Center controversy remember

[Lfod]

I don't remember seeing the offense on the field longer then 3 plays at a time last season. I'm just joking (probably). Interesting conversation guys I just don't know as much about it. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Lfod

[CDogg20]

18 hours ago, Lafromboise said:

When wood broke his leg groy stepped in and didnt miss a beat. Hell he played great football. Maybe an upgrade

Its a completely different blocking scheme now too. We'll see how he does, I hope he does well. I like the kid

[billsfan89]

12 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

They are paying Bodine 2:5 Mil... that’s not starting Center money to me and much less than what Wood was getting,  but Groy is getting the same amount and one of them will get the job by default..

 

I am far from optimistic about Bodine personally and hope Groy gets the job.

 

 

 

 

 

Bodine makes for good competition and excellent depth, the money they paid him wasn't much and he is a 26-year-old center with 64 starts under his belt that's a pretty good player to have as competition for a spot and at worst a good depth player. 

 

I really liked the Newhouse and Bodine signings good depth overall. 

[NewEra]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting.

 

While not an all-pro, Boling was the center on the Bengals OL since being drafted in 2014.  In 2014 and 2015, the Bengals had a pretty good OL.  I didn't hear any Cleveland fans bitching about Boling and how awful he was.  And for some reason, Andy Dalton looks a lot better when his team is top-10 for sacks allowed instead of bottom 3rd.

 

In 2016 and 2017 the Bengals line took a step back.  In 2016, they lost their RT and replaced him with rookie Oqbuehi.  In 2017, they lost pro-bowl LT Andrew Whitworth for LA, rotation of 2016 RT Oqbuehi to LT, and lost of RG Kevin Zeitler to Cleveland, replacing him with 3rd year UDFA Trey Hopkins.

 

It's possible Bodine has fallen off.  It's also possible that it has to do with who he had next to him. 

 

So who we planning to put next to him.

 

We have Bodine, not Boling and browns fans likely wouldn’t B word about an OLmen that plays for the bengals

[simpleman]

On 5/25/2018 at 6:59 PM, BillsPride12 said:

Trust me Beane and McDermott are no where near finished putting together the offensive line...it might be rough this season but they will continue to bring in the right pieces and build up a strong o-line.  Trust The Process

?

[GunnerBill]

On 5/26/2018 at 2:24 AM, RocCityRoller said:

 

Fair, but I will counter by asking you this:

If he was that bad why would they start him for every single game from day one and not replace him before four years?

 

Maybe the Bengals don't put a premium on resigning O-linemen?

Sounds ridiculous but they let a pro-bowl OT Whitworth and a very good OG Zietler go, both are fine O-linemen.

 

In fact the Bengals haven't seemed big on resigning a lot of thier own offensive players:

AJ McArron, Mo Sanu, Marvin Jones, Jeremy Hill etc.

 

 

I think Bodine was serviceable when hidden among a good line. He struggled massively once he wasn't.

[SoTier]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:28 PM, 3rdand12 said:

depends on the Offense they run.

Beane finds them McD and Daboll etc pick them.
but i share your worries.

 

Bodine is likely fine actually. and heck Groy is lining up as his back up. So no dropoff....

 

Why is Bodine "likely fine actually"?  Because the Bills just have this "knack" for turning trashy OLers who aren't really good enough to be starters on other teams into All Pros?  Sorry to burst your daydream but the Bills have no such "knack".  Other teams' crappy OLers come to the Bills and play just as poorly here as they did before.  Too many Bills fans just ignore that and blame the QB or the RBs or whomever.

 

Teams that have some top notch OLers can often mask the poor play of the other guys, which the Bills did when they had Wood, Incognito, and Glenn in 2016.   All three are gone.  How much did Dawkins benefit from playing beside Incognito in 2017?  Well, we'll find out now, and what's scary is that Dawkins, a sophomore, is probably the Bills best OLer on paper.

