If Darnold doesn’t go #1

[1billsfan]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think that they may have to trade up ahead of Arizona to get the guy that they like best among the guys left, assuming Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield are out of reach.

 

Every one of Rudolph’s games that I’ve watched leaves me wondering why the draft media thinks he will be available at pick 21.  He isn’t fast but I was impressed with each game I’ve watched.

 

I think the Bills won't draft Mason Rudolf because they already have a QB who seems close to him in talent in Peterman.

 

Assuming that Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield are all gone top 6 (who knows, they may not even like them), I think that the Bills will target getting Allen or Jackson. Two QBs who have rare talents, could fall to their picks, or could be there to trade up a few spots (maybe using their 3rd rd pick or next year's 2nd) if they were concerned a team behind them would trade into Detroit's spot ahead of the Bills to take a QB. 

 

Then, I think they just keep Taylor as the bridge QB.

 

[OldTimer1960]

3 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

I think the Bills won't draft Mason Rudolf because they already have a QB who seems close to him in talent in Peterman.

 

Assuming that Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield are all gone top 6 (who knows, they may not even like them), I think that the Bills will target getting Allen or Jackson. Two QBs who have rare talents, could fall to their picks, or could be there to trade up a few spots (maybe using their 3rd rd pick or next year's 2nd) if they were concerned a team behind them would trade into Detroit's spot ahead of the Bills to take a QB. 

 

Then, I think they just keep Taylor as the bridge QB.

 

I am not one who thinks that Peterman’s disastrous game against the Chargers forever defines him, but I don’t think his presence on the roster impacts the Bills’ draft plans at all.  Additionally, I think that Rudolph is a considerably better prospect.

 

i do think though that they might prefer Jackson or Allen if they are within reasonable range.

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think the Bills will trade up anyplace near the top.   I don't see them burning a boatload of draft picks for one player.

 

They might trade up into the 11-13 range if a QB they really like is hanging around.    

Now, that's the kind of in-depth analysis we've been missing around here!.  

You scoff if you want to professor science. I say maybe there is something to omens and stuff!

 

Why we always got to have people with the goofy names?  It's like they are ready made punchlines. We have it hard enough being Bills fans.

 

But no. We get Mike "Mularkey". We just had to get a Mularkey. 

 

And of everybody, they just had to have "Lossman"

 

And Chan Gailey. I don't which was worse, "Chan" or "Gailey"

 

Then Doug "Boney" Marroney. He did some boning alright. 4 million bucks worth.

 

Then E. Manuel. What, they found that kid in a manger?  With "Buddy Nix" as a wise man.

 

Buddy is a strange name for a 70 year old man. And that isn't even considering the "Nix". As in nix the idea of this guy as our GM.

 

Now we got a "Beane". 

 

So here comes the QB crop and we have Sam Darnold which is maybe not as bad as Lossman but it isn't good either.

 

Or "Baker Mayfield". Who names their kid "Baker"? I never heard of a kid being named Baker. And Baker Mayfield sounds like a cupcake company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[1billsfan]

57 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I am not one who thinks that Peterman’s disastrous game against the Chargers forever defines him, but I don’t think his presence on the roster impacts the Bills’ draft plans at all.  Additionally, I think that Rudolph is a considerably better prospect.

 

i do think though that they might prefer Jackson or Allen if they are within reasonable range.

 

From what I've read, Peterman came from a pro style offense showing the ability to throw into tight windows. While Rudolf is coming from a system offense where he was regularly throwing to wide open receivers. Then throw in that Peterman already has a year of NFL game experience and the coaches know him very well, I just don't see the purpose of drafting an average guy like Rudolph. I think they go after a QB in the draft with a very high ceiling and if that doesn't happen, they'll likely give Philly an offer they can't refuse for Foles.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by 1billsfan

[Nihilarian]

8 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

It has been talked about time and time again that their record was almost entirely due to QB play.

 

Why would he give a crap if a team had a bad record mostly due to crap QB play, when he is the possible incoming QB of said team?

