Moving up to #2 = No Playoffs for the next three years

[#34fan]

14 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Calm down,  what's with the sensitivity?  Pretty childish.  We were having a discussion.  

 

LOL,  -I just gave you some advice... I think the only one being sensitive is you.

 

 

[Threedollabills]

On 2018-04-03 at 12:10 PM, jr1 said:

people have already written off AJ

Yeah I feel like AJ is a better QB than Tyrod. He's got flaws for sure and I'm not saying he is the next Tony Romo even, but the guy has shown he can hang in there and throw (really good) receivers open. I bet AJ, even though wayyyy less mobile than T2, will get sacked way less. Trust the process.

[#34fan]

1 hour ago, Wily Dog said:

But if you don't have a QB you are screwed to the wall. and that is what we have been trying to tell you status quo people that, the time is now.

 for trading up for a Quarterback. The QB we get will not play the first year presumably , so there is little chance of injury . 

 

You're making two very big assumptions here... The first, is that we won't have a QB unless we sacrifice valuable picks to get one... I reject that line of thinking completely... I think if you get a high-pick QB, with no one protecting him, -no one for him to throw to, and zero talent supporting him on defense, you've basically screwed YOURSELF !  -We'll have a three-and-out circus with sideline breaks so the rookie can watch the other team score... That's IF he doesn't sustain a major injury... How will the "QB Now!" chorus feel then?

 

Secondly, -why is the time now???  Sounds like the same desperation that allows for Brandon Weeden  Ryan Tanneyhill, and Johnny Manziel to be picked WAY higher than they merit... But OK... Let' say McBeane is really under the gun... How about both firsts, and a third next year... --That's the most I'd pay to draft in 2018's top 5.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by #34fan

[Where’sLloyd]

Nobody in the top 5 is going to trade their pick to fall back to 12 and 21or whatever we have now because Buffalo entices them with a 3rd rounder next year. That’s ludicrous. It will take next year’s first as well to move up that high.

 

they might be able to stand pat and get a guy, but I don’t think this year’s batch of QBs are Manuel, Locker, Ponder etc. I think some future stars in this league are coming out this year and Buffalo wisely doesn’t want to be outside looking in for the next 17 years.  

[Boatdrinks]

You can't reset the draft pick value chart to suit your own needs. GMs have to live in the real world, not by the #34 fan value chart. Beane will make the move he feels is right in the end , the one that fits in their rebuild plan. He has a limit, and none of us knows what that is and for which player. Bottom line, QB is the most important mportant position on the field. A good QB needs good  to great talent around him. A great QB ( there are very few of these) can win with average talent. You try to get a great one when you can, and that's usually at the top of the draft order. It's not exact , but the odds are better. 

[Wily Dog]

2 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Look, there will be a QB.  Honest !!  They will have somebody behind center other than the punter.  I am 96.32 % sure of this.

no sh---.

1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

You're making two very big assumptions here... The first, is that we won't have a QB unless we sacrifice valuable picks to get one... I reject that line of thinking completely... I think if you get a high-pick QB, with no one protecting him, -no one for him to throw to, and zero talent supporting him on defense, you've basically screwed YOURSELF !  -We'll have a three-and-out circus with sideline breaks so the rookie can watch the other team score... That's IF he doesn't sustain a major injury... How will the "QB Now!" chorus feel then?

 

Secondly, -why is the time now???  Sounds like the same desperation that allows for Brandon Weeden  Ryan Tanneyhill, and Johnny Manziel to be picked WAY higher than they merit... But OK... Let' say McBeane is really under the gun... How about both firsts, and a third next year... --That's the most I'd pay to draft in 2018's top 5.