 

I'm not saying there's much the Bills could have done between the end of 2017 and now, to have changed the situation, but pretending that "everything will be fine" with the OL is simply ignoring reality.  Wood's injury and Incognito's problems weren't things that could be foreseen and remedied.  An argument could be made for them keeping Glenn but there are arguments the other way, too.  Even addressing the OL in the draft differently may not have been possible.  I just hope that what's transpired in FA and the draft in 2018 doesn't portend a return to the kind of lip service to creating a functional offense that we saw during the Jauron years.  Just drafting a QB in the top ten isn't enough.  All QBs need protection and weapons to be successful, and the Bills are woefully short on talent in those areas.

[stuvian]

I'm no OL scholar but it feels like we're going cheap on OL. Maybe that will be the last phase of Beane's putting his stamp on the roster. We'd be crazy to let Allen get killed behind a makeshift OL

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Beane has shown a bit of a propensity for head scratching money wastes.

 

Extending Eric Wood last summer...........for what reason?   They weren't crushed against the cap,  he was coming off another season ending injury at his advanced age.   Let it play out.     Adding incentives to Shady McCoy's contract..........he had already double dipped on his Philly deal when he got to Buffalo.   And then of course he got played by Incognito.   Not crushing by any means but for the lowest spending team in the NFL since he took over they have wasted millions with some TRULY unnecessary moves.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, NewEra said:

We have Bodine, not Boling and browns fans likely wouldn’t B word about an OLmen that plays for the bengals

 

Thanks for the correction! 

 

Points are the same: Bodine started for 4 years, including 2 years when the line was top-10 for sacks.  Two years ago, line play dropped (new rookie RT).  Last year, they let a lot of guys walk - their pro-bowl LT, a very good guard, and the line play looked awful.  So is it that Bodine has sucked all along or is it that Bodine looked better with good guys next to him, just as Wood looked better as a center when playing between 'Cog and Miller, and gawdawful between Pears and Urbik?

 

Which of course begs the question who are we planning to flank him with.

 

38 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I'm no OL scholar but it feels like we're going cheap on OL. Maybe that will be the last phase of Beane's putting his stamp on the roster. We'd be crazy to let Allen get killed behind a makeshift OL

 

I agree with you.  At this point, it looks as though we are under-investing in OL.  I don't think they felt they could fix the roster in 1 year though.  Let's see what they do to improve next season.

 

I am concerned because I think AJM is a guy who has shown he can play in the NFL with a good OL and good WR - but what we got?

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Beane has shown a bit of a propensity for head scratching money wastes.

 

Extending Eric Wood last summer...........for what reason?   They weren't crushed against the cap,  he was coming off another season ending injury at his advanced age.   Let it play out.     Adding incentives to Shady McCoy's contract..........he had already double dipped on his Philly deal when he got to Buffalo.   And then of course he got played by Incognito.   Not crushing by any means but for the lowest spending team in the NFL since he took over they have wasted millions with some TRULY unnecessary moves.   

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  They would have had to extend Wood during the season anyway and his retirement came out of the blue.  As for Incog, also no way to know he'd pull his stunt after accepting the pay cut (and his cap hit counts for only $1.15M, which wouldn't get you anything on the market).  And Shady's been worth every penny and they still have money under the cap this year and a ton next year.

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thanks for the correction! 

 

Points are the same: Bodine started for 4 years, including 2 years when the line was top-10 for sacks.  Two years ago, line play dropped (new rookie RT).  Last year, they let a lot of guys walk - their pro-bowl LT, a very good guard, and the line play looked awful.  So is it that Bodine has sucked all along or is it that Bodine looked better with good guys next to him, just as Wood looked better as a center when playing between 'Cog and Miller, and gawdawful between Pears and Urbik?

 

Which of course begs the question who are we planning to flank him with.

 

 

I agree with you.  At this point, it looks as though we are under-investing in OL.  I don't think they felt they could fix the roster in 1 year though.  Let's see what they do to improve next season.