 

 

The Jets are an up and coming team, with a coach who got performance nobody expected.

They are on the early stages of a rebuild, have jettisoned almost all of their baggage players, and have cap space and assets with a high pick this year.

Their front office seems to be on the upswing as well.

They are a very serious contender for cousins as well.

 

1

In regards to Denver, they fired a good OC in Mike McCoy during last season only to replace him with their QB coach who IMO is not an upgrade in OC Bill Musgrave. I've read that it had more to do with who was picking the QBs over who was calling the offensive plays.    The QB's on their roster do stink and they even went back to QB Brock Osweiler who went 0-4.  

Denver HC Vance Joesph was on very thin ice at the end of last season and should the team start out poorly again this season I suspect he will be fired and replaced during the season. My take is the only reason he still has a job is that Elway knows he screwed him with bad QB's. My take is Denver will offer Cousins the most and sign him...and they will still not take that division in 2018. That coaching staff will hold them back unless some things change.

 

I think both Denver, Jets will be replacing their head coaches after this upcoming season no matter who their respective QB is going to be, They both fielded bad 5-11 teams in 2017 and I doubt that will change much. The Jets were also 5-11 in 2016, as they have a bad defense and offense and from what I see a bad coaching staff too. 

 

 

 

Yes, Buffalo has a lot of work this to do this offseason to improve their roster.  The Bills just squeaked by in getting into the playoffs last season with a 9-7 record. They needed help from the Bengals beating the Ravens on a last-second miracle play. Still, they showed well in that Jacksonville playoff game! They showed that they really were only a better QB away from beating the Jags and moving on. 

 

I think with an upgrade now at offensive coordinator in Buffalo* and an upgrade at the QB position this team will contend for the AFC East division this season.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

I know it's not popular, but I think Mayfield is the most sure thing at QB in this draft if he's in with the right team and coach culturally... and I think that's Sean McDermott and the Buffalo Bills

[SouthNYfan]

7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

In regards to Denver, they fired a good OC in Mike McCoy during last season only to replace him with their QB coach who IMO is not an upgrade in OC Bill Musgrave. I've read that it had more to do with who was picking the QBs over who was calling the offensive plays.    The QB's on their roster do stink and they even went back to QB Brock Osweiler who went 0-4.  

Denver HC Vance Joesph was on very thin ice at the end of last season and should the team start out poorly again this season I suspect he will be fired and replaced during the season. My take is the only reason he still has a job is that Elway knows he screwed him with bad QB's. My take is Denver will offer Cousins the most and sign him...and they will still not take that division in 2018. That coaching staff will hold them back unless some things change.

 

I think both Denver, Jets will be replacing their head coaches after this upcoming season no matter who their respective QB is going to be, They both fielded bad 5-11 teams in 2017 and I doubt that will change much. The Jets were also 5-11 in 2016, as they have a bad defense and offense and from what I see a bad coaching staff too. 

 

 

 

Yes, Buffalo has a lot of work this to do this offseason to improve their roster.  The Bills just squeaked by in getting into the playoffs last season with a 9-7 record. They needed help from the Bengals beating the Ravens on a last-second miracle play. Still, they showed well in that Jacksonville playoff game! They showed that they really were only a better QB away from beating the Jags and moving on. 

 

I think with an upgrade now at offensive coordinator in Buffalo* and an upgrade at the QB position this team will contend for the AFC East division this season.

 

 

 

Jets coach signed a 2 year extension.

They were considered to be the worst team, some picked to go 0-16.

They greatly over exceeded expectations.

Bowles is a solid head coach.

 

I agree that Vance Joseph might be in over his head as a coach.

Musgrave is fine.

 

AFC West is gonna be tough with KC and gruden at oak.

Jets would be an easier playoff path for Kirk, especially if BB and TB retire soon.

The fact that you think bowles is a bad coach is very confusing though.

[Shaw66]

13 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

You scoff if you want to professor science. I say maybe there is something to omens and stuff!

