For all who want to trade up so bad

[CuddyDark]

Just now, terrytate said:

 

Teams that have traded picks to get their qb in the top 5.

 

1. Wentz. worked out

2. Goff   worked out

3. Eli worked out

 

If all those teams can give up picks to get a qb and be competitive so can we.  

 

Those QBs were all rated higher than the QBs in this draft. The only QB with as much talent is Darnold and he's coming out after starting two years so you really have to do a larger projection on him then you did with the others because they had more college starting experience.

[Hebert19]

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Rams were a worst to first type turnaround.  The Eagles had an MVP candidate at QB before he was injured.

 

You're not trying at all.

Before we anoint goff king I want to see if this is a foles mirage or not.   Is he the guy that played terribly as a rookie or the guy that played well with arguably the best supporting cast in football???   We will see next year. 

[BillsFan17]

You don't make the moves this franchise has dating back to the restructure of Tyrods deal, to come away with McCaron and the scraps left of the top And.

 

The second Beane traded up for 12, reports were Buffalo was trying to get up to three with the Colts...

 

That tells me they want one of the big boys and were left on the sidelines.

[terrytate]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

Those QBs were all rated higher than the QBs in this draft. The only QB with as much talent is Darnold and he's coming out after starting two years so you really have to do a larger projection on him then you did with the others because they had more college starting experience.

 

no.  Wentz threw 600 passes in his career for a d2 college .  When he was drafted no one knew who the hell he was , it was all highlights and projections.  If anyone knew how good he was going to be the Browns could've gotten a lot more for him.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Meant late first round v top 5. 24 v 17 on samples of just over 30. Confidence intervals would overlap at that sample size, meaning statistically equivalent. 

 

My read on the eagles is chip is a bad nfl coach who built a talented ROSTER. Good coaches took advantage of the set up to the fullest. But Foles won the ring, not Wentz. 

 

If the goal is to draft a QB who will play in a SB, he is most likely to be found in the top 5 picks--no matter how you ended up picking in the top 5.

 

Yes we all see that Foles won the Sb.  But  do you think that Foles wins all the games that Wentz won before he was injured?  I'm trying to get you to comment specifically on the Wentz pick.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

Teams that have traded picks to get their qb in the top 5.

 

1. Wentz. worked out

2. Goff   worked out

3. Eli worked out

 

If all those teams can give up picks to get a qb and be competitive so can we.  

 

 

But the bills went just as far in the playoffs as the rams with a fifth round cast off... sigh alright your right Carson Wentz won the playoff from IR.

 

i give up. Beane if you don’t trade every pick for the next 5 years to draft matt leinart or Robert Griffin I’m so done with this team 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Please educate me: 

 

top versus rest of first round super bowl start %.... what is the Confidence interval on the data set? 

 

Di you understand the interaction between sample size? 

 

Ill sit sit back and await my recalibration. 

2

 

You just changed your original premise.  In any event, your parsing of this data is an interesting take.

 

EDIT:  My bad.  I just read your post again.

Edited March 18, 2018 by N.Y. Orangeman

[terrytate]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

But the bills went just as far in the playoffs as the rams with a fifth round cast off... sigh alright your right Carson Wentz won the playoff from IR.

 

i give up. Beane if you don’t trade every pick for the next 5 years to draft matt leinart or Robert Griffin I’m so done with this team 

 

Are you insinuating that we are further along than the rams?

[CuddyDark]

2 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

no.  Wentz threw 600 passes in his career for a d2 college .  When he was drafted no one knew who the hell he was , it was all highlights and projections.  If anyone knew how good he was going to be the Browns could've gotten a lot more for him.

 

 

He was a senior who got to play in the senior bowl where every GM could actually see what and who he was. Darnold wouldn't even work out at the combine. I'd take Wentz over Darnold every time. Doesn't mean Darnold wont be better in the long run just means he has more questions.

[McBean]

40 minutes ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

 

This really isn't that difficult...

 

 

End thread.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If the goal is to draft a QB who will play in a SB, he is most likely to be found in the top 5 picks--no matter how you ended up picking in the top 5.

 

Yes we all see that Foles won the Sb.  But  do you think that Foles wins all the games that Wentz won before he was injured?  I'm trying to get you to comment specifically on the Wentz pick.