 

I am concerned because I think AJM is a guy who has shown he can play in the NFL with a good OL and good WR - but what we got?

One point isn’t the same

 

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bodine-Gone?highlight=Bodine

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  They would have had to extend Wood during the season anyway and his retirement came out of the blue.  As for Incog, also no way to know he'd pull his stunt after accepting the pay cut (and his cap hit counts for only $1.15M, which wouldn't get you anything on the market).  And Shady's been worth every penny and they still have money under the cap this year and a ton next year.

 

Actually I think the payments to Wood and McCoy were basically hush money.     As in you guys are the vocal leaders in the locker room and you can see that we have made and want to continue to make the team less talented by ridding themselves of young players who were perhaps poorly influenced in recent seasons........all in the name of getting in people who won't question the HC........and we need you to be some of those unquestioning guys.     So here is money you wouldn't otherwise get from any other organization in the NFL.    The Bills have kinda' done things like this in the past when they were desperate.    Like the Kelsay extensions.?   In this case getting McCoy to stop his grumbling after his displeasure with the Watkins trade and Wood shitting sunshine and rainbows for McD probably helped them execute Jauron Ball at a better level early in the season to get off to that 5-2 start.    It was kinda' ridiculous though.   Teams just don't buy off already well paid leadership like that very often.  Hopefully it will yield long term results and not just one Jauron Ball back-into-playoff season.    Roster is pretty depleted.   Can use every dollar over the next few years.   

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Actually I think the payments to Wood and McCoy were basically hush money.     As in you guys are the vocal leaders in the locker room and you can see that we have made and want to continue to make the team less talented by ridding themselves of young players who were perhaps poorly influenced in recent seasons........all in the name of getting in people who won't question the HC........and we need you to be some of those unquestioning guys.     So here is money you wouldn't otherwise get from any other organization in the NFL.    The Bills have kinda' done things like this in the past when they were desperate.    Like the Kelsay extensions.?   In this case getting McCoy to stop his grumbling after his displeasure with the Watkins trade and Wood shitting sunshine and rainbows for McD probably helped them execute Jauron Ball at a better level early in the season to get off to that 5-2 start.    It was kinda' ridiculous though.   Teams just don't buy off already well paid leadership like that very often.  Hopefully it will yield long term results and not just one Jauron Ball back-into-playoff season.    Roster is pretty depleted.   Can use every dollar over the next few years.   

 

If you were a cynic you could (would) say that.  But Shady had 3 years left on a deal that paid him well and Wood had always been a good soldier.  In any case, it worked great.  The Bills got off the playoffs schneid, cleared cap room for 2019, and got assets to put themselves into position to get their franchise QB.  And over the off-season they improved the defense. 

[jdonley1180]

I think Wyatt Teller will be a pleasant surprise. A, T.J Lang type  find if you will

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Actually I think the payments to Wood and McCoy were basically hush money.     As in you guys are the vocal leaders in the locker room and you can see that we have made and want to continue to make the team less talented by ridding themselves of young players who were perhaps poorly influenced in recent seasons........all in the name of getting in people who won't question the HC........and we need you to be some of those unquestioning guys.     So here is money you wouldn't otherwise get from any other organization in the NFL.    The Bills have kinda' done things like this in the past when they were desperate.    Like the Kelsay extensions.?   In this case getting McCoy to stop his grumbling after his displeasure with the Watkins trade and Wood shitting sunshine and rainbows for McD probably helped them execute Jauron Ball at a better level early in the season to get off to that 5-2 start.    It was kinda' ridiculous though.   Teams just don't buy off already well paid leadership like that very often.  Hopefully it will yield long term results and not just one Jauron Ball back-into-playoff season.    Roster is pretty depleted.   Can use every dollar over the next few years.   

Hush money.  What complete drivel.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

On 5/25/2018 at 6:02 PM, NewEra said:

The Seattle game was 100% lost because of the refs.  

