3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 38 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Yeah it is. Separating children from their parents hits an emotional chord with a lot of people. I'd much rather see the parent and child together in a detention center than separating them for an extended period of time. I remember how afraid I was sending my son to preschool. There was outrage by immigration activists when Obama used detaining families as a deterrent leading to them suing the administration and winning. I agree that the media chose to ignore this story for the most part, but the outcry wouldn't have been intense because the children were at least with their parent(s). USA Today reported in 2015 that Obama considered the same policy Trump implemented (separating parents from children as a deterrent), but thought it would look bad so they decided to just go with the "catch and release" policy. There was that televised meeting in January where Trump said after Feinstein suggested a clean DACA deal, "I would like to do that. Go ahead. I think a lot of people would like to see that, but I think we have to do DACA first." That could be a soundbite the Dems will play leading to the midterms. Republicans are smart to make immigration a midterm issue because Democrats have lost their minds when it comes to border security. Trump has never said that he would just do DACA. Until stymied by the court DACA was the chip he held in order for him to get the wall funding, end chain migration and shitcan the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Yeah it is. Separating children from their parents hits an emotional chord with a lot of people. I'd much rather see the parent and child together in a detention center than separating them for an extended period of time. Without the pictures/video of the illegal immigrant children surrounded by chain linked fences there's NO story here. And it backfired on the MSM big time when similar pictures/video of illegal immigrant adults and children were held behind similar chain linked fences when Obama was President. And under Obama it was all supposed to be "kept quiet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 4 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: We have an issue that has no solution without an act of Congress. Because of the Flores decision children cannot be housed with their illegal alien parents in a detention facility for more than 20 days. Trump administration was separating families because of this law (not even touching on the perils of keeping some of them with fake parent(s).) The surge in illegal crossings and requests for amnesty has overloaded our system. The administration knew that they couldn't process the children in 20 days and relocate them to family or sponsors. Now Trump has signed an EO mandating that the children stay with their parents until moved off to other family or sponsors. After 20 days it's an illegal EO and Trump knows it. Regardless of the media's attempt to keep this a shitstorm, the onus is now on Congress to do something about this. At some point in time the media either has to shut up or else they have to blame Congress. I think the final upshot of this will be NO immagrint will be allowed to be kept more than 20 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, PearlHowardman said: Without the pictures/video of the illegal immigrant children surrounded by chain linked fences there's NO story here. And it backfired on the MSM big time when similar pictures/video of illegal immigrant adults and children were held behind similar chain linked fences when Obama was President. And under Obama it was all supposed to be "kept quiet". I don't think it backfired at all for the MSM. The vast majority of people IMO don't take the time to become truly informed on big news issues or the nation's truly big issues. It can be time consuming and not all that interesting. When print media and TV media and I'll throw in K-12 schools and universities beat the leftist drum day in and day out, it has a huge impact on public opinion as most hear and believe what is being reported. They are absolutely shaping public opinion and especially on this issue over the past couple weeks. The Democrat party would barely exist IMO if a majority of media outlets and schools reported the facts, the real math on the various "issues" in the news cycle. Instead we get coordinated biased reporting in huge doses right on cue with what the likes of Pelosi and Schumer are looking for. Been going on for decades although never more than today. Trump does a terrible job (as have most Presidents) of educating the public on issues and his policy positions. He could speak to Americans on TV and layout in detail his case for things literally in presentation style. The facts are on his side. Instead he tweets tidbits of information which don't at all move public opinion. His base eats it up but beyond that he scores no points or even worse scores negative points. For a business guy he absolutely sucks at presenting information. With a little work on his part and the part of his staff, he could much better wage the war of public opinion. For those that say he's outsmarting the left and playing the media for fools, I say he might be here and there but the majority of voters will never recognize it and won't be moved to his side because the truth is hard to find. Edited June 24, 2018 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 19 hours ago, B-Man said: .................... ......................... Well worth the effort, but the little girl should have had Pelosi's face photoshopped to the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I think the final upshot of