 

Why we always got to have people with the goofy names?  It's like they are ready made punchlines. We have it hard enough being Bills fans.

 

But no. We get Mike "Mularkey". We just had to get a Mularkey. 

 

And of everybody, they just had to have "Lossman"

 

And Chan Gailey. I don't which was worse, "Chan" or "Gailey"

 

Then Doug "Boney" Marroney. He did some boning alright. 4 million bucks worth.

 

Then E. Manuel. What, they found that kid in a manger?  With "Buddy Nix" as a wise man.

 

Buddy is a strange name for a 70 year old man. And that isn't even considering the "Nix". As in nix the idea of this guy as our GM.

 

Now we got a "Beane". 

 

So here comes the QB crop and we have Sam Darnold which is maybe not as bad as Lossman but it isn't good either.

 

Or "Baker Mayfield". Who names their kid "Baker"? I never heard of a kid being named Baker. And Baker Mayfield sounds like a cupcake company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you ever see a QB who bled so?  It seemed like opponents drew blood all the time. 

[nucci]

On 2/10/2018 at 12:12 AM, PIP said:

I think we should have tanked big time

Most losers do

[PrimeTime101]

14 hours ago, nucci said:

Most losers do

This is so right and so wrong at the same time.. I don't know if I have the words but here it goes.

 

Benefits of Tanking

the only time you tank in the NFL is if your 10000% sure that QB you need at the #1 spot is 10000000% a prodigy and in stone your future you do it. I don't think anyone thinks for sure that who is there right now will do great. BUT there are some examples of why I would tank.

1. Andrew Luck   If an Andrew Luck was there then yes.

2. Eli Manning. same thing.

BUT again BUT.. these are rare cases and this would not of been it.

There is a lot to day for a teams mental frame of mind when you go 0-16.

 

What happens trade to top 5

Well a few things.

Yes you get your guy but at what expense?

You leave lots of holes on your team.

IF QB doesn't work out then you left lots of draft picks on the table for what? Does a GM want to put his REP on the line for that? usually that answer is no.

So now you have your QB but your offensive line cant block because of holes on team and QB gets head knocked off his shoulders. What then?

 

In short you can make a sarcastic post like this and be so right and yet so wrong. There are pro's and con's on everything you do in decisions made as a team, organization/gm.

 

 I don't want to be in there shoes.

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by PrimeTime101

[Nihilarian]

15 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

Jets coach signed a 2 year extension.

They were considered to be the worst team, some picked to go 0-16.

They greatly over exceeded expectations.

Bowles is a solid head coach.

 

I agree that Vance Joseph might be in over his head as a coach.

Musgrave is fine.

 

AFC West is gonna be tough with KC and gruden at oak.

Jets would be an easier playoff path for Kirk, especially if BB and TB retire soon.

The fact that you think bowles is a bad coach is very confusing though.

Jeez, just take a look at Bowles last two seasons as Jets HC after starting out 10-6 in 2015 with Fitzpatrick at QB who threw for almost four thousand yards and with a defense, a top 10 unit it looked like the guy might do okay as HC in the NFL.

 

Now looking at his last two seasons of 5-11, Fitz went 3-8 and that Jets defense was 28th in points allowed in 2016. This year the Jets changed OCs away from Chan Gailey and went with ex 49er WR coach John Morton who is clearly worse.

The 2017 Jets were 28th on offense with McCown who played pretty well on a bad team that had a poor run game. That defense that was so good in his first season was 22nd in points allowed, 25 in yards allowed and 25th overall. 

 

Bowels is a defensive minded coach who was the Arizona DC for two years before getting the Jets HCing job. With John Morton as OC, a bad run game, a bad defense...Kirk Cousins isn't going to save his job for him. That is if Cousins is foolish enough to sign there.

 

Musgrave hired by Denver in 2017 to be the QB coach he was elevated to OC after Mike McCoy was fired during the season. Denver won two games with him as OC against the Jets and Colts. My take is Mike McCoy is a much better OC than Musgrave. However, we will see this season. 