 

 

 

 

You are making assumption that is entirely correct , to get what you want you have to give up something , presumably draft picks. The offensive line last year was ranked #6 in the league. I said that the rookie probably wouldn't play the first year, to learn. I have no qualms about starting McCarron/ Peterman in the interim . The offensive line may be better than last year and i don't think that it was a pressing need as are linebacker, wide receiver and of course quarterback.The time is now because we will never have as many high picks as we have this year. Your fallacy is that you think that if you draft a player ,other than a quarter back , that he is going to be good. You don't have to look beyond the Bill's to dispel that theory. Beane has shored up the defensive line  and has dabbled a little bit on the offensive line. I know a lot of people are skittish about trading up because we haven't done a very good job in the past i.e. Watkins , Losman, and Manuel. The new F.O. team has a track record of success , albeit limited, in the past year.If , Beane wants to trade up i am all for it because , in order to get better you cannot afraid to take a chance on a reasonably thought out decision.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Wily Dog

[#34fan]

5 hours ago, Wily Dog said:

 Your fallacy is that you think that if you draft a player ,other than a quarter back , that he is going to be good.

 

False... TBH, I think if we keep both 2nd's and both 3rd's we could end up with 2 valuable NFL starters.... To me, that beats forking over a king's ransom on 1 kid who may not work out.

[What a Tuel]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

False... TBH, I think if we keep both 2nd's and both 3rd's we could end up with 2 valuable NFL starters.... To me, that beats forking over a king's ransom on 1 kid who may not work out.

 

Would you trade 2 quality starters at any position for a quality starting QB?

 

I mean you guys shift the goal posts here. When you talk about filling out the roster you are overly ambitious about their contributions to the team. To the point that not having these players will be a detriment to the team for years to come.

 

When you talk about the QB, he is just "1 kid who may not work out".

 

So how big of a detriment to the team would it be if this "kid" is successful on a high level, and we passed on him? I mean you consider the detriment of not having the hole fillers. Why would you not consider the detriment of not having a starting QB?

 

Because I can promise you, missing on a starting QB is going to be a lot more devastating than not drafting a LB and a WR one year. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by What a Tuel

[#34fan]

6 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Would you trade 2 quality starters at any position for a quality starting QB?

 

 

Yes... I  could let go of a quality LB, and a quality LS for a quality QB.  -Not a quality WR, TE, or DT. I don't think those can be replaced any easier than a good QB.

[Wily Dog]

12 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

False... TBH, I think if we keep both 2nd's and both 3rd's we could end up with 2 valuable NFL starters.... To me, that beats forking over a king's ransom on 1 kid who may not work out.

You are saying that drafting for a franchise QB is not a good idea. I say it is because of the position our team is in. You have to take a chance if you want success and it is not guaranteed but it will be an educated decision by our F.O.. When would you like to draft a franchise QB ? and be reminded that your chances are very low , the  lower you go in the draft.

.

[#34fan]

5 minutes ago, Wily Dog said:

You are saying that drafting for a franchise QB is not a good idea.

 

Not true...  I think it is  a VERY good idea...  I just don't think the timing is very good considering the teams other needs. I also think the asking price for a high pick is detrimental to the long-term success of the team.

 

11 minutes ago, Wily Dog said:

 When would you like to draft a franchise QB ? and be reminded that your chances are very low , the  lower you go in the draft.

 

 

I dunno, man... Two 3rd-rounders and a 6th rounder have won the last four superbowls...  I think there's kids out there that can play at a high level that aren't in the top 5.

I don't think this argument is really about team needs... I agree that a top quarterback is a very good idea... I just think the asking price for that pick is too damn high.

[USABuffaloFan]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:57 AM, Domdab99 said:

Moving up is sexy, it's fun, it's what's for dinner these days. But moving up will set the team's growth back three, maybe five years. Possibly longer. This team has so many holes, that to throw away all these picks on a QB who might be good is insanity. 

 

If we can somehow move up and still have 1 2nd and 1 3rd...I'd be willing to listen. But only for Rosen or Mayfield. Trading up for any of the other QBs is insanity. Especially since Jackson has a very good chance of being there at 12. Hell, he has a good chance of being there at 22.

 

I'd rather pick an elite player at 12 - Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea....etc. Use the rest of the picks on holes like WR, OL, DL, LB....

 

Throwing away this draft along with a first next next year? No thanks. 

Again, a month ago you were saying the exact opposite. Bills moved to 12 and all Bills fan's could say was there was no way they made that move not to get in the top 5 no matter the cost. Franchise QB was a must in this draft. What changed your mind?