this will be NO immagrint will be allowed to be kept more than 20 days. Then it would be catch & release all over again. We are not presently able to process the large amount of illegal aliens and legal asylum seekers in 20 days. I think that if it isn't already a strategy it will be one to flood the border (like the recent caravan) and overload our system in order to create a catch & release situation. Trump should ignore the court ruling re the 20 days and put the onus on Congress to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 CNN is parading some former illegal who’s now a congressman demanding access to immigration centers. Scum bag deep staters trying to hide the IG results with this charade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Then it would be catch & release all over again. We are not presently able to process the large amount of illegal aliens and legal asylum seekers in 20 days. I think that if it isn't already a strategy it will be one to flood the border (like the recent caravan) and overload our system in order to create a catch & release situation. Trump should ignore the court ruling re the 20 days and put the onus on Congress to fix the problem. Why was the US so overwhelmed by the flood of child migrants in spring and summer 2014? Because the system was built for 8,000 kids — not 50,000. According to Wendy Young of Kids in Need of Defense (KIND), an advocacy organization for unaccompanied immigrant children, the system Congress had in place as of 2014 "was designed for about 6,000 to 8,000 kids a year." https://www.vox.com/cards/child-migrant-crisis-unaccompanied-alien-children-rio-grande-valley-obama-immigration/why-is-the-us-so-overwhelmed-by-the-current-flood-of-child-migrants When the court invoked the 20 day order in 2014, the system can't handle that volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, ALF said: Why was the US so overwhelmed by the flood of child migrants in spring and summer 2014? Because the system was built for 8,000 kids — not 50,000. According to Wendy Young of Kids in Need of Defense (KIND), an advocacy organization for unaccompanied immigrant children, the system Congress had in place as of 2014 "was designed for about 6,000 to 8,000 kids a year." https://www.vox.com/cards/child-migrant-crisis-unaccompanied-alien-children-rio-grande-valley-obama-immigration/why-is-the-us-so-overwhelmed-by-the-current-flood-of-child-migrants When the court invoked the 20 day order in 2014, the system can't handle that volume. I would like to know what solution would be satisfactory in handling illegal immigration of unaccompanied children, in your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) I've got a good remedy to solve two problems. The Concord Naval Weapons Station in Concord,CA has been in use since1942. Most of it is now closed and there has been talk for years of developing it, but it has been said it could take up to 15 years since there may be some unexploded munitions on it. Recently there has been talk of housing up to 47K illegals there. Let them wander around . They'll find all the unexploded munitions. Problem solved.? Edited June 24, 2018 by Wacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) The problem is that there is a "process" of hearing cases for people who cross illegally and that process is very slow. Courts in nearly all facets are dreadfully slow. It's the culture of the legal industry. We should not arrest and charge these people. They should simply be immediately deported. Edited June 24, 2018 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 33 minutes ago, Wacka said: I've got a good remedy to solve two problems. The Concord Naval Weapons Station in Concord,CA has been in use since1942. Most of it is now closed and there has been talk for years of developing it, but it has been said it could take up to 15 years since there may be some unexploded munitions on it. Recently there has been talk of housing up to 47K illegals there. Let them wander around . They'll find all the unexploded munitions. Problem solved.? And streamed live on the Discovery Go App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 55 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: The problem is that there is a "process" of hearing cases for people who cross illegally and that process is very slow. Courts in nearly all facets are dreadfully slow. It's the culture of the legal industry. We should not arrest and charge these people. They should simply be immediately deported. Do you leave children alone on the Mexican side of the border with strange adults and possible traffickers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Do you leave children alone on the Mexican side of the border with strange adults and possible traffickers? Yes. Would it be legal to document the people they catch, quickly, so if there are repeat offenders they are able to cull anyone particularly suspicious that might be trafficker (caught with different children, or large amounts of people, holding lots of money, armed etc.), and only detain them? Edited June 25, 2018 by OJ Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: I would like to know what solution would be satisfactory in handling illegal immigration of unaccompanied children, in your opinion. I have no idea what the law is for unaccompanied minors who cross illegally. A wall with surveillance monitors to alert border patrol is the only real option. The country has to stop illegal entry to get a handle on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, OJ Tom said: Yes. Would it be legal to document the people they catch, quickly, so if there are repeat offenders they are able to cull anyone particularly suspicious that might be trafficker (caught with different children, or large amounts of people, holding lots of money, armed etc.), and only detain them? Uh, they already do that. How do you have repeat offenders if you just let everyone go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, OJ Tom said: Yes. Would it be legal to document the people they catch, quickly, so if there are repeat offenders they are able to cull anyone particularly suspicious that might be trafficker (caught with different children, or large amounts of people), and only detain them? With all due respect, I do not think that is possible. I do not think it moral, nor do I believe the US population will stand for it. How do you document people that quickly and precisely? Fingerprint database? Pictures? 