 

I get the Wentz  pick WEO I get it. But that team won without him against the greatest qb ever. That roster and coaching staff was just as competitive with a nearly retired castoff journeyman. But now the bar for Wentz is very high to prove he was worth it all. Very much tbd. Reports are his knee injury rg3 bad. 

 

Wentz had had as much to do with this run as Phil Simms did with Super Bowl 25

 

[Chicken Boo]

40 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t think the Jets or their fans will care too long about what they gave up if it means they have a legit franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. 

 

Chances are the Jets will ruin whoever they draft.

 

Their roster is truly ****.  Couple that with the NY media and it's a recipe for disaster.

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

He was a senior who got to play in the senior bowl where every GM could actually see what and who he was. Darnold wouldn't even work out at the combine. I'd take Wentz over Darnold every time. Doesn't mean Darnold wont be better in the long run just means he has more questions.

 

Wentz had to throw every chance he got because no one saw him.   Darnold was playing on national television every game.  

[CuddyDark]

Just now, terrytate said:

 

Wentz had to throw every chance he got because no one saw him.   Darnold was playing on national television every game.  

Everyone was talking about Wentz during the football season. Even Whaley and his guys were talking abuot Wentz months before the senior bowl.

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I get the Wentz  pick WEO I get it. But that team won without him against the greatest qb ever. That roster and coaching staff was just as competitive with a nearly retired castoff journeyman. But now the bar for Wentz is very high to prove he was worth it all. Very much tbd. Reports are his knee injury rg3 bad. 

 

Wentz had had as much to do with this run as Phil Simms did with Super Bowl 25

 

 

Well wentz got them a bye, and he got them home field advantage .  He had a lot to do with their success.  His knee maybe rg3 bad, but his Mind and Arm are Peyton manning good. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I get the Wentz  pick WEO I get it. But that team won without him against the greatest qb ever. That roster and coaching staff was just as competitive with a nearly retired castoff journeyman. But now the bar for Wentz is very high to prove he was worth it all. Very much tbd. Reports are his knee injury rg3 bad. 

 

Wentz had had as much to do with this run as Phil Simms did with Super Bowl 25

 

 

You didn't answer my question.  You keep restating the result we all saw.

 

Foles isn't a guy off the street by the way.  He had success with a very different Eagles teams several years ago.

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Everyone was talking about Wentz during the football season. Even Whaley and his guys were talking abuot Wentz months before the senior bowl.

 

months?  you mean those 2 months where he had a broken wrist.  Wentz got drafted by his size and arm talent.  Not by his college performance. 

[THEHARDTRUTH]

25 minutes ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

Wow...that is a fascinating spin.

Its called Im gonna add a couple big words to my take combined with a little psycho babble so I can confuse the crap out of everyone and hope they think I actually know what Im taking about. Or hes just trying to be funny which didnt work at all.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

There are so many ways to fill out a roster and we have so many dead drafts where we have nothing to show. I really can’t understand why people over value draft picks the way they do. It wouldn’t take our whole draft to move to 1, but just to show the extreme. If we traded our ENTIRE draft for  #1 and took Darnold, we would still be fine. And better off today then we were at any point in recent memory. The QB is just a different thing all together. The Jets will be fine and we will look terrible if they get one of the 2 very good QBs. We have plenty of picks. Trading up was the only way to go IMO. If we arent going up, why were we so quick to move all those good players last year? We did that to get the best qb. Not the best guy left after the good ones are gone.

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

months?  you mean those 2 months where he had a broken wrist.  Wentz got drafted by his size and arm talent.  Not by his college performance. 

Months before. Months. Go google it.

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Months before. Months. Go google it.

 

 

How many qb's in college do you think can throw it 60 mph?  Not many and those who can are automatically at the top of any prospects list to scout.  Not surprising to see wentz up there.  he got there on his physical abilities not his college performance.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You didn't answer my question.  You keep restating the result we all saw.

 

Foles isn't a guy off the street by the way.  He had success with a very different Eagles teams several years ago.

 

I don’t understand the question then. 

