If Darnold doesn’t go #1

[RochesterRob]

5 hours ago, KingRex said:

It makes far more sense to this football fan for the Bills to follow the Pitts model they used to build a team and then go after a QB (who turned out to be Big Ben to win an SB.  Look, we have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL and now having to find a stud center, it seems even more obvious to  use the 2- 1st rounders and 2 nd rounders to rebuild this TEAM rather than invest all resources to put a formula 1 engine in our VW bug team.

 

Trading up for the next Andrew Luck (or worse the next Ryan Leaf) would be a disaster for this team.

  We can't get a dozen ordinary joe's to agree on a consensus top QB and yet the Bills are suppose to vault to number to take somebody that clearly has drawbacks as well as positives?  I am hoping when it comes to personal decisions that the wives hold the checkbook for these genius keyboard GM's.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  We can't get a dozen ordinary joe's to agree on a consensus top QB and yet the Bills are suppose to vault to number to take somebody that clearly has drawbacks as well as positives?  I am hoping when it comes to personal decisions that the wives hold the checkbook for these genius keyboard GM's.

 

Difficulty agreeing on a consensus #1 isn't uncommon.

 

Your logic is comply faulty.

You are using an unfounded basis to come to the conclusion that all 3 top QBs are bad because people cannot agree on which one is best.

 

That's like saying that "because we can't decide if Brady, Manning, or Montana is the GOAT, then all three must not be very good at all"

 

The lack of consensus between which of the 3 (Mayfield, Rosen, darnold) is the "best pick" does not inherently mean that none of the 3 are good, it means they are all viewed as equal (in different ways) as great QB draft picks.

 

Listen, all 3 could suck, all 3 could be elite, who knows.

 

My point is, your "logic" that none are good/worth it because nobody can decide who the best one is, is completely faulty.

[Mat68]

Yes, I would go hard for Darnold or Rosen.  Probably for Mayfiled or Allen too.

[RochesterRob]

34 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Difficulty agreeing on a consensus #1 isn't uncommon.

 

Your logic is comply faulty.

You are using an unfounded basis to come to the conclusion that all 3 top QBs are bad because people cannot agree on which one is best.

 

That's like saying that "because we can't decide if Brady, Manning, or Montana is the GOAT, then all three must not be very good at all"

 

The lack of consensus between which of the 3 (Mayfield, Rosen, darnold) is the "best pick" does not inherently mean that none of the 3 are good, it means they are all viewed as equal (in different ways) as great QB draft picks.

 

Listen, all 3 could suck, all 3 could be elite, who knows.

 

My point is, your "logic" that none are good/worth it because nobody can decide who the best one is, is completely faulty.

  My logic is no more or less faulty than anyone else's here.  I believe drafting high for need does not help the team long term if a much better (graded) prospect at another  position is left for another team.  Barkley who is a running back seems to carry a higher degree of respect versus any of the top 3 QB's and with Shady most likely not having many years left would fit the needs of the Bills just as much as any of the QB's.  Guys here complain about reaching and reaching for a QB can be just as bad as reaching for any position.  The Ravens back in 2000 won with a game manager QB along with a powerful running game along with a stiff defense.  The Ravens would most likely have missed that window for a SB if they had reached for a QB versus taking the best player regardless of position.

[Chuck Wagon]

Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see the Browns go outside of QB #1 overall, IF they've evaluated Rosen - Darnold - Mayfield (or even Allen) to the point they'd be happy with any of them.  There's a tiny bit of logic in saying "we are happy with any of these QBs, lets make sure we get Barkley / Chubb / Fitzpatrick, whoever it is at #1 and take whoever is left at 4".

 

I still think Indy is the pivot point on a QB trade and it depends on them being sold on a top 6-7 guy or wanting more depth.  Us trading #21 / #22 / #96 (philly third rounder) / 2019 1st is roughly the same value as Denver or NYJ trading # 6 / #7 their 2019 1st.  If we can give up that package (basically 3 1st and a 3rd, though the last 3rd) and walk out with one of Darnold or Rosen and still have 2 picks on day 2, I do it without hesitation.  That gets our QB, hopefully two more starters in the 2nd and we are just out 1 pick next year.

