Does Move Up Plan include Big Free Agents

[NastyNateSoldiers]

There are numerous rumors out there of a impending move up to the top of the draft to select our future franchise QB.  If this is the case what's the plan moving forward? Considering its gonna take at least 21 & 22 in 2018  plus a addition 1st in 2019 to move up into the top 5. 

 

What does that leave us with in 2018

Draft pks total 5 pks

2- 2s

1- 3rd

1- 4th

2- 5ths

 

Salary Cap Space 

The Bills currently have 30 mil in cap space . After Roll over and releasing Tyrod we should have nearly 50mil to work with. We also have around 95mil in cap space in 2019 . 

 

That being said how do we move forward knowing we just traded high pks that can turn into building blocks for the future. Does this trade put more emphasis on free agency which we know McBeane has stated doesn't want to spend big money on free agents. I believe McBeane will have no choice but to use free agency to fill the holes we have . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VaMilBill]

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

[KGun12TD]

None of anything matters until we solve the QB problem. The fact is, teams that win have a franchise QB. We need one and then go from there be it in the draft or FA. I don't have a problem giving up a few picks over two year to land a QB that will stay 10-15 years. We will NEVER know until we try. I support McBeane 100% in trying to move up and secure a top flight QB. Win or Lose, we need to do it and find out.

[offyourocker]

2 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

Totally agree.  Nevermind the fact we would have a known quantity vs. a total shot incthe dark when it comes to drafting QB.  We need allcthos picks.  Get Cousins then draft DL and LB with first 2 picks.  Get guard and wr in second round.  Resign Gaines in free agency and then Kyle to 1 year.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

 

I think you've nicely encapsulated the Bills dilemma and why pursuing a big FA like Cousins isn't incompatible with Beane's "build through draft" philosophy.

 

If we trade most of our draft stock to get a QB, we will have that guy at a good salary for 4-5 years.

Meanwhile we need to throw at least 4-5 picks worth of FA salary at FA to fill holes (we won't "have nothing around him", we'll go for FA).

 

I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation comparing what I think Cousins contract will be, with signing (say) a good but not top DT, LB, OL, and WR in FA plus one top player.  Overall, I think the math favors 1 big FA signing plus 4-5 draft picks - at the very least, it's far closer than most make it seem.

 

The other factor is that a 5 year FA contract can be structured so that the 1st year cap hit is manageable.  Now that applies to signing other positions as well as to signing Cousins.

 

Both strategies can have a path to success, but it isn't a "slam dunk" 1 vs the other

 

I know one thing I DON'T want to see, and that's Beane sleeping through the start of FA.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[RochesterRob]

15 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There are numerous rumors out there of a impending move up to the top of the draft to select our future franchise QB.  If this is the case what's the plan moving forward? Considering its gonna take at least 21 & 22 in 2018  plus a addition 1st in 2019 to move up into the top 5. 

 

What does that leave us with in 2018

Draft pks total 5 pks

2- 2s

1- 3rd

1- 4th

2- 5ths

 

Salary Cap Space 

The Bills currently have 30 mil in cap space . After Roll over and releasing Tyrod we should have nearly 50mil to work with. We also have around 95mil in cap space in 2019 . 

 

That being said how do we move forward knowing we just traded high pks that can turn into building blocks for the future. Does this trade put more emphasis on free agency which we know McBeane has stated doesn't want to spend big money on free agents. I believe McBeane will have no choice but to use free agency to fill the holes we have . 

  That's the problem.  Everything at this point is only rumor or speculation.  Buying into the Bills making big trades or signings at this point is only going to lead to disappointment.  People need to accept that they are not part of the decision making team for the Bills therefore these same people will not receive proprietary information ahead of the media 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

13 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

 

Kirk would crumble just as he did in Washington. 

[RochesterRob]

15 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

  Unless the collective bargaining agreement prohibits it the Bills should be able to do a weighted contract where most of the hit occurs in 2019 and 2020 when our other obligations are minimal.

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Kirk would crumble just as he did in Washington. 