 

Is wentz good- seemed like it till he blew out his knee and became a cheerleader 

 

did the eagles win the championship- yes

 

did Wentz have something to do with it- partially 

 

was it worth the future collateral they traded- TBD

 

Would wentz have won the Super Bowl- don’t know

 

Will he be able to carry the team once they shed talent without the replenishing picks- unknown

 

There is no conclusion on wentz. His story isn’t yet written. He made some nice plays. He’s not won a playoff game in two seasons as a pro despite being a #2 overall. Same is true of #1 Foles.

 

maybe the gotta trade into the top 5 crowd should follow the jets. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Putin]

51 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t think the Jets or their fans will care too long about what they gave up if it means they have a legit franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. 

( IF ) 

[IndyMark]

39 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

 

I am going to let you in on a little secret.  I found a way to improve the offensive line, the wr's, the te, the rb's, and The DEFENSE.  Guess how.  

 

Getting a stud qb, that is how.  

 

Agreed; unfortunately the 2018 draft class is bankrupt of a stud.  Or if he is in fact there, it is as likely as Rudolph and Jackson as it it Darnold or Rosen.

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Putin said:

( IF ) 

 

Well...yeah

[CuddyDark]

7 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

 

How many qb's in college do you think can throw it 60 mph?  Not many and those who can are automatically at the top of any prospects list to scout.  Not surprising to see wentz up there.  he got there on his physical abilities not his college performance.  

This is not true though. Teams started scouting Wentz back in college, during the college season. Like I said even our failed GM Doug Whaley.

 

http://buffalonews.com/2016/01/28/carson-wentz-draws-the-bills-attention-and-for-good-reason/

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/1/29/10867820/2016-nfl-draft-carson-wentz-senior-bowl-buffalo-bills-doug-whaley

Edited March 18, 2018 by CuddyDark

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I don’t understand the question then. 

 

Is wentz good- seemed like it till he blew out his knee and became a cheerleader 

 

did the eagles win the championship- yes

 

did Wentz have something to do with it- partially 

 

was it worth the future collateral they traded- TBD

 

Would wentz have won the Super Bowl- don’t know

 

Will he be able to carry the team once they shed talent without the replenishing picks- unknown

 

There is no conclusion on wentz. His story isn’t yet written. He made some nice plays. He’s not won a playoff game in two seasons as a pro despite being a #2 overall. Same is true of #1 Foles.

 

maybe the gotta trade into the top 5 crowd should follow the jets. 

 

The question was simple.  In retrospect, do you think Wentz was an unnecessary pick/wasted pick?

 

You should be able to answer with a yes or no. 

[terrytate]

Just now, IndyMark said:

 

Agreed; unfortunately the 2018 draft class is bankrupt of a stud.  Or if he is in fact there, it is as likely as Rudolph and Jackson as it it Darnold or Rosen.

 

I think the big 4 can all be studs.  I think Rosen is the best, Allen highest ceiling, darnold safest, and Mayfield kind of a wildcard.  He is like russell wilson. 

 

This is the best qb class since the ben, rivers, eli draft.  And that was a long time ago. 

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I don’t understand the question then. 

 

Is wentz good- seemed like it till he blew out his knee and became a cheerleader 

 

did the eagles win the championship- yes

 

did Wentz have something to do with it- partially 

 

was it worth the future collateral they traded- TBD

 

Would wentz have won the Super Bowl- don’t know

 

Will he be able to carry the team once they shed talent without the replenishing picks- unknown

 

There is no conclusion on wentz. His story isn’t yet written. He made some nice plays. He’s not won a playoff game in two seasons as a pro despite being a #2 overall. Same is true of #1 Foles.

 

maybe the gotta trade into the top 5 crowd should follow the jets. 

He was a going for MVP before getting hurt , 

and BTW I’m pretty sure we’d give up 3 maybe even more 1st round picks for another  Carson Wentz 

[WideRightRevenge]

32 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

To me, what makes this Draft class so unique is that there truly could be 5 or 6 amazing QBs who all bring their individual ability to lead a franchise. To make this point, some of the best QBs in the NFL do it all very differently:

1. Darnold - Rivers

2. Rosen - Eli

3. Mayfield - Brees

4. Rudolph - Tannehill 

5. Jackson - a better version of Vick

6. Allen - Big Ben (if accuracy can improve)

7. Mike White - Cousins

 

And that’s not accounting for guys like Luke Falk or Kyle Lauletta. Remember guys like Jimmy G, Cousins, Russ Wilson, Derek Carr were all taken in 2nd Round or later. 