 

The simple fact is I just don't see your points and you don't see mine. This will be my last post in conversation over this.

[Nihilarian]

12 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

This is so right and so wrong at the same time.. I don't know if I have the words but here it goes.

 

Benefits of Tanking

the only time you tank in the NFL is if your 10000% sure that QB you need at the #1 spot is 10000000% a prodigy and in stone your future you do it. I don't think anyone thinks for sure that who is there right now will do great. BUT there are some examples of why I would tank.

1. Andrew Luck   If an Andrew Luck was there then yes.

2. Eli Manning. same thing.

BUT again BUT.. these are rare cases and this would not of been it.

There is a lot to day for a teams mental frame of mind when you go 0-16.

 

What happens trade to top 5

Well a few things.

Yes you get your guy but at what expense?

You leave lots of holes on your team.

IF QB doesn't work out then you left lots of draft picks on the table for what? Does a GM want to put his REP on the line for that? usually that answer is no.

So now you have your QB but your offensive line cant block because of holes on team and QB gets head knocked off his shoulders. What then?

 

In short you can make a sarcastic post like this and be so right and yet so wrong. There are pro's and con's on everything you do in decisions made as a team, organization/gm.

 

 I don't want to be in there shoes.

 

 

 

The simple fact that most teams didn't see the difference between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf is the one and the only reason to never tank.

 

Andrew Luck is a once in a decade player and might be the only exception. But then Carolina, Buffalo was in perfect position to draft either Cam Newton or Andrew Luck in the 2011 NFL draft and Luck decided to stay in College for his senior year. Neither team tanked that season as it was just the way things go. 

 

If you have a quality GM and scouting, staff the team should never tank as you will find talent in every round. Conversely, if you have a bad GM, scouting staff you are Cleveland and have had 26 QBs since the Patriots have had Tom Brady starting. Just think the Browns picked QB Spergon Wynn in the 6th round before Tom Brady...and he never lets them forget it. 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I watched Darnold and I can see what people like about him with size athleticism and durability. Unfortunately he is a turnover machine and when they played UCLA Rosen made him his B#$ch. He definitely has potential, I don't think he is ready to start day one therefore I don't wanna mortgage the house on him.

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/9/2018 at 9:02 PM, Dkollidas said:

If Cleveland doesnt take the USC QB #1 overall, Is it pretty much guaranteed McDermott & Beane try to move Heaven & Earth in order to get Darnold?

 

Could see a deal directly with the Giants... #21, #22, 2019 1st Round Pick, 2019 4th Round Pick & OT- Cordy Glenn for #2.

 

Or could we see two deals? Trade to say, #7 with Tampa (#21 & 2019 1st Round Pick), and then Trade #7 plus Glenn plus #22 for #2?

 

Regardless, I just think they have been rumored to really like Darnold. If Cleveland takes a different guy, I could see the Bills making the move for Darnold.

 

If Darnold is taken #1? I honestly see them staying put and taking Rudolph. 

 

My bold predictions:  

1. No QB will go #1.  Cleveland will take Barkley, then draft ALLEN at #4.  They could go Allen at 1, but I think they are confident he lasts to 4, but Barkley very well might not with NYG and Indy at 2 and 3.
2. Someone will trade up to 2 or 3 and take one of the other QB's, likely Rosen.
3. Denver or Jets will now be eyeing Darnold potentially at 5 and 6.  I think one of them might sign Cousins, lets assume one of them do and its Denver.  
4. Jets land Darnold.
5. AZ ends up taking Lamar Jackson.
6. Baker Mayfield slips to the Bills at 21. 
7. We take Payne at 22 (or possibly Vita or Evans)
8. Bills take Washington and someone on the OL in the 2nd after Washington slides over his size. 
9. Bills add RB compliment and possible future starter in Penny.
10. 4th rounders are BPA in the areas of LB, OL, DB, DE, WR. (to me its pointless to try and predict 4th round on, even more so than mocks in general lol).

Bills finish with Baker, Payne, Washington, OL help, Penny, and some depth adds across our holes.  

