PISSED if I was Peterman and put on the kind of showing that I did and didn't get the starting position. All that would show me is that the competition was a farce from the beginning and nothing he could have done would have got him the starting position. Seriously, what did he need to do to convince you? Throw 20 TD's for 1000 yards in 4 - 5 quarters of play? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I honestly don't care about the statistical results of a couple of off-season games.  Any sighted person can see that Peterman will unquestionably be considered the worst starting QB in the NFL week 1, if he is the starter.  Allen might be as well.  The difference is by week  8 Peterman likely will still be the 32nd ranked starting NFL QB (barring injuries to others).  Allen MAY not be. 

People are acting like Peterman is some grizzled savvy veteran who has been in the league for years like a Chase Daniels, or Case Keenum.  He is not. He is a young player with one more NFL start that Allen. 

 

Yep. I don’t think NP is going to work out so well against a starting defense. But at this point, I’m not sure it matters. If that was truly a dress rehearsal the Bills first unit got absolutely killed, 

 

Murphy was the lone bright spot.

 

vonte looked slow and clumsy, rest of secondary not much better.  

 

no pass rush

 

o line - that’s already been covered

 

qb- not good 

 

lot of work to do in the next few weeks. 

[Bills4Ever4Life]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

 

Same, sadly.  I was firmly in support of starting Allen, even behind a meh offensive line.  Let him learn, let him get his lumps.  I didn't buy into the whole "poor line play and pressure will ruin him" argument.  But honestly, this line went beyond meh, and will get him killed.  Allen is a rookie, and behind a decent or even meh line I still say start him.  But he can't learn under conditions like yesterday.  The game with starters is a lot faster, Allen himself admitted it.

 

Start Nate, let Allen learn a little on the sideline.  When the offensive line shows it can provide at least decent protection, put the kid in.  And yes, that sentence was hard to type.  I dislike the idea that our offensive line is actually going to stunt/delay Allen's development.  From what I've seen, he's ready to at least start and go through his growing pains.  But that line is abysmal.  Peterman has a little experience and can get the ball out quicker.  Behind this sad mockery of an o-line, that will be almost mandatory.

 

Allen cannot learn behind, and may not even survive behind a line that looked like this...

 

Also this. Did we not see Allen SLAMMED into the endzone and his head bounce off the ground? Dude should be in concussion protocol. Good on him for not going down but multiple times I saw his legs get bent and head get slammed and just overall he was taking a MASSIVE beating out there. We don't need another Trent Edwards on our hands.

[GoodHands15]

43 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Not judging, but are you one of those Wyoming fans who are now Bills fans? 

 

No not at all.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, Bills4Ever4Life said:

Also this. Did we not see Allen SLAMMED into the endzone and his head bounce off the ground? Dude should be in concussion protocol. Good on him for not going down but multiple times I saw his legs get bent and head get slammed and just overall he was taking a MASSIVE beating out there. We don't need another Trent Edwards on our hands.

 

Allen was checked after that and was cleared to return to the game.  He's fine.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

23 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Allen was checked after that and was cleared to return to the game.  He's fine.

I realize this. I'm not saying that he isn't fine. I'm saying that we can only expect more of that and next time he may NOT be fine. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Bills4Ever4Life said:

I realize this. I'm not saying that he isn't fine. I'm saying that we can only expect more of that and next time he may NOT be fine. 

 

Point well taken.  The OL in general and the interior in particular is an issue that has to be addressed regardless of who the QB is.

[jrober38]

11 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

I'd prefer to get the man some better help. That goes for Pete too if he ends up starting. 

 

That's obviously not going to happen at this point. 

[prissythecat]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

Same, sadly.  I was firmly in support of starting Allen, even behind a meh offensive line.  Let him learn, let him get his lumps.  I didn't buy into the whole "poor line play and pressure will ruin him" argument.  But honestly, this line went beyond meh, and will get him killed.  Allen is a rookie, and behind a decent or even meh line I still say start him.  But he can't learn under conditions like yesterday.  The game with starters is a lot faster, Allen himself admitted it.

 

Start Nate, let Allen learn a little on the sideline.  When the offensive line shows it can provide at least decent protection, put the kid in.  And yes, that sentence was hard to type.  I dislike the idea that our offensive line is actually going to stunt/delay Allen's development.  From what I've seen, he's ready to at least start and go through his growing pains.  But that line is abysmal.  Peterman has a little experience and can get the ball out quicker.  Behind this sad mockery of an o-line, that will be almost mandatory.

 

Allen cannot learn behind, and may not even survive behind a line that looked like this...

 

 

Turnstiles at least slow people down.   Ducasse couldnt even do that for some plays its seemed.

[Green Lightning]

3 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

It is not nonsense. Allen is better. Is the plan going to be to bench our best QB every time LeSean McCoy can't play, Benjamin drops passes and the o-line craps the bed.  Because that is not a good formula. 

Allen has a much higher ceiling and a better skill set, but this point in his development he's not a better QB based on production. Use your head and not your heart. Just because you want to be so doesn't make it so. Peterman has moved the ball consistently whether it's with the ones, twos or threes. He makes decisions faster and gets the ball out faster.  I go by production and not hopes. Allen just needs some more development, then it's his time.