  Yes, if we got Cousins it would be a part of a plan to use our picks to build up other positions so no top 10 QB draftee.

[CaptnCoke11]

46 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Kirk would crumble just as he did in Washington. 

What’s the winning lottery numbers for tonight?

[26CornerBlitz]

35 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

What’s the winning lottery numbers for tonight?

 

Is there a football point in your question? Nope!

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There are numerous rumors out there of a impending move up to the top of the draft to select our future franchise QB.  If this is the case what's the plan moving forward? Considering its gonna take at least 21 & 22 in 2018  plus a addition 1st in 2019 to move up into the top 5. 

 

What does that leave us with in 2018

Draft pks total 5 pks

2- 2s

1- 3rd

1- 4th

2- 5ths

 

Salary Cap Space 

The Bills currently have 30 mil in cap space . After Roll over and releasing Tyrod we should have nearly 50mil to work with. We also have around 95mil in cap space in 2019 . 

 

That being said how do we move forward knowing we just traded high pks that can turn into building blocks for the future. Does this trade put more emphasis on free agency which we know McBeane has stated doesn't want to spend big money on free agents. I believe McBeane will have no choice but to use free agency to fill the holes we have . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. In terms of free agency McBeane has already gone on record he isn't going to make a big splash in UFA. I believe him as you look at what we did ast offseason we looked for pieces that didn't break the cap but served us well. Guys like Hyde and Poyer became Pro Bowl caliber after being solid/lackluster with their former teams. We made Humbler, a career STer, into an adequate starter. Gaines did great after be considered a throw in, in the Watkins trade. So I expect us to find more solid guys in UFA that won't break the bank to come in at start for us.  The only disappointments were on offense, I blame that more on Tyrod then anything as Matthews before coming here was an above average WR, here he rarely got targetted and of course injuries hurt him. Benjamin seemed to have his best chemistry with Peterman. 

 

2. Benjamin is going to get an extension, I can't see us trading for him to put us over the top in our playoff run, and getting us there, not re-signing here. Injuries are a concern yes but one healthy he's shown to be a top 15- 20 WR in the NFL.

 

3. We showed we aren't afraid to use draft capital to get guys we like (see Jones and Dawkins trade ups last year). 

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  Unless the collective bargaining agreement prohibits it the Bills should be able to do a weighted contract where most of the hit occurs in 2019 and 2020 when our other obligations are minimal.

  Yes, if we got Cousins it would be a part of a plan to use our picks to build up other positions so no top 10 QB draftee.

Agree. Could use those picks to replace the players that would be gone. Granted they would be rookies and not have the type of experience that the vets have, but still I would rather keep those picks and build around Cousins, but that's just me. I just have trouble seeing them able to land him with all the money he would want, but I would definitely take a swing at Cousins.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Patrick_Duffy

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

2 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

 

By nothing around a QB do you mean Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Charles Clay, Dion Dawkins, Ritchie Incognito and Cordy Glenn? I think people exaggerate the situation because they're afraid this team will pick the wrong QB? Not sure what the deal is but signing peoples castoffs seem to be the right route?

[RochesterRob]

4 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Agree. Could use those picks to replace the players that would be gone. Granted they would be rookies and not have the type of experience that the vets have, but still I would rather keep those picks and build around Cousins, but that's just me. I just have trouble seeing them able to land him with all the money he would want, but I would definitely take a swing at Cousins.

  People do not realize this but there appears to be good prospects down into the third round depending on a team's needs.  There have been more than a few drafts where the odds are not even 50-50 on a prospect when it gets to where we are picking at number 21.

[corta765]

My belief is if the Bills plan on moving up they will be cutting Taylor so capspace wise they around 44-45 million.

 

They need at minimum DT, DE, LB, and WR big time. With that capspace if they could grab Star Loutelli, DaQuan Jones,  Avery Williamson, and Donte Montcrief to solidfy those big needs then sacrificing 2x 1st, a 2nd, a 4th, and next year 1st or 2nd would be plausable because they have enough quality players to fill holes.