 

What this means to me is that this is not Winston / Mariotta where you basically have 2 guys, head and shoulders above the rest. You’ve got a great QB class that is wide and deep....which IMO means you use that to your advantage. 

 

Dead nuts on ... agree with this analogy in terms of the QB depth .. don't mortgage the farm

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

 

This really isn't that difficult...

 

but it is that difficult. We have a generation of fans who are used to this style of roster building from us - horrendous records be damned.

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

This is not true though. Teams started scouting Wentz back in college, during the college season. Like I said even our failed GM Doug Whaley.

 

http://buffalonews.com/2016/01/28/carson-wentz-draws-the-bills-attention-and-for-good-reason/

 

Of course they did, but there was not a lot of tape on him.  Good lord are you joking with me.  Darnold has been discussed as the first overall pick all year.  Mayock said in that article that "he may be a first rounder"

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

Well wentz got them a bye, and he got them home field advantage .  He had a lot to do with their success.  His knee maybe rg3 bad, but his Mind and Arm are Peyton manning good. 

 

Should he retire now to accelerate his enshrinement?

 

He’s off to a promising almost 2 seasons but you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself 

[JaCrispy]

58 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t think the Jets or their fans will care too long about what they gave up if it means they have a legit franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. 

Exactly...according to their message board they think they got a steal...I happen to agree.

[terrytate]

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I don’t understand the question then. 

 

Is wentz good- seemed like it till he blew out his knee and became a cheerleader 

 

did the eagles win the championship- yes

 

did Wentz have something to do with it- partially 

 

was it worth the future collateral they traded- TBD

 

Would wentz have won the Super Bowl- don’t know

 

Will he be able to carry the team once they shed talent without the replenishing picks- unknown

 

There is no conclusion on wentz. His story isn’t yet written. He made some nice plays. He’s not won a playoff game in two seasons as a pro despite being a #2 overall. Same is true of #1 Foles.

 

maybe the gotta trade into the top 5 crowd should follow the jets. 

 

The Eagles sure gave up a lot of future collateral.  That roster is so void of talent, how they can even field a team is a mystery to me. 

[Mr. WEO]

36 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

To me, what makes this Draft class so unique is that there truly could be 5 or 6 amazing QBs who all bring their individual ability to lead a franchise. To make this point, some of the best QBs in the NFL do it all very differently:

1. Darnold - Rivers

2. Rosen - Eli

3. Mayfield - Brees

4. Rudolph - Tannehill 

5. Jackson - a better version of Vick

6. Allen - Big Ben (if accuracy can improve)

7. Mike White - Cousins

 

And that’s not accounting for guys like Luke Falk or Kyle Lauletta. Remember guys like Jimmy G, Cousins, Russ Wilson, Derek Carr were all taken in 2nd Round or later. 

 

What this means to me is that this is not Winston / Mariotta where you basically have 2 guys, head and shoulders above the rest. You’ve got a great QB class that is wide and deep....which IMO means you use that to your advantage. 

 

Agree except for Jackson better than Vick.

 

I don't think they are even close.

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Should he retire now to accelerate his enshrinement?

 

He’s off to a promising almost 2 seasons but you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself 

you knwo what i mean, RG3 had a lot more wrong with him than just his knee.  

[stinky finger]

56 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Rudolph at 12 would be horrible. 

Where would he be acceptable?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The question was simple.  In retrospect, do you think Wentz was an unnecessary pick/wasted pick?

 

You should be able to answer with a yes or no. 

 

Can’t. It’s to be determined. His contribution to the eagles success is entirely debatable and the impact of the picks they surrendered won’t be determined until they sustain success with him underpinning it. 

 

But at least he bolstered your probowl percentage with a sympathy nod despite being on crutches ?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

The Rams and Eagles say otherwise.  You get your QB when you can.

 

With that said this is a deep QB class and who knows what can happen.

 

The 2016 draft and 2018 draft are not really comparable because 2016 had only two viable first round QB options. Goff and Wentz went one and two overall. I really don't see either of those guys as better prospects than Darnold and Rosen. Throw in Allen, Mayfield and Jackson and this QB class could be the perfect one to not trade a ton of picks for a franchise QB.