Edited February 13, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My predictions:  

1. No QB will go #1.  Cleveland will take Barkley, then draft ALLEN at #4.  They could go Allen at 1, but I think they are confident he lasts to 4, but Barkley very well might not with NYG and Indy at 2 and 3.
2. Someone will trade up to 2 or 3 and take one of the other QB's, likely Rosen.
3. Denver or Jets will now be eyeing Darnold potentially at 5 and 6.  I think one of them might sign Cousins, lets assume one of them do and its Denver.  
4. Jets land Darnold.
5. AZ ends up taking Lamar Jackson.
6. Baker Mayfield slips to the Bills at 21. 
7. We take Payne at 22 (or possibly Vita or Evans)
8. Bills take Washington and someone on the OL in the 2nd after Washington slides over his size. 
9. Bills add RB compliment and possible future starter in Penny.
10. 4th rounders are BPA in the areas of LB, OL, DB, DE, WR. (to me its pointless to try and predict 4th round on, even more so than mocks in general lol).

Bills finish with Baker, Washington, OL help, Penny, and some depth adds across our holes.  

If the help is Center James Daniels from Iowa this would be a very good draft indeed. 

[auburnbillsbacker]

If you suck you have the advantage of simply staying put and drafting a franchise QB.  If you are decent but lack a franchise QB you have trade boatloads of picks to move up.  It doesn't seem fair.  As bad as our reputation is, we have had zero top 2 picks since 1986.  I top 3 and 1 top 4.  We are bad at being bad.  

[Alphadawg7]

27 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

If the help is Center James Daniels from Iowa this would be a very good draft indeed. 

 

Im not up to speed enough on this years OL crop outside the couple that are expected to go in round 1, so wasn't sure who to target there other than I would expect at some point we certainly address our woeful pass protection.  So will assume this kid is good based on your recommendation

Edited February 13, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/9/2018 at 10:07 PM, PIZ said:

What about Rosen?  I'm starting to think he's the target.

I thought everyone is saying NYG want Rosen. I think Rosen fails in the NFL. I think if the Browns take Mayfield or Allen, then I see JR in NY.  Then you move earth & mountains with Indy to get Darnold. Darnold is the prize......always has been always will be.......

[JohnC]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:23 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

I know it's not popular, but I think Mayfield is the most sure thing at QB in this draft if he's in with the right team and coach culturally... and I think that's Sean McDermott and the Buffalo Bills

There are many people who believe that Mayfield is the best qb in this draft. Not necessarily a plurality but a good number. And that number is growing. Before the season started people would have said that you were crazy if you made that claim. After the season you would be deemed to be  sane but still odd because of your idiosyncratic behavior. 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im not up to speed enough on this years OL crop outside the couple that are expected to go in round 1, so wasn't sure who to target there other than I would expect at some point we certainly address are woeful pass protection.  So will assume this kid is good based on your recommendation

TY.... Just rewatched the Iowa/Ohio St. game and two other games for each and I must be missing something because he seems much stronger and willing to get more physical than Billy Price.  Maybe his pass protection is weak; don't know.But I'm not a scout, although my Son is a high school recruiter(NC. State) which means nothing. We all have eyes and opinions. Need to nail this draft Mr. GM !!!!!

Edited February 13, 2018 by MOVALLEYRANDY

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I thought everyone is saying NYG want Rosen. I think Rosen fails in the NFL. I think if the Browns take Mayfield or Allen, then I see JR in NY.  Then you move earth & mountains with Indy to get Darnold. Darnold is the prize......always has been always will be.......

 

I dont think NYG are taking a QB.  I think they feel they can win now with the weapons coming back at WR and will look to add OL and RB help for Eli early.  I could be wrong, and certainly wouldn't be shocked if they took a QB, I just think the new regime sees enough there to get the team back on track before they start looking for a new future QB.  

 

And if Cle goes either Allen or Barkley #1, its now going to be very interesting to see what the NYG do because trading down there could be very enticing to get more draft assets if they dont plan to go QB.  I could see the Jets looking to leap the Broncos (or us or AZ too) to grab their guy assuming they haven't signed Cousins.  