1 minute ago, ALF said: I have no idea what the law is for unaccompanied minors who cross illegally. A wall with surveillance monitors to alert border patrol is the only real option. The country has to stop illegal entry to get a handle on this. Well, would you look at that? If only there was a President who ran on that very platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Koko78 said: Uh, they already do that. How do you have repeat offenders if you just let everyone go? You take photos and names, put them in a database, and if the same person is caught again, say with a different group of children, you detain them. If they are children not accompanied by an adult you return them immediately to Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: How do you document people that quickly and precisely? Fingerprint database? Pictures? DNA Also solves the problem of whether children are really traveling with their parents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: With all due respect, I do not think that is possible. I do not think it moral, nor do I believe the US population will stand for it. How do you document people that quickly and precisely? Fingerprint database? Pictures? Well, would you look at that? If only there was a President who ran on that very platform. So the US population won't stand for keep them, but also won't stand for returning them? And it's because of morals? It doesn't have to be "precise". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, OJ Tom said: So the US population won't stand for keep them, but also won't stand for returning them? And it's because of morals? It doesn't have to be "precise". I asked specifically about unaccompanied minors. What do you do with unaccompanied minors? The US population at this point will not, IMO, stand for dropping off them off by the busload in Mexico surrounded by possible traffickers without their families around. 4 minutes ago, /dev/null said: DNA Also solves the problem of whether children are really traveling with their parents I wonder at the cost in both money and time, of doing DNA PCR on every familial unit caught in the US illegally. I don't have an accurate estimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: I asked specifically about unaccompanied minors. What do you do with unaccompanied minors? The US population at this point will not, IMO, stand for dropping off them off by the busload in Mexico surrounded by possible traffickers without their families around. no, you didn't. 19 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Do you leave children alone on the Mexican side of the border with strange adults and possible traffickers? Unaccompanied minors would be left with Mexican officials. And I think the public would be reasonably accepting of them being returned. But of course there will be some complaints. Edited June 25, 2018 by OJ Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: I would like to know what solution would be satisfactory in handling illegal immigration of unaccompanied children, in your opinion. 20 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Do you leave children alone on the Mexican side of the border with strange adults and possible traffickers? Just now, OJ Tom said: no, you didn't. And I think the public would be reasonably accepting of them being returned. But of course there will be some complaints. Read more. Post less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Read more. Post less. !@#$ off. I answered the question you posted, and quoted it directly. Be less of an !@#$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, OJ Tom said: You take photos and names, put them in a database, and if the same person is caught again, say with a different group of children, you detain them. If they are children not accompanied by an adult you return them immediately to Mexico. So your proposal is to take their picture, assume they're giving you their actual name to put in a database, and letting them go with children that may or may not be theirs, on the promise that they won't ignore our laws, our borders, and our sovereignty a second time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Koko78 said: So your proposal is to take their picture, assume they're giving you their actual name to put in a database, and letting them go with children that may or may not be theirs, on the promise that they won't ignore our laws, our borders, and our sovereignty a second time? No. Take the photos of them and the kids with them. If they have some kind of documentation of their identity, you use that, If not just the photo and whatever name they have given. Send them all back. If the person is caught again, you search with facial recognition. If the person shows up, you look to see who the person was with before. If it was a different group of kids, you detain the person, and investigate. If it's the same kids, or the person doesn't come up. You return them to the border. Edited June 25, 2018 by OJ Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, OJ Tom said: !