[USABuffaloFan]

On 4/3/2018 at 12:06 PM, billsfan5121 said:

Why do some people think that picking a position player can’t produce a bust as well?  It’s like people are afraid of a qb because they might fail, but then talk about all of the picks in the first three rounds as if they are locks to be great.  Here’s a concept.  If our staff is good enough to nail 6 picks over 3 rounds, they are good enough to pick a qb.  

Without positional players that are good your QB won't win. Just look at Luck past couple years. Luck is a Franchise QB for sure but has no team around him. Right now Bills have way too many holes. You can get a couple really good QB's with 9 picks available to you without going to Top 5. Again outside oF Allen (Complete athlete) and Baker (Heisman) all the other QB's have issues and are no better physically than 3-4 other QB's out there. If your going to sit the pick till next year or year after go for upside. Brady made his arm stronger, called triceps and wrist/hand strength. Weight room is not any of these QB's friends like it will be in the NFL. Love for Buffalo to get Baker or Allen at 12, probably won't happen. Darnold and Rosen are going Top 5. Buffalo can get two QB's 2nd round or later with strong arms/and or better intangibles. My choices are 2 QB's out of these 4; Falk, Lauletta, McGough or White. My choices are Lauletta at 53 (NE will grab if you wait) and Falk or McGough at 166.

8 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Would you trade 2 quality starters at any position for a quality starting QB?

 

I mean you guys shift the goal posts here. When you talk about filling out the roster you are overly ambitious about their contributions to the team. To the point that not having these players will be a detriment to the team for years to come.

 

When you talk about the QB, he is just "1 kid who may not work out".

 

So how big of a detriment to the team would it be if this "kid" is successful on a high level, and we passed on him? I mean you consider the detriment of not having the hole fillers. Why would you not consider the detriment of not having a starting QB?

 

Because I can promise you, missing on a starting QB is going to be a lot more devastating than not drafting a LB and a WR one year. 

Like last year trading with KC?

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Wily Dog said:

You are saying that drafting for a franchise QB is not a good idea. I say it is because of the position our team is in. You have to take a chance if you want success and it is not guaranteed but it will be an educated decision by our F.O.. When would you like to draft a franchise QB ? and be reminded that your chances are very low , the  lower you go in the draft.

.

 

MAybe he's already on the roster.

[#34fan]

49 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

 Darnold and Rosen are going Top 5. Buffalo can get two QB's 2nd round or later with strong arms/and or better intangibles. My choices are 2 QB's out of these 4; Falk, Lauletta, McGough or White. My choices are Lauletta at 53 (NE will grab if you wait) and Falk or McGough at 166.

 

White or Ferguson in the third, if we don't go QB in round one...

[Wily Dog]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

Fat chance

MAybe he's already on the roster.

 

1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

White or Ferguson in the third, if we don't go QB in round one...

The top four are rated well above the rest and as i said the lower you go the less chance of success you have. I said i wanted you to draft a FRANCHISE QB .You by your actions are not going to get a franchise QB . You are going to get another backup. Beane has shown some big cajones in the past and i would expect him to do it again in the draft.A very good thing that a lot of you are not in a GM position. Little Cajones

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Wily Dog said:

 

The top four are rated well above the rest and as i said the lower you go the less chance of success you have. I said i wanted you to draft a FRANCHISE QB .You by your actions are not going to get a franchise QB . You are going to get another backup. Beane has shown some big cajones in the past and i would expect him to do it again in the draft.A very good thing that a lot of you are not in a GM position. Little Cajones

 

but maybe he will. You know the argument (and it's a good one)

 

Tommy

Russell Wilson

Brett Favre

DrewBreez 

Kurt Warner

Matt Hasselbeck

tony Romo

Kirk Cousins

Derek Carr

Johnny Unitas

...

 

 

[#34fan]

1 hour ago, Wily Dog said:

 

The top four are rated well above the rest and as i said the lower you go the less chance of success you have. I said i wanted you to draft a FRANCHISE QB .You by your actions are not going to get a franchise QB . You are going to get another backup. Beane has shown some big cajones in the past and i would expect him to do it again in the draft.A very good thing that a lot of you are not in a GM position. Little Cajones

 

How high was Jamarcus Russell rated?... Matt Leinhart?... What about Manziel and Weeden.?..  It's the raisin-nut mothrf___ers that allow peer pressure to steer their judgement...Takes way more sack to tell Gettleman "f__k -off",  if he wants too much.