 

Free agency for me will be the big thing that shows their hand one way or another. I can't see them trading that high if they don't get 2 impact front 7 guys like Loutelli Jones or Williamson.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

41 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

1. In terms of free agency McBeane has already gone on record he isn't going to make a big splash in UFA. I believe him as you look at what we did ast offseason we looked for pieces that didn't break the cap but served us well. Guys like Hyde and Poyer became Pro Bowl caliber after being solid/lackluster with their former teams. We made Humbler, a career STer, into an adequate starter. Gaines did great after be considered a throw in, in the Watkins trade. So I expect us to find more solid guys in UFA that won't break the bank to come in at start for us.  The only disappointments were on offense, I blame that more on Tyrod then anything as Matthews before coming here was an above average WR, here he rarely got targetted and of course injuries hurt him. Benjamin seemed to have his best chemistry with Peterman. 

 

2. Benjamin is going to get an extension, I can't see us trading for him to put us over the top in our playoff run, and getting us there, not re-signing here. Injuries are a concern yes but one healthy he's shown to be a top 15- 20 WR in the NFL.

 

3. We showed we aren't afraid to use draft capital to get guys we like (see Jones and Dawkins trade ups last year). 

 

 

Its funny how posters here give Beane credit for Hyde and Poyer.

[billykay]

3 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There are numerous rumors out there of a impending move up to the top of the draft to select our future franchise QB.  If this is the case what's the plan moving forward? Considering its gonna take at least 21 & 22 in 2018  plus a addition 1st in 2019 to move up into the top 5. 

 

What does that leave us with in 2018

Draft pks total 5 pks

2- 2s

1- 3rd

1- 4th

2- 5ths

 

Salary Cap Space 

The Bills currently have 30 mil in cap space . After Roll over and releasing Tyrod we should have nearly 50mil to work with. We also have around 95mil in cap space in 2019 . 

 

That being said how do we move forward knowing we just traded high pks that can turn into building blocks for the future. Does this trade put more emphasis on free agency which we know McBeane has stated doesn't want to spend big money on free agents. I believe McBeane will have no choice but to use free agency to fill the holes we have . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In listing our draft choices left after moving up, you forgot that we will have a 1st, the one that we traded up for.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Its funny how posters here give Beane credit for Hyde and Poyer.

I give it credit to the McDermott/Beane connection as I'm sure that McDermott had more say in those signings than are de facto GM at the time Whaley. I say that as a Whaley supporter too but it was obvious before he was let go it seemed/felt like McDermott was running the front office much like it felt like Rex was when he was here. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by The Jokeman

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I give it credit to the McDermott/Beane connection as I'm sure that McDermott had more say in those signings than are de facto GM at the time Whaley. I say that as a Whaley supporter too but it was obvious before he was let go it seemed/felt like McDermott was running the front office much like it felt like Rex was when he was here. 

 

Whaley was pretty good a pro personnel evaluation.

[Wily Dog]

Whaley was excellent at pro personnel evaluation, i.e. Hughes, his problem was in the draft, he wasn't very good.

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

I really hope we get Kirk cousins so we don't have to spend all our picks which are supposed to build the foundation of this team. 

 

I would sign Kirk even if that mean getting rid of Richie, Cordy and letting Preston Brown and Gaines walk. 

 

We trade up and get Rosen we have nothing around him and we also won't have any more picks to get him immediate contributors. We would be throwing him into a very tough situation that I think Kirk could handle for a year. 

 

If the cost for a trade up is both 1sts, a 2nd, and next years 1st I would strongly consider doing it for one of the top QB's. I have gone back and forth on wither or not the QB's in this draft are worth it or not and I think that at some point this team has to make a big move to address the QB situation. Keep Tyrod as a vet option this season and trade up for a big name QB IF you can't get Kirk Cousins. 