@#$ off. I answered the question you posted, and quoted it directly. Be less of an !@#$ So we'll chalk you down in the "drop children off by the busload surrounded by traffickers" camp. Gotcha. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Do you leave children alone on the Mexican side of the border with strange adults and possible traffickers? I know, this can be complicated. At some point you have to get some cooperation from the government of Mexico and Central American countries. That should include getting Mexico to stop allowing people to pass through their country on their way to the U.S. Right now they're laughing at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: So we'll chalk you down in the "drop children off by the busload surrounded by traffickers" camp. Gotcha. Read more, and don't post at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Maybe a moat filled with these would be cheaper than a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Maybe a moat filled with these would be cheaper than a wall. Edited June 25, 2018 by Koko78 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Canadian jogger detained after accidentally crossing border in to US. Actually heard someone complain "How could this happen? They should do something to keep this from happening, like build a fence there or something..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, OJ Tom said: Read more, and don't post at all. The jokes aren't as funny when you repeat them after me. Who would've thought the guy who named himself after another poster on here had a creativity problem. 46 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: I know, this can be complicated. At some point you have to get some cooperation from the government of Mexico and Central American countries. That should include getting Mexico to stop allowing people to pass through their country on their way to the U.S. Right now they're laughing at us. Exactly. This is a problem that needs to be approached by several different avenues to be truly solved. We simply cannot bear to be the protectors of non-citizens who come here illegally. We cannot act in their best welfare, because they are not citizens of our country. This is what happens when Americans get it in their heads that the USA can save everyone. We cannot. These people who are citizens of a foreign country should look to their own governments. But the solution isn't bussing children into trafficking areas because "America First." That is not the country I am proud to be a part of. Furthermore, that's not a policy I will vote for. But how do you force another sovereign nation to act in the best interests of their own citizens? Do we invade and set up a new regime? Edited June 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: But how do you force another sovereign nation to act in the best interests of their own citizens? Do we invade and set up a new regime? Diplomatic engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, keepthefaith said: Diplomatic engagement. The Mexican government, for all intents and purposes, has seen fit to throw their hands up in regards to this problem. When do we decide the difference between "can't" and "won't" is negligible? What can we offer Mexico that will entice them to actually contribute to this solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: The Mexican government, for all intents and purposes, has seen fit to throw their hands up in regards to this problem. When do we decide the difference between "can't" and "won't" is negligible? What can we offer Mexico that will entice them to actually contribute to this solution? Mexico will elect a new President next week. Fresh start. We can certainly pressure Mexico economically if we want to. Discourage tourism, trade (which Trump is already doing) and make it tougher for people to send money back home. On the more cooperative level, Mexico has done a terrible job of developing their own economy. They are rich in natural resources and have a very large low cost labor force with the largest market (us) in their back yard. We could probably help them to develop their economy with a partnership of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Mexico will elect a new President next week. Fresh start. We can certainly pressure Mexico economically if we want to. Discourage tourism, trade (which Trump is already doing) and make it tougher for people to send money back home. On the more cooperative level, Mexico has done a terrible job of developing their own economy. They are rich in natural resources and have a very large low cost labor force with the largest market (us) in their back yard. We could probably help them to develop their economy with a partnership of sorts. Notice how few of the migrants being discussed are fro Mexico? But if Lopez Obradors wins, that trend will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, GG said: Notice how few of the migrants being discussed are fro Mexico? But if Lopez Obradors wins, that trend will change. Lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, GG said: Notice how few of the migrants being discussed are fro Mexico? But if Lopez Obradors wins, that trend will change. Actually, if Obradors wins, I think we'll see our Southern border militarized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: Actually, if Obradors wins, I think we'll see our Southern border militarized. For very good reason. I can’t believe Mexicans would risk falling back into economic despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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