 

 

 

 

[TigerJ]

I don't know if trading up that high makes the playoffs impossible, but trading that high would be too costly for me if I am Beane.

[Wily Dog]

1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

How high was Jamarcus Russell rated?... Matt Leinhart?... What about Manziel and Weeden.?..  It's the raisin-nut mothrf___ers that allow peer pressure to steer their judgement...Takes way more sack to tell Gettleman "f__k -off",  if he wants too much.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TigerJ said:

I don't know if trading up that high makes the playoffs impossible, but trading that high would be too costly for me if I am Beane.

 

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

but maybe he will. You know the argument (and it's a good one)

 

Tommy

Russell Wilson

Brett Favre

DrewBreez 

Kurt Warner

Matt Hasselbeck

tony Romo

Kirk Cousins

Derek Carr

Johnny Unitas

...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

How high was Jamarcus Russell rated?... Matt Leinhart?... What about Manziel and Weeden.?..  It's the raisin-nut mothrf___ers that allow peer pressure to steer their judgement...Takes way more sack to tell Gettleman "f__k -off",  if he wants too much.

 

 

 

 

It seems to me that you have all decided that you want go the SAFE route in the draft. We have been doing that for years for a QB. I think Beane will surprise you and you can whine and cry  all you want to.This is a new era in Bill's organization. Big Balls

[Domdab99]

1 hour ago, Wily Dog said:

 

 

 

It seems to me that you have all decided that you want go the SAFE route in the draft. We have been doing that for years for a QB. I think Beane will surprise you and you can whine and cry  all you want to.This is a new era in Bill's organization. Big Balls

 

Such a horrible take.

 

This is not an either/or situation. Either trade up or don't. I have no problem with trading up to get our guy, UNLESS it's for a king's ransom. That's my point. It's not worth it. Not when a Lamar Jackson or Rudolph or someone else will be there for us. I guess if the FO thinks, say, Rosen is the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning, then, ok, I can see trading up for him by giving away the farm. But if Rosen is that good, why are the Giants not taking him? Remember, for a trade to happen, the Giants or the Browns or the Colts need to believe that trading DOWN is better than taking that potential franchise QB everyone on here is so willing to mortgage the future for.

 

It's a sliding scale, not a yes/no thing. There should be a limit for which you are willing to trade up for. What is it? If there's not, you have no business discussing this. 

 

 

[What a Tuel]

9 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

Such a horrible take.

 

This is not an either/or situation. Either trade up or don't. I have no problem with trading up to get our guy, UNLESS it's for a king's ransom. That's my point. It's not worth it. Not when a Lamar Jackson or Rudolph or someone else will be there for us. I guess if the FO thinks, say, Rosen is the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning, then, ok, I can see trading up for him by giving away the farm. But if Rosen is that good, why are the Giants not taking him? Remember, for a trade to happen, the Giants or the Browns or the Colts need to believe that trading DOWN is better than taking that potential franchise QB everyone on here is so willing to mortgage the future for.

 

It's a sliding scale, not a yes/no thing. There should be a limit for which you are willing to trade up for. What is it? If there's not, you have no business discussing this. 

 

But your point is that you don't want them to trade up if they are wrong, and if they can get a successful QB by not trading up then great! But the problem is that no one really knows who will be "the guy". The top 4 have been evaluated to go first for many reasons, if Beane identifies one as the guy he wants, he isn't going to want Rudolph at 22 or whenever. He is going to want X guy at X time. 

 

So once again it isn't about picking a QB, it is about picking the RIGHT QB, and Beane has a lot on his shoulders to get this right.