My first 4 picks mock:

1. Cle - Barkely
2. Jets (NYG trade down to 6) - Rosen
3. Indy - Chubb
4. Cle - Allen
5. Broncos (signed Cousins)

Leaves Darnold and Baker there at #5 for a potential trade with Broncos for Bills or AZ.  Giants could still get a QB at 6 if they wanted, but I think they still go another direction and possibly even trade down again with Bills or AZ there.  

 

Arians loves Lamar and thinks the kid is special...so I think its not out of the question that AZ may share those feelings about Lamar and may see him as someone they can stay pat for and take without having to trade up.  Especially if he has a big offseason.

 

This is such a fun draft year, so many possibilities!!!  Impossible to predict!  There are also teams like Miami, Chargers, and even Washington that could see value in a slipping QB and draft a future guy (or in Miami's case, someone they feel is better than their own guy).  Not to mention as QB's start to slip, I could see Jax getting into a trade up scenario.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[PIZ]

52 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I thought everyone is saying NYG want Rosen. I think Rosen fails in the NFL. I think if the Browns take Mayfield or Allen, then I see JR in NY.  Then you move earth & mountains with Indy to get Darnold. Darnold is the prize......always has been always will be.......

 

Not doubting you at all on Darnold.  Would love to have him.  Realistically, what would it take for us to get the #1 pick, to guarantee you get Darnold?  If the Bills brass really believes Darnold is the top QB in the draft, and a franchise type QB, I would think they go after him with everything.  I would think we could offer:

 

1st round pick 21.

1st round pick 22.

3rd round pick.

Cordy Glenn.  (Cleveland could then trade Joe Thomas for a pick, which I've seen rumored).

Tyrod Taylor.

 

Is that enough to get the #1 pick?  Is that giving them more than enough?

[Nihilarian]

This years draft class is supposedly one of the very best in years for QBs. So why in the world would any of the top10 teams that need a QB or will very shortly need a QB not take one of the top four?

 

The NY Giants? How often can they expect to have a shot at one of the top two QBs in a draft without needing to give up the farm to get one? They would have to be seriously stupid to not select a QB in this year's draft. 

 

You can take it to the bank that the Browns, Giants, Jets, Broncos will all take a QB in this year's draft unless of course one of them signs Kirk Cousins. Shoot, both the Colts and Dolphins had serious injuries to their QB and should they want to go in a different direction then they also might go after a QB if one is still there that they like. There are possibly six QB that could be taken in the first round this year. Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson all could go in the first this year. 

 

 

On another note, let's revisit the 2012 NFL draft.

The Colts took Andrew Luck #1 overall.

For the #2 pick overall, the Redskins gave up three #1s, (a 2012 #1 pick), (a 2013 #1 pick), (a 2014 #1 pick), and a #2 in 2012 all for RG3 to the Rams 

Miami took Ryan Tannehill with the #8 pick 

Cleveland took QB Brandon Weeden with the #22 pick 

 

Denver took Brock Osweiler with the #57 pick, second round. 

 

Seattle took Russell Wilson with the #75 pick, third round. (Buffalo traded up to take TJ Graham under Nix with the 69th pick) 

 

Philadelphia took Nick Foles with the 88th pick, third round.

 

Washington took Kirk Cousins with the 102 pick in the fourth round. 

 

Arizona took Ryan Lindley with the 185 pick in the sixth round.

 

Green Bay took BJ Coleman with the 243 pick in the seventh round.

 

Indianapolis took Chandler Harnish 253 pick in the seventh round ( Mr. Irrelevant) 

 

 

Washington thought they couldn't go wrong with RG3 with all the hype he had as an even better prospect than Luck by some scouts. That Heisman trophy winning running QB never evolved into an elite pocket franchise QB. This is probably what Buffalo could face in trading up with the 21st, 22nd picks to the #2 spot this year if Darnold isn't taken #1 overall.