 

I think if you can land Kirk Cousins that opens up the Bills to become a contender sooner rather than later. Cousins is a very good QB the past 3 seasons and he never really had a phenomenal offense around him. He has had some good offensive players around him but never elite talent and Cousins always has performed well. If the Bills can land Cousins on a backloaded deal (Keep his 2018 cap number around 20 million then have it hike in 2019 and 2020 before going down in 2021 and beyond) they can then release Tyrod and restructure some other deals to free up some space to keep Gaines and maybe go after 1-2 other starters (A big run stuffing DT and linebacker.)

 

Then you have all those draft picks to spend to build a complete team while not only landing your QB but keeping your number 2 corner and addressing a need or two before the draft. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by billsfan89

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

If the cost for a trade up is both 1sts, a 2nd, and next years 1st I would strongly consider doing it for one of the top QB's. I have gone back and forth on wither or not the QB's in this draft are worth it or not and I think that at some point this team has to make a big move to address the QB situation. Keep Tyrod as a vet option this season and trade up for a big name QB IF you can't get Kirk Cousins. 

 

I think if you can land Kirk Cousins that opens up the Bills to become a contender sooner rather than later. Cousins is a very good QB the past 3 seasons and he never really had a phenomenal offense around him. He has had some good offensive players around him but never elite talent and Cousins always has performed well. If the Bills can land Cousins on a backloaded deal (Keep his 2018 cap number around 20 million then have it hike in 2019 and 2020 before going down in 2021 and beyond) they can then release Tyrod and restructure some other deals to free up some space to keep Gaines and maybe go after 1-2 other starters (A big run stuffing DT and linebacker.)

 

Then you have all those draft picks to spend to build a complete team while not only landing your QB but keeping your number 2 corner and addressing a need or two before the draft. 

I would love to get Cousins that opens up the draft for us to build the rest of the team in Mcd vision

[artmalibu]

I cant wait till the draft is over so the conversation will change.  No one knows what spots are available to move up to or what the cost would be anyway.  Not to mention there is no agreement that there is anyone QB worth trading up to get.  

 

[corta765]

54 minutes ago, Wily Dog said:

Whaley was excellent at pro personnel evaluation, i.e. Hughes, his problem was in the draft, he wasn't very good.

 

I wouldn't say his drafting was that bad. He did draft Watkins, Bradham, Darby, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin, and Ross Cockrell all of which went on to be solid NFL contributors. 2013-14-15 he drafted 3-4 starters per draft and as others have mentioned he did really well grabbing guys like Hughes for pennies on the dollar and the McCoy trade really was a steal.

 

Things went south for him for 3 big reasons:

1. EJ Manuel. EJ was his guy despite Buddy Nix being the "GM" at the time. He did grab Tyrod which worked out better, but had he grabbed a true franchise guy he is probably still here.

2. Rex Ryan. The roster Whaley had with Marrone was quite solid on D and this team misses a guy like Bradham at OLB who was a casualty thanks to Rex. The 2016 draft might as well of just been named the Rex Ryan GM draft because it was all his guys and everyone minus Lawson/Washington are gone which is incredibly bad. Fair or not to Whaley Rex was probably the worst type of coach for the type of roster Whaley was working with with how he churned through players.

3. Contracts. I am a believer sometimes its not a good thing when an owner tells a GM they can just spend money without regard. Whaley was relatively smarter pre-Pegula spending money. Once the go ahead was given in 2015 the contracts went out and we still are feeling these years later to the point 2019 will be the real year Buffalo finally is free of most of the dead money with the Bills having on paper for that year already 85 million in space not factoring in Eric Wood or Cordy Glenn either.

 

I wouldn't say Whaley was bad in free agency either because he seemed pretty good at plugging holes like Brandon Spikes for Kiko or my personal favorite Bacarri Rambo. In the end I think Whaley was better then given credit for and with a second chance and the lessons learned he'd do a bit better also.

Edited February 19, 2018 by corta765

[Dr. Who]

4 hours ago, corta765 said:

My belief is if the Bills plan on moving up they will be cutting Taylor so capspace wise they around 44-45 million.