[That_Guy]

pssst!  we weren't going to the playoffs for the next three years anyway

[Wily Dog]

2 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

But your point is that you don't want them to trade up if they are wrong, and if they can get a successful QB by not trading up then great! But the problem is that no one really knows who will be "the guy". The top 4 have been evaluated to go first for many reasons, if Beane identifies one as the guy he wants, he isn't going to want Rudolph at 22 or whenever. He is going to want X guy at X time. 

 

So once again it isn't about picking a QB, it is about picking the RIGHT QB, and Beane has a lot on his shoulders to get this right.

That is it in a nutshell, they are "chicken" to trade up . 

1 hour ago, That_Guy said:

pssst!  we weren't going to the playoffs for the next three years anyway

We will be in the playoffs before then. ! Ye of little faith,

[The Red King]

I love absolutes.  Didn't Rodak, after all the trades last offseason, say the season was over before it began...and then we broke the drought?  While I understand the intent of the thread, the assertation that we will, with 100% certainty, not make the playoffs for a full three years should we trade up to #2 is a rather silly one.  Anything can happen.

 

Found it: http://www.espncricinfo.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/28518/bills-set-up-tyrod-taylor-to-fail-blow-up-2017-season-with-shocking-trades

 

"BUFFALO -- Turn out the lights on the Buffalo Bills' 2017 season, because it is over before it started."

Edited April 9, 2018 by The Red King

[John from Riverside]

18 hours ago, Wily Dog said:

 

The top four are rated well above the rest and as i said the lower you go the less chance of success you have. I said i wanted you to draft a FRANCHISE QB .You by your actions are not going to get a franchise QB . You are going to get another backup. Beane has shown some big cajones in the past and i would expect him to do it again in the draft.A very good thing that a lot of you are not in a GM position. Little Cajones

Oh if it was only that simple

 

Maybe someone else jumps in and makes a trade ruining our plans......

 

Maybe the asking price ends up being too much

 

Gotta have a plan B

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, That_Guy said:

pssst!  we weren't going to the playoffs for the next three years anyway

 

Who wasn't and why not?

 

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

 

We went with the worst QB in the entire NFL.  how can we not with someone better (anyone is bettsr)?

Edited April 9, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Mat68]

17 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

but maybe he will. You know the argument (and it's a good one)

 

Tommy

Russell Wilson

Brett Favre

DrewBreez 

Kurt Warner

Matt Hasselbeck

tony Romo

Kirk Cousins

Derek Carr

Johnny Unitas

...

 

 

Those Qbs highlighted were not expected to play early or compete for the starting position.  Buffalo has a 5th rder who played horrible his rookie year and a career back up.  Any qb drafted will be the most talented QB on the roster and expected to play early.  Extremely risky and probably stupid to assume you are smarter than 32 other franchises to rate a 6-10 rated QB in this class a franchise Qb.  

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Mat68 said:

Those Qbs highlighted were not expected to play early or compete for the starting position.  Buffalo has a 5th rder who played horrible his rookie year and a career back up.  Any qb drafted will be the most talented QB on the roster and expected to play early.  Extremely risky and probably stupid to assume you are smarter than 32 other franchises to rate a 6-10 rated QB in this class a franchise Qb.  

 

Saying Nasty Nate is a "career backup" is generous IMHO.

[Mat68]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

Saying Nasty Nate is a "career backup" is generous IMHO.

Mccarron

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Mat68 said:

Mccarron

 

He played horrible his rookie year?  How so?

 

He didn't even play his rookie year. http://www.nfl.com/player/ajmccarron/2543497/profile

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

I love absolutes.  Didn't Rodak, after all the trades last offseason, say the season was over before it began...and then we broke the drought?  While I understand the intent of the thread, the assertation that we will, with 100% certainty, not make the playoffs for a full three years should we trade up to #2 is a rather silly one.  Anything can happen.

 

Found it: http://www.espncricinfo.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/28518/bills-set-up-tyrod-taylor-to-fail-blow-up-2017-season-with-shocking-trades

 

"BUFFALO -- Turn out the lights on the Buffalo Bills' 2017 season, because it is over before it started."

 

Wow you found an example by a P*TS fan!

[The Red King]

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Wow you found an example by a P*TS fan!

 

I did, but the example holds.  He wasn't the only one saying the season was already over at that point.