[OldTimer1960]

I know that Darnold is considered a very good prospect, but his 13 interceptions and 11 fumbles this year would make me think very hard before I would be willing to trade what it would take to get high enough in the draft to get him.  That is an awful lot of turnovers in one season...

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, Estro said:

I think Darnold is and will be the apple of the Bills brass eye.  I think the murmurs you've heard recently of the Bills liking Rosen are smoke that is being put out intentionally.  Rosen's durability issues and his lack of pocket presence are concerns I don't see the Bills selling the farm to go get.  Darnold, OTOH, I think he's a future top tier QB in the NFL.  I think the sweet spot for the Bills to trade up is in the #2-#7 spots.  If, and I think it's a huge if, the Browns pass on Darnold I'd expect the Bills to being working the lines hard.  With all of the other teams that need a QB, and my view of Darnold as the best QB, I think it's going to be tough to leapfrog so many teams that might be also looking to trade up.  

 

In the end I think the Browns will select Darnold #1, which to me ends the possibility of the Bills making a huge move up in the draft.  As for Baker Mayfield.....not  a fan.  

Rosen worries me with his concussions as he needed to sit out the Cactus Bowl because he sustained two so close together in 2017. There are only so many concussions a person can sustain before their NFL career is over. The kid also had shoulder surgery his sophomore season in which he only played five games and missed the rest of the season. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months and how the scouts evaluate the QBs with so many teams QB needy and so many QBs in this draft that could be picked in the first round. The future for Bills fans could be very bright indeed if this new GM, scouting staff know their stuff. 

 

Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, Rudolph, and possibly Jackson. While the #1 Browns, #2 Giants, (even the #3 Colts if Luck's shoulder is still in question) #5 Broncos, #6 NY Jets, (#11 Miami if a top QB is still there they like)#15 Arizona, #21 Buffalo.  A possible Six first round QBs and six teams or more with a strong need. 

[SouthNYfan]

14 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  My logic is no more or less faulty than anyone else's here.  I believe drafting high for need does not help the team long term if a much better (graded) prospect at another  position is left for another team.  Barkley who is a running back seems to carry a higher degree of respect versus any of the top 3 QB's and with Shady most likely not having many years left would fit the needs of the Bills just as much as any of the QB's.  Guys here complain about reaching and reaching for a QB can be just as bad as reaching for any position.  The Ravens back in 2000 won with a game manager QB along with a powerful running game along with a stiff defense.  The Ravens would most likely have missed that window for a SB if they had reached for a QB versus taking the best player regardless of position.

 

Your logic which you are describing has absolutely nothing to do with what I was referring you.

 

You implied that because nobody can decide which of the three between Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold is a consensus "best" then none will be good at all.

That's just completely faulty logic.

 

Drafting BPA is only good sometimes.

Barkley looks to be a stud RB, I think he's going to have a good career.

He could be the best running back in a decade.

He's still not as valuable as an elite franchise QB.

He's still not as valuable as a very good QB either.

This is a QB driven league, and the impact of anybody else on the team in today's game isn't anywhere close at any other position.

I'm not sure what you are referring to work the 2000 Ravens, or what that has to do with this discussion.

That was almost 2 decades ago.

The game has changed and evolved.

It's no longer a "grind it out, manage the game" league.

Rule changes have shifted the needle wayyyyyy towards the offensive side of the ball, specifically to the passing game.

You still need a balanced team to win in the league, but you aren't going to win with a stout defense, running game, and subpar QB anymore.

If you reach for a QB and hit, it will change your franchise for a decade in the right direction.

A very good franchise QB automatically puts you into Superbowl contention.