 

They need at minimum DT, DE, LB, and WR big time. With that capspace if they could grab Star Loutelli, DaQuan Jones,  Avery Williamson, and Donte Montcrief to solidfy those big needs then sacrificing 2x 1st, a 2nd, a 4th, and next year 1st or 2nd would be plausable because they have enough quality players to fill holes.

 

Free agency for me will be the big thing that shows their hand one way or another. I can't see them trading that high if they don't get 2 impact front 7 guys like Loutelli Jones or Williamson.

Well, I largely agree with this.  I think you better try to get at least a more capable RT in FA as well, though.  (I am hoping Miller might rebound at RG with a new scheme.)

[corta765]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I largely agree with this.  I think you better try to get at least a more capable RT in FA as well, though.  (I am hoping Miller might rebound at RG with a new scheme.)

 

O line is def a need and I expect them to add to it, but they still have some capable guys even with Wood out. That front 7 desperately needs an infusion of talent with Washington & Lawson not living up to expectations and pretty much Hughes being their only true solid player that is not ancient (no offense Kyle Williams haha).

[Dr. Who]

Just now, corta765 said:

 

O line is def a need and I expect them to add to it, but they still have some capable guys even with Wood out. That front 7 desperately needs an infusion of talent with Washington & Lawson not living up to expectations and pretty much Hughes being their only true solid player that is not ancient (no offense Kyle Williams haha).

Yeah, the DL is much more in need of talent infusion.

[MC Hamburg]

10 hours ago, offyourocker said:

Totally agree.  Nevermind the fact we would have a known quantity vs. a total shot incthe dark when it comes to drafting QB.  We need allcthos picks.  Get Cousins then draft DL and LB with first 2 picks.  Get guard and wr in second round.  Resign Gaines in free agency and then Kyle to 1 year.  

QB is the position we have been overlooking since Kelly (usually obtaining a sub-par QB..then drafting a running back/pass rusher/nose guard )...We need our guy!!!...If McBean thinks they have the right guy... then lets do this!!!!!   You can always move free agents in/out like the Patriots have done for years and proven works ( if you're a smart talent evaluator ) which after the players they added last year Poyer, Gaines, Hyde etc...seems like we will be ok. QB is #1 overall in this current football culture...then you build your team around him!

Im all fired up over this...come at me foos!

[8-8 Forever?]

21 hours ago, offyourocker said:

Totally agree.  Nevermind the fact we would have a known quantity vs. a total shot incthe dark when it comes to drafting QB.  We need allcthos picks.  Get Cousins then draft DL and LB with first 2 picks.  Get guard and wr in second round.  Resign Gaines in free agency and then Kyle to 1 year.  

you'd have to gut the roster to sign Cousins, then you are Indy.  Nah, keep all the picks, cut TT get whoever drops to 21 and go from there.  Start Nate the skate next year until the kid is ready to go.   Hell, f ing Nick Foles was SB MVP bc he had a great roster around him.   Bortles was in the conf title game.  why?  bc he had a great roster around him. 

 

Indy sucks bc all their $$ are tied up in one injured guy.   Trust the process.  They won't fall in love with one guy and over spend for him.   It's just not what they do.  They'll keep their picks and their $$ and build the roster like they have so far.  Its a team game.  Bills still a couple years away from contending.    

[aristocrat]

9 minutes ago, 8-8 Forever? said:

you'd have to gut the roster to sign Cousins, then you are Indy.  Nah, keep all the picks, cut TT get whoever drops to 21 and go from there.  Start Nate the skate next year until the kid is ready to go.   Hell, f ing Nick Foles was SB MVP bc he had a great roster around him.   Bortles was in the conf title game.  why?  bc he had a great roster around him. 

 

Indy sucks bc all their $$ are tied up in one injured guy.   Trust the process.  They won't fall in love with one guy and over spend for him.   It's just not what they do.  They'll keep their picks and their $$ and build the roster like they have so far.  Its a team game.  Bills still a couple years away from contending.    

Glad you aren’t gm. Eventually you gotta pay your guy