 

That, and Cliff Avril taking Jordan Mills' lunch

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

That, and Cliff Avril taking Jordan Mills' lunch

 

That funny, and I can't help but picture Mills with his "lunch box" and Avril stealing his ham sandwich and ding dongs.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Hush money.  What complete drivel.

 

 

Give me another example of a team adding incentives that do not benefit the team in any way financially to a well paid players contract who has years left on his deal just weeks before the season.

 

You can't and you won't see anyone else do it.    

 

The media in a bigger market would have had a field day with a new regime paying off leadership to fluff the new regime's process.

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

That, and Cliff Avril taking Jordan Mills' lunch

We kicked the fg.  The refs took points off the board on a bogus call.  Complete bs.  One of the worst calls in nfl history as it was caused by the referees.  We did nothing wrong 

[transplantbillsfan]

Yes... I remember lots of talk of Groy being a potential upgrade on Wood.

 

Dawkins, Bodine, Groy, Miller, Mills...

 

That's what I think our OL will ultimately consist of, with Groy or Bodine being the Center and the other being a Guard.

 

I think our OL will be just fine, honestly.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Yes... I remember lots of talk of Groy being a potential upgrade on Wood.

 

Dawkins, Bodine, Groy, Miller, Mills...

 

That's what I think our OL will ultimately consist of, with Groy or Bodine being the Center and the other being a Guard.

 

I think our OL will be just fine, honestly.

 

Groy can play both center and guard.

 

Has Bodine ever played guard?

[Chandler#81]

When I read the topic title, I immediately thought of the Mike Montler/Bruce Jarvis competition. Jarvis was the better talent but couldn’t stay healthy. Montler was just plain STRONG! 

 

How silly of me..?

[Doc]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Give me another example of a team adding incentives that do not benefit the team in any way financially to a well paid players contract who has years left on his deal just weeks before the season.

 

You can't and you won't see anyone else do it.    

 

The media in a bigger market would have had a field day with a new regime paying off leadership to fluff the new regime's process.

 

They added incentives into his contract, meaning he needed to hit certain milestones to earn the extra money. It wasn’t a big deal at all.

[SoTier]

On 5/27/2018 at 12:04 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Actually I think the payments to Wood and McCoy were basically hush money.     As in you guys are the vocal leaders in the locker room and you can see that we have made and want to continue to make the team less talented by ridding themselves of young players who were perhaps poorly influenced in recent seasons........all in the name of getting in people who won't question the HC........and we need you to be some of those unquestioning guys.     So here is money you wouldn't otherwise get from any other organization in the NFL.    The Bills have kinda' done things like this in the past when they were desperate.    Like the Kelsay extensions.?   In this case getting McCoy to stop his grumbling after his displeasure with the Watkins trade and Wood shitting sunshine and rainbows for McD probably helped them execute Jauron Ball at a better level early in the season to get off to that 5-2 start.    It was kinda' ridiculous though.   Teams just don't buy off already well paid leadership like that very often.  Hopefully it will yield long term results and not just one Jauron Ball back-into-playoff season.    Roster is pretty depleted.   Can use every dollar over the next few years.   

 

I hope you are wrong, but certainly giving Wood and McCoy incentives for 2017 would have likely been a very seamless way to get them to buy into McDermott's "process" without appearing to do so.  I, too, am suspicious that the return to Jauron Ball in 2017 might become the Bills new "norm".

 

On 5/27/2018 at 6:34 PM, oldmanfan said:

Hush money.  What complete drivel.

 

Why do you think that NFL execs/management are exempt from practicing the same kind of ruthless manipulation that we see all the time in other businesses -- and in government, organizations, and even families?  Have you never known of somebody high up a corporate food chain who used financial incentives or a strategic promotion or transfer to accomplish some goal without appearing to do so?   I'm not saying that this was the case with the Bills deals with Wood and McCoy, but it's not outside the realm of possibility, particularly with Russ Brandon at the head of the organization. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by SoTier