An elite defense and running game with QB question marks (see: Jax and Minny) still leaves you as a "well if they get a QB then we can talk about them contending every year)

Edited February 10, 2018 by SouthNYfan

[Just Joshin']

10 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

I support the trade up for any of the big 3 

Who are your big 3?  If Allen is in that group, no thanks. Mayfield then yes.

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, Dalton said:

Who are your big 3?  If Allen is in that group, no thanks. Mayfield then yes.

 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield.  

[HumbleAndHungry]

I think we should follow the same blueprint as Philadelphia when they got Carson Wentz. Rosen and Darnold are both potentially franchise -changing quarterbacks.  I would make the trade to number two right now with the Giants. That way you're guaranteed one of the two. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Finkle Is Einhorn

[sven233]

Whatever it takes......picks or players......

 

Just get me one of Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield.

 

I'll find a way to fill in around them.  Just take the swing on one of these QBs.

[oldmanfan]

If we get Darnold, within two games some will be yelling about his propensity for throwing picks and will ask why we got rid of Taylor

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

43 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, Rudolph, and possibly Jackson. While the #1 Browns, #2 Giants, (even the #3 Colts if Luck's shoulder is still in question) #5 Broncos, #6 NY Jets, (#11 Miami if a top QB is still there they like)#15 Arizona, #21 Buffalo.  A possible Six first round QBs and six teams or more with a strong need. 

 

And then you have Pittsburgh and the LA Chargers who could draft a QB earlier to groom under Big Ben or Rivers.

[RochesterRob]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

If we get Darnold, within two games some will be yelling about his propensity for throwing picks and will ask why we got rid of Taylor

  We all know that is true.  The same guys hollering today we need to reach for a QB will be the same ones to run Beane out of town in 2 years when that plan back fires.  I am willing to bet that Beane likes his 7 figure per year job too much to play riverboat gambler.

[1st&ten]

8 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Rosen best of the bunch.  Best high school QB in the country coming out.  Best pro style QB in the draft since Andrew Luck.  Too bad he acts so entitled.  I don't think he's a McBeane type of guy unfortunately but he will surely mature.  He's only 20 yrs old.  Who didn't think they knew it all at that age?  I still think I know it all 

 

I believe Rosen said at one time he didn't want to play for the Browns. I wonder how he feels about the Bills ?

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, 1st&ten said:

 

I believe Rosen said at one time he didn't want to play for the Browns. I wonder how he feels about the Bills ?

Probably the same.  I think he would be most happy in NY even if he has to back up Eli for 2 yrs.  Big city, good receivers.  Otherwise i doubt he makes it past Denver or NYJ at 5 and 6.  Jim Kelly didn't want to come here either but he was a PA guy who liked hunting and fishing and he met a girl and now he's here for life.  Rosen is a rich kid from the beach in LA.  Besides Cleveland, i think Buffalo would be his worst nightmare

[RochesterRob]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And then you have Pittsburgh and the LA Chargers who could draft a QB earlier to groom under Big Ben or Rivers.

  I agree.  There easily could be a dozen teams interested in this spring's prospects at QB.  If they are good enough to win a SB for Buffalo as some here imply then they must be good enough for other teams as well.  Also, that QB's are going to play at a highly productive level going into their 40's is wishful thinking and not much more.

[ndirish1978]

9 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

 

Its 3 1st’s and a 4th, not a 2nd. But to move up to #2 it will cost a lot, but if he’s their guy, and he’s there, I think they should go for it. 

 

You're working off of an old trade value chart. If we're including Glenn in the trade we shouldn't need 3 1st rd picks. 

14 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

 

I believe Rosen said at one time he didn't want to play for the Browns. I wonder how he feels about the Bills ?

 

I think that kid has all the talent in the world and I also think he's going to have a short career due to injury.

[KDIGGZ]

Additionally, I would not put it past Rosen to tank his interview with the Browns and Bills in hopes that he will go elsewhere.  He seems like a prick like that.  That's probably why Bills are in favor of Darnold.  You would really have to talk yourself out of Rosen to choose anyone else imo.  Or have him talk you out of it instead!